Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Fireiy · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Probe Away

Void Stalker · Jun 27, 2021

Derpmind said:
Why this project? It's likely to take three or four turns to get the Purification up and the YZ Aquaponics after it; while we want this in the long term, it's gotten more expensive than other Agriculture projects, like the Perennial Aquaponics that we've been told we should start soon for more food variety.

Because it shows continued support for the Yellow Zone, so keeps GDI popularity there and undercuts NOD and should help come election time as well.

Simon_Jester · Jun 27, 2021

F0lkL0re said:
I'm hoping to get an apollo or zone suit factory done each turn until their all finished.

Personally I'm focusing on the Copenhagen yards since we specifically have problems with piracy in the Atlantic and a lot of our Blue Zones interconnect via the Atlantic Ocean. After that, yeah, Apollo factories in my book. The remaining Zone Suit factory can be done when we're good and ready; we already built five such factories and finishing the sixth isn't gonna make that much difference in the short term.

F0lkL0re said:
Whelp here's the plan now with completion probability percentages.

[] plan slight military focus

Um.

-[ ] Blue Zone Power Production Campaigns (Phase 2) 5 dice 50R 71%
(Progress 193/500: 10 Resources per die) (- Labor, +++++ Energy)
-[ ] Fusion Power Prototype 1 free die 20R 0% (Completion here is planed to be done in later turns)
(Progress 0/200: 20 Resources per Die) (+ Energy)

My main complaint here is that we still have a serious capital goods crunch, so I'd rather focus on an action like Rolling Stock that gives capital goods if we're going to do anything but monofocus on power plant construction in Heavy Industry this turn.

Agriculture
-[ ] Perennial Aquaponics Bays 2 dice 20R 8%
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (+++ food)
-[ ] Organic textiles farms 1 die 10R 88%
(Progress 80/100: 10 resources per die) (++ consumer goods, - Labor)

I have come to the view that water purification in the Yellow Zones is a better choice (it chains into the next round of Yellow Zone Aquaponics), but that's me.

Tiberium
-[ ]Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 2) 4 dice 60R 33%
(Progress 36/400: 15 resources per die) (4 points of yellow zone mitigation)
-[ ] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Phase 4) 1 die 15R 100%
(Progress 67/100: 15 resources per die) (small additional income trickle [5-10 Resources]) (1 point of yellow zone mitigation)

Personally I'd rather get the next bump of Yellow Zone mitigation from Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting, because we are trying to boost our income still...

Orbital
-[ ] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 3) 2 Fusion Dice 40R 0% (Completion here is planed to be done in later turns)
(Progress 68/390: 30 resources per die) (5 PS for completion)

I strongly suspect that we'd be doing ourselves a lot of favors by instead investing in Orbital Cleanup or Orbital Communications. The former is likely to make all kinds of space operations easier and safer (and it's self-funding so we have more resources for other things). The latter lends directly to support groundside and probably increases voter turnout in the Yellow Zones where we are, on average, relatively popular.

Services
-[ ] NOD Research Initiatives 1 die 30R 23%
(Progress 0/120 : 30 resources per die)
-[ ] Childcare and Preschool programs 2 dice 10R 25%
(Progress 0/200: 5 Resources per die) (--- Labor)
-[ ] Expand Local Public Media Operations 1 die 10R 13% (Note: Completion here requires an omake bonus)
(Progress 0/130: 10 resources per die) (Developmentalists)

As someone, I think it was @Derpmind , pointed out to me... there are very few reasons NOT to concentrate on just slamming out the preschool program this turn and starting Expand Local Public Media Operations next turn. Although I suppose you may be wary of the possibility of overcompletion and willing to spend the extra +5 resources to avoid the risk of wasting a die.

Military
-[ ] Reclamator Hubs
(Blue Zone 1-19, Yellow Zone 1-6 ABC, Red Zone 1-8, North South) (Progress 0/105: 20 resources per die) (Contributes to plan goal)
--[ ] Reclaimator Hub Red Zone 6 North 1 die 20R 23%
(Progress 0/105)
-[ ] Apollo Fighter Factories
--[ ] Valparaiso 1 die 15R 58%
(Progress 0/70: 15 resources per die) (-- Labor, --- Energy)
-[ ] Remote Weapons System Development Predator 1 die 10R 88%
(Progress 0/40: 10 Resources Per die)
-[ ] Ablat Plating Development 1 die 10R 58%
(Progress 0/70: 10 resources per die)
-[ ] Shell Plants (Phase 2) 1 die + 4 free dice 50R 81%
(Progress 31/300: 10 Resources per die) (--- power)

I have some issues with this. First, one die on a Reclamator Hub project is kind of a "worst of both worlds" scenario, because the Hub won't finish next turn and there's no realistic way we'll be able to slam out another MARV fleet that turn. Better to do two at once, or zero and then two next turn, than one per turn.

