From Stone to the Stars

Travisplo · Jul 12, 2018

MrGazzer said:
I mean.

We do have three leaders.

Three Holy Orders.

I for one welcome our burgeoning Theocracy

And our Holy Orders are all warriors, or at least, able to do Martial tasks... So a theocracy with a strong martial tradition, as well as an intellectual one? Hmmmmmm... It might actually be something to consider, especially considering the main value that's evolved over the game being a spiritual one. And that the religious authority is the People, for the most part... It would make total sense. And not be that horrible, I don't think.

Sol Zagato · Jul 13, 2018

We did just have our warriors form groups to pass down training. Does that have a similar effect on holy orders? They were already doing something like that.

(What was the name of those Greek groups that would fight together then socialize together during peacetime?)

wingstrike96 · Jul 13, 2018

Redium said:
The Mountain Clans were vacuuming up refugees left, right, and center. This allowed them to clear more and more ground, putting more of their land under cultivation or hunting. This was actually the exact wrong thing to do, though. The soil in the mountains is extremely thin; their aggressive horticulture and gathering damaged the soil further.

What do they even plant up there?

Redium · Jul 15, 2018

[X] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[X] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen. -> Phylai Warfare
[X] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.

With the last of his affairs in order, Priit bid his family goodbye and headed to the west. In his absence, he was confident that things would be handled. Alloo had been left in charge of those returning north to aid her people. The delegation sent was ultimately small, but even a hundred extra pairs of hands would go far for the greatly diminished tribe.

Other supplies had been organized and set aside for the Mountain Clans. A mix of simple corn, rice, and salted meat, they were very well received by the People's new southern neighbours. Once a moon, they would come up from their island on the Valge River; every member of the troop was old, ancient and wizened. All of them were silent when they looked upon the People, struck by a quiet awe.

It was eerie.

It also only occurred when the elders came to pick up supplies. When traders from the Fingers stopped in with them on their way to the Island Makers, the Mountain Clans were happy to talk and invited the traders to sup with them for the evening, plying their own few wares in turn. There wasn't much that the Mountain Clans could offer, but they occasionally turned up stones of lapis lazuli or intricately carved stoneware. Everything that they had was exchanged for more food, salt and other necessities and used in turn to fuel the growth of their settlements.

Their places were small, haphazard things, but there was one interesting aspect; how they built. The Mountain Clans dwelt in strange houses that seemed to float above the ground instead of the traditional longhouses used by the People or other lowlander tribes. Their dwellings were made of cut and stacked timbers, shaped at the ends so that they would hold together while any gaps were packed with moss. Instead of their home's living area being on the ground — as was sensible — the Mountain Clansmen built raised platforms into their homes. It meant that the roof had to be much higher, but it kept the main chamber out of the snow and off of the cold ground in the middle of winter.

It was a tradition of building that was utterly alien to the People. As neighbours, they were quiet; their strange ways were set aside as mere curiosities.

Not all neighbours could be such, however, Priit acknowledged. The Northlands had been hostile once and the lands south of the Peace Builders were seldom peaceable at all.

That fact would change.

In Priit's wake, the People slowly gathered in dribs and drabs, forming up as droplets of water would turn into mighty rivers. It was a grim mood that overtook the warriors as the moved in the direction of the dying sun. The People marched to war yet again. All but the youngest of warriors remembered the conflict with the Northlands. It was a brutal and bloody time. Many had been cut down like wheat before ever reaching their prime. Others had bathed in so much blood that it seemed to seep into their souls. They cracked, laughing madly while chasing the Northlanders off into their forests. When they eventually returned, it was a smiling corpses dancing atop an ivory tusk.

Above it all, the spirits danced in lights of green and purple. The Coloured Winds were familiar to the People, not something that they saw every night, but common enough that only the smallest had yet to see them. The waxed and waned, gusting constantly across a back drop of stars, as was the way of the spirits; showing pleasure and displeasure in ways that were unknowable. There was a pattern there, the People knew, just not one that they could see. It made many nervous to see the work of the spirits be so obvious, but impossibly inscrutable.

When the Horned Riders that followed the People looked up at the Coloured Winds, they responded with excitement. To the Northlands, the Coloured Winds were a constant in their lives. Every night, they kept watch over their tribe and guarded them through the endless nights of winter. For those over looking guardians to disappear, it was unnatural. The fact that the spirits kept watch over the warriors, even as they moved far south of their traditional range, excited many. They would be protected, the Horned Riders promised.

At Crystal Lake, Priit ordered a stop for a quarter moon, just enough time for the last stragglers from the People's greatest settlement to file in. Warriors were normally dispersed, spread around the population to respond to dangerous animals or violent bandits. Concentrating force was deeply unusual, it simply left too much unprotected. It was often better to cover more ground, to slide into weak points and cut off the enemy before they could reach vulnerable settlements.

It didn't have to be that way, Priit realized. Things could be done differently... if they were done correctly. That would require organization however, and new ways of thinking. Ways that were just out of grasp, on the tip of Priit's tongue, but still unknown.

He would need to speak with someone who knew the subject better than him and that was a very short list. One with only a single name.

"I didn't expect that this was how we would last meet," Priit said. He'd found Aeva laid up in bed inside her longhouse. The old woman reeked of death. Her glassy eyes and cheeks were sunken and flesh was stretched paper thin across all of her bones. She must have lost a quarter of her weight from the last time he'd seen her.

"And what was your expectation?" she finally whispered.

Ignoring the few ever present guards, Priit slowly withdrew an obsidian knife from his belt. The volcanic glass was over six inches in length and sharpened to a prismatic edge. It was a beautiful knife, far more so than any weapon the People would normally make; the jaw of a wolf formed the base of the hilt underneath a loving wrapping of leather strips. "I fashioned this dagger when I was nineteen-years-old. Working with the pine resin glue to bind everything together, I burned myself at least three times. A careless caress along the edge was enough to cut my flesh right down to the bone."

Aeva said nothing. She simply stared at the beautiful knife resting gently on the ground.

"I never had occasion to use it," Priit said. "Fighting against the Northlands required spears and arrows. Something with reach to counter the enemy's advantage in speed. I hear in the west, in Hill Guard, they carry great maces with round shaped rocks for heads. Each has enough weight and heft so that it can break through the wooden armour so favoured by the Peace Builders and their neighbours. This was a weapon without an enemy to use it against."

"Then why was it made?" Aeva asked.

"A hold out weapon; something made in preparation for use in an extreme case." Priit shrugged. "It's said that the People learned the arts of violence from the Three-Fold-Stag, Brother Wolf, First Bear, and the Orker."

"The Stag as patron of the Ember-Eyes, the Wolf for the Fangs, the Bear for the Frost-Scarred, and then the Orker for the orphan warriors." Aeva recited. "It was an old story, one that was old when my father was young."

"What if — hypothetically — there was an enemy who had learned at the foot of a different spirit?" Priit asked. "The coyote or the fox? A crow or raven? They could require a very different tool to dispose of them since they attack in ways that are utterly unexpected."

"Have you found such an enemy?"

"I had thought so," Priit responded. "You remember the reports that filtered back from the Northlands war? Dreams plaguing people every night, men going mad enough that they would rather slit their own throats than live another day. The experience was worse. Everyone lost friends, not only to the cruel madness of the Ivory-Blooded Chief's war, but to the demons that came in the night. Even to this day, the Northlands are unsure how they managed it. The Ivory-Blooded Chief had anointed himself with dark and bloody magic. He cloaked himself in spiritual secrets gleaned directly from his blood-sworn sister, the High Shaman. Out of every High Shaman the Northlands had, she was the most spritually touched."

"So much so that it twisted her in body," Aeva agreed. The corpse that had been delivered back to the Northlands had not been human. Warped beyond belief, it's body was wrong in fundamental ways: joints that twisted when they should have stretched; thin-spider like limbs; and glassy, bulging eyes.

"For many, the dreams didn't end after the Ivory-Blooded Chief died at my hand. For some, it did, but not for others. When the Northlands were brought to heel, the dream-terrors ceased in a few more people. As years of peace drifted by, others escaped the dream demons. Some never did. They died, at their own hands or at the enemy's, but some lived. Plagued. Every. Single. Night. There were so many questions of how the Northlands with their weak spirits could lay such a Curse upon us. Whomever laid it upon the warriors would need to know them personally. Their weaknesses. Their strengths. Blood ties, history, spiritual totems, all of the countless little things that go into making a proper Curse."

"Did you uncover the source of the spiritual malaise?"

Priit grunted, a half-hearted smile almost ready to break out on his lips. "It was a long investigation," he started. "But the answer is no."

