- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We have -Rosen caught out as a killing role that lied about visiting Shadell last night. We should be lynching him today.
The Morrsley Village Experiment
- Thread starter We Just Write
- Start date
- Mafia
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
I'm fine either way on this, but if Rosen lives I can stop a nightkill tonight without the risk of blocking Town instead.
If we lynch Rosen and he's not the Serial Killer we won't know who will be doing the kills at all.
Tundra Sniper
A Sniper on the Ridge
- Location
- United States
Insert tally
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That presumes that you are telling the truth about being a roleblocker which I am uncertain of, that you are right about how the set up works, which I also doubt, and that you are actually going to do what is in town's best interest.
Not lynching scum because a third party player promises to RB them and has a theory about how the scum team works just doesn't fly. We should lynch -Rosen today. Probably Cyricubed Day 3 and hope we can nail down the SK in the mean time.
Tundra Sniper
A Sniper on the Ridge
- Location
- United States
This is a fair point. I'm of the opinion that we should not lynch -Rosen for the time being in case there are other scum to uncover.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There are definitely other scum to uncover. But one fewer scum alive and voting is better. Also one fewer players contributing to the scum chat and to coordinate plays.
Trading a nightkill for mislynch under these circumstances doesn't seem profitable in the slightest.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Money, mouth, colocation
[X] Lynch -Rosen
[X] Lynch -Rosen
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Also, I will note that a gunsmith isn't going to detect a backup killer unless the front-up killer is already dead.
Cyricubed
Residant Bird.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Birb
I mean barring a counter-claim we could very well mark nictis as the roleblocker. Also You're giving me the impression you want day to end early. I agree with a Rosen lynch however I want more discussion and input from lurkers.
And while we're here can you or anyone give me a reason I'm scum beyond me refusing to view wincon hinting as a valid scumhunt strategy and unwilling to "prove" myself with it. Because if you can't then expect a half-assed and pissed off defense in return.
Cyricubed
Residant Bird.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Birb
Here's another thing, and it pushes further for not skipping over -rosen lynch.
Yes, IJW's first game had it so only a single mafia scum could kill and it was inherited. Frankly that game wasn't designed good, both to IJW's inexperience in designing plus having an actually scummy person as his second. I would like to believe IJW learned from that experience and didn't design scum that way. Relying on a repeated mechanic like that turns me away from planning for such.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I didn't vote before to prevent ending the day, so I don't know where you're getting that from. I don't want to see the say end with us voting someone who isn't confirmed scum when we have confirmed scum.
I don't think any of the stuff about wincons has anything to do with you being scum. Remember, I led the push to get ondine to back off your lynch because I thought the grounds for it were bad.
I think you're likely scum because -Rosen seemed unreasonably protective of you, and because you tried to convince InterstellarHobo to out a town power role for no reason. And now you're trying to start a wagon on a low post count player, which should be a pretty low priority when we have live confirmed scum. I'm all for scum hunting, that's why I don't want the day to end yet, but I have the feeling that without some pushback we'll wind up mislynching somebody else today.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sorry, forgot to address Nictis' claim. A town roleblocker would probably not claim for the very obvious reason of not wanting to be a target. But even if Nictis is a roleblocker, we have nothing to confirm him as a town roleblocker. I am still pretty dubious about the "control group" idea.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
ItzNarcotic has already verified that he was roleblocked and I roleblocked him.
The setup thoughts is based on a couple things, Shadell being an Experimental Gunsmith and that being how it worked in IJW's last game being the main factors.
And me not acting in Town's interest here is very easily caught by anyone else claiming to be blocked, or both of the known kills continuing.
Lynching Rosen here allows scum to pick someone to die tonight, someone who is definitely going to be Town, and you're saying that's preferable to what might be a mislynch but is likely to be killing scum?
Not sure I really buy it Meso
Fair point, but as a counterpoint the Gunsmith is a lot more likely to die in the near future if the kill is let loose, and then it doesn't matter.
Except that that alone is not a bad mechanic, is actually a really common one, and wasn't the problem in that setup.
Okay?
I don't see the relevance.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Wait, you don't see the relevance? I feel like it's pretty obvious.
Meso is saying that your claim is unlikely (though I disagree on that point I think)
and that even if you are a roleblocker you may well not have our best interests in mind.
This is directly relevant to whether or not we should follow your direction.
Meso is saying that your claim is unlikely (though I disagree on that point I think)
and that even if you are a roleblocker you may well not have our best interests in mind.
This is directly relevant to whether or not we should follow your direction.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
To clarify, I think I do believe you, but I'm not particularly certain.
I'm not sold on it being a great plan, and since I don't entirely trust you, leaving you in custody of a probably killer for rather dubious reasons doesn't seem wise.
I'm not sold on it being a great plan, and since I don't entirely trust you, leaving you in custody of a probably killer for rather dubious reasons doesn't seem wise.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey, someone finally noticed me again.
Also, for the record, I am on board with Nictis's plan.