Crazycryodude said:
The shell shortage is well past a little pirate crisis and into "our spearhead units in frontline areas are carrying 20% of what they should" levels of military-ruining apocalyptic crisis.

I essentially agree- my own plan also throws many dice at it in hopes of completing it this turn. We can hope that partial completion at least mitigates the shell crisis by getting us some production lines going.

On the civilian side, doing arcologies instead of fiber optics, not sure why everybody seems to be in love with fiber optics it's the same amount of consumer goods as arcologies but the arcologies are an explicit Plan target and get us housing to start emptying out the commieblocks/house refugees in. Just because the camps are closed doesn't mean the housing situation isn't still pretty bad, a lot of the BZ residents are living crammed into emergency commieblocks.

Because arcologies are much more expensive in dice and don't provide ++Logistics. I'm hoping to build up a Logistics surplus so that we're resistant to disruption by Nod attacks or random shit happening, personally. Arcologies stages are the kind of thing you do later in a plan when you've got your ducks mostly in a row already.

Furthermore, your plan is so Resource-starved that you can only afford to activate two Infrastructure dice at all, which means at this rate we're not gonna get much done on arcologies in a timely manner.

Also I think this is the only plan I've seen proposed with all the orbital dice active. It's really not that hard to get them all going and we should really start prospecting for resources now because the probe missions take months (or years) to do their jobs, and then we need to take more months/years to set up actual mining on site, and then again it takes months/years for the raw resources to arrive back in Earth orbit. There's a very long lead time on space is my point, so even though the Enterprise Stage 3 to use all those space resources won't be done for a while we need to start the mining process now if we want to have the raw materials ready to go when Enterprise is upgraded a year or two from now.

My problem with the long lead time reasoning is that with the present military-industrial crisis we're not in a good position to invest in it. Things are likely to look better a turn or three from now when we're not so massively in the hole on shell production and have at least a little more income stream going.

I'm not opposed to launching the probes, I guess, since they're relatively cheap, though.

Void Stalker said:
Okay current thoughts- Spreading the dice around on mil to try and finish shell plants and 2 more factories along with reclamators hubs. With the energy use going 6 dice on BZ power to get that up to specs. Otherwise finishing 1 consumer good project and starting 3 more, 2 of which have a chance to finish though I don't have the resources to bump the chance to finish them higher. Childcare is there because I had 5R left over at the end. NOD research is worth throwing one dice at, also all of our services progression needed dropped thanks to that nat 100 so that helps. YZ Purification is going to help with the next level of YZ food production which should improve the YZ view of us.

Of note this is a major investment into mil this turn to get the factories we need to give us enough coverage to start swapping between factories and dev projects each turn. In addition more effort to shore up support in YZ (mitigation, starting the YZ light industrial sector and starting the YZ water facilities shows our continued support of the YZ)

I get you, but I really don't like how many Infrastructure and Services dice are being left unactivated.

Derpmind said:
Why this project? It's likely to take three or four turns to get the Purification up and the YZ Aquaponics after it; while we want this in the long term, it's gotten more expensive than other Agriculture projects, like the Perennial Aquaponics that we've been told we should start soon for more food variety.

Probably a general-principles desire to start up more Yellow Zone agriculture. I know that's motivating me right now. I'm interested to hear if more people agree with your take, though, because Agriculture is one of the areas where I don't have strong capital-V Views.

Notably, having water purification plants in the Yellow Zones makes them support GDI more even if we don't complete the next project.

Crazycryodude said:
I'm still not sold on the power concerns but if you want the logistics for Chicago I suppose that makes a bit more sense to me. I don't think we should be gunning for Chicago next turn either though, the military is deeply unsure of their ability to support any operations into the Yellow Zones and a big juicy target like Chicago sounds like it could be the bridge too far without a bunch more military production and some time to bulk out the OOB first. That's the same reason I'm doing the BZ fencing rather than YZ harvesting, bulking up the BZ perimeter doesn't require overextending into new positions just building up ones that already exist. Besides, we know that the BZ perimeter projects have synergistic effects, we should really get the remaining two phases of BZ fencing out of the way to get all the synergy bonuses and see if there's anything cool hiding behind the full set or a capstone reward or something.

