[X] [Tribe] After they complete their training, assign warriors and their families to a tribe by lot.
[X] [War] Try to reach out to the Lakeland tribe for an alliance.
[X] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Crystal Lake x2)
I'm guessing the changes to the warrior system will be addressed later then, seeing as it is likely to take a while to implement?
In any case, with the completion of the Hill in Crystal Lake through the use of the debtors, all that is left for us to do to complete our Tall build is to start and complete the Temple and Hill for the Fingers. After that we should be able to cement our building tall strategy after three turns.
Priit slowly stood, carefully leveraging himself out of of the canoe until he could stand securely on dry land. He had never liked the smaller travel canoes and with his advancing age, that dislike was turning into a stronger and stronger distaste. The war canoes the people used up and down the Great and Valge Rivers or in Rahu Bay were superior in pretty much every way. They were larger, more stable, and could carry far more. Travel canoes capsized with a single shift in weight and could carry a mere three people. As his age crept on him, the delicate maneuver of getting in and out was becoming more and more difficult.
It looks like Priit's days are numbered. Considering the QM's mention earlier about Priit being around to start the Law Megaproject but not being there to see it's completion, I'd give Priit about a turn or two at most before he finally passes away. Kind of sad really, considering that for a Martial Hero, his exploits have expanded far past that. I've liked the way he's developed so far, especially after seeing him in his youth.
It was, however, necessary. The Lakelands were rough terrain, the lands rising and falling unpredictably in an ever expanding patchwork. For every step forward, you were more likely to have to take a half step up than not as well. The Lakeland tribes seemed to take an almost perverse pleasure in the inaccessibility of their land. More lakes dotted the region than there had ever been children born amongst the People; all of them were tangled in a mess of connecting rivers and portages. The only reason that they managed to find this place at all was the local guides that accompanied them.
The similarities between the Lakelands and the Pearl Divers is distinct. Both of them seem to rely on congregations or assemblies of sorts to run their people, while speaking seems to hold high value with them. I wonder if we will be able to use the experience we've gained from dealing with the Pearl Divers and apply it to the Lakelands?
I don't think though that the Lakelands are in a good position geographically speaking, as they don't seem to possess the advantage of having a key trade good like the salt and pearls of the Pearl Divers, nor are they powerful in other ways such as in having fierce warriors or skilled leaders. The fact that they are sandwiched between the warring tribes of the South makes me wonder about their long term chances as I expect sooner or later they will be swallowed up or forced to retreat against their larger foes.
As it was, Priit had to squint in order to see the shore so far away. The lake that he now stood on was definitely the largest that largest upon which he had ever stood. The sweetwater seas that surrounded their homes or the great salt to the east were likely larger, but they were different. To compare this lake, largest of them all, to either of those would be like comparing a mound to a mountain.
This is an interesting item to note. Rather than seeing the Great Lakes as well...lakes, it seems that the People generally view them instead as an inland sea of sorts. I'm curious to see how this belief evolves, as while the Great Lakes are not exactly analogous to the Mediterranean, if this idea of them being like seas continues then they possibly could be seen and used in a similar way.
The Komuaspaiik as their guide had termed it, was a meeting place for the Lakeland tribes. The guide wasn't exactly clear why it was a meeting place for the Lakeland tribes, but all of their people had come together since time immemorial to talk and resolve disputes on the great island on the great lake. While it was a place central to the Lakeland, it wasn't centrally located. Instead, it was near the southwestern edge of their territory. It was convenient for Priit, coming north from battles against the Bitter-Water tribe, but it also left him concerned. The place would be particularly vulnerable for the raiders that could be following in his wake if negotiations went well.
Right, after taking a look at some maps it appears to me that the big lake which the Lakeland Tribe centers around is Lake Simcoe, with the island containing their congregation point likely being Georgina Island. Just a frame of reference which might help us make decisions later on.
Taking all of the context cues into account, I'm glad to know that the curiously labeled shrine on the map for the Lakelands has been revealed to be their congregation point. Furthermore, now that we have our geographic bearings down, it's pretty clear at this point that the Bitter-Water Tribe is the Tribe of the West as their territory is directly south of the Lakelands, so that means if Priit were coming due north from battling with them it would have to be that tribe's territory.
It had taken the People years to get to this point; the Lakeland tribe had been deeply skeptical of the Fanged Folk wanting to talk to them. Many had said that it was more likely the People were planning to devour them and their children! It had taken gentle coaxing, gifts exchanged and long days spend in negotiation after negotiation had all led to this moment. It had not been a work of Priit's own. His presence was merely the maple sugar sprinkled on top of the work of a dozen cooks. Putting himself within the heart of the Lakelands' power was a concession; he would be at their mercy, even as he was able to address their congregation.
Glad to see that even without Aeva being around to temper Priit's actions that we were still able to conduct diplomacy effectively. It seems to me though that this cautiousness of the Lakelands tribe is likely a value or theirs, possibly even a debilitating one formed from a reaction of their losses earlier in their time when they warred with the rest of the South.
I'm somewhat curious,
@Redium did Priit come alone to negotiate and speak with the Lakelands?
For the People, governance was simply a matter of finding the one individual, the Big Man, that could cajole the rest of the tribe to go along with their wisdom and wishes. Leadership between settlements was profoundly weak; it was an insult at best for one Big Man to intervene within the following of another. Even if it was an insult that happened all the time, if to little success.
It seems to me we are having a brewing problem with our current system of government from what Priit is indicating. I am not entirely sure if he is referencing the current situation or the past where Big Men from one settlement would interfere with the others, but in any case the fact that he refers to it as a recurring issue and an insult likely tells me that we will need to deal with this soon.
