Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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More pumped? I doubt it. It's not like he's slower than an Abyssal Bee already. If he gets too greedy in the Verdant South, they'll get together to stomp him.
And why would he?

What does this hypothetical point that Old Cannibal wouldn't be able to exceed before he gets teamed up on by the united forces of the Verdant South look like?

? I dont think hed benefit more than us if we played our cards right. Getting a shit ton of money, being able to embargo and press on the jingshen clan with our trade routes and bribing spend extravagant amounts of money making ourselves stronger is nothing to sneeze at. Cannibal would have to put in serious work and even then he isnt garunteef to succeed and we get a 200 year break from him.
Old Cannibal gets unfettered access to a consistent source of mortals he never was able to touch in the Desert, and as the Devil Bees are a splinter legacy of the same Old Abyssal responsible for getting the Battle Blood Cannibals started, there is absolutely zero chance that whatever resources they possess will be incompatible with Old Cannibal himself, meaning that between the influx of subordinates, resources, and possibly even boosts to his cultivation, Old Cannibal has a very solid shot of getting himself to Late Nascent Soul under that scenario.

200 Years is plenty of time to digest the meal, especially since he'd get it under control with Manuels help.
 
[X] The Negotiated End
[X] Blind the Thief

Mo' money, mo' flexibility. Trials weakening seem less of a winning strategy and more of a loss prevention, which is the opposite mindset I hold.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by RebelYell on Mar 13, 2021 at 10:07 PM, finished with 185 posts and 51 votes.
 
One thing id like to point out is that it may be hard to defend our territory for the next trials without the trials buff. We will have significantly more land we have to protect and money only goes so far. We weaken the trials and they wont be able to leverage the fact we are so spread out as much.
 
Who's going to attack?

Certainly not the Jingshen. Their primary interest is the Scorpion Road. Besides money only goes so far is an odd concern. We've got two full turns to prepare for the Trials unhindered.

That's not a small thing
 
Adhoc vote count started by Sparsebeard on Mar 13, 2021 at 10:25 PM, finished with 285 posts and 62 votes.


Those are the right numbers. Tally must start from "Year ????" not "Hong Xuan", Trial debuffs are still slightly in the lead.
 
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Who's going to attack?

Certainly not the Jingshen. Their primary interest is the Scorpion Road. Besides money only goes so far is an odd concern. We've got two full turns to prepare for the Trials unhindered.

That's not a small thing
Er, the 5th Sea, I believe DangerKitty meant.

He was saying that: "Now that we have so much more territory, we have so much more to defend come the next Trials too!"

If we build up infrastructure in the new territories, the 5th Sea could wind up knocking some of it down more easily than elsewhere, since its newer and less-defended than the Golden Devil heartlands. Granted, there probably won't be too many Golden Devils in the new territories yet... but at the same time, it will be territory that is valuable to the Golden Devils, which means if the Golden Devils want to profit from it they have to defend it which means the 5th Sea invaders could threaten it... we could just let them burn it, resolving to rebuild it again afterward, but... That would mean a setback in all our "Ooh, this is rich new territory!" dreams because of that. =/

Whereas, as DangerKitty was saying, if we pick the "Cloak the Ways" path then the 5th Sea invaders would not find it as easy to strike at us even in our new territory.
 
The Fifth Sea targets our Cultivators, not our infrastructure. More landmass doesn't make the fight harder, only more Cultivators.
 
Whereas, as DangerKitty was saying, if we pick the "Cloak the Ways" path then the 5th Sea invaders would not find it as easy to strike at us even in our new territory.
They get teleported over with no control on our part, split up, and eventually link up with their own elders to try and crack the more stubborn bits of infrastructure

The space doesnt matter. It genuinely, literally doesn't, right down to the trees they get to track tokens and thus one another
 
Gonna try and shill for the underdog, with credit to @Garlak for stating some points already:
[Blind Thief] has both immediate and long-term benefits. It plays a key role in the upcoming negotiations by duping Jingshen with the unexpected income increase. Any concessions will be calculated with revenue in mind, so Manuel can play with how the territory will be split, and intrigue games are his strength. It gives us the opportunity to trick their assumptions and make out like bandits in the process.

