[X]Plan Cleaning the Skies
Infrastructure
-[X]Tidal Powers Plants (Phase 2) 3 dice 30 R
-[X]Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 1 die 20 R
-[X]Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 1 die 20 R
Heavy Industry
-[X]North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 2 dice 30 R
-[X]Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Phase 2) 1 die 5 R
-[X]Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 3 dice 60 R
Light and Chemical Industry
-[X]Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4 dice 80 R
Agriculture
-[X]Vertical Farming Projects (Phase 2) 3 dice 45 R
Tiberium
-[X]Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 2 dice 40 R
-[X]Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 1 die 20 R
-[X]Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4) 3 dice 60 R
Orbital Industry
-[X]GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) 2 dice 40 R (Fusion)
-[X]Orbital Cleanup (Phase 5) 1 die 10 R (Fusion)
Services
-[X]Fashion development houses 2 dice 20 R
-[X]Domestic Animal Programs 2 die 20 R
Military
-[X]Super MARV Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 N 2 dice 40 R
-[X]Orca Refit Package Development 1 die 15 R
-[X]Laser Point Defense Systems Development 1 die 15 R
-[X]Governer Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban) 1 die 20 R
-[X]Universal Rocket Launch System Development 1 die 15 R
-[X]Quick Maneuver Air to Air Missile Development 1 die 15 R
-[X]High Efficiency Heat System Development 1 die 15 R
-[X]Tactical Airborne Laser Development 1 die 20 R
Bureaucracy
-[X]Cooperative Focus 3 dice
Cost: 655
 
[X] Plan Sister Cities and Air Power Alt Military Inhibitor
[X]Plan Energy and Enterprise
[X]Plan Two Cities, Infra-heavy, with Pets.
[X] Plan Save Some Reserve + Unions
[X] Plan Superconductor and Orca's
[X] Plan Prudent Planning Please

Didn't we say we'd get Tiberium Inhibitor Development this turn? Most of the plans I see are putting it off again.

I get it that deploying it will be energy intensive and we can't afford it. But this is for development. If we have it ready we can at least see the cost/benefit. And leaving it for another turn because of 90% success isn't a guarantee. Look at the Scrin drive from last turn, it rolled a 5 and got delayed another turn. Let's at least throw a dice at it for a good chance of finishing it, then put off deployment but have it available.
 
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[X]Plan Two Cities, Infra-heavy, with Pets.
Infrastructure: 5/5 80 R
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2) 336/450 2 dice 20R 77%
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 225/360 1 Tib die 1 Infra die 40R 77%
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 1 Tib 2 Infra dice 60R 91%
Heavy Industry: 5/5 90R
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 150/350 3 dice 60R 70%
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 64/1200 2 dice 30R
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 80R
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 61/360 4 dice 80R 68%
Agriculture: 4/3 40R
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 4 dice 40R 80%
Tiberium Dice: 5/5 110R
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4) 130/300 2 dice 40R 65%
-[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Development 0/60 1 die 30R 91%
Orbital 6/3 dice 110R
-[X] Gravitic Drive Development 20/60 1 die 30R 91%
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) 183/385 3 dice 60R 57%
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 5) 42/90 2 dice 20R 99%
Services: 4/4 40R
-[X] Fashion development houses 89/225 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 2 dice 20R 30%
Military 6/5 105R
-[X] High Efficiency Heat System Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
-[X] Prototype Plasma Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 25R 71%
-[X] Quick Maneuver Air to Air Missile Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban) 148/200 1 die 20R 79%
-[X] Laser Point Defense Systems Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
Bureaucracy: 3/3
-[X] Cooperative Focus DC 80/100/120, DC 120 3 dice 97%

Total: 655/655 R

So I came at this with two priorities-first, Mecca needs protection, second, to keep income coming in, even if we might not be sure of our capacity, and third, to do a lot of research, though not as much as a memeplan. I would love to put more effort on Governors, but I feel like we just don't have the dice and resources with all the new tech we need to push through in the near future.
 
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[X]Plan Energy and Enterprise

Didn't we say we'd get Tiberium Inhibitor Development this turn? Most of the plans I see are putting it off again.

I get it that deploying it will be energy intensive and we can't afford it. But this is for development. If we have it ready we can at least see the cost/benefit. And leaving it for another turn because of 90% success isn't a guarantee. Look at the Scrin drive from last turn, it rolled a 5 and got delayed another turn. Let's at least throw a dice at it for a good chance of finishing it, then put off deployment but have it available.
We do need to kickstart Mecca this turn. Between that, Chicago, and our omnipresent need for income there's not much room.
 
