From Stone to the Stars

18.1 Ways Before War
[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do. -> Formal Apprenticeships
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) -> Organized Plots LOCKED IN
-[X] [Action] Trade (Mountain Clans)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar) -> Spigot Collection
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake) -> Decorative Pillars
-[X] [Tribute] War (Train Warriors: Warriors -> One Handed Wicker Shield, Holy Orders -> Bone Armour, Horns)
-[X] [Automatic]: Expand Aquaculture (Rice, Fishing), Manage Hunting (Dogs), Prepare for Ordeal, Trade (Arrow Lake, Island Makers, Pearl Divers, Northlands)

Twirling his fingers, Priit sighed at what he saw; grey hairs already graced his temples. His father was still alive, over sixty winters in age, and his shock of hair maintained all of its sunny colour. It was rare for any of the People to go grey. Those that did were universally ancients, perhaps only a few years from death. A decade at most.

To the petitioner kneeling before him, he probably looked close in age to Aeva, even though she was close to twice his age. She was weathered and shrunken, skin wrapped loosely around stick-thin limbs. But her eyes... they maintained all of the bestial cunning and savage wit that marked their line. It was impossible not to look upon the grandmother-but-not and recognize the power that rested there.

The third Big Man completing their triumvirate was an old sack of bones. An old man that had been forced into the position while those younger than he competed over it viciously. He was a placeholder and it was likely that he knew it. Priit had only paid minimal attention to the silent struggle for support — just enough to plan for the future campaign in defense of the Peace Builders — but he expected that one of the young warriors competing over the prize would win it.

The petitioner spoke brokenly through two translators; one of the People who could speak the dialect of Arrow Lake and one the Mountain Man's own who could speak the 'Cursed Tongue'. He had come back along with a small party; only four people, all of whom were clearly expendable, after the People's traders brought them baubles and other trade goods. Those were mostly ignored, it was the stores of food that the caravan had brought for themselves that the Mountain Clans literally fought over.

It was... wretched listening to the elder speak.

"Most wise elders of the Twin-Souled Clan," he spoke. "This lowly dirt-walker would ask for a moment of your time. A consideration fair of the words which I am about to speak to you. The Mountain Men of the south are a people adrift, fleeing starvation. War. Slavery. We are weak and you are strong. As a father teaches his children and as a mother shepherds hers, we would ask that same benevolence."

The man spoke at length, his plea cut down several times between the two translators he spoke through. Priit could speak the tongue of Arrow Lake and knew a smattering of the Mountain Clans' grunting speech. Both the Mountain Clans' and the People's translators added flourishes, slightly altering the meaning. The gist was there, but the shear degree to which the elderly petitioner debased himself was lost. He praised the People, emphasizing how high they were in the sky, while also claiming to be mud they could find underfoot.

"We have always known a harsh existence. The stone mountains of our homes rise high, thrust up into the sky. They rise so high that, in places, they remain uncrowned by soil and plants. Scalped of life. Between these mountaintops are countless dells and other, hidden places. But they are small, unsuited to the great fields that the Mud-Mired Tribes use to grow food. We do not know how to tend to endless forests to make them yield up grain and succulent fruit. The ways of hunting are different down below, and the waters do not yield fish of the same type. Things have changed and they can no longer be as they were."

Mud-Mired. It was a term that Priit had heard before. The Mountain Clans believed that the lowlands around their mountain homes weighed down the spirits of those that dwelled there. Only the thin soil and hard rock of their homelands could support the immense weight of a proper spirit. He wondered how the Island Makers took it; the soil in their homes was thin, less than the distance from the end of a man's hand to his elbow before solid bedrock was struck. Where did they fit in among the soulless hierarchy? It must burn the old man something fierce to come begging of those they though soulless.

"We would join you now by the warm fire as distant kin. We are refugees such as you had once saved in the time of Kaspar-In-Flesh. This is a foreign world for us, one to which our lowly knowledge is ill equipped. If things do not change, then the Mountain Men shall cease to exist. Your knowledge and your magic is known to all. Your halls incomparable, a wonder to all the world. The spirits have touched you, entrusted you with great boons and endless bounty."

The old man slowly stood before lowering himself to his knees and pressing his face directly to the floor. "We ask humbly that you share this bounty with us. Share with us the blessings we would need to survive in this harsh world. The knowledge necessary to grow crops and thrive." His speech done, the elders words echoed in finality in the temple at the Cave of Stars.

Priit glanced over at Aeva. Her gaze, as always, was unreadable. Her dark eyes stared pitilessly at the grandfather sitting before the triumvirate. He wondered what numbers beat through her brain, the calculations on how to make this work and turn to the People's foremost advantage. Not that the decision was really hers to make; the Fingers was closest to the Mountain Clans while Crystal Lake was far away. It was her right to speak first, as the leader of Crystal Lake.

The moment stretched uncomfortably.

Slowly, Aeva raised and hand and split the air with a snap of her fingers.

Immediately, the beat was taken up by the shaman surrounding the delegation; pounding their staves against the stone floor of the temple. Drums were brought out and bundles of tinder affixed to staves and lit into impressive torches despite the daylight. Every corner of the temple was filled with light as soft orange flames cascaded across the faint, glimmer mica ground into the walls. Flutes started to whistle near silently and Priit relaxed as the beating of drums reached deeply into this soul.

The wizened elder from the Mountain Clans had sprung to his feet at the sudden cacophony and the young translator at his side thumbed through his belt for where a knife would normally be kept. Straining muscles and darting eyes slowly relaxed as Priit called for calm in the young man's tongue. All of the shaman around the Cave of Stars were skilled warriors, trained obsessively to guard the entrance to the spirits' home. They were safe as could be anywhere within the People's lands; both the People from the Mountain Clansmen. Star Shaman wouldn't brook any violence upon the temple's stones, regardless of who started it.

Two of the Star Shaman walked the length of the temple, one of the oldest women that Priit had ever seen and a young man, little more than a boy. There was supposed to be some symbolism in that, a spiritual significance; whatever it was, Priit hadn't a clue. At the Ivory Door, the two of them reached into pouches simultaneously, and smeared sacred oils across the door. They traced each of the spiritual totems; bear, orker, wolf, caribou, rabbit, and bird. Below them were the spirits of the ground and above, the sky. Each was anointed in turn.

It had supposedly taken the better part of a decade for the door to be carved and fitted together from over a hundred tusks. It was a monumental tribute to the spirits; worthy of guarding their home.

"You have asked for the wisdom of the spirits," Aeva said. "It shall be provided. In full. After you receive their judgement."

On cue, the Ivory Door split open and the gaping Pit at the Heart of the Cave of Stars was revealed.

Priit shuddered at the sight. Inky darkness reached into his soul.

The two shaman flanking the door flinched before their torches flashed; gouts of flame reached high enough that they scorched the ceiling before being extinguished in an instant. A ghastly cry echoed throughout the temple.

Priit hesitated. Something gripped his heart, crushing it within his chest. His vision blurred. Stopping and starting, everything moving before freezing as if everything was replaced by statues. A grinning face learned down at him, hand stroking along his cheek. Laughter echoed through out the temple; high and haunting, low and guttural both. The sound intermixed; growing in intensity.

The images started to flash faster and faster and faster. A shaman collapsing to the ground. Aeva, seated in her throne of stone, her eyes rolled so far back in her head that she was clearly seeing her brain. The young man from the Mountain Clans standing before them seized up, his muscles becoming rock hard as everything spasmed.

Stars felt to earth, emitting flashes of blue and white and orange to beat back the encroaching darkness. The air itself seemed to shimmer, light wavering and then merging with the darkness in ways that made Priit ache. From his brains to his marrow, all was pain.

As he crashed to the floor, Priit could barely keep a single eye open: his other was ground into the stone below. As the dark encroached and took everything, a single image burned itself into his eye. An orb of gold, clasped in talons three.

Everything after that was reduced to a collection of images. Sounds. Sensations. A woman's laugh. A man's scream. A child's cry. Blood dripping off an obsidian edge. The clash of flesh on stone. Wood and rock. Oblivion.

When the world finally made sense again, Priit found himself staring up at the sky. Above him, the spirits danced in the sky, broadcasting their emotions and joy for all to see. Streaks of green, yellow, and purple danced in between the stars. The presence was undeniably felt. It was already night, Priit wondered? When had that occurred?

Priit felt a small, final weight leave his shoulder as a near silent click cut through the air. The Way to the Heart of the Cave of Stars was now shut.

"The spirits have spoken," Priit mumbled. He glanced over at the trembling, collapsed forms of the Mountain Clansmen. Now, if only they could keep the two negotiators from bringing back tales of absolute terror regarding the People.

The spirits have obviously spoken in favour of supporting the Mountain Clans, almost egregiously so. How should that occur?

[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans with a detailed understanding of The Hunt megaproject.
[ ] [Clan] Solve whatever it is that's driving the Mountain Clans from their home?

