The Morrsley Village Experiment

[Shadell]

Oops, wasn't ready to post yet:

Anyway, the point I'm making is this: At 2+ IVs and a backup, Nictis could possibly fill the last slot as a control group, at 3 IVs and a backup, the set-up I think is most likely given what we know, Nictis could not possibly be a control group, as no such group would exist. 9 town/2 IVs/1 backup/1 pink makes sense as a set-up in that town can actually afford to mislynch without losing at least once. 8 town is also plausible, but that still leaves room for about exactly 1 possible control group member, which still requires us taking Nictis on a word and basically no confirmation.

We do know for sure that Nictis is not town. As described, Nictis' win-con makes no sense and literally just requires the game to end. Nictis refuses to get more specific, that is, to give town a reason to actually trust him on this

And we can confirm from D1 that Nictis is not town. This adds up to not a lot of reason to trust Nictis.

@Nictis saying you're paraphrasing a thing it's very unlikely anyone could confirm or deny for you and that you refuse to disclose any reason to trust you whatsoever is legitimately not helping your case here. I'm willing to work with you, but you need to actually give us a reason to believe the offer is legit.

Worst case, we get the two deaths we'd have gotten anyway, confirm Rosen is *not* a killing role, and maybe lynch Nictis if it comes out that they didn't RB Rosen as promised. I'm like 90% sure the Test Subjects will have to kill Nictis anyway to win, so...eh. I'm fine with whatever outcome comes.

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This isn't true. -Rosen could be 1 of more than one normal IVs in a team, each of whom can kill. The argument that this isn't the case is highly specific and rests on a game state we have very little evidence to presume exists. At most we could confirm that either Rosen isn't a killer or that the set-up doesn't work that way without having any reason to presume the former over the latter.

In doing so, we'd have passed up a rock solid lynch (and one that shores up two players as townies and confirms powers really) while trusting heavily in an unconfirmed allegedly neutral roleblocker.

 

[Nictis]

Paraphrasing shouldn't have any impact on your specificity unless you actually don't understand your role. This seems like an excuse for your continued vagueness. "Control Group Roleblocker" really sounds like their should be other members of this control group. But there aren't. Your win condition doesn't make any sense, and you are fighting really hard to not lynch scum while promising to do something none of us can possibly confirm.

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Literally any of you can confirm this, and one of you can confirm with GM proof.

The issue is that my win condition is very specific and I can't quote it.

So read this slowly.

I win when the killing stops. Paraphrased.
There are most likely multiple killing sources. Heavy implication.
I do not know if I need to be alive or not to win. Speculation and confusion.

 

[Nictis]

@Nictis saying you're paraphrasing a thing it's very unlikely anyone could confirm or deny for you and that you refuse to disclose any reason to trust you whatsoever is legitimately not helping your case here. I'm willing to work with you, but you need to actually give us a reason to believe the offer is legit.

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I'm sorry, I full claimed and have offered to stop half of the nightkills entirely, and that's not good enough?
I openly stated that if this fails, for any reason, to stop a nightkill then I'm expecting you to kill me is not a reason to think the offer is legit?

I've been repeatedly giving you people my win condition and putting more effort in than I should really care to, and all of you are just going to shade me because I'm not Test Subject?

Fine then.

 

[Nictis]

Meso is trying to get Shadell and Hobo killed, and I'm the one that's not acting in Town's interest.

 

[mesonoxian]

Literally any of you can confirm this, and one of you can confirm with GM proof.

The issue is that my win condition is very specific and I can't quote it.

So read this slowly.

I win when the killing stops. Paraphrased.
There are most likely multiple killing sources. Heavy implication.
I do not know if I need to be alive or not to win. Speculation and confusion.

Click to shrink...

Read this slowly:
I .
Don't.
Believe.
You.

Also that "multiple killing sources" would have been very useful to know Day 1 when we were actually trying to figure out the set up.

