Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Also, I find the amount of people who even with a no grants plan that are still voting for Military and All Dice that leaves our Air Force hanging for another quarter minimum to be... alarming.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
People what to buy nice if they can't get nice stuff they get angry and will vote for the parties that will say that they will get the nice stuff and that sounds like the racist party that wants us to become isolationist Will use that so basically you're giving them free stuff to get more people to vote for there racist policies?
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I think I was insuffuiently clear when I chose the phrase "see the possilibilty" - it was a personal perception of something being within the bounds of possibility, not a statament of "this is going to happen" or even "I think this is likely".
I fucking dispise people who play dumb. It feels bad to be accused of such. Like. Genuinly hate them. Full blown rule 2 level shit. (Ok, not nearly rule 2, but def. 3/4 if I get going). Life teaches us all different lessons.
So um. Bug oof that my post made you think that about me
...As a suggestion, "This reads as fearmongering" may have the same rhetorical effect you aim for, and carry similar enough meaning without communicating the idea to other posters that I'm lying about my level of knowledge/understanding?
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I was going for "perfect is enemy of the good" - waiting for Seo might mean we miss opportunity, also, left-leaning changes are not fungable. I made a tiny effortpost about the need for Unions to protect workers from the state, as opposed to hobbling the ability for individuals to attain massive amounts of power over others by the accumulation of capital, so like. I personally am dismissing that argument in your post as based on faulty premise.
Both changes are good, and for different reasons. Can't mix and match so to speak.
Grants idealogues, mayhaps.
If you care strongly, maybe make a non grants plan that has airforce in it?
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- Location
- colombia
yep,while grants do strength the FMP,it does strenght the Market socialist party
wich for all intents and porpuses is the main buffer against initiative first and FMP
appealing to their interests is a good idea
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
1. I wasn't being specific or trying to strawman you it's just my impression of what the general anti-grant crowd believe since that does seem to be the line of thought that gets trotted out every time grants are brought up
2. we have specifically put in laws to prevent that kind of fuckery
3. The person who went on that track in discord is a bit of a troll so don't pay too much attention to them
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
I don't think it even strengthens the FMP that much. Because the FMP is specifically the "Bring back the big corporations" party, and that got pretty badly gutted when we passed a max strength Co-op bill.
I'd even argue that it'd weaken the FMP because the Market Socialists can now point to grants on cooperatives as a viable alternative to the Free Market's big corporations.
That already exists in Plan Sorry Carter without grants.
This plan takes Plan Sorry Carter as its base and makes two changes
The 5 free resources are used to change the Blue Zone Arcologies to one more mecca dice as i dont want to do that project one dice at a time and force Ithlid to write 7 more updates about a flat being build real slowly.
The other change is one less dice on the cruiser yard, we have 3 already so it is not required that it completes this turn and that frees up a die for wartime factory refits to get more Firehawks to help counter the NOD airforce.
[X] Plan Wartime Factory Refits
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City(Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice)
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4), 4 dice (60 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Superconductor Foundries, 1 die (30 Resources)
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Light Industrial Enterprise Grants, 1 die (15 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1), 3 dice (30 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Stabilizer Development, 1 die (30 Resources)
Orbital (3 dice)
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1), 3 dice (3 Fusion) (60 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Mental Healthcare Training Programs, 1 die (10 Resources)
Military (5 dice +6 Free)
-[X] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (phase 1), 1 die (25 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North (Super MARVs), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator, 1 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 1), 5 dice (75 Resources)
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyard(Dakar), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1) 0/60 1 die 20R 71%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Security Review (Bureaucracy), 3 dice
Resources Available: 615
Resources Spent: 615
Resources Remaining: 0
The 5 free resources are used to change the Blue Zone Arcologies to one more mecca dice as i dont want to do that project one dice at a time and force Ithlid to write 7 more updates about a flat being build real slowly.
The other change is one less dice on the cruiser yard, we have 3 already so it is not required that it completes this turn and that frees up a die for wartime factory refits to get more Firehawks to help counter the NOD airforce.
[X] Plan Wartime Factory Refits
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City(Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice)
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4), 4 dice (60 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Superconductor Foundries, 1 die (30 Resources)
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Light Industrial Enterprise Grants, 1 die (15 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1), 3 dice (30 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Stabilizer Development, 1 die (30 Resources)
Orbital (3 dice)
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1), 3 dice (3 Fusion) (60 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Mental Healthcare Training Programs, 1 die (10 Resources)
Military (5 dice +6 Free)
-[X] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (phase 1), 1 die (25 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North (Super MARVs), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator, 1 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 1), 5 dice (75 Resources)
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyard(Dakar), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1) 0/60 1 die 20R 71%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Security Review (Bureaucracy), 3 dice
Resources Available: 615
Resources Spent: 615
Resources Remaining: 0
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You mean all the opposition to grants is ideological. There is no mechanical, game play argument that forbids ever taking grants. For a given turn, you can weigh the RpT loss against the virtual dice gain, and decide against grants though.