After the clansmen were sent away, loaded with enough gifts to help them in the short term, Priit's attention wandered back to matters closer to home. The Ember Eyes had been busy among the Pearl Divers, building more Salterns. It had been the work of two generations so far, but by their best estimates, all of the possible sites for Salterns would be fully constructed in another generation.

Spiritual Advisors Triggers: A Word, A Bond -> Blood of my Brothers

Apparently their efforts among the Pearl Divers had fermented rich rewards. Ideas from among the People and the Northlanders had flourished among them. The Pearl Divers valued, quite intensely, the fact that an adult should be willing to stand by their word, even to the point of death. It was similar to the People's own value on oaths binding individuals together as family. After all, wasn't in the nature of family to support each other in everything? It was considered crass, at best, to keep track of favours and debts among the closest of friends and family. There was a certain acknowledgement if one was a wastrel and should not have trust extended, but family were those people whom you know would have your back the second that you needed it.

Family would not betray you. For everyone else, could you really be sure? The Pearl Divers had betrayed the People, at least in part, when they refused to come against the Northlanders. There was an undercurrent of doubt among the youngest Pearl Divers in the worth of their bond given that realization. The People came to help the Pearl Divers, but did they help in return?

No.

Their honour impinged, the young cast off the old and tired value of their fathers and mothers, following instead what felt right. What their fathers and mothers had actually done. They recognized the People's wisdom and taught it to their own children in turn.

In recognition of the gift of wisdom, the Pearl Divers had responded with several generous gifts. The first was a small pot of singing sand. It no longer sung, but for a while, the red sand babbled like water whenever Priit held it. It was... strange, and the realization had made many shaman uncomfortable. Still, the sand was so far east and south that it took the better part of a year to travel there and back. Whatever magic could be found in the Singing Sands, it was beyond the People. The mystery of what made the magic vanish would also go unknown.

As for the second gift...

"Auk!" the creature chirped, happily munching on a few smaller fish. It had mystified Priit when he first saw it: small, black and white; the thing looked like a bird, but lived like a fish. It made no sense, but Priit could admit that watching it waddle back and forth on the floor of his longhouse was entertaining. It was surprisingly fast for its small size! His children and family had loved the little creature.

It was a curiosity, Priit admitted, but seeing the small flock they'd captured... softened something inside him. There were nights in the heat of summer and in the depths of winter where he'd found himself with a smile bared for all to see. Nothing like the baring of fangs that was he was capable of normally.

But speaking of the Fangs... it would be time for them to head west soon, to Hill Guard and then south to protect the Peace Builders.

A few years of seasoning had done wonders for the People's warriors, bringing their strength up greatly. They still weren't as numerous as they had been at the beginning of their war with the Northlanders, but their numbers had greatly increased. The drive to increase the number of warriors had, however, discovered something of interest: if a warrior was killed in battle, it was extremely unlikely for any of their children to grow up to be warriors themselves.

It took a bit of investigation to find out why, but the problem was rather obvious in hindsight: dead men received no pay. A warrior was richly rewarded with meat and grain for the risks they took in the forests of war. They were allowed to eat twice as much as normal and received twice over that in goods to trade for the weapons they used. Some of that excess had a tendency to end up within the stomachs of a warrior's close family and friends. They also had a strong tendency to train their children or their friends' children in the arts of war. Combined, those two advantages meant that the choosen children would grow up to be exceptional warriors.

If the warrior died, his family and those they patronized would not be able to grow in the same way.

Many were troubled once they made that realization. Priit knew that warriors fought for their friends and their families first. It was a good life, if dangerous; but it also served to keep everyone and everything you loved safe. If your death meant that your loved ones would suffer and not have the opportunities that they should have had, how could you be asked to die on behalf of the People. It was... wrong.

So Priit would not let it stand.

How do you address the issue of widows and orphans of fallen warriors?

[ ] [Fall] Set aside extra resources for the families of fallen warriors.
[ ] [Fall] Increase the prominence of Holy Orders; their training is taken care of by shaman, not other warriors.
[ ] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
[ ] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.

There was one final thing that had to be addressed: the Northlanders. The shaman sent by the People had been well received by the tribe. Apparently, they had even won the recognition of their spirits; the lights of blue, green, and purple that dueled in the night sky had surged at the People's presence. It was auspicious, many of them thought and it was enough for them to allow them to work with and train their High Shaman.

A very distant sworn-blood relative of the long dead Ivory Blooded Chief, the girl was nothing like her infamously bloody ancestor. She was quiet and almost sullen, divorced from the physical world and drawn into the realm of the spirits deeply indeed. Her training went well, if unexceptionally, until a relatively new shaman fresh from the Cave of Stars was introduced to her. It was like the sun broke out on the girl's face the very moment that she met him. She was smitten.

It was a promising sign. The representative of the Northlander's spirits instantly fell in love with someone who trained in the heart of the People's spiritual domain.

The growing positive feelings between the People and the Northlanders was going to cause problems, however: the Northlanders wanted to march to war alongside the People and they were not going to take no for an answer. Everything that Alloo whispered in Priit's ear and all of the advice the shaman sent back warned him that refusing their offer of aid would be a terrible idea. The Northlanders were well on the way to considering the People sworn-blood. To reject their offer of aid would be a grievous insult.

The issue was that even a minimal level of help was likely to break the Northlanders. Their warriors were hunters and herdsmen; if they went to fight, then that meant that the tribe would be gathering significantly less found than it normally would. Even the two dozen Horn Riders that they planned to send would mean that some of the tribe would starve.

How should the People respond to this damaging generosity?

[ ] [Give] Provide the Northlands with enough food that they won't be in danger of starving. (-1 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Give] Allow the Northlands to come. (A few Northlanders starve.)
[ ] [Give] Forbid the Northlands from coming. (Noticeably damage relations)
[ ] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.
[ ] [Give] Given the Northlands knowledge of The Hunt.
[ ] [Give] Begin trading preserved food so they can buy if needed.

AN: Moratorium until the vote is unlocked. Map will be updated tomorrow with more information on what's south of the Peace Builders.
 
Looks like our future Client States are starting to come together! I wouldn't have thought the Mountain Clans would be useful allies, but if a united south will be the bane of the People ...

In the meantime, religious victory continues! No doubt we're barreling towards a deep seated conflict with the Peace Makers as we both attempt to expand our cultures and spheres of influence through our faiths, that will be interesting. We really need to expand into some good agricultural areas to we can take in the manpower needed to fight wars.
 
This is my thoughts on the ones I favored.

[ ] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach the man to fish and he eats for a life time. We are teaching the mountain clans agriculture which is slow and harsh near their territory, I dont want these guys expanding beyond their boarders anymore, but teaching them to grow food will make them more focused I guess on it any land they take would be around their mountain. With how stableish the lands is around they are likely to be the last few who are raiders in the area, it also makes them thankful with this minor knowledge we share.

[ ] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.
Expert warriors teaching green horns is a great idea, heck we might as well later on make an academy of warriors where those who want to be warriors go to train, this could also lead to people outside of the norm like a fishers son to attend and grow into a fine warrior then make it clan distend.

[ ] [Give] Provide the Northlands with enough food that they won't be in danger of starving. (-1 Econ tiers)
The Northlanders are our friends now are they not? They are just going threw hard times dont see why we wouldnt help them.

Although I think we should go for another option then just giving them food even tho it would be useful. In the long run we should share our mega hunts project which would allow them to understand hunting better. I could go for either.

[ ] [Give] Given the Northlands knowledge of The Hunt.
 
The Northlanders are our friends now are they not? They are just going threw hard times dont see why we wouldnt help them.

Although I think we should go for another option then just giving them food even tho it would be useful. In the long run we should share our mega hunts project which would allow them to understand hunting better. I could go for either.

[ ] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.

this seem like the better option

they send their people off to war, we send people in to indoctrinate them further
 
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do. -> Formal Apprenticeships
Expected gain.

-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) -> Organized Plots LOCKED IN
Actual plots of farmland. A small step forward, but the yield improvement from planting would start crawling up from now, when fields are neither overplanted nor underutilized.

-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar) -> Spigot Collection
And a reduction in the manpower used. Basically, scar the trees in groove, and have the grooves shaped to channel the sap into a cup. Then you just collect the cup at the end of the day after the sun did some reduction of the water content saving a bit of fuel.

Still used even today for rubber tapping.

-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake) -> Decorative Pillars
Mostly ornamental! But good for working our way to structural support pillars as theres an incentive to make better pillars to pelase the spirits.

-[X] [Tribute] War (Train Warriors: Warriors -> One Handed Wicker Shield, Holy Orders -> Bone Armour, Horns)
Nice reduction in casualties with both the shield and armor(bone armor's pretty expensive in manpower and materials to make though).

Horns would make good signaling devices. And also morale devices. Nothing like horns and howling dogs to terrorize cultures with neither.


"We have always known a harsh existence. The stone mountains of our homes rise high, thrust up into the sky. They rise so high that, in places, they remain uncrowned by soil and plants. Scalped of life. Between these mountaintops are countless dells and other, hidden places. But they are small, unsuited to the great fields that the Mud-Mired Tribes use to grow food. We do not know how to tend to endless forests to make them yield up grain and succulent fruit. The ways of hunting are different down below, and the waters do not yield fish of the same type. Things have changed and they can no longer be as they were."