I have no idea what you mean by confirming this "with GM proof" but we can't very well force you to actually role block anybody if you decide not to.

You are really pushing this like you know how the set up works, but you don't.

The existence of a gunsmith makes me think the "one killer at a time" idea is wrong.

Meso is trying to get Shadell and Hobo killed, and I'm the one that's not acting in Town's interest.

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I'm trying to get scum killed, and you're trying to prevent it.

 

[mesonoxian]

I'm sorry, I full claimed and have offered to stop half of the nightkills entirely, and that's not good enough?
I openly stated that if this fails, for any reason, to stop a nightkill then I'm expecting you to kill me is not a reason to think the offer is legit?

I've been repeatedly giving you people my win condition and putting more effort in than I should really care to, and all of you are just going to shade me because I'm not Test Subject?

Fine then.

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Lynching you after your team has had another night to kill and we've gotten a guaranteed mislynch doesn't sound great.

 

[mesonoxian]

@Nictis if you think we can reliably hunt down another scum to lynch before end of day, why not roleblock them and lynch Rosen?

If you can't be sure that the person we decide is scum is really the right person to role block, why should we trust they are the right person to lynch?

 

[Nictis]

Also that "multiple killing sources" would have been very useful to know Day 1 when we were actually trying to figure out the set up.

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What, like this?

My win con also makes me heavily suspect that there is at least a killing role about, but it doesn't exactly confirm it.

As said before, it's very clear cut and the earlier mention was paraphrasing.

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Because if you're going to try and shade me over stuff that I've already said multiple times then I'm going to tell you to piss off.

I have no idea what you mean by confirming this "with GM proof" but we can't very well force you to actually role block anybody if you decide not to.

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You have a Watcher. That is GM proof if he cared to check that instead of just relying on the basic checks of "Did kill happen? Did anyone else get roleblocked? If yes to either, Nictis lied."

Lynching you after your team has had another night to kill and we've gotten a guaranteed mislynch doesn't sound great.

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"Guaranteed mislynch" and "another night to kill" are things that don't match up here.

Look, I'm not scum. I'm going to sing that until the day I die. But! If Rosen manages to kill anyone here, then it's proof that I am Scum.

I'm not trying to keep Rosen alive, I'm trying to stop Rosen's group from killing Hobo.

 

[RaptorusMaximus]

...if the Independent Variables have the ability to have more than 1 killing role at a time, why would they only kill 1 person in the first night?

 

[RaptorusMaximus]

That argument makes no sense. You'd expect the Mafia analogues to wait to kill off the town as fast as they possibly can, and if they have multiple killing roles, the why would they only kill one person?

 

[Nictis]

@Nictis if you think we can reliably hunt down another scum to lynch before end of day, why not roleblock them and lynch Rosen?

If you can't be sure that the person we decide is scum is really the right person to role block, why should we trust they are the right person to lynch?

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... Okay, you're putting words in my mouth now that are not matching anything of what I've been saying.

Anyways, let's explain things then!

Rosen is guaranteed to be one of the sources of Night Kills. Correct?
Yes, barring a scum redirector and Rosen actually being a Bodyguard.
Lynching Rosen will mean that someone we don't know will be the Killer, correct?
Most likely, considering previous game mechanics, my own role and win condition, and that Shadell is an Experimental Gunsmith.
If Scum can kill people freely, are they more likely to choose to kill known Town or Potential Scum?
This is wine territory, but considering that the Watcher is known then they're probably going to kill the confirmed/heavy Town.
If we are lynching people, are we going to lynch the known Town or the Potential Scum?
You tell me.

So between letting Scum kill two people tonight, and letting scum kill one person tonight, I'm voting for the latter.

I am also heavily expecting a Vigilante to exist, because that would make my win harder. (Hint, Hint Shadell. Can you figure it out yet?)

 

[Nictis]

We can lynch Rosen, I'm fine with that. I just think that we'd be better served by letting Rosen live long enough that I can stop a night kill.