Let's at least throw a dice at it for a good chance of finishing it, then put off deployment but have it available.
In my case, its not that its energy intensive or expensive, but that it takes valuable Tiberium dice, which are required for more imminent and potentially time critical projects. After we finish the the first stage of Mecca and the Yellow Zone Harvesting Phase, I would be willing to vote for a plan that includes it.
 
MILITARY MATTERS

[ @KlavoHunter , Post 20993568]
NOD keeps on trying to figure out what the next generation of their units will be: Those Centurions seem promising, and the Barghest is more than just pesky. The artillery duels with NOD's stealthies does seem to favor the Scorp-bois to an annoying extent...

Better keep feeding the military more dice to take care of that problem while we chew up lots of YZ tib.
I agree with your general conclusion. The Centurion in particular sounds like a rather more practical and mass-producible successor to the Avatar, something that doesn't rely on inefficient shit like "ripping parts off other Nod vehicles to equip itself." Much more viable as a heavyweight counter to GDI's own heavy metal such as the Mammoth tank.

Also, holy shit but a 50 cm rocket is intimidating. For reference, a Maverick antitank missile is 30 centimeters in diameter, and those are routinely used for smashing up things a lot bigger than a tank, such as reinforced concrete bunkers. We could easily be talking about 250 kg or larger warheads. That's going to be a tough challenge for our next-generation point defense laser systems, because you really want to score a hard kill on something like that before it gets too close.

Then again, maybe that means "rockets that are six centimeters wide and fifty centimeters long," in which case that's basically an antipersonnel weapon and there's no way to upsize it beyond that.

The stealth artillery, well, it's a mix. The advantage of stealth artillery is that it's easy to get into range, set up, shoot, and scoot. The disadvantage is that for the system as designed, you have no real sustained presence and can't shoot from any one location for long. You can't even really use it to suppress an enemy position for 5-10 minutes, because enemy counterbattery will start to dial in, and your stealth self-propelled artillery pieces are too expensive to gamble with.

It's a great argument for us to hurry up and do the naval point defense refit, because I'm pretty sure an Iron Dome-like system, especially one integrating powerful lasers into the design, could counter this kind of sporadic short sharp shower of shells very effectively. They lob a volley of shells over, point defense splashes most of the incoming, and they can't keep putting metal on target until something gets through because otherwise they get flattened by overwhelming firepower and the enemy localizes them despite their stealth.

[ @TheFourthman , Post 20993871]
This really isn't surprising. We're starting to hit goals. So now the purity tests are starting.
I don't think it's even purity testing; there's genuine disagreement within the Developmentalists about "so, where do we go from here?" The 'disadvantage' of GDI no longer seeming to be scrabbling desperately in a losing battle for survival is that people who have incompatible visions but very much want to survive start to disagree with one another again.

Now this is disturbing. If expect we're going to start seeing more cyborgs then.
Gideon's special Avatar variant already used a cybernetically wired-in pilot, as I recall, so this isn't a big change. The Cyberwheels are kind of a logical extension in that they're clearly an evolution of Nod's light vehicle line (the bike/buggy stuff). The light armament and mass makes them usable by the large Nod militias, and they represent a way to 'recycle' some of the many many wounded or incapacitated personnel Nod tends to accumulate over time.

I want to see that gun. Also at some point we may have to look at shields for dealing with these alpha strike style units.
Maybe. On the other hand, this is clearly another 'light vehicle' type. Thin armor and volatility suggest that this is Stahl's attempt to pack as much firepower as possible into a low-profile platform that is cheap and able to be mass-produced, as opposed to a fancy 'starship' weapon system like the Stealth Tank or Avatar. This is in keeping with Stahl's general theme of quantity in acceptable quality.

Depending on what's loaded into the shells in that gun, it may perform adequately in frontal combat against GDI heavy armor, or it may not. Being able to overpenetrate a Guardian doesn't prove much either way unless those things are a lot more heavily armored than I usually expect an APC to be.

Ithillid said:
I was trying to be as close to telling you outright that these are bad faith accusations without directly telling you that these are bad faith accusations. Because this is Initiative First and Free Market trying to find something to leverage into being able to either 1. reserve the good housing for Blue Zone populations. or 2. Force you to hand out cash and restart the economy the way that they like.
They're bad faith, but on the other hand people genuinely do want better housing and you've told us this. So it's good electoral tactics; the lack of extra space in Blue Zone arcologies is definitely the kind of thing that someone might complain about if they're locked out of the government and want an issue they can use to gain voteshare and bargaining power in the legislature.

