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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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[X] Plan Sorry Carter

Honestly, I'm fed up with the arguments of the anti-Grants people that I am voting this just to get the grants.
 
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marids said:
The economy should be the means and tools which GDI can use to accomplish it's goals, and not a goal in of itself to pursue. Whichever means suits it's needs the best to maintain itself as a viable polity, continue it's efforts to reclaim Earth from Tiberium, and fight against Nod, should be the way chosen.
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the economy is a mean and a goal on itself

the economy is sually seen as this abstract thing no one cares,but on ground level is pretty much ''how well is trade,work and production in daily life"
ergo the well being of our population is directly tied to that of the economy (albeit is not the only factor,there are cultural,political and social aspects over wich is worth slowing down or sacrificing chunks of economict growth)

so if for the average joe is easier to buy things he wants,he gets access to food,his buisness is growing,he is hiring new workers (wich indirectly benefits others) then it fits the mandate of furthering the well being of our people

specially when most private buiness are coop models,meaning that workers life are actually impacted in benefitial manner when the economy grows as result of having a mostly equal cut of the pie of the buisness they are in

Durabys said:
Wait. I thought we did COOPs, which meant Capitalist companies cannot get over 500 employees!? Why is everyone screaming at grants? Most of the grant money would go to the COOPs in the end anyway.
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kneejerk reaction and fear of ''slippery slope''?
like aything that isnt centralized and under the government control is automatically a form of abuse seeding the ruin for our utopia or has the potential for it

at least that how it seem to be portrayed on the discord
 
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Chimeraguard said:
the Market Socialist Party, who also want Grants, but don't want them to go to the excess of the Free Market Party.
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Why are people screaming then about grants when the Market Socialists want some of that anyway. The MS are not the fucking Right-Mensheviks and the MSPD for goodness's sake, people!
 
Woltaire said:
in that case why don't we wait until the next plan to get some sweet political points with them when they propose we do it
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...because according to Illithid Grants get exponentially stronger the longer they've been going on? to the point where within a couple of plan cycles of first being implemented they will outright be giving us more in resources than they cost even though they aren't directly contributing to our budget and are purely civilian in nature? that, and they help fulfill the Civilian's need for an ever expanding array of consumer goods without us having to directly contribute several dice per turn into it.
 
[X] Plan Military and All Dice
[X] Plan Sorry Carter without grants

Very nice alternative plan for good options without Grants to mess with things.
Chimeraguard said:
HI Grants give (or well, gave) Consumer Goods as well. Not Capital Goods.
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Oh. That's very informative. Thank you for addressing that misunderstanding. That means there's basically no Grants I want. Dammit.
 
[X] Plan Military and All Dice

I'll probably alter one of the other plans to swap grants out for something else for the more sensible but not right now.

Edit: Ninja'd [X] Plan Sorry Carter without grants

patrickmm1 said:
Grants aren't capitalists taking over the industry, what they are are capitalists taking over things that are too small scale for us to probably ever get to funding; such as building cell phones, some entertainment technology, and luxury goods. that, and according to Ithillid Grants will inevitably return more resources to us than they cost per turn; that, and it's comparing 15 resources per turn to the hundreds that we are investing elsewhere ourselves, and that there is nowhere near capitalism taking over.
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And yet it still is them taking over the LI sector for the most part. As I have said before, the costs will be more than the stated 15 resources as the QM has said here and in Discord and as we saw with the Service Sector there will be hidden costs. For Services it was labour, for LCI it is likely to be CapGoods and Energy. Based on existing costs at least.

As for your argument that they'll do things we won't, our LCI sectors that we built in the YZs already do a lot of that. It's why we got the option for game dev studios and fashion houses. Because we are making it all and taking pains to provide a good deal of variety at high quality for the average person. We are even we are even doing so with environment suits in the YZs.

So yes, we are making phones, entertainment tech, fashionable clothing and such like ourselves. To claim otherwise is disingenuous.
 
marids said:
Even HI grants would at least make sense over LC given how Capital Goods seem to be constantly lacking in Supply over Demand over consumer goods of all things. That or if the next plan needs yet more Consumer goods too, then Grants for consumers goods could be done at then than now when the Demand is currently already being met on a numerical level.
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As always in a PlanQuest, the numbers don't tell the whole story with demand for Consumer Goods. Because Consumer Goods are something that casts a tremendously wide net. People might have enough say, electrical appliances, but there's already a grey market popping up for car parts because the centrally planned economy isn't providing enough of them, even though the numbers say that overall, there's a slight surplus pf ConGoods. We may have a plentiful surplus of certain types of Consumer Goods and shortages in others.

And a small surplus in Consumer Goods is more along the lines of "The shelves aren't stripped barren for days and weeks on end." But we're still in the territory of shelves being stripped pretty much the moment another shipment arrives.
 