 

[Nictis]

If Scum can kill people freely, are they more likely to choose to kill known Town or Potential Scum?
This is wine territory, but considering that the Watcher is known then they're probably going to kill the confirmed/heavy Town.
If we are lynching people, are we going to lynch the known Town or the Potential Scum?

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To rephrase this, the trade you are making here @mesonoxian is that the second death among us is definitely going to hit Town instead of probably hitting Scum.

 

[mesonoxian]

What, like this?

Because if you're going to try and shade me over stuff that I've already said multiple times then I'm going to tell you to piss off.

You have a Watcher. That is GM proof if he cared to check that instead of just relying on the basic checks of "Did kill happen? Did anyone else get roleblocked? If yes to either, Nictis lied."

"Guaranteed mislynch" and "another night to kill" are things that don't match up here.

Look, I'm not scum. I'm going to sing that until the day I die. But! If Rosen manages to kill anyone here, then it's proof that I am Scum.

I'm not trying to keep Rosen alive, I'm trying to stop Rosen's group from killing Hobo.

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You're now saying your rolecard told you there were multiple killing roles. You said then it suggested there was probably at least one. These are not equivalent. Either your role card changed, or you are doing a bit more than just paraphrasing it.

So we also lock down our watcher to confirm you haven't stab us in the back. Of course, even if he confirms you did, we've still lost the night. And what if you are wrong about the set up and scum can choose a different killer? Then scum kill IH, you can insist up and down you're town but you'll still get lynched. Then we lose todays chance to lynch scum, get two kills, and then waste tomorrow killing you. And even if it works like you think, you keep them from killing, it does nothing to protect IH or you from the SK. For all we know, there is just the SK, a single IV, and their back up, which means we could spend a long time lynching townies to no benefit, wasting your roleblocking, and having a scum voter in the mix, even if you are 100% right about things.

I mean of course you say you're not scum. So does everybody else including the confirmed scum. It means nothing. But Rosen's team managing to kill proves nothing and would likely introduce a new element of confusion that will waste more time, and likely cost us the game.

... Okay, you're putting words in my mouth now that are not matching anything of what I've been saying.

Anyways, let's explain things then!

Rosen is guaranteed to be one of the sources of Night Kills. Correct?
Yes, barring a scum redirector and Rosen actually being a Bodyguard.
Lynching Rosen will mean that someone we don't know will be the Killer, correct?
Most likely, considering previous game mechanics, my own role and win condition, and that Shadell is an Experimental Gunsmith.
If Scum can kill people freely, are they more likely to choose to kill known Town or Potential Scum?
This is wine territory, but considering that the Watcher is known then they're probably going to kill the confirmed/heavy Town.
If we are lynching people, are we going to lynch the known Town or the Potential Scum?
You tell me.

So between letting Scum kill two people tonight, and letting scum kill one person tonight, I'm voting for the latter.

I am also heavily expecting a Vigilante to exist, because that would make my win harder. (Hint, Hint Shadell. Can you figure it out yet?)

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Your argument has several flaws. We don't know Rosen is one of the sources of night kills. For all we know, the main killer and the back ups all show up as positive and Rosen is another backup. Or maybe you're wrong about the way the nightkill works and we can't count on locking it down.

If we lynch someone, we'll try to hit scum, but that makes several presumptions. One of them is that you aren't scum, and that there are more team members to catch after Rosen.

I suggest we guarantee ourselves a 100% chance of killing scum, by lynching known scum.

To rephrase this, the trade you are making here @mesonoxian is that the second death among us is definitely going to hit Town instead of probably hitting Scum.

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Sure, if you're honest and if you're right. Neither is something I'd want to wager the whole game on.

...if the Independent Variables have the ability to have more than 1 killing role at a time, why would they only kill 1 person in the first night?

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Scum often have the ability to kill one person per night but choose which one of them makes the kill. Nictis is assuming based on one of the Night 1 kills being described as a "backup" that this isn't the case in this game. I don't agree.