Also an interesting point- I could be grudgingly talked into switching over myself... but I'd like to hear more.

Void Stalker · Jun 27, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
I get you, but I really don't like how many Infrastructure and Services dice are being left unactivated.

I have all services active, and 3 infra dice. And with 2 phase of RZ we should be at full activation next turn

Derpmind · Jun 27, 2021

Void Stalker said:
Because it shows continued support for the Yellow Zone, so keeps GDI popularity there and undercuts NOD and should help come election time as well.

Simon_Jester said:
Probably a general-principles desire to start up more Yellow Zone agriculture. I know that's motivating me right now. I'm interested to hear if more people agree with your take, though, because Agriculture is one of the areas where I don't have strong capital-V Views.

Notably, having water purification plants in the Yellow Zones makes them support GDI more even if we don't complete the next project.

More YZ agriculture is good, but more pressing is our need to make more Consumer Goods projects leading up to the election. Agriculture can be a good source of Consumer Goods, Vertical Farming in the short term and Processing + Ranching in the long term (as long as we keep having enough of a surplus for them.) But churning through YZ Purification Facilities first takes multiple turns for a project that only gives +2 Consumer Goods. Basically, we should use Agriculture for Consumer Goods to help with the election before we do more YZ farming.

Model DC.14F · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Mil, YZ and Research
[X] Plan Containment + Steady Progress

DecaffeinatedOwl · Jun 27, 2021

[]Plan Shellshock
-[]Infrastructure 3/5
--[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 2 dice 30
--[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 0/240 3 dice 60R 24%
-Heavy Industry 5/5
--[] Heavy Rolling Stock Plants 111/250 2 dice 20R 57%
--[] Kure Machine Works 0/280 3 dice 45R 9%
-Light & Chemical Industry 3/3
--[] Chemical Precursor Plants 36/200 2 3 dice 45R 77%
-[]Agriculture 3/3
--[] Organic textiles farms 80/120 1 die 10R 88%
--[] Vertical Farming projects 0/250 2 dice 20R
-[]Tiberium 1/5
-[] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Phase 4) 67/100 1 die 15R 100%
-[]Orbital 3/3 2/2
--[] Asteroid Belt Survey Probes 0/90 2 dice 20R+ 88%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 1) 0/90 2 dice 20R+ 88%
--[] Near Body Survey Probes 0/40 1 die 10R+ 100%
-[]Service 4/4
--[] Childcare and Preschool programs 0/200 3 dice 15R 82%
--[] NOD Research Initiatives 0/120 1 die 30R 23%
-[]Military 5/5+4
--[] Shell Plants (Phase 2) 31/300 7 dice 70R
--[] Hydrofoil Shipyard-Copenhagen 0/100 2 dice 20R 82%
-[]Bureaucracy 3/3 +1
--[] Security Reviews: DC60 1 die 68%, 2 dice 98%
---[]Tiberium
---[]Heavy Industry

5/5 free dice
450/455

[]Plan Shellsho--WOLVERINES
-[]Infrastructure 3/5
--[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 2 dice 30
--[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 0/240 3 dice 60R 24%
-Heavy Industry 5/5
--[] Heavy Rolling Stock Plants 111/250 2 dice 20R 57%
--[] Kure Machine Works 0/280 3 dice 45R 9%
-Light & Chemical Industry 3/3
--[] Chemical Precursor Plants 36/200 2 3 dice 45R 77%
-[]Agriculture 3/3
--[] Organic textiles farms 80/120 1 die 10R 88%
--[] Vertical Farming projects 0/250 2 dice 20R
-[]Tiberium 1/5
-[] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Phase 4) 67/100 1 die 15R 100%
-[]Orbital 3/3 2/2
--[] Asteroid Belt Survey Probes 0/90 2 dice 20R+ 88%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 1) 0/90 2 dice 20R+ 88%
--[] Near Body Survey Probes 0/40 1 die 10R+ 100%
-[]Service 4/4
--[] Childcare and Preschool programs 0/200 3 dice 15R 82%
--[] NOD Research Initiatives 0/120 1 die 30R 23%
-[]Military 5/5+4
--[] Shell Plants (Phase 2) 31/300 7 dice 70R
--[] Wolverine Mark 3 Deployment 0/150 2 dice 20R 41%
-[]Bureaucracy 3/3 +1
--[] Security Reviews: DC60 1 die 68%, 2 dice 98%
---[]Tiberium
---[]Heavy Industry
5/5 free dice
450/455

7 dice on Shell Plants and your choice of Hydrofoil or Wolverine Mark 3.