With all the Boons being equal, [Blind Thief] also combines better with [Negotiated End]. We can use Wealth to recover from Trials more easily, which gives a similarly equivalent effect as less casualties from [Easier Trials]. However, the synergy of [Blind Thief] also allows us to:
- Immediately clear up the Curse of Impoverishment for our newly-gained Cannibal territory.
- Match Jingshen's greatest advantage, cornering our leftover Rival with little options against us with our new Wealth + Diplomacy w/ Strength Purity.
- Qualitatively increase the Clan's strength by repairing the Technique Palace which requires Wealth.

Honestly, I think reducing the Wealth Curse has more impact than Trials, precisely because it's simple to mitigate. 100-year Trials and Wealth Curse are both 4 Point Drawbacks, eliminating one is better than halving the strength of Trials. Wealth provides Greater Adaptability since we can optimize recovery/growth and react to new situations by throwing money at the problem.

The Trial Boon reduces casualties/attrition, but when you compare it against Wealth, it's less of a convertible resource and does not provide the same value. Money lets us:
- Build defenses & preparations against Trials or any other War. (Similarly reduced casualties)
- Recover from Trials much faster, in-effect gaining Free Actions when we'd otherwise be occupied.
- Afford to sustain more Cultivators, and eventually a 2nd Nascent Soul.

[ ] Blind the Thief
-Does not affect what we have now but what we will get in the future, we are steadily weakening that curse anyway
Want to correct you here that it does affect us now, Blind Thief applies to the Cannibal territory we're about to negotiate on.


TL;DR
[Blind Thief] outright eliminates a 4-point Drawback and has lots of synergy. [Cloak The Ways] however, merely weakens a 4-point Drawback and doesn't have much flexibility.
 
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Seconding this sentiment, I'd like to ask you guys to seriously consider the kinds of insane gains we could make with all this cash.

We took a huge risk to get that technique palace. Actually having enough income to start fixing it is key to making that beating we took worth it.
 
Aliki Floros 7 - An Education on Murder
Aliki Floros
An Education in Murder
This was a very strange place, strange indeed.

Aliki didn't understand what this strange location that the Voice spirited her off to was all about--it was mostly underground, not especially well lit, and sand was pouring in everywhere. It especially didn't help that aside from Mister Spoon, she didn't get sent off here with anything important--not her tools, not her medicines, not even her clothes and stitches!

Of course, The Voice directed her to some funny looking robe that was really more a pair of sleeves with bunch of twisting ribbons than anything practical for the desert.

*irrelevant* The Voice declared when she pointed that out. *the advantage in manipulation granted by appealing to the baser instincts of men is significantly outweighs the damage sustained by extended sun exposure.*

Aliki was more concerned about the sand actually, but she did suppose that her current Cultivation would prevent it from being an extended nuisance, so she didn't protest much--her insides still felt all knotted up and she had little ability to channel her power, so making a stand here and now on little trivialities like that seemed a nuisance.

It was better instead to just take advantage of all the studying she could do instead.

*know that the [Tree of Death] is the ultimate symbiotic lifeform* it would say one morning. *it defies the heavens by way of its very existence, serving as a neutral medium that cleanses and purifies the blood of all things, utilizing the consumptive principles of Yin to refine your own blood into a transcendent form that I have dubbed ichor. in this process, one is removed from the the masses, standing instead as an incarnate demon that can only be as its nature demands.* There is a brief pause as The Voice seems to chew that over.

*perhaps this is the true reason you could not serve your intended function comes down to this, you are innately tied to your nature--to change that would be to damage that which makes you a masterwork. the Great Master at least seems to approve of your existence--perhaps I have not erred in releasing you in your incomplete state.*

When the Voice went off on tangents like that, it tended to be creepy, just babbling all kinds of weird things like helixes and entanglement and all kinds of words she'd never heard before but was tucking away in the back of her mind just in case she figured out how they were important later. It was okay, The Voice was an old aunty and you always had to be patient with old people! They tended to have a lot of valuable thoughts once they finally finished sorting it all out, and if you rush them you'll only just confuse them.