Signaling to one of Aeva's aids that it was okay to approach and bring the mid-day meal, Priit hesitated when he saw exactly what Aeva received. Boiled black rice, mixed berries and mashed pumpkin, sweetened perhaps with a little too much maple sugar. It was a common meal for the elderly and the ill. The amount however... There was perhaps only a few mouthfuls of food in the elderly woman's bowl. Was that all she had been eating? Between the corn-and-apple stuffed turkey, quinoa bread, and berry paste set before Priit, he had to have at least four times as much food. He was unused to eating more than others, but that much? Only a child could eat so little.

"I looked hard, but found nothing in the end," Priit finally begun again, "At first, I looked in the wrong places. The Dream Curse was wielded with terrible efficiency against the People. It was a fearsome weapon of war that couldn't be escaped or defended against; it struck nearly at random. It was a perfect work of subtle magic geared for war. The Ivory-Blooded Chief and the Northlands were the obvious first suspects. When he died and the war ended, the Curse remained. How could that be? How could the enemy still live? It was obvious the enemy wasn't what I had expected. They were far more subtle and had an intimate knowledge of the spirits and a great font of power to enact such a black miracle. Whoever must have cast the Dream Curse was a wizened shaman of great power."

"How were you certain that this Curse was cast?" Aeva asked simply.

Priit barked with laughter at the response.

"That was what I didn't understand for the longest time. The spirits are capricious. Careless for whom they hurt. I was so used to fighting against other men and women that something without direction was impossible to grasp. Violence is a pure language; consumed with point and counterpoint between warriors dancing in opposition. There are always partners there — symmetry — and intelligence guiding actions. Not like the spirits and their secret ways. The Dream Curse was a disease, if extremely subtle. Men and women who had never raised a weapon for war could become afflicted, if much rarer. It's analogous to the Wracking Cough; the spirits punish those who stay outside in the rains and snows, a time where there should be no people. The Wracking Cough also affects a small number of those who are innocent of the crime and deserve no punishment. The spirits aimed the arrows... and they missed."

"The spirits are not unknowable," Aeva said. "Difficult to comprehend? Yes. Opaque? Even more so. There's much more to the work of curses and disease than them being punishments for crime. You're losing a lot of nuance. Speak to the shaman and the spirits can speak through them. "

"The spirits may seem understandable to one such as you, but not many are of your caliber. What little I've learned of the spirits has suggested to me that they are fallible. If the spirits are fallible, then what does that say about old women?" Grinning, Priit picked up the obsidian dagger at his side and returned it to its sheath. "Or middle-aged men. Mistakes, even terrible ones, are natural. There are a few thoughts I wish to discuss with you; a solution to the problems we've noted with the orphans of warriors."

When night finally fell, Priit and Aeva finished hammering out the few final details of the reforms to the warrior system. If families were too small to ensure that a warrior's children were protected and looked after, then they would need to work and be supported by something greater than families.

Priit left then, to return to his men, feeling lighter than he had since he was a boy.

How should the warriors be organized into interrelated tribes?

[ ] [Tribe] Based on descent from prominent children of Kaspar.
[ ] [Tribe] Based on extended kinship of warleaders who distinguish themselves in war.
[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on common membership in a group of longhouses.
[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on auspicious, but unclaimed, spiritual totems.
[ ] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[ ] [Tribe] Randomly assign tribes to all current warriors where they will reside permanently.

When the People's warriors finally made their way to the south, there was a silent horror in what they saw. The Peace Builders had fared extremely poorly in the years since the end of the Northlands War. Nihkuko had gone half mad at the devastation; at the half-empty longhouses and the abandoned tents. The list of friends and family members that he went to visit only to find an empty spot at the evening fire was ever growing. Others were said to be still alive, but beyond anyone's reach; the Cracktooth had taken them.

From the stories the Skalds relayed to the People, the Cracktooth tribe were a vicious group. From what Priit could gather, they were as bad as South Lake had been rumoured to be in times long ago. Each of their warriors carried a belt of teeth taken from slain enemies; skilled warriors carried even more. The bones of their kills were broken and stacked in great piles, a warning to those who fought against them. As a result, the People could see the touch of war nearly everywhere in the south; seeing a full battlefield ceded to their control or even worse, the sack of a settlement, was macabre beyond compare.

It was by far the worse fate to be captured by them. Women were taken as was often the case with raiders, but the children... They had a tendency to show up many years later, scarred and half-mad at the front of the Cracktooth's ranks. Distantly familiar faces, they were driven to kill those who had once called them kith and kin. Almost never did they respond to calls for surrender, to be reunited with their old families.

East of them resided the Bitter-Water tribe. A group consumed by madness, they would charge into conflict headless of death. Arrows and spears seemed to do nothing to them. They had no fear of fire or cold. All that seemed to work against them were crushing blows that smashed their skulls. Anything less was laughed off. One of the Peace Builders even insisted that he'd seen a Bitter-Water warrior pull himself up an impaled spear so that he could tear the throat out of his killer with his teeth.

West of the Cracktooth were the Roundstone tribe. Methodical warriors, they relied heavily on a unique weapon the People had never seen before. It was a long strap of braided leather, cupped in the center so that a smooth river stone could be set inside. The contraption was whirled above the head and released, sending the river stone hurtling. Somehow, the braided leather seemed to massively amplify the power of a throw like a spear-thrower would increase a hurled javelin. It was clever: unlike arrows or javelins which often took hours to make, river stones could simply be picked up anywhere. It was a fantastic hunting tool. In war, however? It seemed to lack the punch needed to tear through wood or bone armour. It would maim or even kill unarmoured warriors, but the People and most of the other southern fighters bore armour. They seemed to be compensating for that, if the rumours of them beginning to carry great, stone-headed clubs were true.

The last threat that the People could encounter were the Catseye. Incredibly distant, only small numbers of them were ever encountered at any one time. They often struck quickly from canoes, darting in like knives and the retreating with captives and loot. They were noteable for too reasons: first, was their weapons. Hard flint knives, they were cursed things. The slightest cut was almost certain to inflict devastating wound-rot. The Catseye would often be happy with inflicting a few simple wounds before retreating and allowing their magic to do its work.

The second, was something that People considered near blasphemous: they had sunstone! Or at least something that looked like it. It wasn't quite the citrine that the Ember-Eyes were so profoundly protective of, but something similar. The stone was more yellow than amber in colour and appeared to be cleft by a white line. It wasn't a crack; it was something intrinsic to the stone.

There were rumours of another tribe, one found north and east of the Peace Builders, but those were mostly just rumours. There had been no war in that direction for generations, the Peace Builders noted. Whoever had once thought to contest the southern peninsula had retreated and not returned.

It was into this carefully organized web of balanced tribes that the People arrived. And arrive they did with all the force of a thunderstorm. The constantly glowing Coloured Winds seemed to cow the southerners. They were unused to their nights being bathed in spiritual light; many of them hid behind their walls and ceded enormous amounts of territory without contest. The People, however, were familiar and further egged on by Horned Riders in their midst. The Coloured Winds were auspicious omens, not doom-driven.

A masterfully executed series of raids against the Cracktooth tribe terrified their warriors. The hounds of the Fangs filled the southern woodlands with barking growls promising a grisly end to whoever crossed the People. Echoing horns called in unison, promising a much faster, but just as fatal end. Each of the bone piles the Cracktooth were so proud of were dismantled; cracked open for marrow by the People's dogs. Their morale seemed to collapse a little bit more each time one of their ghastly totems was destroyed.

The Horned Riders served as the perfectly compliment to the wolves. While ultimately too small to really capitalize when the militia was put to flight, the caribou riders inflicted greatly disproportionate losses. Even when a large portion caribou overheated and died in the summer months, those that survived continued to prove their worth.

The sudden reversal in the war was great enough that Priit managed to successfully capture one of their settlements! The enemy's morale had fallen far enough that when the baying hounds surrounded their settlement, they had thrown open the palisade's gates and tried for a desperate escape. Weighed down by valuables and protecting vulnerable dependents, the great force of warriors surrounding the settlement's inhabitants failed to flee. It was a good idea, to concentrate force and then punch through the thin net that the People had laced through their territory, but it failed to taken into account the helpfulness of the Fangs and he skill of Priit's war planning.

Most of the warriors were slain in battle, but the survivors were quickly bundled up. As per tradition, they were sent back to the People's lands as Debtors. It strained supplies in the short-term, but it was either taking them as Debtors or slaughtering them wholesale. It was not a proper choice.

In the years following the victory against the Cracktooth, Priit moved his forces east against the Bitter-Water tribe. The war bogged down against them, but that was only to be expected; the Cracktooth had taken damage much more quickly than anyone could have expected. Priit expected that it would take a few more years before the People had whittled down the numbers of the Bitter-Water warriors enough that they could safely sack their westernmost settlement. If they didn't continue to attack, it was likely the Bitter-Water would swing at the Cracktooth tribe, they could see the weakness in them just as much.

