Game of the Year: A Naruto Quest

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw
-[X] You were told by someone whose approval you once looked for that you make everything actively worse just by existing.

Somerandomdude said:

I'll say it again, we are in a magical army. I don't think it's a bad idea to see if you'll break before she takes us out on a real mission where breaking could get our friends killed.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I'll concede It's a good idea to know you have soldiers that won't break. But if it means having kids (who may not actually go through with the whole magic army thing) break and being adversely affected, it's not a very appealing proposition. Especially when there are other tests that can substitute.

NotAGayFish said:

I'll concede It's a good idea to know you have soldiers that won't break. But if it means having kids (who may not actually go through with the whole magic army thing) break and being adversely affected, it's not a very appealing proposition. Especially when there are other tests that can substitute.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The alternative is letting those same kids break in the field and get themselves or other people killed. So either she sees we won't break or we break now and only get mental scars instead of death

Somerandomdude said:

The alternative is letting those same kids break in the field and get themselves or other people killed.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yeah neither proposition is exactly promising, but I feel like you're discounting the mental preparation and maturation that training to be a skilled killer will give you. In my head those same kids were never going to reach further than chunin anyway, but at least then they would of had some training, some time to let them mentally mature and be better equipped at handling mentally demanding tasks. Plus if a problem comes about which can evoke so much fear chances are, you were fucked to begin with. At least they'll have a little more discipline and fortitude to get a bit further before they die.

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were told by someone whose approval you once looked for that you make everything actively worse just by existing.

Katsuragi said:

@Vesvius - As requested. Dai doesn't fucking know.

Spoiler

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Much obliged. I shall meme it instantly. Take 130 XP.

Also, have a current tally everyone.

@Vesvius - 130 to travel.

NotAGayFish said:

Yeah neither proposition is exactly promising, but I feel like you're discounting the mental preparation and maturation that training to be a skilled killer will give you. In my head those same kids were never going to reach further than chunin anyway, but at least then they would of had some training, some time to let them mentally mature and be better equipped at handling mentally demanding tasks. Plus if a problem comes about which can evoke so much fear chances are, you were fucked to begin with. At least they'll have a little more discipline and fortitude to get a bit further before they die.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Not really. Keep in mind that Genin under a Jounin-sensei are expected to be Chunin eventually.

Thats what the tests are about, a breaking point test on their weaknesses. Each Jounin has their own most valued trait to test on.

Take Kakashi, why the Bell Test? He's assigned Genin of great mental strength, great potential and horrible teamwork(three different brands of antisocial in canon and here). The make-or-break for his team is whether they can even extend that shred of trust, leadership or teamwork against an individually overwhelming opponent. Granted, that they failed the first part by not seeing through Kakashi's deception and not preparing anything probably meant they got a slightly softballed second stage
If they can't they pretty much have to flunk out, too much talent to be trusted to the fast track. At the same time if you throw OUR test at Team Seven...frankly it won't do shit.
Inverted, that test is pointless on our team. Kiba is Inuzuka and they naturally tend towards teamwork since its their Clan Thing to build teamwork between man and dog. Mariko is socially adept enough to figure out the teamwork test and game it. She's done it all her school life. Daisuke...would grin and bear it. And all three/four of them are strong combatants, so a combat test isn't useful.

I actually suspect the second stage of the test came in harder for us because we basically perfect-run the teamwork portion. We might have gotten a different illusion if our Interesting Fact included being blooded as a child. They should have been confronted with petty childhood terrors or irrational phobias.

And keep in mind, Kurenai is an expert in dial-a-yield genjutsu. It'd test our mental resilience RIGHT up to the breaking point and stop. Which it did right there didn't it?

Somerandomdude said:

The alternative is letting those same kids break in the field and get themselves or other people killed.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

NotAGayFish said:

Yeah neither proposition is exactly promising, but I feel like you're discounting the mental preparation and maturation that training to be a skilled killer will give you. In my head those same kids were never going to reach further than chunin anyway, but at least then they would of had some training, some time to let them mentally mature and be better equipped at handling mentally demanding tasks. Plus if a problem comes about which can evoke so much fear chances are, you were fucked to begin with. At least they'll have a little more discipline and fortitude to get a bit further before they die.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Eh sure, my whole point is I can see why she did it and don't disapprove of her actions. Not really sure if I can take the conversation further

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were told by someone whose approval you once looked for that you make everything actively worse just by existing.
Y'Know weird thing is this is one of my personal biggest fears.

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were attacked by your childhood protector who tried to kill you before you entered the Academy, and this time he was going to finish the job.

Kurenai is best sensei.

veekie said:

Not really. Keep in mind that Genin under a Jounin-sensei are expected to be Chunin eventually.

Thats what the tests are about, a breaking point test on their weaknesses. Each Jounin has their own most valued trait to test on.