Sorry man. I shouldn't have quoted you. I'll edit it out. Disingenuous is a bad word choice, as it implies more about your intent than I could possibly have knowledge of. My b.I fucking dispise people who play dumb. It feels bad to be accused of such. Like. Genuinly hate them. Full blown rule 2 level shit. (Ok, not nearly rule 2, but def. 3/4 if I get going). Life teaches us all different lessons.
So um. Bug oof that my post made you think that about me
In general I'm just frustrated with people making arugements based in pure ideology without any practical reasoning as to why a given choice is better now, or in some more extreme cases, why a given options should never be chosen because reasons.
I'm particpating in several quests were you're active poster, and I've seen enough to know you're not trying to pull some shenanigans or something. So again, sorry for leaving you feeling targeted specifically.
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"what are you talking about its not a mega-corp it's just my company of 400 people working with my other company of 400 people selling to my other company of 400 people, they're contractors not part of the company. Also on that note I really need grant money for this company that's not part of my existing company that I just started"- Totally not owner of mega-corp.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
The problem with that is that we have letters from Parliament telling us "Look, the voters want good quality housing, so you should really get to work on that." And steady progress is what is more politically acceptable, because it shows people that the Treasury is putting in steady effort. People like that more than they like sudden Shock Labor. Plus the plan is to throw our Railroad dice into the BZ Arcology once the current (and last) phase of rail reconstruction ends.
Also, we really can't afford to slow down Cruiser rollout. We've already had a major delay when we went to do other things, and the Navy's still at low confidence. And furthermore, it's not Firehawks that'll help most in the air, it's URLS and the QAAMs that come with it. The Air Force wants to move Firehawks to a greater focus on ground attack missions.
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Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Creating alternative plan because Anti-Grant people vote plans that will slow down Unions rollout in the end as a side effect:
Because we fucking need to investigate the bureaucrats.
[X] Plan Military and All Dice with Bureaucracy Review Instead Of Services
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 1 die 10 R
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 35/600 2 die 30 R 0%
-[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3) 143/300 2 dice 30R 40%
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 314/350 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 340/1200 4 dice 60 R 0%
-[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 0/200 2 dice 30R 11%
-[X] Superconductor Foundries 171/200 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 325/360 1 die 20R 96%
-[X] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1) 0/160 1 die 10R 0%
-[X] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu 0/40 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Security Review 1 die
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 55/640 2 dice 40R 0%
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5) 226/350 1 die 20R 27%
-[X] Tiberium Stabilizer Development 0/50 1 die + 1 Tib Die 30R 100%
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1) 83/350 3 dice 60R 14%
-[X] Mental Healthcare Training Programs 91/200 1 die 10R 37%
-[X] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 2 dice 20R 30%
-[X] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 1) 171/200 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-7 North) 167/210 1 die 20R 88%
-[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 151/350 2 20R 11%
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 3 dice 30R 5%
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 0/185 3 dice 60R 70%
-[X] Security Reviews(Services) DC55 2 dice + 1 service 99%
-[X] Security Review (Bureaucracy) 3 die
Because I fucking want my Unions next turn.
Because we fucking need to investigate the bureaucrats.
[X] Plan Military and All Dice with Bureaucracy Review Instead Of Services
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 1 die 10 R
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 35/600 2 die 30 R 0%
-[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3) 143/300 2 dice 30R 40%
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 314/350 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 340/1200 4 dice 60 R 0%
-[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 0/200 2 dice 30R 11%
-[X] Superconductor Foundries 171/200 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 325/360 1 die 20R 96%
-[X] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1) 0/160 1 die 10R 0%
-[X] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu 0/40 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Security Review 1 die
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 55/640 2 dice 40R 0%
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5) 226/350 1 die 20R 27%
-[X] Tiberium Stabilizer Development 0/50 1 die + 1 Tib Die 30R 100%
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1) 83/350 3 dice 60R 14%
-[X] Mental Healthcare Training Programs 91/200 1 die 10R 37%
-[X] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 2 dice 20R 30%
-[X] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 1) 171/200 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-7 North) 167/210 1 die 20R 88%
-[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 151/350 2 20R 11%
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 3 dice 30R 5%
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 0/185 3 dice 60R 70%
-[X] Security Reviews(Services) DC55 2 dice + 1 service 99%
-[X] Security Review (Bureaucracy) 3 die
Because I fucking want my Unions next turn.
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- Location
- colombia
i mean,i imagine there is a limit to how many ''400 people or less'' corporations a single person can hold,we did put all dices on law enforcement against corporations especifically to deal with that kind of shit
plus,i imagine that at such point it would force the creation of a cooperative conglomerate mondragon style (many small buisness over a same umbrella,but with the board of the conglomerate being a majority of workers)
so even if for some reason our law enforcement was blind,and such thing was exploited,it would still orders of magnitude better than classic corporations
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- Location
- Milky Way
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Yeah, our previous actions and bills passed, plus GDI's general attitude, have guaranteed that the market will pretty much always be something GDI is looking at with a microscope and full readiness to smash anyone who tries funny business with a sledgehammer.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Direct answer to your question:Can someone please explain to me why is everyone screaming at Grants, when we fucking made COOPs several turns ago which meant that no company can et bigger than 400 people without becoming a democratically controlled COOP!?!