Best case, we manage to limit the night kill to 1 person next night and confirm that Rosen is either the SK analogue or the Mafia analogue killer, and we can 'safely' either lynch them or keep roleblocking them until we deal with their support.
Worst case, we get the two deaths we'd have gotten anyway, confirm Rosen is *not* a killing role, and maybe lynch Nictis if it comes out that they didn't RB Rosen as promised. I'm like 90% sure the Test Subjects will have to kill Nictis anyway to win, so...eh. I'm fine with whatever outcome comes.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Let me clarify why I don't see it as relevant then.
I believe that Rosen is the only kill capable member of his faction. This is influenced by both the previous game's mafia (The normal part of it, the one that was well balanced instead of the gimmick of the game) being like that, and Shadell being explicitly an Experimental Gunsmith, which I am assuming doesn't mean that Shadell has a 50/50 chance of getting the wrong result each night.
So I'm known to be a roleblocker, see me blocking ItzNarcotic, and am saying that I can keep Rosen on lockdown. If Rosen manages to kill someone, then it's proof that I didn't block him. Which means you guys have reason to kill me.
Meso is questioning if I'm Town or not while the general consensus is that I'm not. I'm trying to help Town, and he's trying to let Scum kill a confirmed Town.
I'm doing a poor job of clarifying, but me not being Town is of no relevance because the question he is saying is whether or not I would actually follow through with it. Me not following through, with the multiple ways you can immediately see at Day Start, would result in my death.
It feels like Meso is throwing shade as reasoning instead of actually trying to stop Scum.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unless I die of course. That would not be the best thing to happen.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Like... Let's say that I don't have your best interests in mind. (I don't, they just align with mine)
Why do this? What is the downside of this plan, and in what scenario do I not follow through on it?
It just really feels like Meso wants the scum kill to be unchained to me right now, because I really can't see a way that this is to Town's detriment.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
ItzNarcotic claimed to have been roleblocked, then you claimed to be the one who did it. That doesn't prove anything. You might be a roleblocker, you might not. You might be on the same side as town, you might not. You are presuming you know the set up, but you might be wrong.
Let's say we let Rosen live and you don't roleblock them. We lose whoever Rosen kills, whoever the other killer(s) kills, and probably have a mislynch. then the next day we can lynch you or Rosen, lose a couple more townies, and the repeat the next day.
That's a whole lot of trust to put on somebody whose claim is being a member of a third party.
And you don't even have to be intending to screw us. you might get jailed or roleblocked. You might get killed by the SK/other scum during the night. You might be wrong about the set up and the scum can hand off the kill freely.
One fewer scum is one fewer scum.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm also a bit skeptical of the control group idea.
The roles we've had mentioned are:
Test subject
Control group
Independent Variable (and backups)
Unnamed pink role with SK.
Per Nictis' descriptions up till now, control group wins by either living to the end or just when the game ends. The latter is incredibly suspect, which kinda makes me suspect the whole role, particularly when Nictis paraphrases the same exact way each time, but won't give us the actual details (and no one else is claiming control group).
So, with this setup, I think it's fair to say we'd need 9 town/allies to really have town have a shot. 7 town means that those who have no incentive to side with town have a tie to a majority after a single mislynch and that right now we'd be unable to force a lynch even if town all got on the same page after literally one mistake on a D1 lynch.
That leaves 4 unaccounted for, maybe 5, but odd numbers tend to line up easier in terms of game balance.
We know there's 1+ pinks, 1+IVs and 1+ backup IVs. That leaves 2 possible slots open, but that assumes a 2 person scum team with one of them as backup, which feels equally unlikely.
The roles we've had mentioned are:
Test subject
Control group
Independent Variable (and backups)
Unnamed pink role with SK.
Per Nictis' descriptions up till now, control group wins by either living to the end or just when the game ends. The latter is incredibly suspect, which kinda makes me suspect the whole role, particularly when Nictis paraphrases the same exact way each time, but won't give us the actual details (and no one else is claiming control group).
So, with this setup, I think it's fair to say we'd need 9 town/allies to really have town have a shot. 7 town means that those who have no incentive to side with town have a tie to a majority after a single mislynch and that right now we'd be unable to force a lynch even if town all got on the same page after literally one mistake on a D1 lynch.
That leaves 4 unaccounted for, maybe 5, but odd numbers tend to line up easier in terms of game balance.
We know there's 1+ pinks, 1+IVs and 1+ backup IVs. That leaves 2 possible slots open, but that assumes a 2 person scum team with one of them as backup, which feels equally unlikely.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Shadell. Read between the lines, I cannot get more specific about this. This. Is. Paraphrasing.
Give me a bit, I'll write up a better explanation for why locking down a kill is a really good idea and lynching one of the unknowns is more likely to hit scum than having scum kill people. (Honestly that should be explanation enough...)
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Paraphrasing shouldn't have any impact on your specificity unless you actually don't understand your role. This seems like an excuse for your continued vagueness. "Control Group Roleblocker" really sounds like their should be other members of this control group. But there aren't. Your win condition doesn't make any sense, and you are fighting really hard to not lynch scum while promising to do something none of us can possibly confirm.