On the other hand, the devastation in the south had lead to a re-emergence of the tribe the Peace Builders had forgotten about. Their first forays into the south were mostly tentative exploration, but they would be returning to the scene quite soon. That could either turn the situation even more chaotic, or be a grand boon. It would just have to be carefully managed.

How does Priit plan to continue the war? (Gained +1 Legitimacy due to war rolls and astrological phenomena)

[ ] [War] Continue to hammer away at the Cracktooth.
[ ] [War] Move to sack a settlement of the Bitter-Water tribe.
[ ] [War] Strike at the new Lakeland tribe.
[ ] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[ ] [War] Help the Peace Builders to rebuild from the damage they previously took.

The Debtors sent back to the People have brought an enormous amount of free labour. How should they be used?

[ ] [Debt] Put them to work in the fields. (Expand Agriculture: Corn x3)
[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)
[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)
[ ] [Debt] The lands of the south are much better organized, use that. (New Trails x2)
[ ] [Debt] Found a new settlement for them. (Found Settlement: River-Bend)
[ ] [Debt] Take them, but let them be as much as possible. (???)

AN: Moratorium until tomorrow morning.

veekie · Jul 15, 2018

Moratorium as usual I presume?
Going to be out halfthe day

Redium · Jul 15, 2018

veekie said:
Moratorium as usual I presume?
Going to be out halfthe day

Yes, probably for about 8-10 hours. I really need to get some sleep.

Cariyaga · Jul 15, 2018

FWIW, I feel like this may be our last opportunity to snatch up the River Bend settlement.

RandomDwarf · Jul 15, 2018

I really want the temples done...and then work on more hills and then food.

Building tall here sounds for the best...

Cathon Grimeye · Jul 15, 2018

RandomDwarf said:
Building tall here sounds for the best...

A possibly useful quote to keep in mind regarding this.

Redium said:
I will advise that you start deciding on whether you want to build Tall or build wide soon. You're kind of in-between now and it's hurting you from doing either. If you want to build Tall, build the Hills and Temples so that you can get them locked in as soon as possible. If you want to build wide, start dropping settlements, like next turn. Most of the Wide builders are soon getting to the point where they'll be twice your size (in controlled area, you technically have more uncontrolled turf).

You should also think about whether you want to dominate Rahu Bay and the lands south of it in the west or control the White River's flood plain in the east. If you don't go for either, the Faction that gets one of them will be able to snap you over their knee.

RandomDwarf · Jul 15, 2018

If people build wide then when the Bronze Age falls we have a good opportunity to get our own expansion going.
(As in other people's building wide not us)

Us having the defenses to last through the Bronze Age into Iron Age sounds good enough for me.

sam5447 · Jul 15, 2018

Is the Bitter-Water Ttibe the tribe of the West?

DarkLight140 · Jul 15, 2018

That Pritt-Aeva scene was really great. Soaked in subtext and emotion, and Pritt ultimately explaining how he's grown older and wiser... he's come a long way from the traumatized but dangerous kid he once was. Their story really is a powerful one and it's amazingly fortunate that we got through it as peaceably as we did.

The mountain clans having elevated buildings is interesting and might be worth picking up- raising granaries and other storage buildings off the ground can do a lot to reduce damage from pests. But it doesn't seem like a game-changer.

The difference between the mountain elders' attitude and their younger traders is a reminder of how transient relationships and opinions are and why we're giving/trading them food instead of teaching them; when those elders die off no one will remember being impressed by our show of spiritual power anymore, so they won't care about it. If we keep giving them food instead of trading for it after that it could really skew our relationship.

It sounds like slings would be a major boon to our hunters, even if mediocre as a weapon of war. Hopefully we'll pick up that technology before our warriors go home.

The power of light cavalry in warfare is amply demonstrated with the caribou riders, though I'm sorry to hear that they're so unsuited for this that they literally overheat and die. A few dozen generations of breeding might make them a bit more suitable as mounts but I don't see anything less than that pulling it off.

I'm inclined to reach out to the Lakeland and see if they can be allies. Pritt's assessment is that the Bitter-Water and Cracktooth will start fighting if we don't press the assault against Bitter-Water, so let that happen and see if we can avoid opening up a new front that we don't have to. Second choice behind that would be to help the Peace Builders rebuild, as from the description of their situation they could really use it.

While I want to found settlements, making a settlement primarily out of relocated and captured enemies seems like it would be bound to cause problems down the line. Better to push toward building tall- which would probably be best accomplished by The Hill x2. That'll put us only two actions from having Hills at all three settlements and starting to lock them in, which would be great. Finishing the temple would be nice but in terms of action slots it's strictly worse so better to leave it for now.

Z000 · Jul 15, 2018

either try to get ally or help Peace rebuild for a secure defensive base to fall back on in case dice get piss

alway alway have a secure fall back point

LucidProp · Jul 15, 2018

[ ] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.

Preferred option. We should make sure that a unknown variable becomes known. Last thing I want is the other tribes using Lakeland to strike at us when the Peace Builders are reeling.

That said, the Priit and Aeva scene was amazing.

[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)

We're gonna lose Aeva soon.

veekie · Jul 15, 2018

Redium said:
It also only occurred when the elders came to pick up supplies. When traders from the Fingers stopped in with them on their way to the Island Makers, the Mountain Clans were happy to talk and invited the traders to sup with them for the evening, plying their own few wares in turn. There wasn't much that the Mountain Clans could offer, but they occasionally turned up stones of lapis lazuli or intricately carved stoneware. Everything that they had was exchanged for more food, salt and other necessities and used in turn to fuel the growth of their settlements.

Their places were small, haphazard things, but there was one interesting aspect; how they built. The Mountain Clans dwelt in strange houses that seemed to float above the ground instead of the traditional longhouses used by the People or other lowlander tribes. Their dwellings were made of cut and stacked timbers, shaped at the ends so that they would hold together while any gaps were packed with moss. Instead of their home's living area being on the ground — as was sensible — the Mountain Clansmen built raised platforms into their homes. It meant that the roof had to be much higher, but it kept the main chamber out of the snow and off of the cold ground in the middle of winter.

Thats a good innovation to pick up, though it makes high rise architecture harder, owing to the need to support a first elevated floor. However, for us, due to our use of brickwork, I think we're only building a bunch of kilns away from developing tiles for flooring or roofing, which would compound this.

Biggest boon is improving crafting complexity(the skills you need to make and support a raised floor applies to basically every part of constructing buildings and boats), followed by dealing with flooding, heat loss in winter and finally keeping out the vermin.

Redium said:
"I looked hard, but found nothing in the end," Priit finally begun again, "At first, I looked in the wrong places. The Dream Curse was wielded with terrible efficiency against the People. It was a fearsome weapon of war that couldn't be escaped or defended against; it struck nearly at random. It was a perfect work of subtle magic geared for war. The Ivory-Blooded Chief and the Northlands were the obvious first suspects. When he died and the war ended, the Curse remained. How could that be? How could the enemy still live? It was obvious the enemy wasn't what I had expected. They were far more subtle and had an intimate knowledge of the spirits and a great font of power to enact such a black miracle. Whoever must have cast the Dream Curse was a wizened shaman of great power."

"How were you certain that this Curse was cast?" Aeva asked simply.

Priit barked with laughter at the response.

"That was what I didn't understand for the longest time. The spirits are capricious. Careless for whom they hurt. I was so used to fighting against other men and women that something without direction was impossible to grasp. Violence is a pure language; consumed with point and counterpoint between warriors dancing in opposition. There are always partners there — symmetry — and intelligence guiding actions. Not like the spirits and their secret ways. The Dream Curse was a disease, if extremely subtle. Men and women who had never raised a weapon for war could become afflicted, if much rarer. It's analogous to the Wracking Cough; the spirits punish those who stay outside in the rains and snows, a time where there should be no people. The Wracking Cough also affects a small number of those who are innocent of the crime and deserve no punishment. The spirits aimed the arrows... and they missed."

PTSD filed as a natural curse of spirits.
Nothing for treating it yet, but we might see something yet to come.

Redium said:
"The spirits may seem understandable to one such as you, but not many are of your caliber. What little I've learned of the spirits has suggested to me that they are fallible. If the spirits are fallible, then what does that say about old women?" Grinning, Priit picked up the obsidian dagger at his side and returned it to its sheath. "Or middle-aged men. Mistakes, even terrible ones, are natural. There are a few thoughts I wish to discuss with you; a solution to the problems we've noted with the orphans of warriors."

And Priit learns.
Nobody was evil. They were merely too human. Every fault a human flaw.