Mud-Mired. It was a term that Priit had heard before. The Mountain Clans believed that the lowlands around their mountain homes weighed down the spirits of those that dwelled there. Only the thin soil and hard rock of their homelands could support the immense weight of a proper spirit. He wondered how the Island Makers took it; the soil in their homes was thin, less than the distance from the end of a man's hand to his elbow before solid bedrock was struck. Where did they fit in among the soulless hierarchy? It must burn the old man something fierce to come begging of those they though soulless.
Oh boy they sure picked up a nasty belief system to glorify the most inhospitable lands.

All of the shaman around the Cave of Stars were skilled warriors, trained obsessively to guard the entrance to the spirits' home. They were safe as could be anywhere within the People's lands; both the People from the Mountain Clansmen. Star Shaman wouldn't brook any violence upon the temple's stones, regardless of who started it.
Interesting counterpoint to our Flat Arrow Outlook, though not unusual. For all that the Romans were super violent, it made it all the more important to designate grounds where blood could NOT be spilled in anger to define spiritual places.

On cue, the Ivory Door split open and the gaping Pit at the Heart of the Cave of Stars was revealed.

Priit shuddered at the sight. Inky darkness reached into his soul.

The two shaman flanking the door flinched before their torches flashed; gouts of flame reached high enough that they scorched the ceiling before being extinguished in an instant. A ghastly cry echoed throughout the temple.
Ooo, they figured out how to put up a SHOW with the methane fumes.
What happens here is that the methane surges up as the door opens, contacts the torches, and flash incinerates in a fuel-air mix, followed by sundry noises as the air pressure equalizes from the closed structure.


Priit hesitated. Something gripped his heart, crushing it within his chest. His vision blurred. Stopping and starting, everything moving before freezing as if everything was replaced by statues. A grinning face learned down at him, hand stroking along his cheek. Laughter echoed through out the temple; high and haunting, low and guttural both. The sound intermixed; growing in intensity.

The images started to flash faster and faster and faster. A shaman collapsing to the ground. Aeva, seated in her throne of stone, her eyes rolled so far back in her head that she was clearly seeing her brain. The young man from the Mountain Clans standing before them seized up, his muscles becoming rock hard as everything spasmed.

Stars felt to earth, emitting flashes of blue and white and orange to beat back the encroaching darkness. The air itself seemed to shimmer, light wavering and then merging with the darkness in ways that made Priit ache. From his brains to his marrow, all was pain.

As he crashed to the floor, Priit could barely keep a single eye open: his other was ground into the stone below. As the dark encroached and took everything, a single image burned itself into his eye. An orb of gold, clasped in talons three.

Everything after that was reduced to a collection of images. Sounds. Sensations. A woman's laugh. A man's scream. A child's cry. Blood dripping off an obsidian edge. The clash of flesh on stone. Wood and rock. Oblivion.
And then between the suggestion, the shock and the fumes, everyone trips balls until the colder air drives the methan back down


In recognition of the gift of wisdom, the Pearl Divers had responded with several generous gifts. The first was a small pot of singing sand. It no longer sung, but for a while, the red sand babbled like water whenever Priit held it. It was... strange, and the realization had made many shaman uncomfortable. Still, the sand was so far east and south that it took the better part of a year to travel there and back. Whatever magic could be found in the Singing Sands, it was beyond the People. The mystery of what made the magic vanish would also go unknown.
Sounds like the noise was from water content and dried out?

As for the second gift...

"Auk!" the creature chirped, happily munching on a few smaller fish. It had mystified Priit when he first saw it: small, black and white; the thing looked like a bird, but lived like a fish. It made no sense, but Priit could admit that watching it waddle back and forth on the floor of his longhouse was entertaining. It was surprisingly fast for its small size! His children and family had loved the little creature.

It was a curiosity, Priit admitted, but seeing the small flock they'd captured... softened something inside him. There were nights in the heat of summer and in the depths of winter where he'd found himself with a smile bared for all to see. Nothing like the baring of fangs that was he was capable of normally.
Penguins! Cute!
Priit being eased from that helped a lot too.


It took a bit of investigation to find out why, but the problem was rather obvious in hindsight: dead men received no pay. A warrior was richly rewarded with meat and grain for the risks they took in the forests of war. They were allowed to eat twice as much as normal and received twice over that in goods to trade for the weapons they used. Some of that excess had a tendency to end up within the stomachs of a warrior's close family and friends. They also had a strong tendency to train their children or their friends' children in the arts of war. Combined, those two advantages meant that the choosen children would grow up to be exceptional warriors.

If the warrior died, his family and those they patronized would not be able to grow in the same way.

Many were troubled once they made that realization. Priit knew that warriors fought for their friends and their families first. It was a good life, if dangerous; but it also served to keep everyone and everything you loved safe. If your death meant that your loved ones would suffer and not have the opportunities that they should have had, how could you be asked to die on behalf of the People. It was... wrong.
Natural outcome. Our elitism demands too much.


There was one final thing that had to be addressed: the Northlanders. The shaman sent by the People had been well received by the tribe. Apparently, they had even won the recognition of their spirits; the lights of blue, green, and purple that dueled in the night sky had surged at the People's presence. It was auspicious, many of them thought and it was enough for them to allow them to work with and train their High Shaman.

A very distant sworn-blood relative of the long dead Ivory Blooded Chief, the girl was nothing like her infamously bloody ancestor. She was quiet and almost sullen, divorced from the physical world and drawn into the realm of the spirits deeply indeed. Her training went well, if unexceptionally, until a relatively new shaman fresh from the Cave of Stars was introduced to her. It was like the sun broke out on the girl's face the very moment that she met him. She was smitten.

It was a promising sign. The representative of the Northlander's spirits instantly fell in love with someone who trained in the heart of the People's spiritual domain.
The Dice Gods ship it. They keep rolling amazingly for this.


The spirits have obviously spoken in favour of supporting the Mountain Clans, almost egregiously so. How should that occur?

[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)

This is pretty big, indebts them the most, inconveniences us the most. We can afford it though.
Remember our cultural concept of Debts. Theres a very real chance that they collectively become Debtors. Which is to our advantage but I think some voters might be a bit upset.

[ ] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans with a detailed understanding of The Hunt megaproject.

These two makes their society viable.
Agriculture would be the hardest to pick up because their cultural beliefs says that to work soil is to lose their souls. It'd destablize them to collapse all the way
The Hunt...well its our big advantage, and we don't really want to lose that this quickly. It helps them the most...but would they remember?
Doubt it.

[ ] [Clan] Solve whatever it is that's driving the Mountain Clans from their home?

So their issues are starvation, war and slavery. Nothing we can fix easily, though we could probably apply The Hunt to figure out whats wrong with their home environment...the wars and slavery are still going on.

How do you address the issue of widows and orphans of fallen warriors?

[ ] [Fall] Set aside extra resources for the families of fallen warriors.

'Pension' system. This strongly encourages warriors to fight much harder, and encourages warrior families to be more loyal to the state which provides their resources.
At the same time it innately elevates their class. The warrior clans will be getting food without doing any work, which is naturally, quite easily abusable.

Remember Priit's wife? We'd have just incentivized that sort of thing. Marry a young warrior, when they get killed(which is very common for young warriors), you and your children are still fed and your livelihood secured.

[ ] [Fall] Increase the prominence of Holy Orders; their training is taken care of by shaman, not other warriors.

A step closer to theocracy, as it puts the power into the religious orders...the cost is that it gives more power to the religious orders. This is a pretty stable structure into the Bronze age, but we're probably going to have some trouble breaking into Iron Age models later if it all proceeds the same.

[ ] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.

Opens a step towards organized warfare(which is a pretty big boon), so we get a lead into the most basic shieldwalls, but it also accelerates class gaps, because it encourages warriors to be super insular.
'Best' technologically though.

[ ] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.

All the trades are unified under the apprenticeship system. Great for training elites, but as a Knight-Squire system, it doesn't scale up well.
It'd give us a force of utter badasses, but a very SMALL force of utter badasses.

How should the People respond to this damaging generosity?

[ ] [Give] Provide the Northlands with enough food that they won't be in danger of starving. (-1 Econ tiers)

Can't take this if we feed the Mountain Clans.

[ ] [Give] Allow the Northlands to come. (A few Northlanders starve.)
[ ] [Give] Forbid the Northlands from coming. (Noticeably damage relations)

Both of these aren't good.

[ ] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.

Trade workers. They send warriors, we send workers. We keep the cultures mixing.

[ ] [Give] Given the Northlands knowledge of The Hunt.

Helps a bit, but they can't USE The Hunt without their own hunters and herders, who'd be dead.

[ ] [Give] Begin trading preserved food so they can buy if needed.

Help them build up food reserves so they can tolerate losses.


Personal preference:
[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
[ ] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.

Net objective to drag them into our debt and influence.
 