Take Kakashi, why the Bell Test? He's assigned Genin of great mental strength, great potential and horrible teamwork(three different brands of antisocial in canon and here). The make-or-break for his team is whether they can even extend that shred of trust, leadership or teamwork against an individually overwhelming opponent. Granted, that they failed the first part by not seeing through Kakashi's deception and not preparing anything probably meant they got a slightly softballed second stage
If they can't they pretty much have to flunk out, too much talent to be trusted to the fast track. At the same time if you throw OUR test at Team Seven...frankly it won't do shit.
Inverted, that test is pointless on our team. Kiba is Inuzuka and they naturally tend towards teamwork since its their Clan Thing to build teamwork between man and dog. Mariko is socially adept enough to figure out the teamwork test and game it. She's done it all her school life. Daisuke...would grin and bear it. And all three/four of them are strong combatants, so a combat test isn't useful.

I actually suspect the second stage of the test came in harder for us because we basically perfect-run the teamwork portion. We might have gotten a different illusion if our Interesting Fact included being blooded as a child. They should have been confronted with petty childhood terrors or irrational phobias.

And keep in mind, Kurenai is an expert in dial-a-yield genjutsu. It'd test our mental resilience RIGHT up to the breaking point and stop. Which it did right there didn't it?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The chunin comment was more about how regardless of talent if you don't have the natural mental toughness you weren't likely to ever get promoted to jonin. Assuming they don't die too quikly they'll probably just stay as chunin like iruka and mizuki.

The fact that we didn't see any other canon genin test makes thinking of appropriate tests really annoying. I've always looked at the academy test as testing as whether you have the appropriate individual skill, while the genin test would mostly test one's teamwork and ability to work towards a greater goal. I say that simply because we only saw the bell test, it may have been the only test, it may not have been.

Plus you say greatwill team 7 had great will power but a) there weren't really any previous test's to attest to this (There are plenty of loudmouths and people desperate for attention that fold really easily), b) I don't really think sakura fits that description at the start of the series(she fainted during her test, twice if I'm remembering correctly. Once from seeing dying sasuke and once from headless sasuke.)

The main difficulty with the bell test was that you had to overcome a) your ego and dislike for your team mates, b) All three had to work together and stick together even though "only two are allowed to pass".
I've honestly felt like people just made the genin test more complicated than it needed to be, simply because team 7 were so shit at their own exam and we never saw any other test.

You say dial-a-yield but the genjustu is formed completely from your subconscious they have no real input on what's created, how do you scale fear, because this doesn't directly force fear, it does so indirectly. With normal genjutsu you directly effect what they percieve thus you can dial-a-yield thus I don't think she was testing to our breaking point. It was simply do you break under you're greatest fear.

NotAGayFish said:

You say dial-a-yield but the genjustu is formed completely from your subconscious they have no real input on what's created, how do you scale fear, because this doesn't directly force fear, it does so indirectly. With normal genjutsu you directly effect what they percieve thus you can dial-a-yield thus I don't think she was testing to our breaking point. It was simply do you break under you're greatest fear.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

If this was actually some powder or potion, its likely you can control the dosage or modify the ingredients so its stronger or weaker. If this is chakra, you still might be able to control how much terror it induces by amping or dulling sensitivity to fear, even if you're not directly controlling what the victim is seeing. Course, this is all speculation.

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were told by someone whose approval you once looked for that you make everything actively worse just by existing.

Honestly, while Tokei tried to kill us, I don't think we fear him or someone like him, we are strong, and even if we met someone stronger there is still some way we could deal with the situation in most cases.

As for the whole "The world isn't real" thing, honestly while it may have been fiction to us in our previous life and while we have some tidbits of meta-knowledge, it doesn't really seem like Daisuke thinks this, he's made friends with people who were supposed to only be characters in a story sure, but he also discovered that they have a deeper personality than what was shown there, he's also made friends with a lot of people who weren't part of the original story and who certainly seem to be just as real as him, at some point you have to wonder, if a simulation is good enough to seem real, feel real and be indistinguishable from reality.....is it really fair to call it fake?

But the greatest problem with the above option is actually one of the reason I think the option I chose makes the most sense, if Daisuke thought the world wasn't real he wouldn't care as much as he does about it, if something were to happen to Ino or Mother or one of his other friends....would he really be unaffacted by it?

I don't think so, in fact I think it would be really easy to assume that if something DID happen to them it could be considered our fault, by our very existance, the world we're living in is certain to be different from the one we still have some memories of, there is no guaranteed Good Ending here.

Because our presence has already caused the butterfly effect to occur and go out of control, and if something goes wrong and the world goes to shit, by say, exploding in another worldwide conflict, Daisuke could very well think he is responsible at least in some way, it's not necessarily true (Vesvius seems to have changed some things with regards to the world that we definitely didn't cause like more competent Jonin) but Daisuke could certainly be very afraid that it is his fault if the world ends up worse than he remembered it being in his memories.