Redium said:
From the stories the Skalds relayed to the People, the Cracktooth tribe were a vicious group. From what Priit could gather, they were as bad as South Lake had been rumoured to be in times long ago. Each of their warriors carried a belt of teeth taken from slain enemies; skilled warriors carried even more. The bones of their kills were broken and stacked in great piles, a warning to those who fought against them. As a result, the People could see the touch of war nearly everywhere in the south; seeing a full battlefield ceded to their control or even worse, the sack of a settlement, was macabre beyond compare.

Trophy culture? Certainly terrifying!

Redium said:
It was by far the worse fate to be captured by them. Women were taken as was often the case with raiders, but the children... They had a tendency to show up many years later, scarred and half-mad at the front of the Cracktooth's ranks. Distantly familiar faces, they were driven to kill those who had once called them kith and kin. Almost never did they respond to calls for surrender, to be reunited with their old families.

Thats a rare trick this early on to indoctrinate children as warriors. Unless they do it to their own.

Redium said:
East of them resided the Bitter-Water tribe. A group consumed by madness, they would charge into conflict headless of death. Arrows and spears seemed to do nothing to them. They had no fear of fire or cold. All that seemed to work against them were crushing blows that smashed their skulls. Anything less was laughed off. One of the Peace Builders even insisted that he'd seen a Bitter-Water warrior pull himself up an impaled spear so that he could tear the throat out of his killer with his teeth.

Berserkers. PROBABLY drug enhanced, I don't think hypnotic suggestion is enough.

Redium said:
West of the Cracktooth were the Roundstone tribe. Methodical warriors, they relied heavily on a unique weapon the People had never seen before. It was a long strap of braided leather, cupped in the center so that a smooth river stone could be set inside. The contraption was whirled above the head and released, sending the river stone hurtling. Somehow, the braided leather seemed to massively amplify the power of a throw like a spear-thrower would increase a hurled javelin. It was clever: unlike arrows or javelins which often took hours to make, river stones could simply be picked up anywhere. It was a fantastic hunting tool. In war, however? It seemed to lack the punch needed to tear through wood or bone armour. It would maim or even kill unarmoured warriors, but the People and most of the other southern fighters bore armour. They seemed to be compensating for that, if the rumours of them beginning to carry great, stone-headed clubs were true.

Slings!
I'd bet the Northlanders will be taking the idea home, since it's of great use for their hunters. Less so for our people, since the forests are relatively poor places for slings.

Redium said:
The last threat that the People could encounter were the Catseye. Incredibly distant, only small numbers of them were ever encountered at any one time. They often struck quickly from canoes, darting in like knives and the retreating with captives and loot. They were noteable for too reasons: first, was their weapons. Hard flint knives, they were cursed things. The slightest cut was almost certain to inflict devastating wound-rot. The Catseye would often be happy with inflicting a few simple wounds before retreating and allowing their magic to do its work.

Poison, probably.
Good for skirmishing, though if it comes to the press of war it just means you lose expensively.

Redium said:
The second, was something that People considered near blasphemous: they had sunstone! Or at least something that looked like it. It wasn't quite the citrine that the Ember-Eyes were so profoundly protective of, but something similar. The stone was more yellow than amber in colour and appeared to be cleft by a white line. It wasn't a crack; it was something intrinsic to the stone.

Agates. Probably going to be pretty popular as a trade good later

Redium said:
A masterfully executed series of raids against the Cracktooth tribe terrified their warriors. The hounds of the Fangs filled the southern woodlands with barking growls promising a grisly end to whoever crossed the People. Echoing horns called in unison, promising a much faster, but just as fatal end. Each of the bone piles the Cracktooth were so proud of were dismantled; cracked open for marrow by the People's dogs. Their morale seemed to collapse a little bit more each time one of their ghastly totems was destroyed.

You know...I wonder if they don't use the totems for their own dead. If so its less a terror statement and more a respect statement.

Then we fed it all to the dogs.

Redium said:
In the years following the victory against the Cracktooth, Priit moved his forces east against the Bitter-Water tribe. The war bogged down against them, but that was only to be expected; the Cracktooth had taken damage much more quickly than anyone could have expected. Priit expected that it would take a few more years before the People had whittled down the numbers of the Bitter-Water warriors enough that they could safely sack their westernmost settlement. If they didn't continue to attack, it was likely the Bitter-Water would swing at the Cracktooth tribe, they could see the weakness in them just as much.

On the other hand, the devastation in the south had lead to a re-emergence of the tribe the Peace Builders had forgotten about. Their first forays into the south were mostly tentative exploration, but they would be returning to the scene quite soon. That could either turn the situation even more chaotic, or be a grand boon. It would just have to be carefully managed.

Hmm...So if we pulled back they'd start savaging each other to our gain, but if we pressed on we'd have Priit(whose time is ticking down) for the fighting.

How should the warriors be organized into interrelated tribes?
[ ] [Tribe] Based on descent from prominent children of Kaspar.

Boost to elitism, under 'noble' families.
Stable, though I'm not sure how viable the feudal-like structure is before the Iron Age.

[ ] [Tribe] Based on extended kinship of warleaders who distinguish themselves in war.

Boosts elitism, but it basically says "win a war to become a Big Man and make your family Medium Men". Reinforces our Flat Arrow Outlook and elitism.

[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on common membership in a group of longhouses.

Focus on the geographical structure. Each settlement has a force loyal to the settlement, which can deploy rapidly from whats basically a less organized barracks.
Extremely stable, one of the more solid formations for the Bronze Age actually. All the way to the industrial age.
Which is actually its own drawback, because stability means its hard to reform.
Note that this would probably trigger caste system event chain. Choose carefully if that upsets you

[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on auspicious, but unclaimed, spiritual totems.

Form them into pseudo-Sacred Orders, and thus specialist army forms.
This can be good with Priit here to shape it, though it could ALSO steal the significance of specialist warrior types while developing more of them initially, but it'd raise the entry barrier of developing new specialist types later on due to politics.
It does mean that in the event of a splintering we are much more likely to lose said specialists as well though.

[ ] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.

This helps with communal unity, basically, we do this thing where warriors ritually leave their past behind and enter a warrior tribe, and define themselves by it. Makes it hard for warriors to rebel against authority since they are spread out all over their organizations. ALSO makes it harder to rally them in an emergency(I assume Aeva knows what she's doing when she recommended this? )
It helps keep the tribal parity in times of peace, though in times of war, the balance might get skewed.

[ ] [Tribe] Randomly assign tribes to all current warriors where they will reside permanently.

Wildcard. Its simple, but nobody will be happy.

How does Priit plan to continue the war? (Gained +1 Legitimacy due to war rolls and astrological phenomena)
[ ] [War] Continue to hammer away at the Cracktooth.
[ ] [War] Move to sack a settlement of the Bitter-Water tribe.

As per Priit's assessment, if we step away from these guys they'd probably pounce on each other. So these two seem to be bad options.

[ ] [War] Strike at the new Lakeland tribe.
[ ] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.

Striking Lakeland would drag them into the furball against us, while an alliance might generate a stable standing pattern where Lakeland + Peace Builders form a bloc too hard for the Bitter Water and Cracktooth to attack casually.

[ ] [War] Help the Peace Builders to rebuild from the damage they previously took.

From what we've seen the Peace Builders are this close to collapsing. Certainly could use the help, but its harder than war or diplomacy.

The Debtors sent back to the People have brought an enormous amount of free labour. How should they be used?
[ ] [Debt] Put them to work in the fields. (Expand Agriculture: Corn x3)

Dangerous if we want to avoid intensive slavery. Slaves are just too convenient for agriculture.

[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)

Unskilled labor building a skilled structure...naw, we'd finish this next turn anyways.

[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)

We wanted that Hill a while ago. Good time for it. Moving lots of dirt is also good slave work.
Relatively safe as well since they're directly under the gaze of our oldest settlement and unlikely to be able to escape or rise up.

[ ] [Debt] The lands of the south are much better organized, use that. (New Trails x2)

Its actually quite useful, but too easy for them to flee in the process I think.

[ ] [Debt] Found a new settlement for them. (Found Settlement: River-Bend)

Not a good time for it while we're still filling out our Tall build so we can be ready for the Bronze Age surge.

[ ] [Debt] Take them, but let them be as much as possible. (???)

I'm not really sure how our values would take Debtors being not given any important work to meet their debts.

So my vote would be:
[ ] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[ ] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)

veekie · Jul 15, 2018

Hannz said:
[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)

We're gonna lose Aeva soon.

@Hannz

We specifically want to build the temple next turn to lock in the Aeva bonus. Otherwise we'd need to start a third temple and redline our Religious Authority.

zac1 · Jul 15, 2018

Huh, raised supports huh? That be nice to have, who knows we may even make stone foundations instead of wooden ones. This means long houses wont suffer from wood rot caused by stone being exposed to the elements. This would lead to more permanent housing. We could end up having more permanent structures and the like, down the line we may even have to vote on housing placement, maybe as a background vote or something.

racnor · Jul 15, 2018

veekie said:
Berserkers. PROBABLY drug enhanced, I don't think hypnotic suggestion is enough.

