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At what point would we hit greater effectiveness than when we started?

It depends on which reform you're attempting as there are multiple. One takes ten years, one takes 2.5 years, and one takes 5 years.

For reference, the longest one reduces your military strength by 50% after which it rises at 5% a year. The second largest one reduces it by 25% and rises at 5% a year. With the quickest one reducing it by 25% and rising at 10% a year.
 
It depends on which reform you're attempting as there are multiple. One takes ten years, one takes 2.5 years, and one takes 5 years.

For reference, the longest one reduces your military strength by 50% after which it rises at 5% a year. The second largest one reduces it by 25% and rises at 5% a year. With the quickest one reducing it by 25% and rising at 10% a year.
So our next military strength is... broken even? What difference(s) exactly are there if the military strength just gets back to 100% again and not higher?
 
I'm a bit surprised so many people are going for the Miraluka and not the Blazing Chain. Does Thrawn even want to create a Force Order, or does he want to know how to fight/incorporate Force Users into his military? Based on his actions in the books, I favor the latter interpretation.
 
So our next military strength is... broken even? What difference(s) exactly are there if the military strength just gets back to 100% again and not higher?

The growth doesn't stop when you return to your original strength, all together, they can get you to making your fleet twice as strong. +50% for the large one, and +25% for the other two each.

I'm a bit surprised so many people are going for the Miraluka and not the Blazing Chain. Does Thrawn even want to create a Force Order, or does he want to know how to fight/incorporate Force Users into his military? Based on his actions in the books, I favor the latter interpretation.

He would certainly prefer the latter, although the variety that Kanuas brings does give him pause.
 
I'm a bit surprised so many people are going for the Miraluka and not the Blazing Chain. Does Thrawn even want to create a Force Order, or does he want to know how to fight/incorporate Force Users into his military? Based on his actions in the books, I favor the latter interpretation.
If he wants to build a longer term empire, having his equivalent to the Jedi Order is always useful. Even if their priority isn't to be the government's agents, they'll still help keep the nation stable.

Edit: Anyway, with the knowledge that the Echani is able to return to the original strength level faster at the cost of maximum strength, now I don't have much of a problem with her.
 
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If he wants to build a longer term empire, having his equivalent to the Jedi Order is always useful. Even if their priority isn't to be the government's agents, they'll still help keep the nation stable.
I don't think that necessarily follows. Just in Legends, the number of conflicts caused by Luke's fallen students is staggering. Kyp Durron and the Sun Crusher rampage, Desann and the Reborn, Brakiss and the Shadow Academy, Raynar Thull and the Dark Nest, Jacen Solo and his issues...and that's just the ones created by Luke's direct students! Sometimes it seems as though rogue Force users cause 90% of the conflicts in SW.

I'm not saying don't use them, just not in as prominent a role as they had in the Old and New Republics.
 
Yeah and using some of Kaunus's order to possibly make the Imperial Knights early would be a good idea as well.
 
I don't think that necessarily follows. Just in Legends, the number of conflicts caused by Luke's fallen students is staggering. Kyp Durron and the Sun Crusher rampage, Desann and the Reborn, Brakiss and the Shadow Academy, Raynar Thull and the Dark Nest, Jacen Solo and his issues...and that's just the ones created by Luke's direct students! Sometimes it seems as though rogue Force users cause 90% of the conflicts in SW.

I'm not saying don't use them, just not in as prominent a role as they had in the Old and New Republics.
From Thrawn's perspective he would moreso be looking towards the past, and they were indeed of incredible use in protecting the Republic. From the Great Hyperspace War to the Jedi Civil War to the Great Galactic War to the New Sith Wars, they have been imperative in overcoming the Sith, not even mentioning all of the miscellaneous peacekeeping they've been doing. Personally I would very much recommend that they be more politically separated from the rest of the Empire of the Hand so as to prevent the Jedi problem of them being too attached to the government to make effective change and the Sith problem of leaders being too focused on their power in the Force and their philosophy to make the right choices for the nation.
 