@Redium
Penguins live in antartica not the artic.
There should be a species of penguin like animal called the Great Auk that hasn't gone extinct yet.
 
Mud-Mired. It was a term that Priit had heard before. The Mountain Clans believed that the lowlands around their mountain homes weighed down the spirits of those that dwelled there. Only the thin soil and hard rock of their homelands could support the immense weight of a proper spirit.
This idea is actually amusingly similar to our own TBF. Just worse in every possible way. Rather than hardship being something to prepare for and endure, there's a SPECIFIC hardship that they feel they MUST endure. Great for keeping people happy in the face of said hardship, terrible for ever improving the situation.


The spirits have obviously spoken in favour of supporting the Mountain Clans, almost egregiously so. How should that occur?

[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)

This is pretty big, indebts them the most, inconveniences us the most. We can afford it though.
Remember our cultural concept of Debts. Theres a very real chance that they collectively become Debtors. Which is to our advantage but I think some voters might be a bit upset.
I'd think the upcoming law code and the existence of Pritt the Angry would be enough to reassure those upset voters.

Also, all the options only solve one of their civ-breaking problems. Get their enemies to make peace, too bad, the're still starving. Teach them farming/The Hunt or give them food, too bad, the're still being squeezed on 3 sides.

The real value in giving them food is that when they do detonate, the refugees will think better of the Twin-souled people.
[ ] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.

All the trades are unified under the apprenticeship system. Great for training elites, but as a Knight-Squire system, it doesn't scale up well.
It'd give us a force of utter badasses, but a very SMALL force of utter badasses.
More importantly, the system breaks down hard when a lot of warriors die at once, which is when you least want systems breaking.
 
@Redium
Penguins live in antartica not the artic.
There should be a species of penguin like animal called the Great Auk that hasn't gone extinct yet.
Penguins are migratory and they do in fact live in the arctic, and cooler temperate regions. Based on the Northlands we're right at the southern edge of their viable long term biome.
I'd think the upcoming law code and the existence of Pritt the Angry would be enough to reassure those upset voters.

Also, all the options only solve one of their civ-breaking problems. Get their enemies to make peace, too bad, the're still starving. Teach them farming/The Hunt or give them food, too bad, the're still being squeezed on 3 sides.

The real value in giving them food is that when they do detonate, the refugees will think better of the Twin-souled people.
Yep. And like we saw with the Pearl Divers and Arrow Lake, teach them a real permanent advantage and they'd remember you for a generation unless you keep pressing to subvert their culture.
Keep giving them food to make them dependent and they'd stay much longer.

More importantly, the system breaks down hard when a lot of warriors die at once, which is when you least want systems breaking.
It actually kind of works due to our walls and hills(once we build those), but yeah, its a Knight and Squire model, and that's not good for taking losses. Immensely strong, but brittle.
Great in the Bronze Age FYI. Extensive artisanal Bronze armor for a small number of elites makes them functionally invulnerable in battle.
Something actually impressive, sand making quiet noises is as far from it as is possible without it just being quiet.
It actually IS very impressive because it requires remarkably precise conditions to happen on a large scale and yet it does.
Definitely a natural wonder even in the modern day when we understand HOW it works.

The sound you're hearing is basically very tiny quartz balls rubbing at the same frequency band so it becomes audible as coherent sound rather than dissipating like when you normally move sand around.
 
It actually IS very impressive because it requires remarkably precise conditions to happen on a large scale and yet it does.
Definitely a natural wonder even in the modern day when we understand HOW it works.
I meant the sound isn't impressive, how it happens is certainly miraculous, but the result is kinda eh.
 
General
Martial: Reduced Hardened Neolithic Warriors and Holy Orders
Economy: Early Aquaculture with Very Early Agriculture Supplemented by Managed Hunting and Herding (Large Surplus)
Agriculture: Extremely Early Agriculture
Aquaculture: Early Aquaculture
Herds: Primarily small-team hunts with animal assistance
Hunting: Carefully Managed Hunting (Safe Hunting Cap: Substantial Room Left)Art: Advanced High-Quality Tools
Diplomacy: A Tribe of Two Faces, Spirit and Demon.
???

Taking into account or new current status, it seems that our martial and economy are doing well. Compared to before we've gone from greatly reduced warriors to just reduced, so while we may not be at tip top fighting condition compared to before, we have improved enough for it to have made a difference. Economically we are doing much better as now we have a large surplus compared to just a small one. If we were to grade our economic tiers numerically with edge of hunger being 0, then we essentially went from tier +2 for our small surplus to +4 with our large surplus, with the only economic tier left being +5 where we have more than enough food that it rots before we eat it. This gives us plenty of options this turn.

Structures
Brick Longhouse
Brick Wall
Firing Step
Rampart
Temples
Corbel Arches
Decorative Pillars

Two of the newest innovations we seem to have received were for our architecture. Corbel arches, a technique that was used by many cultures including the ancient Hittites, Egyptians, and Mycenaeans is a great start for us in terms of more advanced building forms, while decorative pillars will also allow us to build larger and larger.

[X] Plan Learn Our Ways
-[X] [Salt] Yes
-[X] [Teach] Have teachers take apprentices by finding promising children, like the Holy Orders do. -> Formal Apprenticeships
-[X] [North] Put the People's shaman in with the Northlands as advisers or leaders to their new High Shaman.
-[X] [Action] Expand Agriculture (Quinoa) -> Organized Plots LOCKED IN
-[X] [Action] Trade (Mountain Clans)
-[X] [Admin] Manage Forests (Sugar) -> Spigot Collection
-[X] [Martial] Raid (Enemies of Peace Builders)
-[X] [Art] Raise Temple (Crystal Lake) -> Decorative Pillars
-[X] [Tribute] War (Train Warriors: Warriors -> One Handed Wicker Shield, Holy Orders -> Bone Armour, Horns)
-[X] [Automatic]: Expand Aquaculture (Rice, Fishing), Manage Hunting (Dogs), Prepare for Ordeal, Trade (Arrow Lake, Island Makers, Pearl Divers, Northlands)

It seems like the turn went very well for us, what did we roll to get all of this?

In terms of our response for the specialization issue, formal apprenticeships were expected so I'm glad we got it. Has it had any effect on reducing the problems caused earlier? As it still seems our specialization is still over cap.

In terms of our choice to lock in Quinoa farming, that seems to have paid off in spades regarding the large food surplus we have right now, as well as the organized plots innovation that should help us with our future agricultural endeavors.

When it comes to our choice of producing further maple sugar it looks like we got lucky and innovated spigot collection as that should help us cut down on how much effort is actually needed when it comes to tapping trees for syrup as the spigots should simply flow into containers which the sun can then evaporate for the more concentrated form which we can then use later for boiling though with less work.

Raising a Temple at Crystal Lake did more than expected as it gave us more than just our required supernal symphony choice. @Redium Did the innovation for columns just get us decorative ones or did we learn about how to is columns for construction in general?

I'm glad our tribute choice paid off in getting us both more warriors for both our normal warriors but also our holy orders too. Plus with more innovation towards shields, armor, and horns for signaling I think the force we are sending down south is our most potent yet.

Twirling his fingers, Priit sighed at what he saw; grey hairs already graced his temples. His father was still alive, over sixty winters in age, and his shock of hair maintained all of its sunny colour. It was rare for any of the People to go grey. Those that did were universally ancients, perhaps only a few years from death. A decade at most.

I'm curious, since this grey hair seems to not be genetic or from age, I am guessing this is likely the result of stress right?

To the petitioner kneeling before him, he probably looked close in age to Aeva, even though she was close to twice his age. She was weathered and shrunken, skin wrapped loosely around stick-thin limbs. But her eyes... they maintained all of the bestial cunning and savage wit that marked their line. It was impossible not to look upon the grandmother-but-not and recognize the power that rested there.

How old is Aeva? I don't think she's likely to last much longer but then again I said the same thing about Kaspar and we know how that ended.

The third Big Man completing their triumvirate was an old sack of bones. An old man that had been forced into the position while those younger than he competed over it viciously. He was a placeholder and it was likely that he knew it. Priit had only paid minimal attention to the silent struggle for support — just enough to plan for the future campaign in defense of the Peace Builders — but he expected that one of the young warriors competing over the prize would win it.

I'm curious how this situation came to be, as shouldn't our IWTBTVB trait have made it so that the best person became a Big Man rather than simply a figurehead? It seems to me that there is obviously politics at work concerning Hill Guards choice for Big Man with either all of the players essentially choosing someone non-threatening to fill the role, or there is someone who is essentially acting as a shadow Big Man to get this to happen.

Any comments @Redium?

"We have always known a harsh existence. The stone mountains of our homes rise high, thrust up into the sky. They rise so high that, in places, they remain uncrowned by soil and plants. Scalped of life. Between these mountaintops are countless dells and other, hidden places. But they are small, unsuited to the great fields that the Mud-Mired Tribes use to grow food. We do not know how to tend to endless forests to make them yield up grain and succulent fruit. The ways of hunting are different down below, and the waters do not yield fish of the same type. Things have changed and they can no longer be as they were."

