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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Elero said:
Don't small children grow out of shoes pretty damn quickly? I think a toy would last her quite a bit longer than shoes.
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It's representative. We're rich enough in mortal terms that both a single pair of shoes, and an entire set of shoes ranging from her current size to an adult woman's would cost the same to us (that is, nothing noticeable).
 
Yeah, OK, I'm convinced. We went through a miserable childhood and built our domain around a sad song so that our little sister could dance happily. It's complementary to our own themes while not pushing her to just being a second us. No "I call her Mini-Qi."

[X] Dancing Shoes
 
A Completely Objective And Totally Unbiased Tally
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Adhoc vote count started by Karnax626 on Jan 28, 2020 at 6:31 PM, finished with 243 posts and 103 votes.
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[X] Big Picture Encyclopedia: Emerald Seas
[X] Arts and Crafts set (including paints and the like)
Yeah, still not a fan of the shoes. Like, what kid is going to be happy to get shoes?
 
I really don't like the way this vote is going. While dance shoes are fine an instrument will also give her an amazing teacher a way to be like her big sister and most if not all arts we end up making. Teaching her music now will give her an advantage that will last her whole life.
 
storryeater said:
Counterpoint: cultivation is deeply personal.

Who knows how many incredily talented people got stumped because they got pidgeonholed into their clan's cultivation? Meizhen got dunked but thankfully she got over it thanks to a Sect Elder, Ling Qi and her clan being old enough to have archives (in that order of importance), while Fan Yu got orbitally obliterated solely due to pidgeonholing.

So yeah, pidgeonholing someone may be more harmful than just telling them "this is what we have, but if you really want to follow a different path, we support you, we are just unable to supply the arts" when they are old enough to understand these things.
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You really think we are pidgeonholing Biyu? She's five years old, for spirits' sake.
If later shegoes full teenangster and decides on a completely different build (even a *gasp* unoptimized one), I don't think we'll stop her. She won't be able to make use of our library or experience, though. Why try to drive her into that situation early?
 
NullVoid said:
You really think we are pidgeonholing Biyu? She's five years old, for spirits' sake.
If later shegoes full teenangster and decides on a completely different build (even a *gasp* unoptimized one), I don't think we'll stop her. She won't be able to make use of our library or experience, though. Why try to drive her into that situation early?
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I do not think most of the music and/or dancing shoes voters are pidgeonholing her, no. I, however, quoted and answered very specific arguments that, if taken at face value, would lead to us pidgeonholing her.

Maybe it is just a quirk of mine, but I do not want to let an argument I disagree with go unchallenged, even if (it isn't the case here, but it is other times) it agrees with my vote. The reason is not purely ideological, if it goes unchallenged, it could take root into the thread conciousness and affect a future vote before I get the chance to get involved to the discourse. Besides, I enjoy a good debate in any scenario, and if I am lucky, maybe I'll even be proven wrong and thus learn something.

In short, this wasn't opposing any votes per se (although it did indirectly support my choice), but rather, a mentality shown in certain arguments.

However, since we are talking about whether this vote can lead to pidgeonholing, It should also be noted that even indirect influence can sometimes make someone suppress their true talent, out of duty and obligation, even if the other party is well-meaning. I desire a book cuz it grants her the most agency, as knowledge could work for a thousand different builds and development routes. Similarly, I oppose any gift that is geared towards a single activity because it could cause a certain degree of strain. Mind you, I do not think that'll actually happen and even if it does, the thread will likely run full speed to reverse the negative effects. As such, I am not arguing more passionately for my vote, nor am I that invested on the results of this one, I am just voting and arguing on principle.
 
Screw shoes. Seriously, think of all the 5 years olds you know. Would any of them really give a hoot about any type of shoes?

Books, toys, puzzles, various soundmaking things, pets
 
[X] Flute
[X] Drums
[X] Dancing Shoes
I'm cool with any of these, I just want to share our love of music with our family.
 