NotAGayFish said:

You say dial-a-yield but the genjustu is formed completely from your subconscious they have no real input on what's created, how do you scale fear, because this doesn't directly force fear, it does so indirectly. With normal genjutsu you directly effect what they percieve thus you can dial-a-yield thus I don't think she was testing to our breaking point. It was simply do you break under you're greatest fear.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

As Greatest Fears go we remained pretty in control the whole time. It DEFINITELY could have hammered that fear harder. Trivially even.

That it didn't says the technique was deliberately held back or its maximum isn't mindbreaking

Pittauro said:

If being a gamer was reason enough, this paragraph would be useless.

We can certainly reach these ranks, but we'll need some narrative reason.

Example: we might get legendary ninjutsu by studying the notes (if there are any) of the second hokage Tobirama, by creating several High ranked jutsu, or by learning multiple elements.

A decent reason to get above elite travel might simply be having traveled in all kind of different environments, from cities to forests to desert. (With Legendary for having travelled literally ANYWHERE, and mythic for dimensional travel)

A mastery of water jutsu could explain an affinity for swimming, or might supplement our ability. (thus justifying above elite).

Discovering a counter for Tsukuyomi could be the justification for legendary/mythic genjutsu. And so on

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

a counter for the tsukuyomi should easily be mythic.

firefrog600 said:

a counter for the tsukuyomi should easily be mythic.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Mythical/Divine Perception and Mythical or Divine Genjutsu. It matter not how good you are at using or breaking out of Genjutsu if you fall into the illusion.

Katsuragi said:

Kurenai is best sensei.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

HERETIC! ENEMY OF STRAW-KUN!

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were attacked by your childhood protector who tried to kill you before you entered the Academy, and this time he was going to finish the job.

Knight-Radiant said:

Now we have to share something meaningful or fail. Have to open up to your team and trust them with something that can harm us.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

But we're being asked to trust something personal to a team we don't get on with and a Sensei who just actively harmed us. Trust is earned and built up, this is just blatant manipulation. Putting us in a pass or fail situation directly after mental trauma where we're vulnerable to coercion. It's effective but the method ruins trust more than it builds it up in my opinon.

Knight-Radiant said:

Builds trust, and respect. Solid teambuilding exercise

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

How does it build trust and respect? Mariko just rolled away vomiting from whatever she saw, the only feeling I think I'd have in response to that would be pity.

Whatever their fears were will make us know them better. That's all. It will get Mariko and Kiba out of the mental boxes we've put them in and get us to give them fresh slate,

I suppose it means we can trust them to stand their ground even when afraid?

But honestly I think that's a fairly low bar and it doesn't really affect our respect for them.

veekie said:

Inverted, that test is pointless on our team. Kiba is Inuzuka and they naturally tend towards teamwork since its their Clan Thing to build teamwork between man and dog. Mariko is socially adept enough to figure out the teamwork test and game it. She's done it all her school life. Daisuke...would grin and bear it. And all three/four of them are strong combatants, so a combat test isn't useful.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

If our teamwork and combat ability was good enough to get the job done then that should have been enough.

[X] Answer truthfully. You'll tell everyone what you saw.
-[X] You were in a world where nothing around you was real. A world where maybe you aren't even real.

Usernames said:

Mythical/Divine Perception and Mythical or Divine Genjutsu. It matter not how good you are at using or breaking out of Genjutsu if you fall into the illusion.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Why I dont think thats how it works if you have anyone of those you should be able to break out of it as its likely the requirement.

By the way Gais got to have legendary taijutsu right? As he is likely the best at it in the series right? open the eight gate and goes into mythic level speeds right guys?

[X] You refuse to answer. Some things must stay private.

This should be a lesson for Daisuke to learn now. Never ever let your guard down ever. Not to your allies, not to your family and not even if you are by yourself in your home in the village.

Being a Ninja means living a life of deceit and deceptions.

I do agree with Pryoz that Kunerai took it too far in the test exam. Even if we tell what happened in the genjutsu, it just builds mistrust with the teacher and builds no real trust with the other teammates cause they were FORCED to expose their greatest fears or else cripple their ninja career to mediocrity.

They may "unite" over this misfortune but honestly they would rather forget it ever happened and never talk about it again. or God Forbid use it against us.

Hilarious they talk about them being your best friends but we never seen Kurenai or Hana or Anko or most named ninjas in the village teammates that aren't the sannin or team 7 under Minato or Sarutobi/Danzo/That lady teammate.

And most of those friendships fell apart horrifically or their comrades died over time OR some teammates died and some retire from being a ninja, thus the survivor, they gone to another team where the bonds aren't as close (Itachi).

Or maybe...just maybe not every person who in a jounin team are buddies to the end of their lives.