Makes sense, we know that the Tribe Of The West has berserkers. Bitter Water probably found out about the drugs via trade.

In other news, hurrah! 30 prestige threshold reached! (not sure why this is a milestone I feel like cheering but hey at least we get another vassal slot),

Rafin · Jul 15, 2018

Redium said:
If he tried to exert himself, his 'subordinates' would flip the table and escalate the current low-level conflict, almost certainly murdering him.

How is a Big Man formally deposed anyway, other than death? Can he be voted out? How often is that an option the citizen of a settlement can take? Or in other words, do we already have something akin to office terms?

Redium said:
Despite all of the territory you control, you are a very small town.

You said we had a population of several thousand. Divided by three, I still expect each settlement plus suburbs to amount to more than a thousand. That's three large villages, complete with noticeable travel distance between them. Not enough for stereotypes even id this day and age? Our heroes of old must have done a really great job at ensuring interconnectivity for that to be the case. At least based on what I know of human nature. But maybe I underestimate the effect of being surrounded by dozens of outsider tribes.

Redium said:
[ ] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[ ] [Tribe] Randomly assign tribes to all current warriors where they will reside permanently.

I don't quite get the difference between these two.

veekie · Jul 15, 2018

Rafin said:
How is a Big Man formally deposed anyway, other than death? Can he be voted out? How often is that an option the citizen of a settlement can take? Or in other words, do we already have something akin to office terms?

Big Man is for life. However Flat Arrow Outlook says that a Klingon Impeachment can occur, if there is enough general support for the challenger

Rafin said:
You said we had a population of several thousand. Divided by three, I still expect each settlement plus suburbs to amount to more than a thousand. That's three large villages, complete with noticeable travel distance between them. Not enough for stereotypes even id this day and age? Our heroes of old must have done a really great job at ensuring interconnectivity for that to be the case. At least based on what I know of human nature. But maybe I underestimate the effect of being surrounded by dozens of outsider tribes.

Remember, several thousand people, of which the vast majority is engaged in subsistence food production. You don't get a lot of stereotypes until you reach another 2-3 points of specialization, because more or less people can't deviate THAT much when they are engaged in the same behaviors to not starve.

Rafin said:
I don't quite get the difference between these two.

The first is assigned on graduation to a barracks code, you won't go into the same tribe as your father.
The second is that all current warriors are assigned to a barracks, and their descendants will all belong to the same barracks.

Redium · Jul 15, 2018

Rafin said:
How is a Big Man formally deposed anyway, other than death? Can he be voted out? How often is that an option the citizen of a settlement can take? Or in other words, do we already have something akin to office terms?

They usually die first. Remember: Big Men tend to be ambitious. They're the type of people who want power. They're generally not very willing to give it up. They almost always have to be deposed or are rendered invalid by injury or age.

Rafin said:
You said we had a population of several thousand. Divided by three, I still expect each settlement plus suburbs to amount to more than a thousand. That's three large villages, complete with noticeable travel distance between them. Not enough for stereotypes even id this day and age? Our heroes of old must have done a really great job at ensuring interconnectivity for that to be the case. At least based on what I know of human nature. But maybe I underestimate the effect of being surrounded by dozens of outsider tribes.

There's simply not that much variation. The vast majority of your people are the same: subsistence farmers and hunters. Those who are different are members of Holy Orders, shaman or warriors and there's relatively few of them, perhaps 1/5 of the population at most. Now, there's stereotypes about them but they tend to be the same across geography. The differences tend to be larger within settlements than between them.

Rafin said:
I don't quite get the difference between these two.

@veekie got it.

1st option: Everyone gets assigned to a random fighting tribe for the rest of time.

2nd option: Everyone is randomly assigned to a fighting tribe and then new members are inducted into the tribes of their forebears.

Vote is Open!

How should the warriors be organized into interrelated tribes?

[ ] [Tribe] Based on descent from prominent children of Kaspar.
[ ] [Tribe] Based on extended kinship of warleaders who distinguish themselves in war.
[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on common membership in a group of longhouses.
[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on auspicious, but unclaimed, spiritual totems.
[ ] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[ ] [Tribe] Randomly assign tribes to all current warriors where they will reside permanently.

How does Priit plan to continue the war? (Gained +1 Legitimacy due to war rolls and astrological phenomena)

[ ] [War] Continue to hammer away at the Cracktooth.
[ ] [War] Move to sack a settlement of the Bitter-Water tribe.
[ ] [War] Strike at the new Lakeland tribe.
[ ] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[ ] [War] Help the Peace Builders to rebuild from the damage they previously took.

The Debtors sent back to the People have brought an enormous amount of free labour. How should they be used?

[ ] [Debt] Put them to work in the fields. (Expand Agriculture: Corn x3)
[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)
[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)
[ ] [Debt] The lands of the south are much better organized, use that. (New Trails x2)
[ ] [Debt] Found a new settlement for them. (Found Settlement: River-Bend)
[ ] [Debt] Take them, but let them be as much as possible. (???)

veekie · Jul 15, 2018

[X] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[X] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[X] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)

Alright, here we go.
@Redium
Presuming Priit and Aeva checked the main [Tribe] options and found no glaring flaws that'd cause trouble when they're gone?

My aim here is to keep the warriors not TOO segregated from the rest of the civ, so a 'fair' distribution by lot into a given organization seems a good way to break down their prior extended family loyalties and bond them with their army-mates. Which theoretically leaves the Big Man Council in control because the tribes will find it hard to centralize political power.

Makes it harder to do civil war when every group has members with relatives from every other group

Redium · Jul 15, 2018

veekie said:
@Redium
Presuming Priit and Aeva checked the main [Tribe] options and found no glaring flaws that'd cause trouble when they're gone?

Yes. There's not any obvious problems involved; you won't get nailed for picking any of the options. There could be problems later on, but that would be generations upon generations later and that goes for pretty much every option..

Umi-san · Jul 15, 2018

[X] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[X] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[X] [Debt] The lands of the south are much better organized, use that. (New Trails x2)

Pretty much voting for veekie, but I would prefer New Trails to improve our internal logistics.

Japanime · Jul 15, 2018

Redium said:
General
Martial: Reduced Hardened Neolithic Warriors and Holy Orders
Economy: Early Aquaculture with Very Early Agriculture Supplemented by Managed Hunting and Herding (Small Surplus)
Agriculture: Extremely Early Agriculture
Aquaculture: Early Aquaculture
Herds: Primarily small-team hunts with animal assistance
Hunting: Carefully Managed Hunting (Safe Hunting Cap: Substantial Room Left)Art: Advanced High-Quality Tools
Diplomacy: A Tribe of Two Faces, Spirit and Demon.
???

Not much seems to have changed for our overall status aside from the expected smaller food surplus (+2 overall).

Redium said:
Endurance
Stability: Pleased (1)
Legitimacy: Obediant (2)
Prestige: 31
???

On the other hand we seem to have gained 3 prestige from our victories against the Cracktooth, as well as the mentioned legitimacy gain, which is good.

Redium said:
Leader Board

The People! (Prestige: 31, Army: Reduced, Hardened Neolithic Warriors and Holy Orders, Economy: Early Agriculture Supplemented with Hunting, Art: Sacred Construction and Advanced High Quality Tools, Magic: Fire, Stone, and Spirit)

Tribe of the West (Prestige: 21, Army: Numerous Professional Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Unprecedented Boom in Agriculture, Art: Innumerable Tools, Magic: All Things Alive)

Arrow Lake (Prestige: 18, Army: Informal, Lucky Militia, Economy: Early Agriculture, Art: Sacred Iconography, Magic: Stone and Slaves)

Island Makers (Prestige: 17, Army: Enraged Elite Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Intense Early Agriculture, Art: Advanced Quality Tools, Magic: Earth and Water)

Roundstone (Prestige: 15, Army: Professional Slingers, Economy: Extensive Aquaculture, Art: Cloth and Paint, Magic: Shouts)

Bond Breakers (Prestige: 14, Army: Organizing Militia, Economy: Edge of Hunger, Art: Durable Weapons, Magic: Little)

Cracktooth (Prestige: 12, Army: Bloodied Militia, Economy: Agrculture and Herding, Art: Tools of Terror, Magic: Bone and Beat)

Pearl Divers (Prestige: 11, Army: Informal Militia, Economy: Early Fishing and Aquaculture, Art: Beautified Dependable Tools, Magic: Sea and Salt)

Peace Builders (Prestige: 10, Army: Greatly Reduced Fanatical Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Broad Agriculture and Aquaculture, Art: Ephemeral Crafts and Imported Advanced High Quality Tools, Magic: Of Song and Story)

Cateye (Prestige: 6, Army: Hit and Run, Economy: Hunter-Gatherer with Trade, Art: Glittering Gifts and Functional Tools, Magic: Corruption)

Lakeland (Prestige: 5, Canoe Archers, Economy: Hunter-Gatherer, Art: Rugged Tools, Magic: Little)

Mountain Clans (Prestige: 1, Army: Scattered Refugees, Economy: ~~Severe Starvation~~ Living On The Dole, Art: Little, Magic: Little)

Northlands (Prestige: 0, Army: Nigh Slaughtered Cavalry, Economy: Recovering from Near Collapse, Art: Bone Tools, Magic: Bonds and Beasts)

River Tribe (Prestige: ?, Army: ?, Economy: ?, Art: ?, Magic ?)