 

[Nictis]

Like, let's assume that the Scum have any level of competency here, even if only from following orders left by Rosen.

If we lynch one of the uncertains (The people I mentioned before mostly) then we might be hitting Scum, just by dint of so many others being near-confirmed not to be Scum. Process of Elimination favors us here.
Scum get one night kill and remove one of the people who we know or heavily suspect is Town. The noose tightens on the remaining scum because there's less uncertains to hide among.
We go into the next day having lost one definite Town and possibly having killed the scum we don't know yet. Assuming that nobody killed Rosen in the night.

You're now saying your rolecard told you there were multiple killing roles. You said then it suggested there was probably at least one. These are not equivalent. Either your role card changed, or you are doing a bit more than just paraphrasing it.

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Meso. Read what I am posting.

Every time I've mentioned that I've said that it either heavily implied it or that it heavily suggested it. That's the same thing.

Fuck it, I'm heading off for the night. You're not reading what I'm typing and it's getting aggravating.

If Rosen lives today, I'm blocking him. You have roughly three different ways to confirm if I decide not to do that tomorrow.
If Rosen dies today, Scum are probably going to kill both of Shadell and Hobo if I don't get lucky.

We'll have to deal with the uncertains later anyways, so I don't know why you're pushing the idea that they can't be scum and that letting the scum kill people is a good plan.

 

[Nictis]

I was writing scenarios to explain the three situations that can come from here, but fuck it.

No reason to listen to me, I've only been trying to find the scum and keep people alive.

 

[Nictis]

Scum often have the ability to kill one person per night but choose which one of them makes the kill. Nictis is assuming based on one of the Night 1 kills being described as a "backup" that this isn't the case in this game. I don't agree.

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That's not even any of the reasoning I've said.

 

[Nictis]

... Okay. One last go at it.

 

[mesonoxian]

Like, let's assume that the Scum have any level of competency here, even if only from following orders left by Rosen.

If we lynch one of the uncertains (The people I mentioned before mostly) then we might be hitting Scum, just by dint of so many others being near-confirmed not to be Scum. Process of Elimination favors us here.
Scum get one night kill and remove one of the people who we know or heavily suspect is Town. The noose tightens on the remaining scum because there's less uncertains to hide among.
We go into the next day having lost one definite Town and possibly having killed the scum we don't know yet. Assuming that nobody killed Rosen in the night.

Meso. Read what I am posting.

Every time I've mentioned that I've said that it either heavily implied it or that it heavily suggested it. That's the same thing.

Fuck it, I'm heading off for the night. You're not reading what I'm typing and it's getting aggravating.

If Rosen lives today, I'm blocking him. You have roughly three different ways to confirm if I decide not to do that tomorrow.
If Rosen dies today, Scum are probably going to kill both of Shadell and Hobo if I don't get lucky.

We'll have to deal with the uncertains later anyways, so I don't know why you're pushing the idea that they can't be scum and that letting the scum kill people is a good plan.

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I read what you said. You are framing the information differently than you did on day one. One day one it sounded as if you were unsure there was even one killing faction. Your version today seems to match closer to what we learned last night, that there are multiple killing factions. When I said you were doing more than paraphrasing, that's what I meant. It seems you have reinterpreted the role card on the basis of further information. Or you're making it up.

I was writing scenarios to explain the three situations that can come from here, but fuck it.

No reason to listen to me, I've only been trying to find the scum and keep people alive.

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Look, I don't know if you're really offended or not. If you are, I'm sorry. But think about what you are asking.

You are claiming a role in an apparently unique third faction with win conditions we have to take on faith. You are asking that we trust an insight you are basing on how a past game played means you can lock down the kill and that we trust the unconfirmable claims you've made about your role.

You could be fucking with us.

You could be telling the absolute truth and simply be wrong.

In either case, we wind up in a bad situation.

In the alternative scenario, we lynch scum.