storryeater said:
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Maybe it is just a quirk of mine, but I do not want to let an argument I disagree with go unchallenged, even if (it isn't the case here, but it is other times) it agrees with my vote. The reason is not purely ideological, if it goes unchallenged, it could take root into the thread conciousness and affect a future vote before I get the chance to get involved to the discourse. Besides, I enjoy a good debate in any scenario, and if I am lucky, maybe I'll even be proven wrong and thus learn something.
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However, since we are talking about whether this vote can lead to pidgeonholing, It should also be noted that even indirect influence can sometimes make someone suppress their true talent, out of duty and obligation, even if the other party is well-meaning. I desire a book cuz it grants her the most agency, as knowledge could work for a thousand different builds and development routes. Similarly, I oppose any gift that is geared towards a single activity because it could cause a certain degree of strain. Mind you, I do not think that'll actually happen and even if it does, the thread will likely run full speed to reverse the negative effects. As such, I am not arguing more passionately for my vote, nor am I that invested on the results of this one, I am just voting and arguing on principle.
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While I do respect your opinion, I'm vehemently opposed to it. Children learn by first imitating, then defying their elders; after a while, they (with luck) find their place in the world, and then the next generation repeats the process. We should encourage her towards "good" activities, in order to shape her worldview and teach her how to live in society. While I do agree that maximizing her options is not a bad thing, gearing her towards specific actions is important for character building. There's no arguing that Princess Sun has an effective build, but she fails hard at social consciousness; she has easily chosen to sacrifice the well-being of the community for personal power, and we won't be fixing that flaw in her personality through the power of friendship. Biyu has everything she needs to become as pampered and selfish as the majority of our fellow disciples (or our third spirit, to be honest). A strong grounding in her life will give her a basic template from which she should be able to deviate without becoming hopelessly lost.
 
I would love to play our dancing spirits art for her, and let the whirling moon spirits play with her and teach her to dance.

Honestly, how better guide her to a Way we can help her upon than to show her the wonder and joy of ours?

And it could give her a better sense for interacting with spirits later.

uiopion said:
Screw shoes. Seriously, think of all the 5 years olds you know. Would any of them really give a hoot about any type of shoes?

Books, toys, puzzles, various soundmaking things, pets
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Thor's Twin said:
It totally depends on the shoes. I've seen 5-year-olds who will not shut up about how awesome their sparkly shoes are which light up when you stomp.
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Yeah my experience has really been with more shoe-positive kids, especially the ones who are either a) status concious b) the types to use their shoes into the ground before they can grow out of them c) the recipient of really flashy/shiny kicks.
 
NullVoid said:
While I do respect your opinion, I'm vehemently opposed to it. Children learn by first imitating, then defying their elders; after a while, they (with luck) find their place in the world, and then the next generation repeats the process. We should encourage her towards "good" activities, in order to shape her worldview and teach her how to live in society. While I do agree that maximizing her options is not a bad thing, gearing her towards specific actions is important for character building. There's no arguing that Princess Sun has an effective build, but she fails hard at social consciousness; she has easily chosen to sacrifice the well-being of the community for personal power, and we won't be fixing that flaw in her personality through the power of friendship. Biyu has everything she needs to become as pampered and selfish as the majority of our fellow disciples (or our third spirit, to be honest). A strong grounding in her life will give her a basic template from which she should be able to deviate without becoming hopelessly lost.
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Ok... none of what you said here I disagree or disagreed with.

But how will dancing shoes or a music instrument achieve this purpose better than a book? Reading tends to build character, empathy and creativity, and while you can say that it doesn't help socialising, neither do dance shoes/music.

Now, learning to art is also a good thing to learn that will help, but it should preferably be an art she chooses.
 
Worth noting here that her birthday isn't until winter. It's still autumn. There's lots of time for yrsillar to develop things organically.

I would also note that we're not gooing to be pigeonholing Biyu now. She's going to have a proper noble education.

Dance and unarmed are appropriate things to be introducing to her now. She'll certainly get basic tutoring in the noble weapons, and archery, and probably how to throw knives when she's older. Of course she'll be taught the flute, and possibly other instruments - as well as etiquette and history and all those thing Ling Qi didn't have. She'll have plenty of opportunities to find what she likes.
 
storryeater said:
But how will dancing shoes or a music instrument achieve this purpose better than a book? Reading tends to build character, empathy and creativity, and while you can say that it doesn't help socialising, neither do dance shoes/music.
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You are both not really arguing on which is best. From what I see, you're trying to change another persons preference using illogical and/or nonsensical statements of intent (though really its the book elietists who tend to brush off all others as uninportant/lesser)


storryeater said:
Now, learning to art is also a good thing to learn that will help, but it should preferably be an art she chooses.
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here's the thing. Its been stated by yrsilar that this is (or partially) a meta vote on where we nudge Biyu's growth as a character (not necessarily a person).

And really? Using a "it should be something she chooses" as an excuse to avoid giving an engergetic outgoing kid something to spend her energies on? And that same arguement applys more to a book (any book), considering Biyu is still a child and has no set preferences as of yet.
 
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