From what we can hear of the Mountain Clans Elder's words, it seems like any help we give in teaching the Mountain Clans how to grow food like we do, or hunt like we do, is going to be a hard struggle as their environment is so much different from ours. I don't want to say that it will be a futile effort, but it could become one.

Mud-Mired. It was a term that Priit had heard before. The Mountain Clans believed that the lowlands around their mountain homes weighed down the spirits of those that dwelled there. Only the thin soil and hard rock of their homelands could support the immense weight of a proper spirit. He wondered how the Island Makers took it; the soil in their homes was thin, less than the distance from the end of a man's hand to his elbow before solid bedrock was struck. Where did they fit in among the soulless hierarchy? It must burn the old man something fierce to come begging of those they though soulless.

What are the Mountain Clans' values anyway? As this seems to be one of them, and not a very good one at that.

Immediately, the beat was taken up by the shaman surrounding the delegation; pounding their staves against the stone floor of the temple. Drums were brought out and bundles of tinder affixed to staves and lit into impressive torches despite the daylight. Every corner of the temple was filled with light as soft orange flames cascaded across the faint, glimmer mica ground into the walls. Flutes started to whistle near silently and Priit relaxed as the beating of drums reached deeply into this soul.

How recent were these rituals and ceremonies added to the Temple of the Stars? @Redium

The wizened elder from the Mountain Clans had sprung to his feet at the sudden cacophony and the young translator at his side thumbed through his belt for where a knife would normally be kept. Straining muscles and darting eyes slowly relaxed as Priit called for calm in the young man's tongue. All of the shaman around the Cave of Stars were skilled warriors, trained obsessively to guard the entrance to the spirits' home. They were safe as could be anywhere within the People's lands; both the People from the Mountain Clansmen. Star Shaman wouldn't brook any violence upon the temple's stones, regardless of who started it.

In terms of the Star Shaman themselves, how did they come to be and where exactly do they stand in the hierarchy of things? It seems like the Star Shaman are a very specific position different from that of the other normal shaman, and even appear to be a holy order themselves. What does it take to become one of them @Redium ?

Two of the Star Shaman walked the length of the temple, one of the oldest women that Priit had ever seen and a young man, little more than a boy. There was supposed to be some symbolism in that, a spiritual significance; whatever it was, Priit hadn't a clue. At the Ivory Door, the two of them reached into pouches simultaneously, and smeared sacred oils across the door. They traced each of the spiritual totems; bear, orker, wolf, caribou, rabbit, and bird. Below them were the spirits of the ground and above, the sky. Each was anointed in turn.

Any hints on the significance of the symbolism or are we going to find out eventually?


It had supposedly taken the better part of a decade for the door to be carved and fitted together from over a hundred tusks. It was a monumental tribute to the spirits; worthy of guarding their home.

I'm guessing then that we are still getting ivory from the Northlands in order to make such a massive door?

"You have asked for the wisdom of the spirits," Aeva said. "It shall be provided. In full. After you receive their judgement."

On cue, the Ivory Door split open and the gaping Pit at the Heart of the Cave of Stars was revealed.

Priit shuddered at the sight. Inky darkness reached into his soul.

The two shaman flanking the door flinched before their torches flashed; gouts of flame reached high enough that they scorched the ceiling before being extinguished in an instant. A ghastly cry echoed throughout the temple.

Priit hesitated. Something gripped his heart, crushing it within his chest. His vision blurred. Stopping and starting, everything moving before freezing as if everything was replaced by statues. A grinning face learned down at him, hand stroking along his cheek. Laughter echoed through out the temple; high and haunting, low and guttural both. The sound intermixed; growing in intensity.

The images started to flash faster and faster and faster. A shaman collapsing to the ground. Aeva, seated in her throne of stone, her eyes rolled so far back in her head that she was clearly seeing her brain. The young man from the Mountain Clans standing before them seized up, his muscles becoming rock hard as everything spasmed.

Stars felt to earth, emitting flashes of blue and white and orange to beat back the encroaching darkness. The air itself seemed to shimmer, light wavering and then merging with the darkness in ways that made Priit ache. From his brains to his marrow, all was pain.

As he crashed to the floor, Priit could barely keep a single eye open: his other was ground into the stone below. As the dark encroached and took everything, a single image burned itself into his eye. An orb of gold, clasped in talons three.

Everything after that was reduced to a collection of images. Sounds. Sensations. A woman's laugh. A man's scream. A child's cry. Blood dripping off an obsidian edge. The clash of flesh on stone. Wood and rock. Oblivion.

When the world finally made sense again, Priit found himself staring up at the sky. Above him, the spirits danced in the sky, broadcasting their emotions and joy for all to see. Streaks of green, yellow, and purple danced in between the stars. The presence was undeniably felt. It was already night, Priit wondered? When had that occurred?

Priit felt a small, final weight leave his shoulder as a near silent click cut through the air. The Way to the Heart of the Cave of Stars was now shut.

"The spirits have spoken," Priit mumbled. He glanced over at the trembling, collapsed forms of the Mountain Clansmen. Now, if only they could keep the two negotiators from bringing back tales of absolute terror regarding the People.

The spirits have obviously spoken in favour of supporting the Mountain Clans, almost egregiously so. How should that occur?

This is very interesting, as this seems to be something new, or a new variation of something. How frequently do the People, and especially the Triumvirate, consult the spirits when it comes to meetings such as this? As it seems this ceremony was very practiced in a sense, as they seemed to have known enough to get the effect they wanted. While at the same time, what makes a decision necessary to consult the spirits vs when it is not necessary?

In any case, it seems like the Mountain Clans rolled well when it came to getting our aid.

After the clansmen were sent away, loaded with enough gifts to help them in the short term, Priit's attention wandered back to matters closer to home. The Ember Eyes had been busy among the Pearl Divers, building more Salterns. It had been the work of two generations so far, but by their best estimates, all of the possible sites for Salterns would be fully constructed in another generation.

So @Redium since it will take another full generation, meaning a turn, for the salterns to be fully constructed, does that mean that the Pearl Divers will get another chance to trigger spiritual advisors and possibly get another value from us?

Spiritual Advisors Triggers: A Word, A Bond -> Blood of my Brothers

Well this was a pleasant surprise, what do we need to roll in order to get them to adopt one of our values, and how are they chosen?

In any case I'm rather glad that the blood brothers value was chosen as that essentially makes them one step closer to fusing with us, and it has already had immediate effects when it comes to their recent actions regarding us. I'm kind of curious to see now what other value they would swap out next if we do roll well enough next turn.

Apparently their efforts among the Pearl Divers had fermented rich rewards. Ideas from among the People and the Northlanders had flourished among them. The Pearl Divers valued, quite intensely, the fact that an adult should be willing to stand by their word, even to the point of death. It was similar to the People's own value on oaths binding individuals together as family. After all, wasn't in the nature of family to support each other in everything? It was considered crass, at best, to keep track of favours and debts among the closest of friends and family. There was a certain acknowledgement if one was a wastrel and should not have trust extended, but family were those people whom you know would have your back the second that you needed it.

Family would not betray you. For everyone else, could you really be sure? The Pearl Divers had betrayed the People, at least in part, when they refused to come against the Northlanders. There was an undercurrent of doubt among the youngest Pearl Divers in the worth of their bond given that realization. The People came to help the Pearl Divers, but did they help in return?

No.

Their honour impinged, the young cast off the old and tired value of their fathers and mothers, following instead what felt right. What their fathers and mothers had actually done. They recognized the People's wisdom and taught it to their own children in turn.

Was this just the result of our spiritual advisors or was their something more at work? As it seems like this had a disproportionately larger impact than it should have for us simply sending spiritual advisors.

As for the second gift...

"Auk!" the creature chirped, happily munching on a few smaller fish. It had mystified Priit when he first saw it: small, black and white; the thing looked like a bird, but lived like a fish. It made no sense, but Priit could admit that watching it waddle back and forth on the floor of his longhouse was entertaining. It was surprisingly fast for its small size! His children and family had loved the little creature.

It was a curiosity, Priit admitted, but seeing the small flock they'd captured... softened something inside him. There were nights in the heat of summer and in the depths of winter where he'd found himself with a smile bared for all to see. Nothing like the baring of fangs that was he was capable of normally.

While penguins can sometimes be found this far north, considering the bird literally says "auk", I am going to guess that the bird is a Great Auk, extinct now but during that time period very much still alive.

In any case, curiosity aside, they live too far out to sea to really be any use for us. I wouldn't mind if this was proven wrong and they become like chicken of the sea for us, but I doubt it.

But speaking of the Fangs... it would be time for them to head west soon, to Hill Guard and then south to protect the Peace Builders.

A few years of seasoning had done wonders for the People's warriors, bringing their strength up greatly. They still weren't as numerous as they had been at the beginning of their war with the Northlanders, but their numbers had greatly increased. The drive to increase the number of warriors had, however, discovered something of interest: if a warrior was killed in battle, it was extremely unlikely for any of their children to grow up to be warriors themselves.

