- Location
- New York
[X] Drifting into the conversation between Gan Guangli and Meng Dan on the Mountain folk, where Hanyi sat listening idly.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I mean, you're right that just reducing it to "optimal action" is too simplistic. I was just trying to provide a rough general framework there. The situation has nuance that is important. I guess in this case I'd characterise it as "Ling Qi saw this move as being optimal in terms of mission success and correspondingly her and Renxiang's success and progression".
It's not necessarily the only way you could look at it, but in the context of Ling Qi seeing a conflict between this and her friend's happiness... well, you need there to actually be a conflict. Redefining "optimal" to value different things is potentially a way of resolving the conflict, yes, but first I think it's important to try to understand where Ling Qi is coming from with her conflict?
I don't disagree that "when is tough love alright?" is an unreasonable question to be asking in the context of the current conflict... but I'm not sure if it fits the overall picture we have of our heart demon?
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Just saw this edit. Yeah. I was talking mostly about CRX. That was definitely a coddle vs tough love choice. And I don't think it fits neatly into your diagram. If it is the same heart demon as Zhengui, and not a different one, then it is clearly much more involved than we had thought before.
Well, if it was something new then I feel that a) @yrsillar would have probably placed much more emphasis on its creation, and b) he should have given us new cultivation penalties
And honestly, that inability to trust in external strength is something the quest consistently votes for. The last vote was essentially a choice between trusting in the strength of Renxiang's mind, or the strength of her trauma. The knife incident was a choice between Ling Qi's strength or the strength of Xiulan and Zhengui, and the sect soldiery.
The only time the thread votes to trust in the strength of others, at all, is when there is a big carrot at the end of the stick to even bother, or Meizhen's involved. Ling Qi trying to reconcile with Meizhen after the Lake is one of the few times the thread bothered to trust the strength of another character with no promise of success, or any promise of benefit.
Hmm. So...
This is less greed, but a fundamental lack of trust? She doesn't want to leave any job to anyone else, either because they're weaker than her and so she risks something important failing because she wasn't the one doing it, or because they're stronger than her and thus threatening to leave her behind?
I can see that.
Very different way of looking at things than Xia Lin, who's trained to operate at her best as part of a unit. Makes me happier with my vote, I guess - that's a different perspective Ling Qi needs.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Well, if it was something new then I feel that a) @yrsillar would have probably placed much more emphasis on its creation, and b) he should have given us new cultivation penalties
Yeah. Ergo I think your diagram and framing is insufficient for a full understanding of the issues.
Cause on it's face: "Tough Love vs Coddling" (the crx vote just now) and "Can you help others keep up without slowing down yourself?" are not related at all.
So something is up. And this Heart Demon may go way deeper than we thought.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Insert Tally
I mean, she's perfectly happy to leave jobs to other people.
I will remind everyone that what pissed Zhengui off in the first place was us repeatedly leaving him behind to do useful jobs that we felt he could do well.
What Ling Qi isn't happy with is limiting herself. Ling Qi throwing herself in front of the knife was what set the others off - but was not the decision that actually caused her Heart Demon.
Actually, I think that short term risks like mere injuries aren't necessarily a problem either. Her issue is more with long term hindrances have to her progression. So with the Renxiang issue here the reason she didn't like the other option was that she felt that success in this mission was critical to her and Renxiang's progression.
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[X] In her own mind, with Sixiang, pondering the meaning of insights, and the demon gnawing at her heart.
The heart demon has to be dealt with. It is going to continue being a problem for us, the penalty, while seemingly small, I imagine the math cabal calculates can add up to a lot, and probably will severely hamper any attempted future breakthroughs.
The heart demon has to be dealt with. It is going to continue being a problem for us, the penalty, while seemingly small, I imagine the math cabal calculates can add up to a lot, and probably will severely hamper any attempted future breakthroughs.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Sorry, can you expound on this part more? I don't completely understand this part.
[X] Outside the pavilion, where Xia Lin sat beside Zhengui's bulk, staring thoughtfully out into the snow.
[X] Drifting into the conversation between Gan Guangli and Meng Dan on the Mountain folk, where Hanyi sat listening idly
[X] Drifting into the conversation between Gan Guangli and Meng Dan on the Mountain folk, where Hanyi sat listening idly
Mmm, it's the idea that Ling Qi doesn't just see failing there as something that would have minor consequences like her injured. It's something that would have significant long term consequences, and so be majorly limiting in terms of things like her and Renxiang's political success and access to resources that could significantly hinder their growth.
(not 100% on this tho)
Edit: in retrospect I think this whole line of thought I went down was possibly misguided
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Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] In her own mind, with Sixiang, pondering the meaning of insights, and the demon gnawing at her heart.
Let's actually get the problem more accurately identified, or failing that at least figure out where the borders of it start or finish.
Let's actually get the problem more accurately identified, or failing that at least figure out where the borders of it start or finish.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] In her own mind, with Sixiang, pondering the meaning of insights, and the demon gnawing at her heart.
Switching. The arguments for this have convinced me.
Edit: I'll keep my vote for GG as well since I doubt it'll catch up at all.
[X] Drifting into the conversation between Gan Guangli and Meng Dan on the Mountain folk, where Hanyi sat listening idly.
Switching. The arguments for this have convinced me.
Edit: I'll keep my vote for GG as well since I doubt it'll catch up at all.
[X] Drifting into the conversation between Gan Guangli and Meng Dan on the Mountain folk, where Hanyi sat listening idly.
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- Pronouns
- He
[X] In her own mind, with Sixiang, pondering the meaning of insights, and the demon gnawing at her heart.
[X] In her own mind, with Sixiang, pondering the meaning of insights, and the demon gnawing at her heart.
Hmm... maybe it was a matter of 'Ling Qi had to pick between taking a more-risky approach, or hurting a friend for sure but accomplishing the mission... and Ling Qi decided not to take a risk on the mission objective, even if it required hurting her friend'?
In a sense, it's an expression of... well, fear.
Given the "safe" choice and a "risky" choice, she went for the safe one.
But she wanted to be the kind of person who COULD find it in herself to take the other path. She thought she was becoming the sort of person who can take that other path. And yet, here she is faced with another choice... and she feels like she picked to "back off, and not take a risk" again.
Just some stumbling around and trying to put words to things here. Not sure how accurate or useful or not.
In a sense, it's an expression of... well, fear.
Given the "safe" choice and a "risky" choice, she went for the safe one.
But she wanted to be the kind of person who COULD find it in herself to take the other path. She thought she was becoming the sort of person who can take that other path. And yet, here she is faced with another choice... and she feels like she picked to "back off, and not take a risk" again.
Just some stumbling around and trying to put words to things here. Not sure how accurate or useful or not.
This interpretation argues that Ling Qi hasn't fundamentally changed since the time she stood before the shadow of a white spirit in a dream, looking to make the mighty move despite being small, and folded like a wet paper towel.
MooGoesCow21
Just Listen to me....
- Location
- US Washington
[X] Outside the pavilion, where Xia Lin sat beside Zhengui's bulk, staring thoughtfully out into the snow.