EDIT: Wait hold on I miscounted free dice. Wait one.

EDIT:There. We needed to check up on HI anyway.

Void Stalker · Jun 27, 2021

Derpmind said:
More YZ agriculture is good, but more pressing is our need to make more Consumer Goods projects leading up to the election. Agriculture can be a good source of Consumer Goods, Vertical Farming in the short term and Processing + Ranching in the long term (as long as we keep having enough of a surplus for them.) But churning through YZ Purification Facilities first takes multiple turns for a project that only gives +2 Consumer Goods. Basically, we should use Agriculture for Consumer Goods to help with the election before we do more YZ farming.

I am fully confident that we can get both light industrial zones done, combine with fiber optics, the occasional service project the next YZ agri and some others we will have put a dent into consumer goods before the next election. Also YZ purification should let us do 2 stages of YZ agri. And it strengthens the YZ which is another major need before the election plus a way to long term undercut NOD

Simon_Jester · Jun 27, 2021

Derpmind said:
More YZ agriculture is good, but more pressing is our need to make more Consumer Goods projects leading up to the election. Agriculture can be a good source of Consumer Goods, Vertical Farming in the short term and Processing + Ranching in the long term (as long as we keep having enough of a surplus for them.) But churning through YZ Purification Facilities first takes multiple turns for a project that only gives +2 Consumer Goods. Basically, we should use Agriculture for Consumer Goods to help with the election before we do more YZ farming.

Hrm. Lemme think about that.

Although it's starting to feel like a moot point because of the big pile of other plans anyway. Being the eighth or whatever plan is arguably just time wasted.

EDIT:

Okay, switching back to 'Perennial Aquaponics' like I'd planned originally. Most of the options that produce immediate consumer goods out of agriculture aren't resource-neutral so I can't make an easy switch, but 'Perennial Aquaponics' increases food variety (which scratches some of the same itches that consumer goods scratch) and acts as feedstock we can put into other things that do make consumer goods in subsequent turns.

DecaffeinatedOwl · Jun 27, 2021

Sorry, accidentally posted.

[]Plan Shellshock v2
-[]Infrastructure 5/5
--[] Fiber-Optic Expansion 0/240 3 dice 60R 24%
--[] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 2) 40/200 2 dice 30R 32%
-Heavy Industry 5/5
--[] Heavy Rolling Stock Plants 111/250 2 dice 20R 57%
--[] Kure Machine Works 0/280 3 dice 45R 9%
-Light & Chemical Industry 3/3
--[] Chemical Precursor Plants 36/200 2 3 dice 45R 77%
-[]Agriculture 3/3
--[] Organic textiles farms 80/120 1 die 10R 88%
--[] Vertical Farming projects 0/250 2 dice 20R
-[]Tiberium 2/5
-[] Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting (Phase 4) 67/100 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Fencing (Phase 2) 36/400 1 die 15R
-[]Orbital 3/3 2/2
--[] Asteroid Belt Survey Probes 0/90 2 dice 20R+ 88%
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 1) 0/90 2 dice 20R+ 88%
--[] Near Body Survey Probes 0/40 1 die 10R+ 100%
-[]Service 4/4
--[] Childcare and Preschool programs 0/200 3 dice 15R 82%
--[] NOD Research Initiatives 0/120 1 die 30R 23%
-[]Military 5/5+5
--[] Shell Plants (Phase 2) 31/300 7 dice 70R
--[] Hydrofoil Shipyard-Copenhagen 0/100 2 dice 20R 82%
--[] Ablat Plating Development 0/70 1 die 10R 58%
-[]Bureaucracy 3/3
--[] Security Reviews: DC60
---[]Tiberium 2 dice 98%
---[]Heavy Industry i die 68%

5/5 free dice
455?/455

Knocked off ICS to see what I could get. Answer was not a lot.

