Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
The moratorium time is up right? Can we vote or do we need to wait for the threadmark?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait until threadmark. That is where the QM will be counting votes from. Any votes from before the threadmark won't be counted.
Theres an edge case where you could combine Man-Acclaim Woman-Life to deliberately set up a scenario where the real trial is to seek the approval of the women to be made adults.
- Location
- USA
Maybe, but men already do stuff to try to seek the approval of women without the incentive. So while that would work, I'm not entirely sure we really want that to be our deciding factor on how men become adults.
- Location
- Canada
The people needs concepts of failure to run better in the future, if whatever combo we pick doesn't pan out, in the future, reforms to any other government system would pan out better if examples of fails and the reasons why they fail.
We have all of history to mix and match, so I want us to go for the most stable stuff to the point of rigidity the downsides wont appear for a very long time, but during that the people grows and grows. With heads of families being middle men who run their families like big men we prepare a system set up like a settlement for each family. Each family then can vote for a big man, mostly candidates trained from each family. He may favor his clan more, so for a brief time that the big man is in charge we are looking at a family clan rising in status.
The big man is in charge of the families resources as each clan runs like a settlement, although some may specialize in an area, like Clan Hide-cutter who have the most amount of hunters. Each clan of course has their own servants. (debtor?) For families further away from main areas settlements are broken up into a clan structure as well, who vote for a big man of their settlement, who all big man of settlements would then vote for bigger man who directs the big man to a task like a mega-project or war.
[ ] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[ ] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[ ] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[ ] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
If we keep growing there is a possible merger of settlements such as hill guard and crystal lake if they grow big enough.
If we build such a system from the ground up, and nip problems in the bud before they form this system could work. Such clan systems normally fall apart due to neglect or oversight due to time by itself, the system when it first came to be was very good, but then someone decides they want more. Hence the big man who is voted on by middle man who may have pride for their settlement so go for the best of their best to represent themselves.
anyone can point out the flaw of this please tell me, as this could be interesting thing to explore.
We have all of history to mix and match, so I want us to go for the most stable stuff to the point of rigidity the downsides wont appear for a very long time, but during that the people grows and grows. With heads of families being middle men who run their families like big men we prepare a system set up like a settlement for each family. Each family then can vote for a big man, mostly candidates trained from each family. He may favor his clan more, so for a brief time that the big man is in charge we are looking at a family clan rising in status.
The big man is in charge of the families resources as each clan runs like a settlement, although some may specialize in an area, like Clan Hide-cutter who have the most amount of hunters. Each clan of course has their own servants. (debtor?) For families further away from main areas settlements are broken up into a clan structure as well, who vote for a big man of their settlement, who all big man of settlements would then vote for bigger man who directs the big man to a task like a mega-project or war.
[ ] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[ ] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[ ] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[ ] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
If we keep growing there is a possible merger of settlements such as hill guard and crystal lake if they grow big enough.
If we build such a system from the ground up, and nip problems in the bud before they form this system could work. Such clan systems normally fall apart due to neglect or oversight due to time by itself, the system when it first came to be was very good, but then someone decides they want more. Hence the big man who is voted on by middle man who may have pride for their settlement so go for the best of their best to represent themselves.
anyone can point out the flaw of this please tell me, as this could be interesting thing to explore.
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Equality is not equity.
There's a reason that both males and females have different possible trials. Gender Roles and sexism already existed in the Neolithic.
Kaspar is likely going to become a god, likely the first one that's remembered as human. Feodor is remembered as the Stag-That-Is-The-Sun that's likely to diverge into a Sunrise-High Noon-Sunset triarchy, and the Finger's original female Martial hero is remembered as She-The-Snow. Alvar's story is fused to that of Brother Wolf (who is, for the record, female, despite being named Brother) as an ephemeral spirit of war.
Or he could be carried around by someone. A lot of old people lose an immense amount of weight leading into the end of their lives. The elderly often lose most to all of their sense of taste, so even if they are healthy, they don't want to eat as much.