*know that your cultivation is presently on a positive course* The Voice added after it finished talking about some where chromo-thingies. *the ninth heavenstage within twenty years is adequate progress, and the fluctuations of your body suggest that the tenth is likely only a heartbeat away. you should seize that opportunity before beginning preparations for your breakthrough--a stronger body will accelerate the evolution of your [Tree of Death]. in turn, you should not concern yourself with the further unorthodox stages--marginal efficiency enhancements from purified qi and optimized spirit pathways are helpful, but the additional hundred years and enhanced tribulation do not make up for this. i made the mistake of attempting perfection when i could have settled for good enough as one of the Great Master's honorary disciples.*

Aliki nodded, taking note of all of this--a bunch of the Golden Devils best and brightest were playing along with all of that, and a lot of them could have been advancing instead--probably a better choice to just go for broke when you could! She took a moment though to consider things.

"You're saying an awful lot about things I don't understand" She added. "And while I see the importance of careful cultivation... I'm also seeing that you're talking a lot about bodies too--in ways I've never even heard about." She tilted her head slightly as the thought continued to percolate in her mind.

"All that stuff is what I'm really interested in!" She added. "I mean, things about a fancy body and a strong constitution are nice, but what I'm really interested in are medicine! Surgery and transfusion and all of the other fixy-things! None of that boring herbalism stuff that lots of others are talking about! And since you know so much about it, it's just... You know, nice to hear about?"

The Voice paused

*my knowledge of the medical arts is hard won--it is not in the nature of my Dao, not directly* it began. *nonetheless, the act of combining disparate powers lends itself well to the process of enhancement and repair, it is not beyond my abilities to master.* It seemed to grow in confidence as it considered this value.

*very well, I will speak on my learning in this field, it cannot hurt your cause and may provide some small benefit. know of the helix that governs the body...*

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Months and months passed within the Odd Place. There was food enough to be had here and there--even if some of them were funny looking animals and human-like thingies that were running around and droopy and eating each other when she wasn't eating them in turn. The Voice was an everpresent thing that spoke of medical terms Aliki had never heard of--but the wisdom was real, the effects were real (Based on some of her experiments anyway when she wasn't going to eat something right away that is), and much of it brought her learning in the Fortress into perspective!

Really, this was a great time to be had! But all things eventually came to an end--the poking and prodding she got whenever she had to head back into the pod thing grew more and more fuzzy, and eventually things were poked and jostled just right.

And then? Whoosh! All of her superpowers came back!

At which point The Voice declared that the repairs were complete and Aliki was to withdraw.

Which was a little disappointing but when she poked and prodded and asked if there was more she could learn, it dismissed the matter. Echoing something like *it would impact your development to learn more at this time, return when you have mastered what you know, and we will speak again* Funny business one and all!

But she did learn a lot, and she did get made better when she probably should have gone splat, so she'd call it a big win in the end!

Of course, confirming that she wasn't some body snatcher or something when everything probably thought she was dead was going to be a headache... But hey! She got back and got better in record time! Enough to even attend that big fancy war that was supposed to be starting soon with the Cannibals! Perfectly acceptable targets by anyone's definition! She could go all snippy snip, Mister Spoon could have a good lunch or two, and she might even have a few people she could poke and prod and see how The Voice's teachings worked on things that were close enough to being human that they might actually qualify as some!

You know, if they couldn't dislocate their jaws and eat people whole, somehow.

How did they even do that? Was it something like how her claws just went all fwoosh when she stabbed something with them? You can't fit a full sized person in a stomach after all no matter what kind of fancy digestion techniques you use! They're just too big!

There were mysteries abound to solve! And she'd get to the bottom of this one one way or the other!
 
For people wondering why removing Thin Qi is possible and good. You can check Alectai. And also consider two things:

1) The Curse had to weaken itself on our current territories in the backstory.
2) It has been said at least once in the thread that roughly doubling up our territory would likely have it fully expend itself.

In other words while starting price tag was 4 Shinies Worth, its current price tag should be about half that. Just enough to be fully covered by the boon.

So I added it to my previous vote in an approval vote fashion.
 
[X] The Negotiated End
[X] Blind the Thief

I'm not sure that this is the right choice but joining the righteous path or getting a combat bonus for Manual doesn't have a lot of support.
 
Just to get an idea of where we're sitting...
Adhoc vote count started by BadAtScreenNames on Mar 14, 2021 at 3:02 AM, finished with 299 posts and 66 votes.
 
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