For me at least it would be because the buisnisses being corps or coops makes little (actually: zero meaningful) difference to one of the major problems I have with Light Industrial grants.
But also on phone and too tired to put awake BeepSmile's logic-chain reasoning to comprehensible words something like:
Something hell is the firm (5%)
Something market competition + something foundations of aristoricy (95%)
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If you're genuinly curious, I think asking nicely might get you someone willing to point you to the litrature that explains their reasoning, but your post reads more to me as aggravated confused rather than curious confused, and I am 100% not up for that.
- Location
- Pennslyvania
- Pronouns
- She/They
I— it wasn't one person though. They were. Fuck.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is why I am voting for grants. If people opposing it could give me a practical reason for why grants is bad like Housing Costing us Logistics or not being cost-effective in terms of Resource to stat gain or the grants would go to the megacorp and not small businesses, then I wouldn't oppose them. But it is all ideological about how grants is bad because the private economy is bad and how the government not controlling everything is bad so I see no reason not to oppose grants and I'm fed up these irrational ideology-based arguments shutting down any reasonable discussion about grants on the Discord that I am voting for grants because that arguments against it suck enough that they are actually a reason to do grants in my books.
Especially since the QM has stated that grants will eventually provide more than they take, they won't go to megacorps, but small businesses and that they will help fill the gaps in the economy for things that the public want, but are too trivial for the government to care about.
staplesdex2
CLASSFIED
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Plan Finishing Rollouts with URLS and Spider Cotton
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
[X] Plan Finishing Rollouts with URLS and Spider Cotton
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
Can someone math check me? I think the combined hub plus inhibitor cost are a total of 9840 points. That's without MARV fleets. Its honestly not as bad as I thought, so I must be wrong.
Edit: wait, that's without any energy projects to power them. nevermind that make more sense. Probably have to double that cost at minimum.
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
Can someone math check me? I think the combined hub plus inhibitor cost are a total of 9840 points. That's without MARV fleets. Its honestly not as bad as I thought, so I must be wrong.
Edit: wait, that's without any energy projects to power them. nevermind that make more sense. Probably have to double that cost at minimum.
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We are doing Boston to get the capital goods needed for the wartime refits and we plan to complete them as soon as possible for the 1 to 2 military dice we get once the final phase is done.
I agree we should complete the cruiser yards before the end of the plan and start one with 2 dice each turn till all are done.
I disagree that they need to be done with 3 dice each as if the first two roll high the 3th dice is not needed and by doing 2 dice one turn, one more the next when needed we can save up to 3 military dice in the best case.
As it is past midnight here, I am keeping the Blue Zone Arcologies in the plan as with two changes some oppose it has no chance to win.
QAAM's will help the most in the air but Firehawks can use those as well even when most of the squadron is carrying ground attack missiles one can carry the QAAM's
And it is a single dice to get more hardware to our troops(it is mostly installing new machinery to make existing factories more efficent.
[X] Plan Sorry Carter /w Wartime Factory Refits
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2), 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City(Phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice)
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4), 4 dice (60 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Superconductor Foundries, 1 die (30 Resources)
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Light Industrial Enterprise Grants, 1 die (15 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1), 3 dice (30 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Stabilizer Development, 1 die (30 Resources)
Orbital (3 dice)
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1), 3 dice (3 Fusion) (60 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Mental Healthcare Training Programs, 1 die (10 Resources)
Military (5 dice +6 Free)
-[X] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (phase 1), 1 die (25 Resources)
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North (Super MARVs), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator, 1 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 1), 5 dice (75 Resources)
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyard(Dakar), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1) 0/60 1 die 20R 71%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Security Review (Bureaucracy), 3 dice
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There are some compelling arguments that markets themselves inherently perpetuate inequality over time, so I wouldn't dismiss people's dislike of grants out of hand.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Housing can't make arcology
Li will occasionally eat up power and capital goods, possibly logistics
All eat up labour
These are ongoing costs, not one-offs
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Grants faciltate the creation of a second competing aristoracy to the current beuracratic class.
I feel it is easier to strangle a snake than a hydra.
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I don't think the government should have controll over all things. That is nightmare. Please take more care to word your posts to acknloedge that some anti-grants posters are anti-statist also
Also, to whoever it was, there have been two grants, not one, Arts (very super awesome good grants action), and Services (practical filling in the gaps grants action). Limited scope for compunding accunlation of power. I think.... hope.
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If there was a way to provide the effects of LI grants to consumers, but have it so the (coop) operators of those means of production could not accumulate control/ownership over more capital, then I would be in favor of that.
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