Taking a look at the new leader board, there are a lot of interesting changes to note.

Firstly, as usual we retain our position at the top of the board, no doubt due to our victories this turn. However, nothing much has really changed all that much for us.

The Tribe of the West on the other hand, seems to have lost 1 prestige for some reason, even though their other stats haven't changed at all compared to the beginning of Turn 18.

Arrow Lake and the Island Makers are still in the same position they were in earlier, though the fact that the Island Makers' warriors are still enraged is food for thought.

Roundstone and the Bond Breakers have switched positions, though that most is likely to do with this war. For Roundstone they also lost 1 prestige point too this turn even though we really didn't fight them, which makes me wonder what happened to them to cause them to lose that point.

When it comes to Cracktooth, they lost 3 prestige points which we as a result gained, and when we look at their army compared to before we entered the war, rather than having an eager blooded militia they now instead have a bloodied militia meaning that we did good damage on them this turn.

The Peace Builders are relatively the same as they were before we entered the war this turn, with their position being somewhat tenuous due to how few warriors they seem to have, which is a reverse of when they were ascendant. Unlike us they haven't recovered their military nearly as well as we have, though apparently their economy hasn't suffered too much because of it yet.

Cateye, or it it Catseye?, and Lakeland remain the same at this point as nothing really seems to have happened to them.

For the Mountain Clans it seems like our efforts have gotten them out of severe starvation, but it seems like we are the only reason they still survive and they must know it.

Even though the Northlands have 0 prestige at least it says that their economy is recovering from collapse, which I am guessing is the effect of our skilled workers assisting theirs.

The only thing really missing from the leader board, and the map, are the Bitter Water Tribe, who were mentioned as a foe yet we don't know what their status is nor where they are on the map even though they are technically closer to us than Catseye or Roundstone. Any reason for this @Redium ?

Redium said:
[X] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[X] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen. -> Phylai Warfare
[X] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.

So our reform of the warriors seems to have given us Phylai Warfare. The only thing I can recall about the term is that the Greeks separated themselves into tribes in antiquity, thus phyles or phylai. This makes me think then that Phylai Warfare will make it so that when we raise warriors we will raise them as tribes or something, like maybe the Sacred Band, but I'm too sure how it will get pulled off in practice.

Redium said:
Other supplies had been organized and set aside for the Mountain Clans. A mix of simple corn, rice, and salted meat, they were very well received by the People's new southern neighbours. Once a moon, they would come up from their island on the Valge River; every member of the troop was old, ancient and wizened. All of them were silent when they looked upon the People, struck by a quiet awe.

It was eerie.

I can somewhat get why their elders are so awed and reverential of us. What I am curious about is how their up and coming generations will view us. Depending on how they are raised, they could either feel humiliated about the fact that they have to rely on our charity to survive, or grateful. I'm hoping for the latter so we can take their settlement spot eventually.

Also, no quinoa for the foods we provide to them? I know we do grow some corn, but considering quinoa is locked in, I would have thought it was more prevalent.

Redium said:
It also only occurred when the elders came to pick up supplies. When traders from the Fingers stopped in with them on their way to the Island Makers, the Mountain Clans were happy to talk and invited the traders to sup with them for the evening, plying their own few wares in turn. There wasn't much that the Mountain Clans could offer, but they occasionally turned up stones of lapis lazuli or intricately carved stoneware. Everything that they had was exchanged for more food, salt and other necessities and used in turn to fuel the growth of their settlements.

This is probably good for us as this will make them much more dependent on us, especially if we can get going and produce food in massive quantities.

Redium said:
Their places were small, haphazard things, but there was one interesting aspect; how they built. The Mountain Clans dwelt in strange houses that seemed to float above the ground instead of the traditional longhouses used by the People or other lowlander tribes. Their dwellings were made of cut and stacked timbers, shaped at the ends so that they would hold together while any gaps were packed with moss. Instead of their home's living area being on the ground — as was sensible — the Mountain Clansmen built raised platforms into their homes. It meant that the roof had to be much higher, but it kept the main chamber out of the snow and off of the cold ground in the middle of winter.

It was a tradition of building that was utterly alien to the People. As neighbours, they were quiet; their strange ways were set aside as mere curiosities.

Raised structures? As everyone else has said, this type of building style is something we should try to get, if only so that we can make sure our granaries are more resistant to pests like mice and rats later.

I'm sure as time goes on we'll be able to learn how they construct these homes and adopt them ourselves for certain structures.

Redium said:
Above it all, the spirits danced in lights of green and purple. The Coloured Winds were familiar to the People, not something that they saw every night, but common enough that only the smallest had yet to see them. The waxed and waned, gusting constantly across a back drop of stars, as was the way of the spirits; showing pleasure and displeasure in ways that were unknowable. There was a pattern there, the People knew, just not one that they could see. It made many nervous to see the work of the spirits be so obvious, but impossibly inscrutable.

When the Horned Riders that followed the People looked up at the Coloured Winds, they responded with excitement. To the Northlands, the Coloured Winds were a constant in their lives. Every night, they kept watch over their tribe and guarded them through the endless nights of winter. For those over looking guardians to disappear, it was unnatural. The fact that the spirits kept watch over the warriors, even as they moved far south of their traditional range, excited many. They would be protected, the Horned Riders promised.

So what exactly did we roll for us to get the Aurora Borealis so far south like we did this turn? Was it just a general war roll or a weather roll @Redium ?

Redium said:
At Crystal Lake, Priit ordered a stop for a quarter moon, just enough time for the last stragglers from the People's greatest settlement to file in. Warriors were normally dispersed, spread around the population to respond to dangerous animals or violent bandits. Concentrating force was deeply unusual, it simply left too much unprotected. It was often better to cover more ground, to slide into weak points and cut off the enemy before they could reach vulnerable settlements.

So I get that warfare and fighting at this stage is mostly a one on one affair with skirmishing being preeminent, however, I'm curious. When it says that concentrating force is unusual, what is the maximum number of warriors that are generally used? When it says they are dispersed does that mean there are no formal things like garrisons or barracks?

How exactly were warriors organized during this?

Redium said:
It didn't have to be that way, Priit realized. Things could be done differently... if they were done correctly. That would require organization however, and new ways of thinking. Ways that were just out of grasp, on the tip of Priit's tongue, but still unknown.

Is this Priit thinking about the Phylai Warfare we are implementing now or something else @Redium ?

Redium said:
"I didn't expect that this was how we would last meet," Priit said. He'd found Aeva laid up in bed inside her longhouse. The old woman reeked of death. Her glassy eyes and cheeks were sunken and flesh was stretched paper thin across all of her bones. She must have lost a quarter of her weight from the last time he'd seen her.

I'm doubtful that Aeva will make it to turn 19 at this rate, but that's fine, she seems to have lived as long as Kaspar at any rate, which might say something about his genes.

Redium said:
"A hold out weapon; something made in preparation for use in an extreme case." Priit shrugged. "It's said that the People learned the arts of violence from the Three-Fold-Stag, Brother Wolf, First Bear, and the Orker."

"The Stag as patron of the Ember-Eyes, the Wolf for the Fangs, the Bear for the Frost-Scarred, and then the Orker for the orphan warriors." Aeva recited. "It was an old story, one that was old when my father was young."

So out of the spirits, I think, mentioned, how do they relate to the spirits you mentioned much earlier in the Quest?

Redium said:
Kaspar is likely going to become a god, likely the first one that's remembered as human. Feodor is remembered as the Stag-That-Is-The-Sun that's likely to diverge into a Sunrise-High Noon-Sunset triarchy, and the Finger's original female Martial hero is remembered as She-The-Snow. Alvar's story is fused to that of Brother Wolf (who is, for the record, female, despite being named Brother) as an ephemeral spirit of war.

For example, while it seems Brother Wolf remained the same at least in terms of naming, when it comes to the Three Fold Stag that makes me think that the Stag represents the story of Alvar's children, Feodor and the rest.

So @Redium who are First Bear and the Orker supposed to represent, and are spirits such as She-The-Snow and the Trackless Woods, for Miri, still remembered at all or has time passed too much for that?