Alvar's bloodline spawned 4 heroes. His three sons and then his great-granddaughter. Of course, that also prompted me to nerf the hero generation rates so...
It's not even at that point yet. The question is more: does this individual contribute more food to the tribe than they consume? The question is about being a net producer of food. It's likely to evolve in that direction as your Specialization continues to rise.
This is a nit pick, but your child mortality rate (defined as still or live births who manage to reach 15 years of age) is ~38%. Closer to 2/5 than 2/3.
'Marriage' such as it is, typically occurs for girls at 17-19 years of age. Age at first marriage for men is 27-29.
Women can't really get married earlier; menarche, when women first experience their periods, tends to be between 17-18 (with some outliers) in Neolithic women. The amount of training necessary to take on a 'career' isn't high enough to seriously delay reproduction for women. Men typically hit their 'peak' between the ages of 30-35 for food production.
Earlier puberty is a luxury of abundant food. It's not typical, historically.
The Neolithic was more gender equal than future ages, but gender roles were well defined by that point. The dichotomy of male-hunter and female-gatherer was general expectation. It wasn't exclusive, mandatory, or definitive, but things outside of that were considered an exception. Not exceptional or bad, necessarily, but different. To borrow and example from PoC, think of Gwygotha. She was an aggressive warrior-woman who constantly maintained that she had 'an excess of male spirit' which allowed her to marry and impregnate another woman. Being a male-gatherer, female-hunter is in some ways almost considered transgender, at least how we would conceptualize it today. I've been wanting to explore this, but the dice haven't so far cooperated producing the correct Hero types to do so.
You have to go back to before the invention of agriculture for true gender equality.
Trial by Ordeal is going to fluctuate over time. It will probably be set at something reasonable, something that everyone could achieve with a little bit of effort (unless you have physical or mental disabilities). But over time that is going to drift and there's not really much that you can do in order to fight there. Your Elite trait is going to drive people to constantly be better and edge the line ever upwards.
The issue, though, is that all of your Trials are likely to get warped over time. Trial of Life could enshrine a matriarchy or it could be used to disenfranchise all women. Trial of Motherhood/Fatherhood could entrench women's power earlier by giving them a proportionally larger franchise (they have children earlier and live longer on average) or it could lead to breeding factories as people worry. Things will change over time.
Always remember: people are inherently corrupt and nepotistic; if people are not, they're genetically and socially out competed by those that are. There's an argument to be made about simply putting that nepotism front and center, it's going to happen either way, why bother with the fig leaf?
I assume you mean for the [Politics] option? Councilors are either selected by the will of the spirits (lot) from all adults or are elected based on a franchise of all adults. Elections are local to each settlement and are dominated by Big Men or demagogues. A Big Man might also choose to throw their support behind a specific candidate. After all, if a Big Man needs to attend a council, they can't exercise and maintain their leadership at the local level. Clan leaders tend to have a large degree of overlap with Big Men. Having a large family gives an easy base with which to expand your power.
For the [Pay] choice, payment of tribute would be assigned by an elected council. An election that's likely to be dominated by Big Men, Clans and demagogues. Local corruption, at least as we define it, would also be a major factor in these elections.
You gained Legitimacy from Kaspar's long life. He's been leader longer than anyone remembers.
You actually lost 2 Stability this turn, Kaspar's decision to hold an Annual Festival gave +1. You lost 2 Stab as a result of the climate this turn, the rolls were brutal. It wasn't that bad for you, but you lost generations worth of wild rice plants. Your food preservation technology and brick architecture allowed you to more or less ride this turn out. If things don't improve, you will being to start feeling the hurt.
There's also the factor that the spirits decided to smite everybody with bad weather again.
Will be addressed further during mid-turn, but Kaspar feels that a lot of tribes got hammered. He suspects that, other than yourselves, the tribe least affected was the Northlands. They were too far north for the freezing rain to reach, they just had more snow.
Economic Damage Resistance means that you get to ignore temporary effects which drain your Econ; plagues, natural disasters, war, etc.
Trade bonus is how it effects your other stats. Right now, Trade Dominance gives you extra Diplomacy points, above and beyond what others get.