[ @ramdomperson , Post 20995707]
Sounds like developing high efficiency heat systems will help counter this, as will upgrading artillery and railguns.
Heat systems aren't necessarily the big deal here, because I'm pretty sure the incendiary warheads aren't that effective against tanks (could be wrong). Incendiary warheads aren't usually something you throw at tanks, usually, they're something you throw at buildings.

Of course, depending on how we read "6x50 cm..." a 50 cm rocket's blast fragmentation warheads are more than powerful enough to knock out a main battle tank on a direct hit anyway. Upgrading guns to counter the Centurion is definitely a good idea, though. Because it sounds like this is rolling out something comparable to the Avatar but more mass-producible, which means we won't be able to focus it down with massed fire from a large number of gun platforms at once.

Blatant GM signal to upgrade the air force.
Eh no, I think the Banshee-bis is the signal to do that. This is a platform within a category we already know how to counter with ground forces. Think of it as a successor to the Scorpion light tank. The real threat is that by going with large-caliber shells (the most common reason for a fixed gun mount), and accepting high volatility as the price of storing plenty of ammo, they can probably come up with shit like tiberium-enhanced munitions and pack a lot of punch onto the small platform.



SPAAACE

[ @tenchifew , Post 21001407]
Can you give me a link with some specifics?
Like distance, amperage and voltage?

Since we currently do not have any commercial wireless power transfer system, wired transfer must be more efficient even including the costs of the wires and the rest of the infrastructure like towers, but I would like to read an article or a scientific paper on the topic if you can recommend one.
Well, there's a few obvious reasons we don't have in-atmosphere wireless power transfer, even if beamed power from space is feasible.

1) Transferring large amounts of power requires large transmitter and antenna setups. Over short distances there is just no practical way for this to be economical compared to stringing a wire between Point A and Point B, because the transmitter and antenna are inherently large and bulky, or require extensive cooling, or both. Thus, over short distances, even if transmission efficiency was literally 100%, it would never make economic sense to use the system.

2) Transferring large amounts of power over long distances along the Earth's surface means the horizon is a factor; you will need repeater stations, or you will need to build one end of the system very high off the ground, further increasing the cost and regulatory burden, along with the risk of the system being taken down by a storm or something.

Combining (1) and (2), we see that beamed power arrays are unlikely to ever be cost-effective along the Earth's surface for either short distances or long.

3) Safety concerns; if you are slinging around enough microwave radiation between Point A and Point B to cook a turkey, and this radiation is parallel to the ground, there's a problem. This puts a practical limit on the amount of power that can be beamed laterally point-to-point along the Earth's surface.

4) Sabotage/disruption concerns. You are beaming power through the air, probably the air above other people's property. Stopping them from sticking an antenna up into the beam path isn't necessarily difficult, but it's a nuisance factor that further complicates the issue. Wired power transfer isn't immune to this issue, of course, but there it's easier to establish legal control over the actual line the power runs along. There is also the risk that some fucker will, I don't know, float a large microwave-reflecting balloon up into the path of your beam.

All in all, it is unsurprising that wireless power transfer has never been seriously pursued along the Earth's surface when a simpler alternative exists for all fixed applications. For mobile applications beamed power might be desirable, but any given mobile platform on Earth is either too small to carry a suitably sized antenna to pick up the microwave beam, or more than large enough that it would be better off just carrying its own engine on board.

[ @tenchifew , Post 21002919]
They had 90.4% losses over one mile in the seventies.
Note that that was for powering a mobile platform. Which means, assuming you actually want to not lose the helicopter the moment it jiggles a little out of the beam path, that you need to be giving a constant microwave path to the entire volume the helicopter occupies and all the space immediately around it. Much of your beam will predictably miss the entire helicopter.

If you are aiming at a fixed antenna that has no weight restrictions, you have rather more options on that front, and can avoid some of the inefficiency.

[ @armentho , Post 21001179]
Space is big,as "launch a needle in the middle of the ocean" chances of hitting anything big

You could fit several planet earths between mars and earth

Tho idwally the kind of body you want to seed tiberium while ensuring nothing scapes are inert moons

No magma means no liquid tiberium explosions that are unwanted
Meteor impacts happen. What if a chunk of space debris impacts the big lump of tiberium-in-space-on-inert-moon?

And gravity means no risk of particles flying away and braking off on differenr directions
Actually, quite the opposite.

In microgravity, any stray fleck of tiberium will keep going forever until it hits something- possibly thousands or millions of years from now.