I can't be entirely sure what the solutions to this are right now, but based on our current strategy and my gut instinct, it seems to me that we will need to decentralize and create a position of a Big Man to rule over all of the People like Kaspar did in fact if not law. After all, having a bigger big man oversee the whole of the people and squabbles of the lesser Big Men would likely ease tensions somewhat, plus it would fit well with our Tall strategy.
The Lakelands were almost the complete opposite. Their government was ultimately driven by consensus. Everyone, no matter how great or how small, was permitted to speak their peace, to sway others with their honeyed words. It seemed to be impossible for them to find any one Big Man to fall behind. Instead, they had countless Little Men who would lead a band of one or two dozen at most, usually kith and kin.
So how exactly did the Lakelands even form as a distinct entity then when they are so spread out and likely related to each other only through distant marriages?
The only exception to that was the Congregation.
Occurring once every five years, it was an absolutely enormous gathering of the Lakelands' disparate bands. Everyone attended. Without exception. It was at these Congregations that the great needs of the Lakelands would be addressed. The debates could last for many moons as everyone argued ceaselessly. Eventually, however, the winter's winds would begin to blow and the Lakelands would be forced to cease their debates. Questions of war, peace, building, settlements, marriages, everything would be settled. To refuse would invite reprisal; no one wanted to be trapped far from their homes when the lakes and rivers — the only way the bands had to move — froze solid.
The Congregation was absolute. To defy it was unthinkable. Priit's guide has explained once the word they used for individuals who opposed the Congregation's will. It meant to his understanding 'The Ones Offered', in the exact same context that an Ember-Eye would 'offer up' an amethyst to the kiln for purification to citrine.
So at these Congregations, while I get that they debate among each other what is to be done among the group as a whole, how do they then decide how certain issues need to be addressed? Is it essentially a direct democracy where each person has a voice and gets a say on the issue, or something more archaic?
What exactly is preventing a stubborn minority who disagrees with the rest of the Congregation from say just splitting themselves off from the rest of the tribe and going it alone?
Renegades were offered to the lakes that had birthed the tribe, but forbidden from actually joining the holy bodies as was proper at death. Instead, they died on land with their remains burned; drowned in a shallow bucket.
That's a rather interesting...belief. I wonder what they do with the buckets afterwards?
Once the Congregation was declared open on the longest day of the year, Priit was in his element. He was not the greatest speaker, even amongst the People, but there was one area in which he excelled: stories of glory and bloody songs of victory. The tales the would inspire young men to act and to war. The months that the Congregation took to decide anything allowed him to speak to countless groups of young, ambitious men. It was a careful act, to stoke the passions of those who felt ignored by the greater group. All of them were hunters; providers for kith and kin; but they were always sidelined. The elders preached the values of caution. Mothers thought of equity and shaman preached values of serenity and unity.
With an organizational system like this, especially when you consider the fact that the leader board lists their main economic method being hunter gatherer, this system seems bound to collapse or be overturned when you shun the group who provides most of the food and has a good monopoly on the violence.
Those were not the things that filled a man's belly or kept his bed warm at night.
Further, they were shamed for their desire for glory. Hunting a great beast meant that it was likely some would die, wasting their lives and harming their families by their absence. Those that did manage to bring down bear, moose, or orker, were disparaged. 'The meat is near rotten,' the elders would say, 'Barely enough fat to justify cutting it off the bone,' they would add as they greedily took their own portion. When the hunters went out into the snowy depths of the Cursed Time, they were treated as... Debtors, and even that comparison was incomplete. Debtors were never so lowly. Women with whom the young men had discovered themselves were torn from them, given over to 'proper men' twice their age!
There was an angry hunger simmering just under the surface of the Lakeland tribe. All it needed was just the right spark; the hardest part was in ensuring that the conflagration didn't go off too early.
Yeah...if we didn't come along to direct their anger in another direction, it seems like the hunters of the tribes would've revolted at this rate. There is only so much one can take after all, and I can see how their plight might have resonated with Priit.
What would've happened
@Redium if we didn't come and speak to the Lakelands, in terms of their internal issue?
As the moons rolled by and the winter's winds drew ever closer, Priit knew that his course of action was the correct one. Negotiating with the elders, the matrons, and the band leaders would have gotten him nowhere. They as a whole seemed to disdain martial pursuits. There would be no talks of alliance with them. Not when they spread tales of what it had been like, once, to fight in the south; they were stories full of grief. The closest that they allowed the Lakeland tribe to come to violence was in their occasional flights from Bitter-Water raiders.
Yeah, this makes things much more clear. It seems to me that their current system was probably born from their likely losses in the wars of the south, with the current system being created to prevent them from repeating the mistakes which likely cost them before, which is why they are in this situation right now.
It was a belief that only hardened and hardened as young men (prompted by Priit) spoke about the horrors of the Bitter-Water tribe. Of the indignities done to the women that the enemy took and the mutilated remains of brave hunters they had left for the Lakelands to find. It was subtle, but there was a definite up-ticking as the moons passed. It culminated in an impassioned speech given by a young man who had lost everything. His parents, his siblings, his entire band had simply been wiped out or taken south by the Bitter-Water tribe. He had nothing left to live for.
I'm guessing it's lucky for them that we came along as we did. As by directing their anger at a known enemy, we likely helped them avert a Civil War of sorts.
"I will go south to join them," the young man promised. "One way," he hefted a heavy set of bow and arrows, "Or another."
"If you're set on going, you will join your family," one of the elders promised. Two guards approached with obsidian-pointed spears. "This Congregation will now allow any to go south and bring another disastrous war. Death and disaster is all that comes of such foolishness." The boy seemed to wilt. "You do not wash out blood with more blood. Begone. Return once you've aged and gained enough experience to know how the world works." The two guards reached out to grab the outspoken boy.