Also, think about the pragmatic concerns. Under your approach, we leave Rosen alive for a couple days, which means close to a real life week. Rosen is pretty much disengaged and has talked about wanting to sub out. That means we wind up with a subbed in play who spends the whole game roleblocked till we lynch them.

I think I've made my position pretty clear.

To restate it plainly, your idea is a good one if everything you claim is true and everything you suppose about the set up is right. I guess it is up to each person to decide if they think the product of those two probabilities is sufficiently high to be better than icing Rosen at EoD and scum hunting for the remainder of Day 2.

 

[mesonoxian]

@Nictis another concern that occurs to me. Presuming Rosen is mafia, why wouldn't the SK just kill you? They are quite likely immune to night kills or resistant anyway, so having the kill locked up just makes their job of killing everybody else harder. they need to eliminate mafia eventually but they benefit from having them kill more people and having more suspivcious people. The only way we could be sure that wouldn't happen is if a Doctor or Bodyguard exists and is willing to cover you exclusively (at which point we have three power roles tied up) or you are the SK (in which case we probably shouldn't trust you.)

 

[Nictis]

You're now saying your rolecard told you there were multiple killing roles. You said then it suggested there was probably at least one. These are not equivalent. Either your role card changed, or you are doing a bit more than just paraphrasing it.

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This is a lie. I said that it heavily implied that there were multiple killing roles. I earlier said that it heavily suggested that there was at least one killing role. Neither of these are me saying that it definitively says there are multiple killing roles, these are the same thing. Note the emphasis placed the first time.

So we also lock down our watcher to confirm you haven't stab us in the back. Of course, even if he confirms you did, we've still lost the night.

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I have explained three different ways for you to confirm if I did or did not do it. It does not require or even suggest that the Watcher actually Watch Rosen, merely that he can.

And what if you are wrong about the set up and scum can choose a different killer? Then scum kill IH, you can insist up and down you're town but you'll still get lynched.

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If I'm wrong about the setup then I will be shocked. There are multiple reasons for why I suspect this to be the way it works, and you flip flop between agreeing and disagreeing with me on it.

I have not been insisting that I am Town. Town has outright stated that it needs me dead, and I'm still doing my best to help Town survive despite that.

Then we lose todays chance to lynch scum, get two kills, and then waste tomorrow killing you.

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Today is likely to result in us lynching Scum regardless, and it's the same choice we'd have to face later on who to lynch either way. This way stops a night kill from hitting Town tonight, and lynching me tomorrow wouldn't be a waste because in this scenario you've set up I'm teaming with the people killing you.

If I don't block Rosen, then you have definitive proof (Again, barring a redirector) that I am Scum. I am the one that revealed this.

And even if it works like you think, you keep them from killing, it does nothing to protect IH or you from the SK.

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It literally removes a scum night kill, meaning that only one Town can die tonight. This means that they can't kill both Hobo and Shadell tonight, and they don't have reason to target me because I'm going to be locked up in blocking Rosen until the Vigilante either shoots him or we lynch him. How does "Removing a scum night kill" not protect Town?

For all we know, there is just the SK, a single IV, and their back up, which means we could spend a long time lynching townies to no benefit, wasting your roleblocking, and having a scum voter in the mix, even if you are 100% right about things.

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A Serial Killer and a two person Mafia with the grand sub role of backup is honestly so heavily town sided that I'm just not considering it. Because that'd be overly bastard towards the Mafia. And IJW has had most of the Bastardry supposedly ironed out, meaning he has attempted to balance the game.

But Rosen's team managing to kill proves nothing and would likely introduce a new element of confusion that will waste more time, and likely cost us the game.

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If we are just going to ignore the variety of things pointing towards them being unable to choose which member does the kill, sure! It proves nothing! It costs us the game (He says, on Day 2)

Your argument has several flaws. We don't know Rosen is one of the sources of night kills. For all we know, the main killer and the back ups all show up as positive and Rosen is another backup. Or maybe you're wrong about the way the nightkill works and we can't count on locking it down.