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[X] Plan: Play to our strengths

so I am partial to any plan that includes Jack and blazing chains mostly due to:
-Stable force user culture that didn't go too deep down Rabbithole that is Darkside despite being founded by siths assimilated by a migrant pirate fleet,
- Cool lowkey tricks with force,
- Blazing Chains are quite focused on space combat which, due to our smallish population and the fact that getting in the stabbing range of a Jedi is a universally bad idea, I would think is rather important*
- they survived with all the bad ju-ju of Unknown Regions** for thousands of years, so they had to know what they are doing
*also, space-ship space wizards are superior to the laser-sword space wizards
** Wild Space is Warhammer 40k level horrors on vacation in a galaxy far, far away ( Mnggal-Mnggal, for example, Mnggal-Mnggal)
 
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@Daemon Hunter I have a question: even after the advisor interviews, is it possible to hire any of the candidates as contractors/independent heroes? Even if we don't choose him as an advisor, I think Jack would make a marvelous consultant for his Vong knowledge alone.
 
[X] Plan: Risk and Balance, with Clones

Looks like my plan won't be winning so I guess I'll take the next closest one.
[X] Plan: Play to our strengths

so I am partial to any plan that includes Jack and blazing chains mostly due to:
-Stable force user culture that didn't go too deep down Rabbithole that is Darkside despite being founded by siths assimilated by a migrant pirate fleet,
- Cool lowkey tricks with force,
- Blazing Chains are quite focused on space combat which, due to our smallish population and the fact that getting in the stabbing range of a Jedi is a universally bad idea, I would think is rather important*
- they survived with all the bad ju-ju of Unknown Regions** for thousands of years, so they had to know what they are doing
*also, space-ship space wizards are superior to the laser-sword space wizards
** Wild Space is Warhammer 40k level horrors on vacation in a galaxy far, far away ( Mnggal-Mnggal, for example, Mnggal-Mnggal)
On any individual naval battle I think Thrawn is fully capable of beating his opponents regardless, so in my opinion Jack would be fairly redundant. Plus like he mentioned his fleet is gone, so we're still starting from scratch more or less rather than straight up adopting the Blazing Chains sect as our own.
 
[X] Plan: Risk and Balance, with Clones

Gives great opportunities for improvment and pays to Thrawn's strengths while fixing the Empire's traditional weaknesses.
 
On any individual naval battle I think Thrawn is fully capable of beating his opponents regardless, so in my opinion Jack would be fairly redundant. Plus like he mentioned his fleet is gone, so we're still starting from scratch more or less rather than straight up adopting the Blazing Chains sect as our own.
We aren't getting the blazing chain. He is trained in Blazing Chain techniques and in Matukai so that is what he will train them on.

I also added Jack since the whole reason the Jedi fucked up was because they were doing too much. Better to just use them as war assets instead of anything else.
 
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We aren't getting the blazing chain. He is trained in Blazing Chain techniques and in Matukai so that is what he will train them on.
That is... what I was saying. We aren't getting a culture and a fleet we are getting a single person who has their skills plus other odds and ends, mainly Matukai. Hence why it isn't really as big of a benefit in those particular regards.
 
That is... what I was saying. We aren't getting a culture and a fleet we are getting a single person who has their skills plus other odds and ends, mainly Matukai. Hence why it isn't really as big of a benefit in those particular regards.
The benefit is that it will create a group that is actually able to function as part of a larger military and be useful instead of just getting a bunch of people killed the way the Jedi and sith did when they led military units with no right to be in command of anything.
 
The benefit is that it will create a group that is actually able to function as part of a larger military and be useful instead of just getting a bunch of people killed the way the Jedi and sith did when they led military units with no right to be in command of anything.
No that wasn't my point. The point is that they aren't ready to go yet. Jack is one person and needs time to get people up to snuff. In terms of military commanders we already have our own people to handle that, we have no need to put such a thing on a Force Sect's curriculum instead of making them better in their own unique skills.
 
Looks like my plan won't be winning so I guess I'll take the next closest one.

On any individual naval battle I think Thrawn is fully capable of beating his opponents regardless, so in my opinion Jack would be fairly redundant. Plus like he mentioned his fleet is gone, so we're still starting from scratch more or less rather than straight up adopting the Blazing Chains sect as our own.

It's less a matter of having a fleet of Blazing chains and more about having know-how about building a force-user sect that isn't a dumpster fire.

Thrawn indeed is an "I Win" button in naval battle but hear me out!
Let's say that we fight the Bio-punk Mary Sues Vong on multiple fronts, and we have only one Thrawn*, Blazing Chains able to perform Battle Meditation** or other augmentative techniques will be priceless.

