Important to note as well is that the submarines are easily one of the most beloved rides in the parks. Even hinting at a closure is likely to result in many angry letters landing on your desk. Obviously that wasn't enough to save the WDW version in real life, but it did keep it going for a very long time. And the Disneyland version is of course, still operating, even with slightly changed thematic elements.
The Speedway isn't as popular, but I've still never seen the ride with less than an hour wait time, even when I was in the park at 3am. There's a reason it's survived so long despite being a massive space sink, with generally low throughput and annoying maintenance requirements.
I'm not sure how difficult those would be to disguise into the Disney Magic - they'd certainly have to be more than bare concrete and probably shouldn't break up sight lines around the place too much either I'd think? Disneyland can't be a cityscape.
I'm not sure how difficult those would be to disguise into the Disney Magic - they'd certainly have to be more than bare concrete and probably shouldn't break up sight lines around the place too much either I'd think? Disneyland can't be a cityscape.
They did it in Disneyland, California Adventure used to be the Disneyland Parking Lot, in Walt Disney World there is a less pressing need for it as the Reedy Creek Area is HUGE, also we've kind mitigated parking concerns at WDW by expanding the Monorail.
Some of these movies would probably have been better then what we actually ended up getting. I particularly notice Kingdom of the Sun, which sounds like a straight up better (and less cringe inducing) version of Emperor's New Groove.
Edit: Oh, and the sequel to Roger Rabbit. Had that succeeded it would have been awesome, but I think I remember that there where several very good reasons that failed.
To be honest, I much rather prefer Emperor's New Groove to the Kingdom of the Sun plot. It is much more fun that way than the more generic way the Kingdom version would have gone. Plus, Kuzco is one of the better male protagonists Disney has had.
Ok... First, DisneyWorld's maps of the 1980s SUCK... They had to have deliberately drawn Dumbo in the wrong place, and forced perspective way too much. I tried to get all the major rides, and took my best guess on the Submarines since there is little to no remains of them in the park today on Satellite view, unless Ariel's Grotto is the old back ground. Also for any would be plans to knock out the Tommorrowland Stage, and expand south, there's maintenance sheds there, which I doubt we can easily move. Oh and I'm not going to even try to draw the path of the Jungle Cruise River.
Oh, and the infobox isn't there to coverup the bus loading area so I don't have to draw it... nope... not at all.
-[X] Lille, France: No park size limit. Few concerns about local culture. Land here is cheap and plentiful, but that's because of a general economic downturn in the area. Climate is generally favorable, with averages above freezing year round.
Lille wins by a very solid margin. The next update will be out in about an hour or so, as I try to stop from shaking my fist in Bob Iger's general direction.
Amazing as usual, permanent +10 to planning rolls in the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World with an additional +20 to the next 4 planning rolls in the park.
Vote closed earlier, but for people just looking at threadmarks here's the results of the vote anyway!
-[] Lille, France: No park size limit. Few concerns about local culture. Land here is cheap and plentiful, but that's because of a general economic downturn in the area. Climate is generally favorable, with averages above freezing year round.
The Results said:
-[X] Tomorrow's Tomorrowland: The future just isn't what it used to be, and never has that been more apparent than Tomorrowland. It's time for a major redesign of this section of the park, in order to keep it from becoming wildly outdated. You have Frontierland for that. {PLANNING - 4} {CONSTRUCTION - 15}
DC: 15 per success, requires 30 successes. Currently: 11/30 successes, +5 to rolls.
Benefits: Automatic refurbishment of all rides in Tomorrowland, with updates to bring them in line with a more modern look at the future. May replace up to 3 rides in Tomorrowland with no chance of PR hit, does not count towards yearly ride replacement limit. May build 1 new ride in Tomorrowland, does not count towards yearly ride build limit. Massive PR boost. +5 to Eisner/Disney relationship. One ride replacement or the new ride must be Star Tours.
You still have some trouble figuring this out until Roy and Tony get involved. Roy helps by talking about some of his uncle's original ideas, even going so far as to occasionally pitch in some notes where he thinks they'd help. Tony is glad to have the chance to bring up his old plans for Discovery Bay, a land that would have been an alternate future based on Victorian-Era science fiction. Well, mostly Jules Verne, since that's what you have the rights to, but still. Looking over everything, you think you've got enough ideas and plans sketched out to make something special. The only question now, of course, is exactly how you want to go about this… Continued in "Tomorrow's Tomorrowland, part 1"
A few weeks later, you and Roy were back in the meeting room, this time with Tony and maps of Tomorrowland at the California park. There's bits of concept art from several different aesthetics haphazardly pinned up to the walls, and Tony is examining a technical sheet of what looks like some of the Star Tours designs. You look back down at the map of the current Tomorrowland, and idly crumple up the nearly useless guest map of the area before chucking it into the trash.
"Alright, what do we have?" You say.
Tony and Roy share a glance before Roy clears his throat. "As a member of the board, I've been asked to convey the message that a fresh coat of paint, some basic updates, and one or two replacements could tide the area over for another decade or so." You stare at him. "Yeah, I'm not a fan of the idea either. But a quick and dirty job might let us focus on some other areas in the upcoming year." He looks to the side. "Like building new hotels in Florida, since all of ours there are booked through next year already."