"No."
The boy seemed to start as every eye in the Congregation focused upon him. It took seconds more for him to realize that he was the one that had spoken.
"No," the boy said again, voice gaining in volume. "I refuse. I refuse you and I refuse this entire damned Congregation! You decry again and again and again the use of violence and force. When questions, it's the first tool that you reach for! When hunters spill blood to bring down moose and deer to fill your bellies, you denigrate us. When we stay behind to fight, to provide a few more desperate hours for the women and children to run from the maddened warriors of the south, you shake your heads and cluck your tongues. When the forests need to be burned so that we can plant crops, who is it the stays on land with torch in hand while everyone else retreats to the water?"
The young man was huffing, corded muscles swelling as if he had just run from dusk to dawn. His skin was flushed and his voice had risen to an echoing clarion call. "I name you hypocrite! Fool! Blasphemer and traitor!"
"Guards," the elder said simply, "Fetch the bucket."
They move to comply, but froze as soon as the young man knocked an arrow. It wasn't pulled back, yet, but it was clear the young man could loose it and hit one of the guards before the got close enough to use their spears. The second guard would run the young man through, but neither of the guards wanted to chance that they would be the one shot dead.
Everything seemed to freeze.
A second later, another young hunter stood up, drawing his bow and pointing it at the guardsmen. Three seconds later and another five had risen to join them. Within minutes there were more hunters standing than Priit could count.
He had picked his demagogue well. The young man had been nervous, but beneath that facade was a born leader. The type of person who could slap a friend on the back and get them to follow him into the teeth of the enemy with a grin on their face.
Hearing it from the hunter hear, it's hard to not agree with him when they behave as hypocritically as they do. Decrying him for using violence but then responding to his questions with violence.
Considering how easily we were able to stoke the fires raging within the hunters of the tribe and have them turn against the system, it seems like this was a long time coming. Especially considering how quick they were to consider violent resistance. It makes me wonder how the Elders, Matrons, and Shamans maintained their control over the hunters in the first place when the hunters could easily just use violence to overtake them.
I'm curious to see how the Lakelands develop now after this change of direction as it seems stark.
Priit gave the dog at his feet one last belly scratch as he stood and allowed the Congregation to 'agree' to send men south against the Bitter-Water tribe, alongside the People. His goal was accomplished. Why was it then that his insides felt rotten?
I'm guessing Priit is not the type who prefers dealing with the conniving methods needed for politics? Not too surprising considering how much politics screwed him before. Although I'm guessing a good portion of the disgust he is feeling is towards himself is he is basically using the Lakelands' hunters plight in order to help his own agenda.
What happened to the Congregation after that point I wonder, while I get that they agreed to send their hunters south to assist us against the Bitter-Water Tribe, it makes it seem like they did so at arrow point. Has a hunters faction formed among them now or have the hunters just taken control directly?
Regardless of his discomfort, convincing the Lakeland tribes to fight on the People's side proved to be the correct decision. The war in the south had turned noticeably against the Cracktooth tribe. Losing one settlement and having their morale devastated by the People's attacks left them out of position and hurting. Based on the reports of scouts, they had managed to launch one offensive, deep into the Bitter-Water tribe's southern heartlands. They had either found or triggered something there; all of the Bitter-Water tribe's numerous warriors had converged and desperately smashed the offensive before ravaging the Cracktooth's heartlands.
Considering the locations on the map and the borders between the two tribes, my best guess as to what the Cracktooth Tribe hit that likely enraged the Bitter-Water Tribe so much as to send all of their warriors in that direction was one of their vineyards where they probably grow the grapes necessary to make their bitter water. Or they could've hit a holy site of some sort without knowing what it was.
The only thing that prevented them from dealing irreparable harm to the Cracktooth were the intervention of the People and Lakelands. The single minded focus the Bitter-Water tribe had on destroying the Cracktooth left a gap in their defenses. Using that, under Priit's gaze, the People's warriors burned to the ground one of the Bitter-Water isolated northern settlements. The residents there were taken prisoner, some were sent to reward the Lakelands, but others returned to the People as Debtors, swelling their numbers larger than could ever be recalled.
I'm curious, how much help were the Lakelands Tribe to our fight against the Bitter-Water Tribe? Because when you consider the strategic situation, it seems that we could've done well even without their help.
In any case the war seems to have gone rather well for us all things taken into consideration. We sacked and destroyed two settlements, one belonging to the Cracktooth, the other to the Bitter-Water, and we gained useful captors/debtors that will likely help us finish our affairs at home faster. Though considering the rate at which we are acquiring debtors, I think we should probably avoid more raiding until we can successfully absorb them before they cause too much trouble for us, or before we become too accustomed to having debtor/slave labor.
The war in the south slowly settled down as the Cracktooth and Bitter-Water tribe glared hatefully at each other across expanses of forest. Both of them had been injured, the former more than the latter. It was impossible to take advantage of it, however, due to the knife of the Lakelands waiting in the hills north of the Bitter-Water tribe. The Cracktooth couldn't take advantage of that, because of the Roundstone and Catseye tribes hiding in the west. The second that the Cracktooth moved warriors from the west to bring additional pressure on their enemies, the Roundstone would attack viciously.
I mean this is probably the best result we could've hoped for when it came to our actions, as having some form of balance of power with a form of deterrence in effect makes it so that we won't have to come back again soon to knock heads. There was no realistic way for us with the numbers we had to essentially crush all of the Peace Builder's enemies so quickly, as even if we did crush one of the tribes that arguably could've been a worse result than what we have right now as that would allow another tribe the time and opportunity to gobble up that land and expand massively.