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We Do know that Rosen is a source of the night kills. He's literally been caught lying about who he visited and has been shown as a killer.

That means he killed someone last night.

If we lynch someone, we'll try to hit scum, but that makes several presumptions. One of them is that you aren't scum, and that there are more team members to catch after Rosen.

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There is, even in your scenarios, at least one more scum to catch. One who isn't related to Rosen, because there's two colors of scum.

If Rosen is blocked and the Pink kill vanishes, we know that Rosen is the Serial Killer and will lynch him immediately to permanently remove a source of night kills, and I'll go back to finding the IV killer.
If I am Scum, then I'm scum that is tied up in roleblocking Rosen instead of roleblocking or killing Town, and that I did it can be immediately confirmed on the start of Day 3 by the lack of other people roleblocked and the lack of one of the kill colors in the death log.

If we lynch Rosen today, we'll still be facing the same people to lynch tomorrow, but either more or the same amount of Town will be dead, or you'll have proof that both me and Rosen are Scum to make up for it. Keeping Rosen alive right now can only either save a Town or prove me to be Scum.

Sure, if you're honest and if you're right. Neither is something I'd want to wager the whole game on.

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1: What part of this would be a lie?
1a: The roleblocker claim? Anyone want to counter claim it? No?
1b: Blocking Rosen? If I don't do it, you'll know.
2: How is this wagering the whole game? It's Day 2.

Scum often have the ability to kill one person per night but choose which one of them makes the kill. Nictis is assuming based on one of the Night 1 kills being described as a "backup" that this isn't the case in this game. I don't agree.

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This is still none of the reasoning I've stated.

Okay, so now that I've pointed out how everything but one piece of your post was bad, can we actually talk about why letting scum kill people is a good plan?

 

[Nictis]

Actually, no. I am tired. I'm going to go piss off now.

 

[Nictis]

Also, think about the pragmatic concerns. Under your approach, we leave Rosen alive for a couple days, which means close to a real life week. Rosen is pretty much disengaged and has talked about wanting to sub out. That means we wind up with a subbed in play who spends the whole game roleblocked till we lynch them.

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... Okay, yeah. This is a good point. Kinda makes me feel bad.

 

[InterstellarHobo]

I hate reading these arguments where communcation fails.

Aside from this discussion, @Nictis , there's one thing that bothers me.

There is no 'spirit of the agreement' or implied requirement in any of the win conditions for this game. If a requirement is not explicitly listed as part of your win condition then it is not required, except as far as practicality would dictate it making your actual win condition harder to achieve. That is all.

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We have this. It's been pointed out to you, though you could easily have missed it before. Even if you did miss it, you could certainly have asked the GM for clarification.
Are you sure your wincondition is still unclear?

 

[mesonoxian]

This is a lie. I said that it heavily implied that there were multiple killing roles. I earlier said that it heavily suggested that there was at least one killing role. Neither of these are me saying that it definitively says there are multiple killing roles, these are the same thing. Note the emphasis placed the first time.

I have explained three different ways for you to confirm if I did or did not do it. It does not require or even suggest that the Watcher actually Watch Rosen, merely that he can.

If I'm wrong about the setup then I will be shocked. There are multiple reasons for why I suspect this to be the way it works, and you flip flop between agreeing and disagreeing with me on it.

I have not been insisting that I am Town. Town has outright stated that it needs me dead, and I'm still doing my best to help Town survive despite that.

Today is likely to result in us lynching Scum regardless, and it's the same choice we'd have to face later on who to lynch either way. This way stops a night kill from hitting Town tonight, and lynching me tomorrow wouldn't be a waste because in this scenario you've set up I'm teaming with the people killing you.

If I don't block Rosen, then you have definitive proof (Again, barring a redirector) that I am Scum. I am the one that revealed this.