EDIT: Reaccounted. I don't feel like my numbers are right?

EDIT:Inserted Rail Link Reconstruction. If the numbers don't add up I can knock that out later.

ConfusedCanuck · Jun 27, 2021

[X] plan slight military focus

[X] Plan Mil, YZ and Research

AntiSanity · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Containment + Steady Progress
[X] Plan Probe Away

Crazycryodude · Jun 27, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
Furthermore, your plan is so Resource-starved that you can only afford to activate two Infrastructure dice at all, which means at this rate we're not gonna get much done on arcologies in a timely manner.

It's hardly "resource-starved" there's a grand total of three dice inactive which I think is about the best we've ever done across the entire span of the game, and I'm not even economizing particularly hard to get more dice just doing what looks useful which is definitely a new phenomenon. If a budget crunch is the problem why should I be upgrading to the MORE expensive per-die project anyways?

Simon_Jester said:
My problem with the long lead time reasoning is that with the present military-industrial crisis we're not in a good position to invest in it. Things are likely to look better a turn or three from now when we're not so massively in the hole on shell production and have at least a little more income stream going.

I'm not opposed to launching the probes, I guess, since they're relatively cheap, though.

Yeah it's a piddly 15R and it's not like Resources are the bottleneck on military production right now anyways the bottleneck is dice. Not doing the probes wouldn't get us more military, it would free up 15R for a die on rails or arcologies or something instead but I REALLY think we need to get trucking on space. This is the kind of project we were supposed to be doing in like 2052, we are seriously behind the curve in space after only investing the barest of minimums when explicitly forced to. We can spare 15R just to use the pool of Orbital dice we've had all game, it's not like it's eating Free dice away from the military or something.

Simon_Jester said:
Also an interesting point- I could be grudgingly talked into switching over myself... but I'd like to hear more.

About Chicago or the BZ fencing? Waiting a while before we give the military yet another task to secure a bunch of hostile territory and protect yet another high-value asset seems pretty self explanatory.

The BZ fencing is part of the three-pronged BZ perimeter strategy we've been doing since like 2050, alongside the BZ perimeter redoubts and BZ perimeter outposts. They were all designed to work together and fill different niches in mitigating YZ spread, we did the full extent of the outposts and redoubts a while ago so those two legs of the triad are complete but they're missing the keystone third leg of the sonic fencing that's gotten very minimal work done on them. I don't have special QM insight or anything but the redoubts and outposts from their descriptions sound like their main job is to gobble up Yellow Zone via harvesters and push the borders outwards, while relying on the fencing to hold back the passive advance on Blue territory.

But there is no fencing (ok there's 1/3rd of a patchy incomplete network of fencing that isn't anywhere near what the plan calls for), so the outposts/redoubts are being pressed into a role they weren't really meant to fill and we aren't getting as many mitigation points as we should be. We already got a point of bonus mitigation that wasn't listed on the turn anywhere when we fully completed both the outposts and redoubts from them interacting and boosting each other, finishing off the last two stages of fencing should have similar or greater effects with the system finally operating as designed.

BZ fencing is both likely better at mitigation than YZ mining due to hidden synergies, AND it doesn't require the military to go take any territory beyond what we currently have it's just building up the areas that are securely held already which is an important consideration right now.

DecaffeinatedOwl · Jun 27, 2021

Approval voting, right?

[X] Plan Probe Away
[X] Plan Mil, YZ and Research
[x] Plan Shellshock v2

Thalton · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Mil, YZ and Research

Void Stalker · Jun 27, 2021

TripleTango said:
Approval voting, right?

Yes approval voting is allowed in this quest which is nice

Jprice · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Probe Away

PurposefulZephyr · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Probe Away

Novi · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Probe Away

Crazy7s1 · Jun 27, 2021

[x] Plan Probe Away

Klaus Wulfenback · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Containment + Steady Progress

[X] Quality of Life Focus, Mk VII

Captain Hunt · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Mil, YZ and Research
[X] Plan Containment + Steady Progress

Simon_Jester · Jun 27, 2021

...I know when to withdraw from a race.

Honestly I don't feel up for deciding which of the frontrunners I have fewer quibbles with, though.

ALanos · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Probe Away

TheFourthman · Jun 27, 2021

[X] Plan Mil, YZ and Research

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Where did it all go wrong?

Excellent