Throughout it all, the Peace Builders could quietly sit, lick their wounds, and consolidate their gains.
The Peace Builders made gains? Did they even fight alongside us much for the war, as it seems like we did pretty much most of the fighting from what the previous two updates indicated?
Or does gains mean buffer space and breathing room here as we essentially neutralized the closest enemy settlements nearest to them, thus allowing them more room to recover?
How does our alliance with the Lakelands relate to the Peace Builders? Are they in an alliance with them too, or are they strictly in alliance with us and only for this one turn? I think it might be important to know what exactly we committed to when we asked to ally with the Lakelands Tribe as I'd rather not take another hit to diplomacy like we did when we pulled out of the war against South Lake and our diplo stat took a huge hit to it for us being untrustworthy.
It wasn't a stable situation, however. Already, rumours floated from the west of a warlord rising among the Catseye, pressing the Roundstone harder than they had in generational memory. The second that the Roundstone looked away to deal with them, the Cracktooth would either take advantage of that, or fully turn to the Bitter-Water tribe.
This should probably be emphasized as it tells us that the situation as we know it now isn't likely going to last. The current balance of power is due to the fact that we as an unknown faction essentially came out of nowhere and decimated two other tribes and sacked their settlements, with an uneasy peace forming due to both tribes having a knife ready to strike at their backs. In the scenario presented to us here it would probably be better for us if the Cracktooth sandwiched the Roundstone and attacked them alongside the Catseye as while it will disrupt the balance of power somewhat it won't be the same as the Cracktooth taking out the Bitter-Water Tribe and gaining the fertile land of the south for which they could use to expand their population. Even if the Cracktooth and Catseye succeed in defeating the Roundstone, they will still have each other to deal with, meaning the Cracktooth likely won't be able to then focus down the Bitter-Water tribe, and the Bitter-Water Tribe can't entirely focus down on the Cracktooth unless the Catseye are really successful and continue the war against the Cracktooth this time. If the Cracktooth focus down the Bitter-Water Tribe I expect the Lakelands to exploit that, though I doubt either side will be able to fully defeat the Bitter-Water Tribe due to how expansive they are.
Either way, there may be a case for us to raid the Peace Builders' enemies again in order for us to have an influence on how the balance of power in this region tilts, as while the Peace Builders are recovering it still seems like they are in a precarious situation. Or we could just ignore them and let the chips fall where they may.
Still, the time of relative peace gave Priit time to finally return home after years in the field.
He was glad he did: everything was a mess.
Well, that's not too surprising, there's always another crisis waiting for us around the corner.
Aeva had finally died several years before, falling into confusion and weakness before simply falling to the ground dead a few hours later. Arguments sprung up in the aftermath almost immediately afterwards, before her body was even cold. What should be done? Who should lead us? How do we support the war? The People of Crystal Lake were paralyzed by indecision. Numerous pretenders immediately sprung up, trying to claim the title of Big Man and follow in Aeva's footsteps. The problem was, no one was able to fill those shoes. Every attempted leader simply lacked the necessary draw to bull most of the settlement's population into following them.
So, just to be clear, is there even a Big Man right now for Crystal Lake
@Redium ?
They seemed to lack some... quality that a leader needed to have. Kaspar-In-Flesh had it and his daughter, Aeva, had it as well. There were rumours that Priit might have it, but they were yet whispers. As a war leader in the south, he was simply too distant to be assessed by the average person, despite the effuse praise from the returning warriors.
I'm assuming this is referring to when the succession problems took place, as Priit is back home now?
When Aeva was finally laid alongside her father, the People spoke about the qualities that made Aeva worthy of the honour. The Cave of Stars was not large; there needed to be some criteria by which people were interred there. Some marker of greatness that set them apart from the common people. Aeva deserved it, but on what merits?
This is curious, did Aeva pre-arrange to be interred alongside Kaspar, or is this another new development of ours regarding the Cave of Stars and the Temple located there? It would be interesting if this developed into a trend, as in religiously. Though I doubt we will start using salt to make mummies and build temples everywhere to inter our dead.
There had to be something special, because the old system no longer worked. Violence had erupted at Hill Guard as warriors filtered back up from the south. Several leaders newly acclaimed to their position returned wrapped in glory and overthrew the feuding Big Men that had thought themselves the potential rulers of the settlement. The numbers of murders were small, but they were increasing. If something was not done, then the entire settlement could explode into strife. Violence, the People had learned, could create authority; it just required someone willing to seize it. Most of those attempting to become Big Men in the old style had been slain. Nearly all of the competitors were now long-time warriors. Only a few of the original contenders remained and they rapidly grew even harder and harsher than those who returned from the south.
The only advantage that Priit knew he had was that his dominance of the People was unquestioned. He was acclaimed leader of the Fingers and Crystal Lake bowed to him as a successor of Kaspar-In-Flesh and Aeva. Hill Guard was too disorganized to resist; even if they might have wanted to, most of the warriors aspiring to be Big Men had fought under his command and offered him deep respect. If he were to make a proclamation, none would be able to gainsay him.
Without looking at the stats I think we may have outgrown our previous system. We haven't really done anything to change the transitional governmental system we had before, nor had we addressed the issue that inherently comes with our Flat Arrow Outlook value. Kaspar was universally seen as a clear leader and Big Man, which made it so that the issue never came up as no one likely was willing to compete for his seat in the first place, while Aeva as the clear successor with her own great attributes made it so that the issue never came up. Now that Kaspar is essentially a legend, and Aeva is dead, our system now has to face the issue of how we are governed. All of this taken into account with our recent bloody history and our raising of more warriors to fight our wars makes it inevitable that power struggles would break out.