Redium said:
"Have you found such an enemy?"

"I had thought so," Priit responded. "You remember the reports that filtered back from the Northlands war? Dreams plaguing people every night, men going mad enough that they would rather slit their own throats than live another day. The experience was worse. Everyone lost friends, not only to the cruel madness of the Ivory-Blooded Chief's war, but to the demons that came in the night. Even to this day, the Northlands are unsure how they managed it. The Ivory-Blooded Chief had anointed himself with dark and bloody magic. He cloaked himself in spiritual secrets gleaned directly from his blood-sworn sister, the High Shaman. Out of every High Shaman the Northlands had, she was the most spritually touched."

"So much so that it twisted her in body," Aeva agreed. The corpse that had been delivered back to the Northlands had not been human. Warped beyond belief, it's body was wrong in fundamental ways: joints that twisted when they should have stretched; thin-spider like limbs; and glassy, bulging eyes.

"For many, the dreams didn't end after the Ivory-Blooded Chief died at my hand. For some, it did, but not for others. When the Northlands were brought to heel, the dream-terrors ceased in a few more people. As years of peace drifted by, others escaped the dream demons. Some never did. They died, at their own hands or at the enemy's, but some lived. Plagued. Every. Single. Night. There were so many questions of how the Northlands with their weak spirits could lay such a Curse upon us. Whomever laid it upon the warriors would need to know them personally. Their weaknesses. Their strengths. Blood ties, history, spiritual totems, all of the countless little things that go into making a proper Curse."

"Did you uncover the source of the spiritual malaise?"

Priit grunted, a half-hearted smile almost ready to break out on his lips. "It was a long investigation," he started. "But the answer is no."

So essentially they are talking about PTSD and due to every sickness of a sorts being seen as a curse, the PTSD is thus being seen so as well, similar to that one disease that wracked the South awhile back.

I'm curious, though, before it was said that curses were laid out by the spirits, but now it seems like curses can be man made, or at least that humans can influence the intercession of the spirits in order to lay down a curse. Is this a new belief?

Redium said:
Signaling to one of Aeva's aids that it was okay to approach and bring the mid-day meal, Priit hesitated when he saw exactly what Aeva received. Boiled black rice, mixed berries and mashed pumpkin, sweetened perhaps with a little too much maple sugar. It was a common meal for the elderly and the ill. The amount however... There was perhaps only a few mouthfuls of food in the elderly woman's bowl. Was that all she had been eating? Between the corn-and-apple stuffed turkey, quinoa bread, and berry paste set before Priit, he had to have at least four times as much food. He was unused to eating more than others, but that much? Only a child could eat so little.

Yeah...she's not going to last long.

Redium said:
"I looked hard, but found nothing in the end," Priit finally begun again, "At first, I looked in the wrong places. The Dream Curse was wielded with terrible efficiency against the People. It was a fearsome weapon of war that couldn't be escaped or defended against; it struck nearly at random. It was a perfect work of subtle magic geared for war. The Ivory-Blooded Chief and the Northlands were the obvious first suspects. When he died and the war ended, the Curse remained. How could that be? How could the enemy still live? It was obvious the enemy wasn't what I had expected. They were far more subtle and had an intimate knowledge of the spirits and a great font of power to enact such a black miracle. Whoever must have cast the Dream Curse was a wizened shaman of great power."

"How were you certain that this Curse was cast?" Aeva asked simply.

Priit barked with laughter at the response.

"That was what I didn't understand for the longest time. The spirits are capricious. Careless for whom they hurt. I was so used to fighting against other men and women that something without direction was impossible to grasp. Violence is a pure language; consumed with point and counterpoint between warriors dancing in opposition. There are always partners there — symmetry — and intelligence guiding actions. Not like the spirits and their secret ways. The Dream Curse was a disease, if extremely subtle. Men and women who had never raised a weapon for war could become afflicted, if much rarer. It's analogous to the Wracking Cough; the spirits punish those who stay outside in the rains and snows, a time where there should be no people. The Wracking Cough also affects a small number of those who are innocent of the crime and deserve no punishment. The spirits aimed the arrows... and they missed."

"The spirits are not unknowable," Aeva said. "Difficult to comprehend? Yes. Opaque? Even more so. There's much more to the work of curses and disease than them being punishments for crime. You're losing a lot of nuance. Speak to the shaman and the spirits can speak through them. "

"The spirits may seem understandable to one such as you, but not many are of your caliber. What little I've learned of the spirits has suggested to me that they are fallible. If the spirits are fallible, then what does that say about old women?" Grinning, Priit picked up the obsidian dagger at his side and returned it to its sheath. "Or middle-aged men. Mistakes, even terrible ones, are natural. There are a few thoughts I wish to discuss with you; a solution to the problems we've noted with the orphans of warriors."

I've noticed a few things from this passage. Firstly, it seems like Priit and Aeva seems to have reconciled their differences, in that Priit has grown wiser and more mature in temperament, a great thing obviously that really shows his character arc, and that has led them to work together better in this. Secondly, it seems like Priit, by viewing the spirits as being fallible, similar to humans, may be indicating a change in thought concerning the spirits by potentially anthropmorphizing them, which seems to be a first step into the religious belief in gods. All in all, interesting details.

Redium said:
When night finally fell, Priit and Aeva finished hammering out the few final details of the reforms to the warrior system. If families were too small to ensure that a warrior's children were protected and looked after, then they would need to work and be supported by something greater than families.

Priit left then, to return to his men, feeling lighter than he had since he was a boy.

Glad to see that Priit has finally buried the hatchet it seems.

Will the strife caused by Priit's warrior faction go away now? Or are there still things left to do like the Code of Law? @Redium

Redium said:
When the People's warriors finally made their way to the south, there was a silent horror in what they saw. The Peace Builders had fared extremely poorly in the years since the end of the Northlands War. Nihkuko had gone half mad at the devastation; at the half-empty longhouses and the abandoned tents. The list of friends and family members that he went to visit only to find an empty spot at the evening fire was ever growing. Others were said to be still alive, but beyond anyone's reach; the Cracktooth had taken them.

How badly did the Peace Builder's roll in this war, and what is their current status?

Redium said:
From the stories the Skalds relayed to the People, the Cracktooth tribe were a vicious group. From what Priit could gather, they were as bad as South Lake had been rumoured to be in times long ago. Each of their warriors carried a belt of teeth taken from slain enemies; skilled warriors carried even more. The bones of their kills were broken and stacked in great piles, a warning to those who fought against them. As a result, the People could see the touch of war nearly everywhere in the south; seeing a full battlefield ceded to their control or even worse, the sack of a settlement, was macabre beyond compare.

The Cracktooth tribe seem like bad news as their belief in taking trophies and making displays is likely related to their magic mentioned in the leader board of bone, which they seem to see special significance in.

Redium said:
It was by far the worse fate to be captured by them. Women were taken as was often the case with raiders, but the children... They had a tendency to show up many years later, scarred and half-mad at the front of the Cracktooth's ranks. Distantly familiar faces, they were driven to kill those who had once called them kith and kin. Almost never did they respond to calls for surrender, to be reunited with their old families.

I wonder if this is related to the Cracktooth's tribe magic of beat, which could allow them to indoctrinate these children to use as psychological tools in this war?

Redium said:
East of them resided the Bitter-Water tribe. A group consumed by madness, they would charge into conflict headless of death. Arrows and spears seemed to do nothing to them. They had no fear of fire or cold. All that seemed to work against them were crushing blows that smashed their skulls. Anything less was laughed off. One of the Peace Builders even insisted that he'd seen a Bitter-Water warrior pull himself up an impaled spear so that he could tear the throat out of his killer with his teeth.

Who exactly are the Bitter-Water Tribe as they are not on the map or leader board? @Redium

From their description though it seems like they are either berserkers or just hell of drugged up enough to ignore the pain.

Redium said:
West of the Cracktooth were the Roundstone tribe. Methodical warriors, they relied heavily on a unique weapon the People had never seen before. It was a long strap of braided leather, cupped in the center so that a smooth river stone could be set inside. The contraption was whirled above the head and released, sending the river stone hurtling. Somehow, the braided leather seemed to massively amplify the power of a throw like a spear-thrower would increase a hurled javelin. It was clever: unlike arrows or javelins which often took hours to make, river stones could simply be picked up anywhere. It was a fantastic hunting tool. In war, however? It seemed to lack the punch needed to tear through wood or bone armour. It would maim or even kill unarmoured warriors, but the People and most of the other southern fighters bore armour. They seemed to be compensating for that, if the rumours of them beginning to carry great, stone-headed clubs were true.

These are their slingers. However, considering how sub-optimal slingers are in this war and in this environment, this makes me wonder if they developed these slingers for a war against a different foe in a different terrain.