Depends on your decisions. You've unlocked it due to your low centralization model (the other economy type wouldn't have allowed you to do this), but you have to invent the process of vassalization.
A Bigger Man would allow the other Big Men to maintain their posts in their settlements. 'Big Man' is only a semi-official position anyway, so it's not like it's easy to defy or destroy.
No. You got lucky this turn; every trade action gives a chance for technology exchange. At least at this tech level. You're not sophisticated enough to make your inventions opaque to even casual observation.
Settlements would continue to have their own Big Man. It's technically only a sort-of formal position. The Big Man is the type of person who can say, "I know a guy," and get things done. They have power based on their ability to convince other people to do things for them. That's not something that goes away, even if what 'official' position is disbanded. Even your official economy, giving gifts to the boss to prove your worth so they'll pay back to you, is something that's mostly informal.
Voting is Open!
Who should oversee the distribution of tributary incentives?
[ ] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[ ] [Pay] The head of each individual family.
[ ] [Pay] The informal council of elders.
[ ] [Pay] An elected council.
[ ] [Pay] An appointed member of the Big Man's Slate.
How should the People reform their political system?
[ ] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[ ] [Politics] Put Hill Guard under Crystal Lake's Big Man
[ ] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[ ] [Politics] Organize a council with elected representatives of all settlements.
[ ] [Politics] Organize a council from everyone selected by lot.
How do the People organize their Trails of Adulthood?
[ ] [Men] Trial of War: a boy is only a man after killing an enemy combatant.
[ ] [Men] Trial of Acclaim: a boy becomes a man after he is recognized by a vote of his settlement.
[ ] [Men] Trial of Ordeal: a boy becomes a man after he proves himself in a dangerous situation
[ ] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[ ] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Age: after going through puberty, a girl is recognized as a woman.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Life: there is no such thing as a girl, only women and younger women.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Acclaim: a girl becomes a woman when she is recognized by a vote of her settlement.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
Edit: Feel free to continue asking questions!
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[X] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[X] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Japanime
Just going to preempt this and vote for em
Just going to preempt this and vote for em
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
[x] [Pay] An elected council.
[x] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[x] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
[x] [Women] Trial of Acclaim: a girl becomes a woman when she is recognized by a vote of her settlement.
[x] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[x] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
[x] [Women] Trial of Acclaim: a girl becomes a woman when she is recognized by a vote of her settlement.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Or Just follow @SpeckofStardust
since its the same vote as Jap wanted
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
since its the same vote as Jap wanted
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
What in the world?!
Even in death, Kaspar serves.
Nice to hear that our Heroes of the Golden Age are being remembered. They deserve to live as long as possible.
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
Japanime's never led us astray before, and they seem to have a good head on their shoulders so I'm voting for their vote.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Hes not even dead yet!
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
He soon will be!
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
NEVER, Even if he dies, he will be revived via Psyker Resurrection he Will be the God Emperor of MankindHe soon will be!
(Which considering how heroic his stats are is plausible)
- Location
- Minnesota
[X] [Pay] The head of each individual family.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Men] Trial of Ordeal: a boy becomes a man after he proves himself in a dangerous situation
[X] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Men] Trial of Ordeal: a boy becomes a man after he proves himself in a dangerous situation
[X] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
- Location
- USA
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
This is for the pay, not the government. The Politics vote winning is the bigger man. The Elected Council is about payments and shit or something (I kind of forget)
- Location
- United States
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
- Location
- Canada
magic or some other form of it would be interesting, heck didnt we have a person who was born with white hair? @Redium is that a trait thats common with the people now? That would be super cool if it was. Kinda like how Asian people have black hair and eyes.@Redium
So if you want to introduce Psyker shenanigans space magic so Kasper can be GEoM, I'd be 100% ok with this
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Just give us Dragons, and we would be Valyrans...
But i don't want magic as like DnD and stuff, i want SPAAACE magic. I like space magic because it a part of Sci Fi setting to be psychic and shit... Not that it would change anything this early