To me though, there does appear to be a clear solution to our problem here. Centralize. With Aeva dead, leaving Crystal Lake without a clear Big Man, and the contenders for Hill Guard's seat essentially being former subordinates and warriors who respect Priit, it seems clear to me that Priit could essentially elevate himself if need be to the position of Bigger Man, or the Big Man who reigns over the Big Man of the Settlements. A King in essence.
Priit right now has enough political clout to essentially appoint a successor to his seat at the Fingers, as well as play Kingmaker for the other two settlements. If we start the Law Megaproject right now we can essentially enshrine in law how to handle these succession disputes now and into the future. Considering how we are going tall rather than wide, we will want to centralize, meaning we will need to create a central authority in the form of a King who rules over all of the People, and Priit seems to be that man right now, even if it is fleeting.
Faction Strife (Priit's Warriors): Resolved! +1 Prestige
Neat, what exactly was it that made it so we resolved it this turn?
The only questions was how to create something, a system that would ensure the People's current disruption would never return. He had seen the spiritual organization of the Northlands. He had witnessed the greed and force used to maintain the system of Arrow Lake. The assemblies of the Pearl Divers were familiar to him. The sacred council of the Peace Builders were close allies that he had fought alongside for years. Even the Lakeland's Congregation was familiar to him after years of negotiations.
None of those systems were perfect. No system, no person, or spirit was.
Priit knew that: his life was a product of mistakes made by the great. To assume that he could do better than Kaspar-In-Flesh or even Aeva was foolish. It was arrogant in the extreme. Profoundly so.
There was only one Priit could possibly see that might make things different: he knew that things would be twisted by successors to suit their needs. He knew that the People would make mistakes. He didn't need perfection, he needed something that would always be good enough.
I don't think a spiritual organization will work too well for us, at least not right now as I don't think we currently have a centralized enough religious system of beliefs for that to mesh with our current values.
Arrow Lake's system is right out as Priit doesn't like how they are organized in the first place and I think people here are rather averse to introducing true slavery.
The assemblies of the Pearl Divers seems too mercantile right now to work for us, plus it seems more fitting or a wide rather than tall civilization.
The Sacred Council of the Peace Builders is too shaman focused I think for it to work with us.
Lakeland's Congregational system seems too disorganized, especially as we still have the issue of distance to deal with, and also not in line with our values.
All things considered if we want stability I think we may need some kind of system that plays off our current Big Man system but with an additional layer of centralization and hierarchy. With the Stone Age Law project coming up we likely could implement rules that could allow us to do exactly that, though considering the trends so far in this quest I don't people will vote in a monarchy anytime soon even though it is an option.
What were the Debtors tasked with doing?
[ ] [Debt] Put them to work in the fields. (Expand Agriculture: Corn x3)
[ ] [Debt] Have them finish the half-built temple. (Raise Temple: Crystal Lake)
[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Fingers x2)
[ ] [Debt] Found a new settlement for them. (Found Settlement: River-Bend)
[ ] [Debt] Several of the Debtors captured were makers of the tribe's eponymous bitter water. Make them produce some for the People. (???)
[ ] [Debt] Take them, but let them be as much as possible. (???)
To be honest, there are only two or three options among this one that really appeal to me.
Similar to last time, the corn option is appealing to me. Aside from the fact that it would massively expand our food stores and boost our economy, the hint from the QM about how it could have interesting side effects due to our People for the first time not needing to worry about their next meal is intriguing to me. The issues concerning slavery still apply, especially considering our increased numbers of debtors, but this issue should be considered in any case.
Again, like last time, I would rather we use this option more efficiently by having the debtors be used in more action efficient choices, as we can complete the Temple this turn on our own to fulfill our Supernal Symphony requirement and spend the debtor option on other more lucrative choices.
One of those choices being another Hill. If we take another hill now we are likely to lock down all three settlements having hills at this stage, making it so that in three turns at around turn 22 we will have it locked in as a standard option for our settlements, which at the very least lowers the timeframe for getting all of these buildings locked in and shortens the amount of turns it will take before we can finally expand with a new settlement.
As we are going for the tall instead of the wide strategy I would rather we not found a new settlement, especially as I don't think they have fully integrated enough for it to be a worthwhile and trusty endeavor.
The other option that seems plausible this turn and possibly very lucrative is gaining the knowledge of how to make bitter water. Getting this will likely improve the spirits and open up another avenue of study for the People. However I am somewhat skeptical of our chances of getting to this work, as while you can use corn to make whiskey, I am not entirely sure we are guaranteed to succeed with this option as the Bitter-Water Tribe has something unique which likely allows them to produce the Bitter-Water they are known for, their wine grape orchards. Unless the debtors came with wine grape seeds, I think our chances of this succeeding may be lower than expected.
Finally, the last mystery option isn't too appealing to me as it doesn't really offer any inherent value for us, especially as leaving them be might cause animosity to arise from the Cracktooth debtors we took in.
Looking back on Aeva's legacy, why do the People think that she was worthy to be a leader?
[ ] [Aeva] Aeva was an Ember-Eye: always in touch with the spirits.
[ ] [Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
[ ] [Aeva] Aeva was Great within her fields of experience.
[ ] [Aeva] Aeva brought Success to her endevours.
[ ] [Aeva] There really wasn't anything that made Aeva more worthy than any other. (-1 Legitimacy)
The first option will likely make it so that only a member of the Holy Orders or a shaman can become a leader for the People, thus increasing their power but potentially at the expense of our Flat Arrow Outlook value. If we want to become more religiously oriented with a more theocratic bent to society, I suppose this would be the option to choose.