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armentho said:
kneejerk reaction and fear of ''slippery slope''?
like aything that isnt centralized and under the government control is automatically a form of abuse seeding the ruin for our utopia or has the potential for it

at least that how it seem to be portrayed on the discord
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I am suddenly happy I do not visit said Discord channel much. I would probably lose my mind faster than I did on the VSNKh Planquest six months ago.
 
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patrickmm1 said:
...because according to Illithid Grants get exponentially stronger the longer they've been going on? to the point where within a couple of plan cycles of first being implemented they will outright be giving us more in resources than they cost even though they aren't directly contributing to our budget and are purely civilian in nature? that, and they help fulfill the Civilian's need for an ever expanding array of consumer goods without us having to directly contribute several dice per turn into it.
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esentially,ithilid said the market growth will undergo 3 phases

>small buisness of less than hundred employees phase (a drag that cost us resources)
>moderate size buisness (we are close to this,and this is where we get revenue from)
>and third phase (esentially think megacorporations and trade lines across the world) (expontial phase where benefits outmatch investment)

grants accelerate market growth making the first phase shorter

so we can get to juicy chunk we can tax off faster
 
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I'm fine with there being big companies. All we have to do is make sure they don't turn predatory and turn on the small businesses.
 
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I will not be engaging in the discussion about grants, as from what I can see, the people opposed to them are not basing their objections on the situation in-quest.

Putting in a plan that does URLS and Spider Cotton, because I want to try to push that for the delicious Agriculture-based CapGoods.

[X] Plan Finishing Rollouts with URLS and Spider Cotton
-[X] Infrastructure 5/5 65R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 2 dice 20R 51%
--[X] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3) 143/300 3 dice 45R 86%
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 80R
--[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 314/350 1 die 20R 100%
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 340/1200 4 die 60R
-[X] Light & Chemical Industry 3/4 65R
--[X] Superconductor Foundries 171/200 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 325/360 1 die 20R 96%
--[X] Light Industrial Enterprise Grants, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X]Agriculture 3/3 40R
--[X] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1) 2 dice 20R 37%
--[X] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Tiberium 5/5 110R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5) 226/350 2 dice 40R 93%
--[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 55/640 2 dice 40R
--[X] Tiberium Stabilizer Development 0/50 1 die 30R 100%
[X]Orbital 3/3 60R
--[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1) 83/350 3 dice 60R+ 14%
-[X]Services 2/4 20R
--[X] Mental Healthcare Training Programs 91/200 2 dice 20R 95%
-[X]Military 5/5+6 170R
--[X] Long Range Sensor System Deployment (Phase 1) 171/200 1 die 25R 100%
--[X] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-7 North) 167/210 1 die 20R 88%
--[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 151/350 1 dice 10R
--[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 1) 0/300 5 dice 75R 74%
--[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 0/185 3 dice 60R 70%
-[X] Bureaucracy 3/3 dice
--[X] Security Reviews Bureaucracy DC55 2+1 dice
Total:610/615R

[X] Plan Sorry Carter
Edit: vote currently cancelled, because I hope to have this do better.
 
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There is a reason why I weeks ago talked about wanting Unions combined with COOPs. Because the former will put even more democratic pressure on any predatorilly misbehaving COOP (where even the worst offender COOP would already behave less predatorilly than a classical Late Capitalist Corporation).
 
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F0lkL0re said:
It's because some people are convinced that the moment we give so much as a penny to any businesses we don't control down to the smallest detail everyone will turn into super capitalists and transform our economy into a capitalist hell hole due to the "give an inch and they'll take a mile" argument.
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I'm sorry, but I'd appreciate a touch less strawmanning. My specific words were because some people were legitimately arguing for private water, rails, and electricity, as well as private military materiel production. Due to this, I have suddenly become rahter sure that those people will do their best to take grants way fucking further than I, or I think most of us want. Thus, I don't want to risk them gaining ground.
 
Illusion of Eris said:
I'm sorry, but I'd appreciate a touch less strawmanning. My specific words were because some people were legitimately arguing for private water, rails, and electricity, as well as private military materiel production. Due to this, I have suddenly become rahter sure that those people will do their best to take grants way fucking further than I, or I think most of us want. Thus, I don't want to risk them gaining ground.
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It was one person, and he was shot down by the GM that such things wouldn't ever become options anyway.
 
Illusion of Eris said:
My specific words were because some people were legitimately arguing for private water, rails, and electricity, as well as private military materiel production.
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All Utilities and natural occurring monopolies won't get out of our hands. EVER. I will veto any plan that does that. Not just vote for another plan, but cursing up a storm about such a plan and its poster.
Chimeraguard said:
It was one person, and he was shot down by the GM that such things wouldn't ever become options anyway.
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Fucking this.

For fucks sake. Even during Boyle's Treasury, utilities and natural monopolies hadn't been made private. And that fucking bastard was Right-FMP who flirted with Proto-IF ideology.
 
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