Good to hear that we've narrowed the gap so to speak regarding our numbers. Hopefully our hardened condition will make up for the fact that our numbers are still relatively low.

It took a bit of investigation to find out why, but the problem was rather obvious in hindsight: dead men received no pay. A warrior was richly rewarded with meat and grain for the risks they took in the forests of war. They were allowed to eat twice as much as normal and received twice over that in goods to trade for the weapons they used. Some of that excess had a tendency to end up within the stomachs of a warrior's close family and friends. They also had a strong tendency to train their children or their friends' children in the arts of war. Combined, those two advantages meant that the choosen children would grow up to be exceptional warriors.

If the warrior died, his family and those they patronized would not be able to grow in the same way.

Many were troubled once they made that realization. Priit knew that warriors fought for their friends and their families first. It was a good life, if dangerous; but it also served to keep everyone and everything you loved safe. If your death meant that your loved ones would suffer and not have the opportunities that they should have had, how could you be asked to die on behalf of the People. It was... wrong.

So Priit would not let it stand.

This seems like an expected result, I'm not too surprised this hadn't come up earlier as the Northern War we just had was our first real conflict with the new warrior system, albeit I'm guessing the fact that so many warriors died made it hard to see the results of what happens when a warrior dies in battle, at least in regards to their family.

I'm also not surprised Priit is dealing with this, as he likely sees this as an injustice that needs to be corrected. Is this something that will help us get to the the Stone Age Law megaproject, as it certainly seems like Priit isn't going to last too much longer to see it through, and he seems to be the main driver for the project. Any comments @Redium ?

There was one final thing that had to be addressed: the Northlanders. The shaman sent by the People had been well received by the tribe. Apparently, they had even won the recognition of their spirits; the lights of blue, green, and purple that dueled in the night sky had surged at the People's presence. It was auspicious, many of them thought and it was enough for them to allow them to work with and train their High Shaman.

A very distant sworn-blood relative of the long dead Ivory Blooded Chief, the girl was nothing like her infamously bloody ancestor. She was quiet and almost sullen, divorced from the physical world and drawn into the realm of the spirits deeply indeed. Her training went well, if unexceptionally, until a relatively new shaman fresh from the Cave of Stars was introduced to her. It was like the sun broke out on the girl's face the very moment that she met him. She was smitten.

It was a promising sign. The representative of the Northlander's spirits instantly fell in love with someone who trained in the heart of the People's spiritual domain.

So...what did we roll to get this result?

The growing positive feelings between the People and the Northlanders was going to cause problems, however: the Northlanders wanted to march to war alongside the People and they were not going to take no for an answer. Everything that Alloo whispered in Priit's ear and all of the advice the shaman sent back warned him that refusing their offer of aid would be a terrible idea. The Northlanders were well on the way to considering the People sworn-blood. To reject their offer of aid would be a grievous insult.

The issue was that even a minimal level of help was likely to break the Northlanders. Their warriors were hunters and herdsmen; if they went to fight, then that meant that the tribe would be gathering significantly less found than it normally would. Even the two dozen Horn Riders that they planned to send would mean that some of the tribe would starve.

How close are we to fusing with them, as this seems like a pretty good indicator that we are close enough to do so?

Also, in terms of numbers how significant are their number of Horn Riders?

Also, if we do absorb the Northlanders, can we still get Orker cavalry even if the Horn Riders come as part of the package? @Redium


The spirits have obviously spoken in favour of supporting the Mountain Clans, almost egregiously so. How should that occur?

[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans with a detailed understanding of The Hunt megaproject.
[ ] [Clan] Solve whatever it is that's driving the Mountain Clans from their home?

Regarding the first option, while we can likely afford to provide the Mountain Clans with regular supplies of food, as we do have around 4 tiers of economy, seeing as we have a large surplus, I'm not entirely sure if this will solve their problem. The Mountain Clans are facing more than just the issue of starvation at the moment, as they seem to both be too overpopulated to feed a population of their size, as well as the fact that they have pissed off at least three other polities, the Island Makers, Arrow Lake, and the Bond Breakers, making it so that even if they do get fed I'm still not sure they will survive, especially if the Arrow Lake tribe continues to raid them for slaves. Furthermore, while others have suggested using this as a way of getting them indebted to us, I am not entirely sure that will work, as our debt system may not be something that is culturally transferable to them. Meaning that even if we do help them get back on their feet, there is no guarantee that it will cause them to become debtors for us.

I think the second option actually has potentially more promise than the first, mostly for one reason. Quinoa. As described by wikipedia:

Article:
However, it is generally undemanding and altitude-hardy; it is grown from coastal regions to over 4,000 m (13,000 ft) in the Andes near the equator, with most of the cultivars being grown between 2,500 m (8,200 ft) and 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Depending on the variety, optimal growing conditions are in cool climates with temperatures that vary between −4 °C (25 °F) during the night to near 35 °C (95 °F) during the day. Some cultivars can withstand lower temperatures without damage.


Quinoa is the type of grain that we can use to help boost their food production. Considering that quinoa is most prominently grown in the Andes, a mountainous region, alongside of the fact that it has very wide temperature range, it is likely one of the few crops that can assist them in being somewhat self-sufficient. As someone's already mentioned the teach a man a fish proverb, I will talk about the benefits of this choice. Firstly, it won't cost us econ tiers compared to the other options. Secondly, as we now have quinoa farming locked in as a choice, it likely won't be too much of an impediment to us. Furthermore, depending on how things go, as we are teaching them how to farm and grow food, this will likely be a long term solution rather than just dropping off food in regimented time slots. This will likely mean advisors, perhaps not spiritual advisors, but advisors all the same who can help us get a good look at their culture, while at the same time likely showing our cultural values to them as well. If this is successful we will not only have a stable buffer state in the mountains, we will likely also have one that can trade with us for more than just foodstuffs, but also be culturally similar to us if things pan out right.

For the third option, I'm not entirely sure about it as they mentioned that the hunting methods of the forests of our area are not the same as ours. Furthermore, I'm not even entirely sure that their issue can even be solved from learning from the Hunt. Perhaps the mountains do have a lack of prey animals for hunting, which has made starvation rampant among them. The difference here with our situation before and theirs is that maybe their lack of prey animals is not due to overhunting like we thought it was for us, but instead the fact that mountains in general usually have a lack of variety due to their environment. In any case, that being said, if this is chosen, this option is likely one that will have us send spiritual advisors to aid them as the Fangs are the ones who understand the Hunt megaproject the most.

The fourth and final option is too vague right now. @Redium I thought we know what ails the Mountain Clans, that being starvation due to not being adept at growing crops and war due to their raids against other tribes. Is there more to this?

How do you address the issue of widows and orphans of fallen warriors?

[ ] [Fall] Set aside extra resources for the families of fallen warriors.
[ ] [Fall] Increase the prominence of Holy Orders; their training is taken care of by shaman, not other warriors.
[ ] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
[ ] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.

As others have already said, the first option is one that will essentially create a welfare system for the families of fallen warriors. While not a bad idea on its face, it could be easily abusable such as if a situation similar to what happened to Priit occurs, something I'm sure he might consider regarding this. On the one hand, this will likely increase morale among our warriors, as they know that even if they fall in battle, their loved ones will still be taken care of. On the other hand, this likely will create a formalized warrior class, as those who are part of warrior families will easily be able to raise warriors as they have the institutional resources to do so, likely creating a divide between them and the rest.

The Second Option, while one that echoes choices we've previously made, seems to put a lot of power in the hands of the Holy Orders. Having them train the orphans of warriors would solve the issue, at least of the orphans, not sure about the widow, but at the same time it also gives more power and influence to the Holy Orders. While I like our Holy Orders, I do think that there needs to be checks on them, as we have seen how powerful they can be when they are wielded by others or using their own influence like through Priit.

The third option is interesting. Firstly, it likely resonates well with the Blood Brother value we have. I mean, if you consider your fallen warrior a blood brother, then that means he is family, which means his family is also now your family even if he is deceased. So this option likely won't have too much trouble gaining traction due to the values we have in place. The other thing that attracts me to this option is that having our warriors fight in groups is a potent force multiplier as now we are getting to a more organized form of warfare, where individual strength can be defeated by teamwork, something I think we should adopt as we are likely to need it when we become outnumbered later. For someone like Priit who is a member of the Fangs, this type of innovation should seem natural to him, as don't wolves hunt in packs? So why not apply this to people as well? The downside however is that we will likely make the warriors more isolated, as by forming them into groups like this those bonds will likely solidify far past the present and will likely persist even further, creating a warrior class, which is to be expected, but it will have consequences down the line. Not a bad choice by any measure though.

The final option seems like one that will make our warriors more elite, but will also likely constrain us in numbers due to the numbers of warriors we have right now. Not particularly good if we run into something like another Northern War where attrition was horrible.

How should the People respond to this damaging generosity?