Also, Jack already knows about the Vong.

* Unless we successfully clone him and place Thraawns in command positions/ use their collective Magnificent Bastardry to power superweapon of some kind (actually @Daemon Hunter purely theoretically would be the cloning of the Thrawn feasible?)
**I know that Battle Meditation is a rarity: YES, but I am willing to sink as many resources as necessary to get that technique. (also, if my lore-map fu does not deceive me, we already more or less control regions of Dantooine, so archaeology HO!
 
If people have any questions for Daemon, please feel free to post them in the thread. I promise you that he will answer any question, no matter how ridiculous you might think it sounds in your head. He's answered weirder.
 
**I know that Battle Meditation is a rarity: YES, but I am willing to sink as many resources as necessary to get that technique. (also, if my lore-map fu does not deceive me, we already more or less control regions of Dantooine, so archaeology HO!
Battle Meditation on the strategic level like Joruus C'Baoth or on the tactical level? Because we can probably get the latter more easily than the former.

But this is a good point so @Daemon Hunter would Jack and Nokkra have access to some form of Battle Meditation? I assume Kanuas at least knows of the technique even if he hasn't used it.
 
No that wasn't my point. The point is that they aren't ready to go yet. Jack is one person and needs time to get people up to snuff. In terms of military commanders we already have our own people to handle that, we have no need to put such a thing on a Force Sect's curriculum instead of making them better in their own unique skills.
None of them are ready to go, dude. Literally, all of them are starting as one person. And again you are missing the entire point of Jack which is to make a damn order that can actually handle working with the military in a way that doesn't just get people killed.
 
None of them are ready to go, dude. Literally, all of them are starting as one person. And again you are missing the entire point of Jack which is to make a damn order that can actually handle working with the military in a way that doesn't just get people killed.
I already know this, Dude. I was explaining exactly that, which is precisely why he is redundant in my opinion. Every single organization will need time to grow and progress into something useful, and in this case we will need to still put resources into training military leaders here even when that job is already going to be covered by Thrawn and his subordinates. I do not want Force Users to lead men into battle I want them for their unique skills only, we can get talented generals and admirals from a much larger population base. Whether Nokkra, Jack, or Kanuas, I am against having them or their orders' members in positions of military command. In Jack's case, although I like the Force Powers that he can provide, I want an organization which is actually focused on being powerful Force Adepts rather than some half-assed captains, which cuts away a good chunk of what Jack provides.
 
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I already know this, Dude. I was explaining exactly that, which is precisely why he is redundant in my opinion. Every single organization will need time to grow and progress into something useful, and in this case we will need to still put resources into training military leaders here even when that job is already going to be covered by Thrawn and his subordinates. I do not want Force Users to lead men into battle I want them for their unique skills only, we can get talented generals and admirals from a much larger population base. Whether Nokkra, Jack, or Kanuas, I am against having them or their orders' members in positions of military command. In Jack's case, although I like the Force Powers that he can provide, I want an organization which is actually focused on being powerful Force Adepts rather than some half-assed captains, which cuts away a good chunk of what Jack provides.
And you are again missing the point of Jack he is not leading or training them to lead anything. He is training them to work with the military in large scale operations something none of the other offer. He is also offering the skills to actually counter the Vong's BS skills and abilities that make all other force users next to useless in a fight with then.
 
And you are again missing the point of Jack he is not leading or training them to lead anything. He is training them to work with the military in large scale operations something none of the other offer. He is also offering the skills to actually counter the Vong's BS skills and abilities that make all other force users next to useless in a fight with then.
1. Then why did you only make reference to the Jedi fucking up during the Clone Wars due to being inexperienced commanders? Force Users work fine as long as they do not have to do that and can focus on using their powers in other ways, like as assassins, strike teams, interrogators, and Battle Meditation practicioners.
2. He says he can offer insight into their methodology, not that he has any notable (particularly Force-based) solutions to them. Things like how their armor resists blasters, how they can't be telekinetically lifted, or how they use terraforming (and even this is a stretch considering all we know is that his fleet was destroyed by them), not ways to win against them.

Edit: Regardless, I'm pretty sure the Chiss themselves have more extensive knowledge of the Vong than what Jack could provide.
 
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