I hope we fight them so we can get their slings.

Redium said:
The last threat that the People could encounter were the Catseye. Incredibly distant, only small numbers of them were ever encountered at any one time. They often struck quickly from canoes, darting in like knives and the retreating with captives and loot. They were noteable for too reasons: first, was their weapons. Hard flint knives, they were cursed things. The slightest cut was almost certain to inflict devastating wound-rot. The Catseye would often be happy with inflicting a few simple wounds before retreating and allowing their magic to do its work.

The Catseye either have poison on their weapons or they coat them in feces in order to cause wounds to get infected and rot.

Redium said:
There were rumours of another tribe, one found north and east of the Peace Builders, but those were mostly just rumours. There had been no war in that direction for generations, the Peace Builders noted. Whoever had once thought to contest the southern peninsula had retreated and not returned.

This is likely the Lakelands, though I wonder how bad they got beat to retreat like this.

Redium said:
It was into this carefully organized web of balanced tribes that the People arrived. And arrive they did with all the force of a thunderstorm. The constantly glowing Coloured Winds seemed to cow the southerners. They were unused to their nights being bathed in spiritual light; many of them hid behind their walls and ceded enormous amounts of territory without contest. The People, however, were familiar and further egged on by Horned Riders in their midst. The Coloured Winds were auspicious omens, not doom-driven.

How well did we roll to get these results?

Redium said:
A masterfully executed series of raids against the Cracktooth tribe terrified their warriors. The hounds of the Fangs filled the southern woodlands with barking growls promising a grisly end to whoever crossed the People. Echoing horns called in unison, promising a much faster, but just as fatal end. Each of the bone piles the Cracktooth were so proud of were dismantled; cracked open for marrow by the People's dogs. Their morale seemed to collapse a little bit more each time one of their ghastly totems was destroyed.

At this point it really does seem like the Cracktooth place a special value and significance upon bones.

Also, it seems our horns are paying off a lot in this war, probably as both a tool of intimidation and communication.

Redium said:
The Horned Riders served as the perfectly compliment to the wolves. While ultimately too small to really capitalize when the militia was put to flight, the caribou riders inflicted greatly disproportionate losses. Even when a large portion caribou overheated and died in the summer months, those that survived continued to prove their worth.

Glad to see our cavalry has been having a good effect here. Makes me more tempted to get Orker cavalry soon.

Redium said:
The sudden reversal in the war was great enough that Priit managed to successfully capture one of their settlements! The enemy's morale had fallen far enough that when the baying hounds surrounded their settlement, they had thrown open the palisade's gates and tried for a desperate escape. Weighed down by valuables and protecting vulnerable dependents, the great force of warriors surrounding the settlement's inhabitants failed to flee. It was a good idea, to concentrate force and then punch through the thin net that the People had laced through their territory, but it failed to taken into account the helpfulness of the Fangs and he skill of Priit's war planning.

How well did we roll for this specific instance. Also, have we rolled well enough to give the enemy a debilitating belief yet?

Redium said:
Most of the warriors were slain in battle, but the survivors were quickly bundled up. As per tradition, they were sent back to the People's lands as Debtors. It strained supplies in the short-term, but it was either taking them as Debtors or slaughtering them wholesale. It was not a proper choice.

Is this including their dependents as well?

Redium said:
In the years following the victory against the Cracktooth, Priit moved his forces east against the Bitter-Water tribe. The war bogged down against them, but that was only to be expected; the Cracktooth had taken damage much more quickly than anyone could have expected. Priit expected that it would take a few more years before the People had whittled down the numbers of the Bitter-Water warriors enough that they could safely sack their westernmost settlement. If they didn't continue to attack, it was likely the Bitter-Water would swing at the Cracktooth tribe, they could see the weakness in them just as much.

So essentially, considering how bogged down we are, we would probably be better off letting Cracktooh and Bitter-Water fight it out.

Redium said:
How should the warriors be organized into interrelated tribes?

[ ] [Tribe] Based on descent from prominent children of Kaspar.
[ ] [Tribe] Based on extended kinship of warleaders who distinguish themselves in war.
[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on common membership in a group of longhouses.
[ ] [Tribe] Grouped based on auspicious, but unclaimed, spiritual totems.
[ ] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[ ] [Tribe] Randomly assign tribes to all current warriors where they will reside permanently.

The first option here sounds like something that would promote elitism as well as potentially a belief in noble bloodlines, as we are essentially codifying that some people's blood are better than others. Also, potentially increase the importance of religion as Kaspar is seen as partially divine.

The second option also seems like an option that would boost elitism and our flat arrow outlook as it would promote excellence as it would give a goal to strive for for promising warriors. How exactly would this work out @Redium ? Would the tribes we found now be permanent or will it be a case by case basis, with tribes fluctuating, coming and going as prominent warriors come forth? Because if its the second I can see some warriors potentially using the tribes they form as a basis to essentially become Big Men in their own right by using their tribes to support their ambitions.

The third option seems like it's based on the geography or where a warrior is based, as well as their family, due to the fact that most longhouses are inhabited by interrelated family. This seems like a very stable option due to it being fixed, but at the same time, it has the potential to create friction due to its inherent nature.

The fourth option is interesting as it seems to create tribes based on specialists and specialties in warfare, which is not exactly a bad thing unless we need to create more tribes later on, as once a tribe is established, I highly doubt that the warriors in said tribe will be willing to let it be dissolved even if their way of fighting is obsolete.

The fifth option seems too disruptive as it essentially shreds apart the bonds and links of family due to the random assignment forever aspect. While it does allow the central state to prevent certain families from accruing too much power in and over a tribe, I don't really see the benefit in this system right now.

The sixth option seems too stagnant, though it does allow for certain tribes to have legacies to fall back on which will allow them to form certain identities.

Redium said:
How does Priit plan to continue the war? (Gained +1 Legitimacy due to war rolls and astrological phenomena)

[ ] [War] Continue to hammer away at the Cracktooth.
[ ] [War] Move to sack a settlement of the Bitter-Water tribe.
[ ] [War] Strike at the new Lakeland tribe.
[ ] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[ ] [War] Help the Peace Builders to rebuild from the damage they previously took.

The first option here is viable, though I don't think it is the optimal move when we can have others do our work for us.

While we could try to sack the Bitter-Water tribe, the fact that we are bogged down now makes me want to instead let them and the Cracktooth fight it out. We already have a good number of captives, no point getting too greedy.

The third option is not appealing right now, as while the Lakeland Tribe may appear weak, why create new enemies when you can get allies?

The fourth option is the best one here as we don't exactly need more enemies, while the Peace Builders could really use a good ally here to prop them up. The only downside is we know nothing about the Lakeland tribe. Then again, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

The last option, while nice sounding, does not mesh well with me. We have not yet ended the war yet, there is still more fighting to be had. Why rebuild now when what we rebuild could be demolished soon after? Besides, we took our warriors with us for this, not our builders, so this would not be optimal anyways.

Redium said:
The Debtors sent back to the People have brought an enormous amount of free labour. How should they be used?

[ ] [Debt] Put them to work in the fields. (Expand Agriculture: Corn x3)
[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)
[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)
[ ] [Debt] The lands of the south are much better organized, use that. (New Trails x2)
[ ] [Debt] Found a new settlement for them. (Found Settlement: River-Bend)
[ ] [Debt] Take them, but let them be as much as possible. (???)

Quick question on the first option here @Redium ? If we took it, would we lock down expand agriculture for corn as this would be taking this option three times, or does it need to be three times in a row? If so, I say we take it as while it may seem to encourage slavery, due to Priit still being among the living I'm pretty sure he would be enough of a voice to keep that from spreading. Getting more agriculture locked in will give us more options economically as strategically as we will have to spend less options per turn on food.

The second option is not worth it, we need three consecutive turns of Temple Building to lock in Aeva's admin techs. Besides in terms of economy, the other options are better in that completing the Temple only needs one more action, while the others represent multiple actions worth of work.

The third option is enticing as it will allow us to shorten the time necessary to go tall by locking in another hill, allowing us to possibly start another one next tunr.

When it comes to the trail option, I am curious. @Redium Will the x2 Trails essentially mean two actions worth of trails? Either way, I don't see trails as too necessary at this point.

Nope. We're going tall. Plus I would we not found a settlement with captives we just got who were known to be rather violent.

The last option on the other hand is also not appealing as letting them be could potentially allow them to fester and to maybe revolt against us, plus it would be a waste, mystery option or not.

Anywho, here's my vote.

[X] [Tribe] Grouped based on common membership in a group of longhouses.
[X] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[X] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)

From Stone to the Stars

The Necromonsieur

senseless brute

Handsome Gentleperson

Credit to Team

If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster

Pocky Eating MafiaDoka

Procrastinating.