[ ] [Give] Provide the Northlands with enough food that they won't be in danger of starving. (-1 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Give] Allow the Northlands to come. (A few Northlanders starve.)
[ ] [Give] Forbid the Northlands from coming. (Noticeably damage relations)
[ ] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.
[ ] [Give] Given the Northlands knowledge of The Hunt.
[ ] [Give] Begin trading preserved food so they can buy if needed.

When it comes to these options, I think there a number of good options here.

The first option is certainly doable, we have a large surplus of food, +4 econ tiers essentially, and it is one of the more simple options we could choose that would easily solve the problem for not much hassle for us.

The next two options are horrible, as letting the Northlanders starve will damage relations with them likely, while the other option literally damages relations with them. So nope.

The fourth option seems like a good choice, but I have reservations regarding it. Firstly while sending our hunters will likely help the Northlands, I do not know if it will help them enough, due to one main reason, our hunters have not hunted in the terrain that the Northlanders have, nor have we ever hunted Mastodons. While sending our hunters and skilled workers will indeed help them meet shortfalls, if we roll horribly enough they could still happen anyway. While our hunters and workers are skilled at what they do in our own territory and terrain, I feat that trying to send them north is a riskier option as they will be operating in a very different environment. This difference in environment was made apparent during the war, I would rather we not do the same here if we can avoid it. At the same time I will acknowledge that sending hunters and workers north will have a boon of improving relations between our two peoples through increasing contact with them, however it seems we already have a good amount of that.

Giving them the knowledge of the Hunt won't really help if they don't have enough hunters to actually apply it and make use of it.

Trading them food is an option, though one that isn't likely to accrue us much brownie points with them as they have to purchase it from us. Not exactly a good image. After all, when your family is starving you don't sell them food, you give it to them.

AN: Moratorium until the vote is unlocked. Map will be updated tomorrow with more information on what's south of the Peace Builders.

Will the Leaderboards be updated as well or are they already?

In any case here is my prospective voting choice:

[ ] Plan Brother
-[ ] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
-[ ] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
-[ ] [Give] Provide the Northlands with enough food that they won't be in danger of starving. (-1 Econ tiers)
 
Just had a funny thought. Almost everything that's happened since 16.0, good or bad, would never have occured if we had chosen not to build a temple.
Quinoa is the type of grain that we can use to help boost their food production. Considering that quinoa is most prominently grown in the Andes, a mountainous region, alongside of the fact that it has very wide temperature range, it is likely one of the few crops that can assist them in being somewhat self-sufficient. As someone's already mentioned the teach a man a fish proverb, I will talk about the benefits of this choice. Firstly, it won't cost us econ tiers compared to the other options. Secondly, as we now have quinoa farming locked in as a choice, it likely won't be too much of an impediment to us. Furthermore, depending on how things go, as we are teaching them how to farm and grow food, this will likely be a long term solution rather than just dropping off food in regimented time slots. This will likely mean advisors, perhaps not spiritual advisors, but advisors all the same who can help us get a good look at their culture, while at the same time likely showing our cultural values to them as well. If this is successful we will not only have a stable buffer state in the mountains, we will likely also have one that can trade with us for more than just foodstuffs, but also be culturally similar to us if things pan out right.
Teaching them farming is a solution to their food problem, but not their "surrounded on 3 sides by very angry tribes" problem. The chance of the mountain tribes actually having a long term is fairly low IMO.
 
@Redium , how large is our civilization right now? Like, in actual numbers - thousands? Ten thousand? I know we have two settlements and a 'castle', all of which are well built with stone and organization, so despite this being before the Bronze Age I imagine we've managed governments accumulate a decent amount of people. I'd just like to get a actual number to help put out he situation in context I can understand.

Also, what are we called? Besides 'The People', I mean. The Mountain Clan 'ambassador' referee to us as the Two-Faced Clan, or something like that - is that what we're generally referred to as?
 
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Teaching them farming is a solution to their food problem, but not their "surrounded on 3 sides by very angry tribes" problem. The chance of the mountain tribes actually having a long term is fairly low IMO.

None of the options presented solve their problems with the other tribes, however all of the options presented mainly deal with their food problems at the moment. So even if they do end up not lasting too long into the future, teaching them how to farm food will at least be less of a loss for us compared to say all those Econ tiers.

One thing that this could do however, that might deal with their enemy tribes problems is that by sending our own advisors to help them, other tribes may be less inclined to attack the vassals we are essentially cultivating, as our advisors act as a tripwire of sorts, so long as one of them manages to tell the tale of surviving a raid or something.

Either way, considering how often things change and how randomly we do so, just because a long term consideration is unlikely doesn't mean it should not be considered.
 
Nice reduction in casualties with both the shield and armor(bone armor's pretty expensive in manpower and materials to make though).

Bone armour is surpringly less expensive than you'd think. An orker's ribs are big enough that strapping a half dozen of them to your chest will serve as armour, no shaping needed. Of course, you have to kill the orker first.

Penguins! Cute!
Priit being eased from that helped a lot too.

Technically not penguins. They just look like them. As others have suggested, they are Great Auks; a species that looks like penguins but were sadly driven extinct - mostly because the bird has no natural fear of humans.

Agriculture would be the hardest to pick up because their cultural beliefs says that to work soil is to lose their souls. It'd destablize them to collapse all the way

They don't believe that the soil is inherently evil, more they believe that souls are so heavy that they will literally fall out of someone's feet if they're not on good, hard rock.

@Redium
Penguins live in antartica not the artic.
There should be a species of penguin like animal called the Great Auk that hasn't gone extinct yet.

It's an Auk.

Wow, thats.. ALOT less impressive then i thought it would be. :p
I mean its cool but lol.

Hey! Your singing sand is red!

It seems like the turn went very well for us, what did we roll to get all of this?

Yeah, your rolls were very high this turn.

Raising a Temple at Crystal Lake did more than expected as it gave us more than just our required supernal symphony choice. @Redium Did the innovation for columns just get us decorative ones or did we learn about how to is columns for construction in general?

Just decorative columns. Think almost like Stonehenge, except primitively carved and painted. They're more like standing stones than pillars just yet.

I'm curious, since this grey hair seems to not be genetic or from age, I am guessing this is likely the result of stress right?

Yes.

How old is Aeva? I don't think she's likely to last much longer but then again I said the same thing about Kaspar and we know how that ended.

She's not quite as old as Kaspar, but she is very close.

I'm curious how this situation came to be, as shouldn't our IWTBTVB trait have made it so that the best person became a Big Man rather than simply a figurehead? It seems to me that there is obviously politics at work concerning Hill Guards choice for Big Man with either all of the players essentially choosing someone non-threatening to fill the role, or there is someone who is essentially acting as a shadow Big Man to get this to happen.

Any comments @Redium?

Infighting. The lump is a figurehead and everyone knows it. The problem is that the people who actually had what it took to be named Big Men were fighting against each other; none of them could quite manage to get enough support to force everyone else into line.

Big Man systems are great at picking meritorious people. They have terrible succession problems, though. If there's not a strong figure to unite behind as the new Big Man, infighting and even civil war is possible.

How recent were these rituals and ceremonies added to the Temple of the Stars? @Redium

They're constantly evolving. Over time, as we visit the Cave of Stars more and more, traditions will be added and revamped all the time.

In terms of the Star Shaman themselves, how did they come to be and where exactly do they stand in the hierarchy of things? It seems like the Star Shaman are a very specific position different from that of the other normal shaman, and even appear to be a holy order themselves. What does it take to become one of them @Redium ?

Star Shamans are shaman who were considered to be among the most promising. Finding a Star Shaman is considered to be a great personal victory since there aren't many. Perhaps a few dozen across the entire tribe? Every family sends their most promising offspring to be tested.

Their training isn't any different except for the Trial at the end. To become a full Star Shaman, you need to commune with the spirits, locked within their threshold for a full day and night. Everyone involved is touched deeply by the experience, some so much that they never leave the spiritual realm. Others are simply never seen again.

Any hints on the significance of the symbolism or are we going to find out eventually?

It has to do with something you'll develop way later on. You don't really have the Mysticism in order to fully articulate what's happening and put it into context with how the People would understand the world. Ask again in about... 80 turns? The material involved would need to be mid-Bronze age before it can really start to be articulated.

I'm guessing then that we are still getting ivory from the Northlands in order to make such a massive door?

It's still the original door. It's taken care of very well; constantly oiled and maintained so that it doesn't rot or yellow.

This is very interesting, as this seems to be something new, or a new variation of something. How frequently do the People, and especially the Triumvirate, consult the spirits when it comes to meetings such as this? As it seems this ceremony was very practiced in a sense, as they seemed to have known enough to get the effect they wanted. While at the same time, what makes a decision necessary to consult the spirits vs when it is not necessary?

In any case, it seems like the Mountain Clans rolled well when it came to getting our aid.

The Triumvirate consults the spirits all the time in every aspect of their lives. How often do they go to the Cave of Stars? Usually only once a year near the summer solstice. If there's an emergency, they would consult them outside of it.

So @Redium since it will take another full generation, meaning a turn, for the salterns to be fully constructed, does that mean that the Pearl Divers will get another chance to trigger spiritual advisors and possibly get another value from us?