The second option is the one that will probably enshrine the idea of aristocracy, noble blood lines, and potentially monarchy within the psyche of the People. Great if we want to centralize, and it will likely solve some of the current succession issues we are dealing with, especially if there are other members of Kaspar's bloodline.
The third option is the most meritocratic of the options offered here, keeping in line with or IWTBTVB value, and making it clear that the Leaders of the People likely need to be Great within their field. This seems to be a continuation of the same policies as beforehand, so I'm not entirely sure if this will reform anything and help deal with the issue of succession. While it's great to have a Hero and someone with expertise be the leader, that's not always possible, and as shown here when there are no clear options making it so strife and confusion ensue. Then again, maybe when combined with the Law Megaproject we might be able to codify a way for Big Men to be chosen more formally without needing to have people murder each other in the streets, like a series of contests or something to prove worth.
The last option doesn't seem to offer us anything worthwhile, and more importantly seems like it would make things worse by throwing our current system of belief and government into question. I like the way things are going so I don't really see the need to throw everything out wholesale.
Annual Festival [Art] - The People deserve to party! Build morale by opening up the stockpiles and having a night of feasts, dancing, music and fun.
Not worth it, we can instead complete the Temple at Crystal Lake instead to gain the stability and legitimacy this might give us.
Expand Hunting (Dogs, Orkers, Traps, Herd Animals, Prize Animals) [Martial] - Improve upon the hunting techniques of the People. Work to increase the amount of meat that is available to consume and empower the People. A risky activity and one that requires a great investment of skill and energy, this provides the largest gains of food.
Considering we have a free martial option available due to Priit, this is enticing to me. First of all, I am writing this when the front page has yet to be updated so keep that in mind when it comes to my assertions. In any case, if we still remain at the small surplus level of economics, I think a case could be made that we should try to expand our current food supply in case the worst happens and another climate disaster occurs and throws our economy towards the brink. Right now we are still sending two tiers of our food output to the Mountain Clans. I would rather not risk that blowing up in our face because the dice decided to screw with us and causing us to cut them off because we ourselves need all the food we can get.
The hunting with dog option is one of the safer options in that it is likely to succeed and also likely to give us potential benefits regarding our canine companions.
The Orker option is a risky one even with a 60% chance of success, however I think it should be considered as if we want Orker cavalry we are going to have to take this option eventually, though hopefully later we will have enough actions to choose this in conjunction with study travel to gain the cavalry.
Traps are likely something that could benefit us later both in making hunting easier for all, as well as potential military applications. Not likely to be the most lucrative option economy wise though.
Herd animals are also likely to be safe, and might be more beneficial once we integrate the Northlands, another safe option.
Prize animals is another risky choice, and one I think not worth the risk as we don't stand to gain much from the option compared to the other risky option.
Expand Agriculture (Quinoa, Gourds, Corn) [Admin] - The People have come to realize the bounty of the world is often not enough. They need to tame it and carefully manage the foods that are so important in sating their appetites.
As quinoa is locked in already as an agricultural choice, and gourds not seeming to synchronize with any of the potential other applications like the Three Sisters, if we need to take an agricultural action, which I don't think we do, I'd rather we take corn in the future both for its variety of uses as a staple crop, and for the Three Sisters megaproject.
Expand Aquaculture (Wild Rice, Mussels, Fishing) [Admin] - Most of the People live close to a river and are able to gather one of numerous sources of food. Often much easier to obtain than food from hunting and much less risky, these sources of food are much more vulnerable to shifts of the seasons and that of the weather.
We already have wild rice and fishing locked in, so I don't see the need to do mussels this turn especially when we have more pressing needs.
Explore (Specify?) [Martial] [Diplomacy] - There is much to be found in the world. Countless things, often placed by the hand of the spirits themselves. It is up to the People to find them.
Another potential use of our martial slot, however since we are going tall rather than wide, I don't think it's necessary to discover any more wonders when we can barely expand as we are now anyways.
Found Settlement (includes: Brick Wall, Shrine, Sugar Shack) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] - While the People build homes where they will, often where food or resources can easily be found, these places are settled without organization or care. By founding a formal settlement, it becomes possible for central authority to exert itself before the People become too fracas. (Requires: 2 tiers of Econ and excess population. Available locations: North Bay, River Fork, River Bend, Wide River. 1 settlement possible to found.)
As said earlier we are trying to go tall rather than wide, so I'd rather wait until we get Temples and Hills locked down first.
Manage Forests (Sugar, Timber, Medicine, Gathering) [Admin] - While the forests provide the least of the People's food, they have provided that which is most useful. Sugar is wonderous in taste and highly sought after as a trade goods. Evergreen tea soothes aching bodies and quiets headaches. There is much to be found in the unknown, perhaps rare, but of significant value.
If Aeva were still alive I'd love to get sugar production locked in. Alas, she is not, so this will have to be put off for later.
Promote Folk Wrestling [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] - The People are fracas and have a tendency towards physical confrontations and violence. By carefully channeling this tendency, it's possible to develop further skill at war and turn hunters into skilled and deadly raiders.
As far as martial options goes this isn't really useful as unless we pair it with a raid choice it's not going to get much use as we don't have any foes close enough for war to occur on our territory.
Raid ((Mountain Clans, Arrow Lake, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Peace Builders, Enemies of the Peace Builders)) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Retributive Justice] [Martial] - The hunting of beasts turns now into the hunting of men. Strike down those who oppose the People so that we may be kept safe.
Potentially something we can spend our martial choice on by raiding the Enemies of the Peace Builders to make the situation down there more to our favor. However, since we aren't forced to raid them or face the pain of stability loss, we can choose to withhold from this choice this turn. Considering Priit is still alive for this turn at least, if we did raid them I expect this turn is the last one where we can be assured of our success as I doubt he will live past the next turn.