"Really?" You knew that park attendance was up, but you'd been more focused on getting Animated Adventures finished and picking up after the hurricane than keeping track of exact numbers.
"Yes, Mike. Don't be surprised if the board asks you to start some major projects over in Florida." He looks over at Tony. "But I think Tony has a couple of designs for us?"
Tony nods, shuffling papers around until he comes up with two vastly different pieces of art. "Alright, so, there's two major overhauls I was thinking of, Tomorrowland 2055 and Discoveryland." He puts down the concept art with what looks like a bunch of Jules Verne inspired attractions on it to focus on the one with what looks like a sci-fi metropolis full of various different aliens roaming the land. "Tomorrowland 2055 is basically an intergalactic spaceport theme, with a second level added to the land consisting of restaurants and shops."
He puts down the main piece of concept art to bring several other pieces over, all following the same general style. "The peoplemover would be updated to act as a functioning transit system, with additional walkways, bridges, escalators, and so on added throughout the land. I think this theme would also fit right in with Star Tours, as an intergalactic hub would be perfect for the sort of leisure flights that the ride is advertising in-character."
He pauses for a moment. "But I think I might be getting ahead of myself. The story for the land goes along the lines of, we were digging up ground to make the new Tomorrowland, and we uncovered these giant glowing crystals." He holds up a sketch showing the new entrance to tomorrowland, with lighted rock formations. "Those crystals turned out to have been long buried beacons left on Earth by an ancient alien race, and once revealed, they attracted the attention of the whole galactic community." Another sketch, this time of the central Rocket Jets tower, redone with a new paint scheme and ride facade. "Tomorrowland turned out to be the perfect place for the aliens to set up their interstellar port, and the whole area would essentially be a city of the stars, with alien ships and shops all over the land." He hands a couple of sketches to you and Roy.
"Well it certainly sounds and looks amazing. All this fits in original scope outlined in the proposal?" You ask.
"It should, barring any major delays or problems. Most of the actual designs use what's already there as a starting point." Tony responds.
"So what were your planned replacements for this one?" asks Roy.
"Starting with Star Tours, I was thinking about having it replace Adventure Through Inner Space." says Tony. "It's one of our least popular offerings in the land, and it doesn't really offer too much." He starts moving through his pile of sketches. "Beyond that, I wanted to have CircleVision updated with an animatronic show called Timekeeper, where a mad scientist sends a robot back in time to get the full story of human civilization." He hands you and Roy even more sketches, most of which are concept art for the rethemed or new rides. "Space Mountain stays, of course, maybe a new paint job at most. The Carousel Theater would have America Sings replaced by Plectu's Intergalactic Revue, which would be an animatronic show featuring multiple different alien bands. Mission to Mars would ideally be replaced with a show based off the movie Alien."
"Alien?" You say. "Isn't that the horror movie from '79?"
"Yes," Tony replies. "It'd be a good chance to bring in some more mature audiences, and the basic story is that some fool from a science group had gotten a hold of one of the creatures and wanted to study it."
"What about Autopia and the Submarine Voyage?" You ask.
"I hadn't really given too much thought to those, to be honest." Tony says. "They're sort of off to their own side, we could maybe separate them out of Tomorrowland if we wanted?"
Roy looks at the sketches in front of him. "I could see that. What's this a sketch of?" He holds up a drawing of many long-limbed ethereal figures walking down what appears to be Main Street.
"Oh, that's a new nighttime parade I was thinking of tying into the land, the Lightkeepers. There'd be an announcement about a UFO flying over the park before the parade starts, and they'd go from Main Street to Tomorrowland." Tony shuffles a few more maps around. "I think I've got the route marked off on one of these…"
"What if we were putting in Star Tours as a new ride, without replacing Adventures Through Inner Space?" You ask.
"I mean, you'd probably need to find somewhere to put it first." Tony says. "There's some backlot to the west of Space Mountain that might work, or you could maybe more the Grand Canyon Diorama behind the Jungle Cruise and put the new building there, maybe add some interaction with the train." He looks down at the map in front of him. "Or you could rip up some of the Autopia track, put the ride in the middle of all that. Would mess with my idea of sort of adding it and Submarine Voyage to Fantasyland, though."
"Do you have any of the cuff ideas for what we could replace Adventures Through Inner Space with if we did that?" You say.
"Honestly?" Tony shrugs. "Adventures Through Outer Space, maybe? Some sort of tour of the solar system? I'd need to think of something." He rubs his chin. "Although, if you wanted to keep Autopia in Tomorrowland, I could see retheming the cars and adding in some billboards for some of the new shops and shows. 'Come see Plectu's Intergalactic Revue, the best show this arm of the Milky Way' and what not."
"Okay. So what was your other idea?" You vaguely recall it being something to do with Jules Verne's works, but the particulars escape you.