It literally removes a scum night kill, meaning that only one Town can die tonight. This means that they can't kill both Hobo and Shadell tonight, and they don't have reason to target me because I'm going to be locked up in blocking Rosen until the Vigilante either shoots him or we lynch him. How does "Removing a scum night kill" not protect Town?

A Serial Killer and a two person Mafia with the grand sub role of backup is honestly so heavily town sided that I'm just not considering it. Because that'd be overly bastard towards the Mafia. And IJW has had most of the Bastardry supposedly ironed out, meaning he has attempted to balance the game.

If we are just going to ignore the variety of things pointing towards them being unable to choose which member does the kill, sure! It proves nothing! It costs us the game (He says, on Day 2)

We Do know that Rosen is a source of the night kills. He's literally been caught lying about who he visited and has been shown as a killer.

That means he killed someone last night.

There is, even in your scenarios, at least one more scum to catch. One who isn't related to Rosen, because there's two colors of scum.

If Rosen is blocked and the Pink kill vanishes, we know that Rosen is the Serial Killer and will lynch him immediately to permanently remove a source of night kills, and I'll go back to finding the IV killer.
If I am Scum, then I'm scum that is tied up in roleblocking Rosen instead of roleblocking or killing Town, and that I did it can be immediately confirmed on the start of Day 3 by the lack of other people roleblocked and the lack of one of the kill colors in the death log.

If we lynch Rosen today, we'll still be facing the same people to lynch tomorrow, but either more or the same amount of Town will be dead, or you'll have proof that both me and Rosen are Scum to make up for it. Keeping Rosen alive right now can only either save a Town or prove me to be Scum.

1: What part of this would be a lie?
1a: The roleblocker claim? Anyone want to counter claim it? No?
1b: Blocking Rosen? If I don't do it, you'll know.
2: How is this wagering the whole game? It's Day 2.

This is still none of the reasoning I've stated.

Okay, so now that I've pointed out how everything but one piece of your post was bad, can we actually talk about why letting scum kill people is a good plan?

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To be clear, I don't think the slight shift in your role claim is an inconsistency, I think it suggests a degree of intentional vagueness.

As to the rest of this, I'm going to answer in general terms because I don't want to compound the spaghetti going on here.

Your claim about how the game works is based on the dead scum from Night One having the description "Backup". I don't know how you can say that isn't part of your reasoning. The whole basis of your plan is the idea that the scum team are one killer and a bunch of backups who inherit the kill power. You support this by saying IJW has used the same mechanic before. Beyond that, I see no reason to believe they can't select who has the kill. It is literally just "that guy was a back up" and "this other game was like that".

Also, we have no proof Rosen has killed. We have evidence they didn't visit Shadell. That tells us SFA about where they actually were last night. For all we know, all the scum test positive to a gunsmith. Or there are two potential killers and a backup. Or the backup would just get whatever other roles the first scum to die would get, not the nightkill. Or Rosen is a ninja miller bodyguard. My point is that there are a lot of assumptions here.

Preventing a town kill would be great if it works. But even if you are telling the truth you can't know for sure it will work.

As for how this could cost us the game, there are currently 10 players. Let's presume there are two mafia and an SK left. We mislynch one today, that's 9. Two die over night, that's seven, now we've got three scum and four town come tomorrow. It isn't hard to see where we lose from there. Even worse is if you're just wrong, not lying. Because then we probably waste a lynch on you, meaning we lose another couple players before we have a chance of hitting scum.

And there is still the problem that the SK (or other scum if Rosen is SK) could just kill you. Then your roleblocking doesn't do anything and we lynched somebody who might or might not be scum instead of somebody who was definitely scum.


I don't think you've made any sort of convincing argument that your guess as to how the nightkill is handled is accurate. I also don't think you've made any convincing argument that we should believe you are especially pro-town. To be clear, I am absolutely not saying you are definitely wrong or definitely lying. I am saying that this involves trusting you more than I think is earned right now.