This may actually already be a concern. Judging by the visuals of the blast, the Temple Prime explosion surely flung chunks of tiberium out into space. Most would have fallen back to Earth eventually, making Earth only marginally more cursed than it already was, but I'm pleasantly surprised if none hit the Moon, and it's entirely possible- even probable- that some hit interplanetary escape velocity and are now swirling around the solar system in Earth-crossing asteroid orbits. Hopefully none got enough delta-V to reach any of the other planets...
 
[X] Plan Tale of Three Cities
Infra 5/5 70R +15
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2): 336/450 3 dice R 30 R 98%
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 2 dice 40 R (see Tiberium for full details)
HI 5/5 100R +20
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 150/350 3 dice 60 R 70%
-[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (phase 1) 0/160 2 dice 40 R 47%
LCI 4/4 80R +15
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 61/360 4 dice 80 R 36%
Agri 3/3 60R +15
-[X] Entari Deployment 0/200 3 dice 60R 59%
Tiberium 5/5 + 1 dice 130R +35
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 225/360 2 Tib dice 40R 88%
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1) 0/160 1 dice (+2 infra) 20 R 92%
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4) 130/300 2 dice 40R 65%
-[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Development 0/60 1 die 30R 91%
Orbital 3/3 dice 60R +15 (6 Fusion dice)
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) 183/385 3 dice 60 R 57%
Services 0/4 0R +30
Military 5/5 +5 dice 160R +15
-[X] Orca Refit Package Development 0/40 1 die 15R 91%
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North Super MARV 0/210 3 dice 60 R 52%
-[X] Quick Maneuver Air to Air Missile Development 0/40 1 die 15 R 91%
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban): 148/200 1 die 20 R 79%
-[X] Laser Point Defense Systems Development 0/40 1 die 15 R 91%
-[X] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 45/200 3 dice 30R 87%
Bureau 3/3 +15
-[X] Cooperative Focus 3 dice

Free 6/6
660/605+60R

We've got the usual Power and Capitol Goods stuff, but I've leaned towards getting a stage in both Chicago and Mecca/Jeddah done.
Entary Deployment to get our Food income cranking.
Military dice focussed on what they are specifically saying is a priority, which in this case is laser proof Orcas with anti-air missiles.
 
[X] Plan Sister Cities and Air Power Alt Military
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Heavy Industry (5 dice)
-[X] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants, 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Phase 2), 1 die (5 Resources)
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4), 1 die (15 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (phase 3), 4 dice (80 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Entari Deployment, 3 dice (60 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 4), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Orbital (3 dice +1 Free)
-[X] Gravitic Drive Development, 1 die (30 Resources)
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3), 3 dice (3 Fusion) (60 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Fashion development houses, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Military (5 dice +5 Free)
-[X] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North (Super MARVs), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Stealth Disruptor System Development, 1 die (25 Resources)
-[X] High Efficiency Heat System Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Orca Refit Package Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Quick Maneuver Air to Air Missile Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Vladivostok), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Laser Point Defense Systems Development, 1 die (15 Resources)
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Cooperative Focus, 3 dice
 
In my case, its not that its energy intensive or expensive, but that it takes valuable Tiberium dice, which are required for more imminent and potentially time critical projects. After we finish the the first stage of Mecca and the Yellow Zone Harvesting Phase, I would be willing to vote for a plan that includes it.

If the goal is for Mecca and YZ harvesting to finish first, then there's a probability of a 2 turn delay assuming average rolls. And low rolls will delay it to 3 turns and beyond. I would suggest we pry a die away from GREED so we can get the info to plan for the inhibitor's costs before going back to GREED.
 
If the goal is for Mecca and YZ harvesting to finish first, then there's a probability of a 2 turn delay assuming average rolls. And low rolls will delay it to 3 turns and beyond. I would suggest we pry a die away from GREED so we can get the info to plan for the inhibitor's costs before going back to GREED.

Which of these do you think is greed?
-Chicago
-Mecca
-Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting

Chicago is 135 progress points for 4 abatement, it's the best deal on broad spectrum abatement points available right now thanks to the work that's already been put in. Mecca is a key cultural site that's in imminent danger of being either overrun by Tiberium on a bad roll or taken over by NOD if we stand around ignoring the locals asking for help long enough. Yellow Zone Harvesting is a terrible cash generator. Trying to finish it out quick is a response to the priority tag, the military having already started the offensives (so we need to keep up momentum or get bogged down/pushed back), the fact that it's a good abatement source, and the need to start reaching more YZ populations. That's not greed.
 
Do we have one more project for Fusion after we complete Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants or do they get folded into Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns?
 
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