"Ah! So, back in the seventies, I think, I was working on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, and we were looking at some ideas of what to do with the old Nature's Wonderland sets. Obviously nothing came of the ideas then, but essentially I was thinking of a sort of alternate history world where the sci-fi of Jules Verne became the reality of today instead of what we actually got. This neatly sidesteps the outdating of Tomorrowland by simply being a completely different Tomorrow." He pauses. "Well, and the name would have been Discovery Bay, so no explicit mention of Tomorrow."
"And you think we should replace Tomorrowland with this?" You question.
"It's a good way to make sure the land doesn't ever need another truly huge overhaul for outdating reasons, I think." Tony says. "Anyway, we could retheme Submarine Voyage to be in line with the WDW version, matching Verne's work. The Autopia would be converted into a river rapids ride, sharing some of the lagoon space, with a Nautilus themed underwater restaurant that looked in on both rides in the area as well. Adventures Through Inner Space would be replaced with an Island at the Top of the World attraction, flying across various landscapes. Mission to Mars would become the Fireworks Factory instead, where guests shot simulated fireworks at various targets."
"That sounds… a bit dangerous?" You aren't sure how you'd even get that to work.
"We might need to look into that a bit more, I'm not sure how all the specifics would come together on it." Tony admits, rubbing the back of his neck. "But to continue, the Carousel Theater would be host to Professor Marvel's Gallery, which would be sort of similar to the Imagination Pavilion over in EPCOT Center." He starts handing out some more of his sketches. "The skyway would get a facelift to Professor Marvel's Balloon Descent, and the monorail would be similarly rethemed. Space Mountain would probably get a facelift to do with 'From the Earth to the Moon,' I think, Rocket Jets would probably get a new paint job and be similarly rethemed, and the people mover would get rethemed around magnetic propulsion, tying into Spark Gap, a new coaster that would probably have to take up most of the current backlot in the area."
"That's… an awful lot of reworking, Tony." You say. "Also, where does Star Tours fit into this?"
"It's a bit outside the original project scope, yeah." He says. "But we wouldn't need to update the area like this again, probably. The massive changes would probably also bring in a good chunk of crowds." Tony looks to the side. "Also Star Tours would probably just go in a building at the edge of the land? I hadn't really thought too much about that part, to be honest."
Roy speaks up then, looking between you and Tony. "I'm not sure how I feel about what would be such a big change to my uncle's original idea for the park, but I can tell that this was definitely well thought out. Even if we don't use the Discoveryland plans for this, I think we'll have a good chance to use them in the near future." Oh, right, you think, the new park in France. A Jules Verne land would probably go over well there, wouldn't it? "Hell, with how well the parks have been doing lately it might be worth revisiting the idea of putting in Discovery Bay behind Big Thunder." Tony looks immensely happy at that. "But for right now, though, let's take a lunch break and get back to this once we've eaten." You can all agree to that.
-[] Keep the theming the same: With new updates to bring the land back in line with the original vision, you can put off a truly major overhaul for another decade or two. Will eventually be outdated again, but also require less work and money. +5 Board Approval, -5 successes needed to complete. Star Tours will replace a ride, and no new ride may be built.
-[] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[] Discoveryland: Tony's brought out the old plans he had for a land that would go behind Frontierland, based entirely off of Jules Verne's works. It neatly sidesteps the issue of going outdated by presenting an alternate future, one that we won't ever see in the real world. It would take a ton of work, though, and altering such a core part of the park's history might make some fans upset. -10 Board Approval, +10 successes needed to complete. May add two new rides instead of just one (one of which will probably be Spark Gap, a new coaster, with the other being Star Tours somewhere slightly removed from the actual land itself), and replace every attraction.
AN: I spent a good chunk of time today ranting about the loss of Illuminations at EPCOT and generally shaking my fist in Bob Iger's direction, sadly. This vote is open for 48 hours, and if you have particular write-ins, you're welcome to improve upon any aspect of the presented plans that you think of. For more details on the two major overhauls, I'd suggest looking up Tomorrowland 2055 and Discovery Bay Disneyland, as that will also turn up a good chunk of the concept art for those ideas as well. On top of that, though, Tomorrowland 2055 specifically did see some use, in the WDW overhaul of Tomorrowland. There hasn't been a major update to the WDW Tomorrowland since then, so it still mostly matches the aesthetic that 2055 is going for. Looking up the WDW Tomorrowland would also give you a pretty good idea of what that plan looks like. EuroDisney doesn't have a Tomorrowland, since it instead has a Discoveryland based off of Jules Verne. Looking at that will give you a pretty good idea of what that plan looks like.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
I really want to do that Discoveryland idea, but we should save it for a different park. I know Discoveryland historically went to the Paris park as Roy alludes to in this chapter, so maybe in Lille.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
So does anyone have anything original they want to write-in for this idea? Best to speak now while the post is still fresh, since people usually stop paying attention after their immediate vote (unless it is the QM talking).
[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[K] Why Not Both?: Tomorrowland will be updated as in the Tomorrowland 2055 proposal. The park will also be expanded so that Discoveryland can be built at a later date.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
-[X] Tomorrowland 2055: Tony's first idea, within your original scope for the project, turning Tomorrowland into an intergalactic spaceport. Would add a second level to the land consisting of shops and restaurants, and would be a theme to last for decades to come. Will follow initial outlay for project scope.