Yes.

Well this was a pleasant surprise, what do we need to roll in order to get them to adopt one of our values, and how are they chosen?

You rolled 92+20 (+10 for previous roll, +5 for similar values and +5 for Blood Brothers on top of that).

Was this just the result of our spiritual advisors or was their something more at work? As it seems like this had a disproportionately larger impact than it should have for us simply sending spiritual advisors.

Narratively? The Pearl Divers dinged their A Word, A Bond value when they refused to help you last turn. That guranteed that it would be the one lost. If you hadn't triggered Spiritual Advisors, then their values wouldn't have changed.

I'm also not surprised Priit is dealing with this, as he likely sees this as an injustice that needs to be corrected. Is this something that will help us get to the the Stone Age Law megaproject, as it certainly seems like Priit isn't going to last too much longer to see it through, and he seems to be the main driver for the project. Any comments @Redium ?

Priit probably has one more turn in him. He's not yet in the right place to suggest Stone Age Law. He will, but he's very unlikely to live to see the formalization of it.

The realization of warriors' families losing out when the warrior died was triggered by taking any non-Holy Order Raise Warriors action. You had a chance to uncover it before the issue exploded into a huge problem. Having a big war a generation ago merely made it more likely to trigger.

So...what did we roll to get this result?

92. Both of your diplo rolls were 92.

How close are we to fusing with them, as this seems like a pretty good indicator that we are close enough to do so?

One or two more turns, most likely.

Also, in terms of numbers how significant are their number of Horn Riders?

Pitiful. They'll make up 5-10% of your forces. They're giving you everything than can, but they were savaged extremely harshly by the war.

Also, if we do absorb the Northlanders, can we still get Orker cavalry even if the Horn Riders come as part of the package? @Redium

Eventually yes.

The fourth and final option is too vague right now. @Redium I thought we know what ails the Mountain Clans, that being starvation due to not being adept at growing crops and war due to their raids against other tribes. Is there more to this?

Potentially.

Will the Leaderboards be updated as well or are they already?

It was updated, but I need to add the new tribes you've uncovered.

@Redium , how large is our civilization right now? Like, in actual numbers - thousands? Ten thousand? I know we have two settlements and a 'castle', all of which are well built with stone and organization, so despite this being before the Bronze Age I imagine we've managed governments accumulate a decent amount of people. I'd just like to get a actual number to help put out he situation in context I can understand.

Also, what are we called? Besides 'The People', I mean. The Mountain Clan 'ambassador' referee to us as the Two-Faced Clan, or something like that - is that what we're generally referred to as?

High thousands for sure.

You're 'the People', because that's simply how Stone Age tribes referred to themselves. Many Native American tribes, for example, had names that literally translate to Green River Stone People, People of the Longhouse, Dog-People, or People of the Reeds. Neolithic tribes were extremely egocentric; their group was the only group that really counted as people.

Everyone else calls you the Twin-Souled People because they differentiate your people form their people.


Vote Is Open!

The spirits have obviously spoken in favour of supporting the Mountain Clans, almost egregiously so. How should that occur?

[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
[ ] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans with a detailed understanding of The Hunt megaproject.
[ ] [Clan] Solve whatever it is that's driving the Mountain Clans from their home?

How do you address the issue of widows and orphans of fallen warriors?

[ ] [Fall] Set aside extra resources for the families of fallen warriors.
[ ] [Fall] Increase the prominence of Holy Orders; their training is taken care of by shaman, not other warriors.
[ ] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
[ ] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.

How should the People respond to this damaging generosity?

[ ] [Give] Provide the Northlands with enough food that they won't be in danger of starving. (-1 Econ tiers)
[ ] [Give] Allow the Northlands to come. (A few Northlanders starve.)
[ ] [Give] Forbid the Northlands from coming. (Noticeably damage relations)
[ ] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.
[ ] [Give] Given the Northlands knowledge of The Hunt.
[ ] [Give] Begin trading preserved food so they can buy if needed.


Leader Board
  1. The People! (Prestige: 28, Army: Reduced, Hardened Neolithic Warriors and Holy Orders, Economy: Early Agriculture Supplemented with Hunting, Art: Sacred Construction and Advanced High Quality Tools, Magic: Fire, Stone, and Spirit)​
  2. Tribe of the West (Prestige: 22, Army: Numerous Professional Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Unprecedented Boom in Agriculture, Art: Innumerable Tools, Magic: All Things Alive)
  3. Arrow Lake (Prestige: 18, Army: Informal, Lucky Militia, Economy: Early Agriculture, Art: Sacred Iconography, Magic: Stone and Slaves)
  4. Island Makers (Prestige: 17, Army: Enraged Elite Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Intense Early Agriculture, Art: Advanced Quality Tools, Magic: Earth and Water)
  5. Roundstone (Prestige: 15, Army: Professional Slingers, Economy: Extensive Aquaculture, Art: Cloth and Paint, Magic: Shouts)
  6. Cracktooth (Prestige: 15, Army: Eager Blooded Militia, Economy: Agrculture and Herding, Art: Tools of Terror, Magic: Bone and Beat)
  7. Bond Breakers (Prestige: 14, Army: Organizing Militia, Economy: Edge of Hunger, Art: Durable Weapons, Magic: Little)
  8. Pearl Divers (Prestige: 11, Army: Informal Militia, Economy: Early Fishing and Aquaculture, Art: Beautified Dependable Tools, Magic: Sea and Salt)
  9. Peace Builders (Prestige: 10, Army: Greatly Reduced Fanatical Neolithic Warriors, Economy: Broad Agriculture and Aquaculture, Art: Ephemeral Crafts and Imported Advanced High Quality Tools, Magic: Of Song and Story)
  10. Cateye (Prestige: 6, Army: Hit and Run, Economy: Hunter-Gatherer with Trade, Art: Glittering Gifts and Functional Tools, Magic: Little)
  11. Lakeland (Prestige: 5, Canoe Archers, Economy: Hunter-Gatherer, Art: Rugged Tools, Magic: Little)
  12. Mountain Clans (Prestige: 1, Army: Scattered Refugees, Economy: Severe Starvation, Art: Little, Magic: Little)
  13. Northlands (Prestige: 0, Army: Nigh Slaughtered Cavalry, Economy: Near Collapse, Art: Bone Tools, Magic: Bonds and Beasts)
  14. River Tribe (Prestige: ?, Army: ?, Economy: ?, Art: ?, Magic ?)
 
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None of the options presented solve their problems with the other tribes, however all of the options presented mainly deal with their food problems at the moment. So even if they do end up not lasting too long into the future, teaching them how to farm food will at least be less of a loss for us compared to say all those Econ tiers.

One thing that this could do however, that might deal with their enemy tribes problems is that by sending our own advisors to help them, other tribes may be less inclined to attack the vassals we are essentially cultivating, as our advisors act as a tripwire of sorts, so long as one of them manages to tell the tale of surviving a raid or something.

Either way, considering how often things change and how randomly we do so, just because a long term consideration is unlikely doesn't mean it should not be considered.
Sorry, i shouldn't have implied that food handouts were better at fixing the angry tribes issue. The benefit of food is not that it will stop them from being beaten to death by angry island makers, but rather that it gives their refugees a higher option of us.

Second, while our vast prestige might indeed fend off their foes, it would do so at the cost of being seen as the one who took away Arrow Lake's loot pinata, stopped the bond breakers from responding to raids, and prevented the island makers from getting vengeance for a breach of taboo so massive that their rage is visible on their leader board. Are they really a friend worth their enemies?

Though to undermine my own argument a bit, they don't have to farm in the mountains at all. Expediency will probably eventually drag them down into the river valley, where they can be a breadbasket for us. Their positioning is absolutely ideal for a vassal state, especially if they get their southern and eastern borders trimmed back a bit, and thus become separated from their enemies.

Also, sorry @Redium, but I can't read any of the text on your map anymore. It's just too small and pixelated.
 
[x] [Clan] Teach the Mountain Clansmen the ways to grow food.
[x] [Fall] Allot formal apprenticeships for those who want to be warriors.
[x] Given the Northlands knowledge of The Hunt.
 
Hmmmm, and why are The People called Twin-Souled? Because of the incredible piety of The People, and their "magics"? And maybe the Ascension of Kaspar?
Because from an outside perspective we flip-flop between awe-inspiring displays of art and magic and unstoppable brutal slaughter for seemingly no reason. Like last turn when we showed everyone our gateway to the spirit world, then suddenly "murdered" the high shaman of the northlands with it, slaughtered their people for a generation (stopping only to use our magic to help the Pearl Divers with no compensation demanded), then turned around and became the northland's best friends again.
 
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[X] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[X] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
[X] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.
 
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[X] [Clan] Provide the Mountain Clans regular supplies of food until they find their feet. (-2 Econ tiers)
[X] [Fall] Reorganize the warriors into groups to build bonds between them and teach the fallen.
[X] [Give] Send some of the People's hunters and other skilled workers to help them meet any shortfalls.
 
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