Study Travel [Art] - Invest time in learning how most effectively to travel. The world is harsh and strange, learning how to traverse it will save the People much in effort and food.
Study Fire [Art] - The greatest and most capricious of spirits, fire is of immense use to the People. The recent discovery of lime and the founding of the Ember-Eyed has spurred substantial interest in developing understanding of this forceful spirit further.
Study Stone [Art] - A solid and stable spirit, the People have found numerous type of stone with different properties. How these properties can be best served to support the People is unknown. Learning to work the material will likely pay enormous dividends in the future.
Won't really help us with Supernal Symphony and not really necessary at this point, so I'd pass on this.
Trade (Arrow Lake, Peace Builders, Pearl Divers, Island Makers, Northlands, Mountain Clans) [Diplomacy] [Martial] - It is clear that the People do not hold all that is significant within the world. There are other tribes that hold interesting, useful or beautiful objects. By offering up some as gifts, things that the People do not have will be provided in return.
Considering we already have three of the six locked in for trade, two of the others are our allies, and the last one is too far away from us to really affect us, I don't think we need to trade with anyone this turn as we already have the trade goods we need already from those we do trade with. Potentially a useful option when it comes to spending our martial slot though, especially if we use it trade with the Peace Builders who are busy rebuilding.
Train Warriors (Warriors, Holy Order) [Flat Arrow Outlook] [Martial] [Admin] - The People have warriors well trained in the art of killing. By diverting more young people into these professions, preparations for war can be established. In a way, it is like knapping obsidian into a knife. An action that takes deliberation and planning, forethought, to be useful.
While it would be nice to make training warriors a locked action, I'm not entirely sure if we need to do so at this juncture. Firstly, if we did train warriors, similar to my argument against folk wrestling I doubt that we will get to utilize these newly trained warriors at this juncture as it isn't worth it to pair it with raiding this turn, and we are too far away from any potential foes for these trained warriors to fight. Secondly, considering our current succession issues at the moment, I do not think it would be wise to train more violent warriors and throw them into the mix without solving that issue first. Finally, due to not knowing whether or not tribute choices will affect locking in a choice or not, I don't think choosing to train warriors as an option will make a difference in that yet.
Prepare for Ordeal [Trial By Fire] [Admin] - The spirits test the People, always. These tests are ones that require careful preparation and forethought. The People will be prepared. A crisis well managed is a sign of spiritual favour, one that's botched causes the People to further suffer.
Already locked in.
The Dam [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (6 Actions) - Inspired by the feats of ingenuity demonstrated by a large, but common, rat, the People have decided to emulate their creations on a more massive scale. By blockaded a river, it would be possible to accumulate an enormous amount of water, something that could easily be put to use.
While I would like to get this eventually, so that we can get started on a canal project that was mentioned tens of pages ago, this is not a pressing megaproject. We not yet have the agriculture to fully make use of this anyway.
The Law [Retributive Justice] [Admin] (4 Actions) - The People have countless stories and man ways of living. How is it that they are to determine the best way that one should live, both as an individual and as a member of a greater family? These traditions are opaque, constantly shifting and at times contradictory. Improvement and codification needs to be made for the People to benefit.
This is the goal most of us have been aiming for ever since Priit took over the POV and his faction gained prominence. When it comes to tall civilizations, this one megaproject will likely have the longest lasting impact on our civilization as a whole. When it comes to building tall you need to have stability and advanced enough social structures in order to leverage the cultural and scientific advantages that come from building tall. Having a codified set of laws that are set in stone for all to see and to reference will likely make it so that as whole we are not beset by as drastic or dangerous of social crises as we have before. For Priit this project will likely have special meaning as it will be likely his solution to the injustice that was done to him long ago. At least this way we can make it so that our society's structure is clear for all. Furthermore by creating a code of laws we will likely be forming the bedrock for a more advanced People farther down the line. This code of laws will likely be enshrined in the identity of the People, and will likely be a way for us to resolve some of the current issues we are dealing with now such as the succession crises. While this may only be four actions worth of effort, the reforms it enable will likely last far longer than that.
The World in Miniature [Supernal Symphony] [Diplomacy] [Admin] (7 actions) - The world is a grand place, seemingly endless in scope. The People's exploration and search for wonders has pushed them to find a way to more effectively communicate discoveries with each other. Trail markers are a start, but they are not easily portable. More can be done.
While this is a megaproject we will need to eventually take up, if only to speed up our development of writing, now is not the time as we don't have the need for it, nor the actions for it.
Archaic Charcoal Kilns (Crystal Lake, Hill Guard, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] [Art] - The Ember-Eyes have discovered a secret of wood and fire. By carefully burning it, they can render it blackened and fragile. Somehow, this makes fire burn far hotter. How is it the elements dance when burning wood is not the same as wood cooked by fire?
Useful, and cheap all things considered but not yet something we need in terms of our general strategy.
Extend Fire Relay (Hill Guard) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (1 Action) - The Fire Relay has served as the backbone of the People's communication and movement between The Fingers and Crystal Lake for longer than memory. With the recent founding of Hill Guard, the vaunted relay no longer stitches the People from one end to the other. This oversight must be corrected.
Similar to the above, I think this can wait as we still need to pursue the buildings we need to get locked in for future settlements.
Raise Temple (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] [Art] (2 Actions) - A ritual place where the spirits and those they touch can work. Special facilities for magic, resources, teachings and the spirits themselves are included.
Right now the Crystal Lake Temple is halfway completed, we should probably finish it this turn so we can get one step closer to finishing all of the buildings we need to lock in for our future expansion. This also accomplishes the Supernal Symphony requirement for this turn.
The Hill (Crystal Lake, The Fingers) [Supernal Symphony] [Admin] (2 Actions) - A hill made by man. A simple construct, but one that greatly raises the defensive value of a settlement.
I'd rather we finish the Temple first rather than start another hill. In any case, isn't the Hill for Crystal Lake already built
@Redium ? Meaning we only need one more Hill at The Fingers?
New Trails [Wondrous World] [Admin] (9 or 12 Actions) - Inspired by the Fire Relay, these small trails are cut into the innumerable forests that surround the People. Serving as akin to veins in the body, they promote the free movement of goods and people.
Useful, but not needed yet.
Tribute Foci
Defense - Walls, Defensive Structures, Trails, Folk Wrestling
Food - Agriculture, Aquaculture, Herding, Hunting
Magic - Study Fire, Study Stone, Study Travel
Megaprojects - Current Megaproject
Rural Infrastructure - Settlements, New Trails, Manage Forests
Spirits - Temples, Ordeals, Festivals
Urban Infrastructure - Temples, Walls, Festivals, Trade
War - Raids, Train Warriors, Folk Wrestling
World - New Trails, Exploring, Trade, Hunting
In terms of Tribute choices I think we should try to to finish the Law Megaproject in a timely manner, as it seems like our current succession crises are tied to it, and the sooner we restore stability the better.
Automatic Actions: Trade (Arrow Lake, Northlands, Pearl Divers), Expand Aquaculture (Rice, Fishing), Prepare for Ordeal, Manage Hunting
Isn't Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) locked in too?
@Redium
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) -> Organized Plots LOCKED IN
Pick: 2 Actions, 1 Tribute Focus, and 1 Martial Action.
In terms of votes for this turn here are my choices:
[] Plan Setting Foundations
-[ ] [Debt] Moving dirt builds character. (The Hill: Fingers x2)
-[ ] [Aeva] Aeva was the daughter of Kaspar and born to rule.
-[ ] [Action] The Law
-[ ] [Action] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake)
-[ ] [Martial] Manage Hunting (Orkers)
-[ ] [Tribute] Megaprojects
AN: Voting is currently locked until the morning where I unlock it. The front page hasn't been updated yet (you lost 1 Stability due to civil strife in Hill Guard and gained a bunch of prestige). Further, I have been thinking of changing the game system with the upcoming Law reform. A pure narrative approach isn't offering as much challenge as I wanted. Often times there's little meaningful choice involved; I would like for decisions to be harder. If anyone has any thoughts on possible reforms, it would be greatly appreciated.
In terms of ideas for how you could possibly add more challenge to the quest. I'm not entirely sure how you could alter the quest in order to make it more challenging without going against some of the core principles you established the quest on in the first place. For example one way you could make the quest more challenging at least in terms of mechanics and format is to add more mechanics and numbers for the players to deal with, thus making it harder for the players to calculate what options to choose. However while this would make the quest more challenging I doubt it is the way you want it to be challenging, as while consensus is easily reached and often bandwagons form in the current iteration, as you well know it is likely that introducing more numbers and mechanics would make it so that only those with either the knowledge of how the math works or those with the inclination would likely be making the plans, thus ensuring bandwagons formed anyway.
The only other recommendation I have regarding reforming the quest is by adding another mechanic that would make things harder for us to balance, but one that makes sense within the confines of the system, such as by having factions or groups form ala Paradox games where we need to cater our policies simply not towards what we believe is the good of the People but towards the short term and often contradictory goals of the factions within the People, making it so that stability is centered not just around the overall picture and state of things but also the micro-level decisions. In essence, add in more politics. The problem is I don't think that meshes well with the direction we are going, as we aren't that developed enough yet to have fully coherent factions, and I am not entirely sure if adding more complexity to the situation will make you more satisfied as a QM as that might just increase burnout for you by giving you more work to do.
Adding more numbers and complexity may increase the challenges to the players by having them be forced to juggle more things, but at the same time that also adds more things for you the QM to consider and remember as well. Not only will that increase your workload and the time between updates, for those who aren't math inclined and who don't like micromanagement, it might just be a turn off enough to make them quit the quest, both players and QM included.
Personally speaking I like the current narrative approach of the quest. As was shown during the War Against the Northlands we almost collapsed due to making stupid choices, choices that seemed right at first but upon further reflection were obviously the wrong decisions. While you could always strengthen our opponents and throw more curveballs at us via throwing more crises our way, I am not entirely sure that is something that reflects that courses of civilization very well as I doubt any civilization likely survived having cataclysmic weather or massive wars being thrown at them constantly, and all this would do is artificially inflate the difficulty of the quest. One of the ways you could increase the difficulty of the quest without necessarily abandoning the current model or reforming things too drastically would be to instead add more ambiguity to the decisions. For example when it comes to some of the choices you've thrown at us previously, some of the most contested ones were not the more neutrally moral questions that revolved around build orders or our general strategy but morally complex issues where our modern day sensibilities were pitted against the morals of the past such as those involving slavery or issues such as divorce. This would make sense in lieu of the quest as every civilization, especially the ones we have today, are always evolving and dealing with issues that, while are not crises, still are important and weigh on the identity of the civilization itself as it continues to grow and reform.
All in all though, I currently like the way the quest is currently going and think the current difficulty level is fine at the moment. Due to the choices we made at the beginning I think it's not surprising that we've reached such a stage of dominance that we've achieved so far. But if you really wish to increase to the difficulty, my suggestion would be to either add in more morally contestable choices, or add in more politics. However, if you're not feeling that you could always throw in a Mayan/Aztec invasion from the south to spice things up. Either way I like the way the quest has gone so far, and that's my two cents on the issue.
