Thats where future work comes in yes.
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Thats where future work comes in yes.
[X] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[X] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
I actually like this set of actions when taken together given reproduction is of such importance and the majority of every grown adult will participate, although I disagree with Veekie's assumptions that it would lead to a great population growth. When looked at over the course of time, human population growth averaged 0.2% a year, so this policy isn't going to change the fundamentals of living in this era. People can die too easily, and particularly children where on average of the six children you have, four of them will die.
I can't see marriage happening early be a consequence either, as the people of this time should know intimately the sheer risks of giving birth much less doing so at a young age; as well as how likely that child is to die. There's also the factor that having a child is an intensely social affair between individuals and the wider family which will hold it back, so you're not going to get a situation where people procreate ASAP for adulthood if they're not in a situation where they believe their family can provide for their children - as we know from history.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Women] Trial of Motherhood: a girl becomes a woman when she gives birth.
[X] [Men] Trial of Fatherhood: a boy becomes a man once he has children born.
I actually like this set of actions when taken together given reproduction is of such importance and the majority of every grown adult will participate, although I disagree with Veekie's assumptions that it would lead to a great population growth. When looked at over the course of time, human population growth averaged 0.2% a year, so this policy isn't going to change the fundamentals of living in this era. People can die too easily, and particularly children where on average of the six children you have, four of them will die.
I can't see marriage happening early be a consequence either, as the people of this time should know intimately the sheer risks of giving birth much less doing so at a young age; as well as how likely that child is to die. There's also the factor that having a child is an intensely social affair between individuals and the wider family which will hold it back, so you're not going to get a situation where people procreate ASAP for adulthood if they're not in a situation where they believe their family can provide for their children - as we know from history.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
I'd actually rather not have fatherhood/motherhood be the measure we use to say someone is now a adult. Mainly, because we'll want to limit the influence of whatever clergy we eventually create. Priests passing down Church-owned land to their offspring was rather problematic back then.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
@Redium I'm kind of confused regarding the rules of heroes actions and locking in. How many does Kaspar get and why? What are [Incentive] actions?
And how did the two Hill Guard actions get 'Locked In'? Doesn't that only happen after three consecutive repeats?
Edit: On a different note, I wish there were more options on the trials thing. Like implementing a Trial by Ordeal equivalent for women (with ordeals decided by women as well), or separating the Trial by Acclaim voters by gender. Also, how difficult should we expect the non-automatic trials to be. A Trial by Acclaim where everyone who seems like and composes themselves like an adult (with the exception of some handicapped to be expected) gets voted in pretty much automatically seems fine, but if even people who are clearly adults get excluded by the new "Adult" elite then that's a problem. Similarly a Trial by Ordeal should be something where the challenge is to pass it earlier than expected, not something only 3/5ths of our male population manage to pass at all in their lifetime. And Trial by Utility as well should be about being a net positive to the tribe, not about having paid some arbitrary and gameable price.
And how did the two Hill Guard actions get 'Locked In'? Doesn't that only happen after three consecutive repeats?
Edit: On a different note, I wish there were more options on the trials thing. Like implementing a Trial by Ordeal equivalent for women (with ordeals decided by women as well), or separating the Trial by Acclaim voters by gender. Also, how difficult should we expect the non-automatic trials to be. A Trial by Acclaim where everyone who seems like and composes themselves like an adult (with the exception of some handicapped to be expected) gets voted in pretty much automatically seems fine, but if even people who are clearly adults get excluded by the new "Adult" elite then that's a problem. Similarly a Trial by Ordeal should be something where the challenge is to pass it earlier than expected, not something only 3/5ths of our male population manage to pass at all in their lifetime. And Trial by Utility as well should be about being a net positive to the tribe, not about having paid some arbitrary and gameable price.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
A family is a wider unit than just parents and immediate ofspring, especially in societies that value large and multi generational households, as for inheritance and clergy, those two are cultural facets that have thier own domains of influencing factors and possibilities.
Rare were the inheritance practices and ecclesiastical practices/structures that were identical across cultures.
Simply put, we must first develop a sophisticated and streamlined concept of clergy, theology, inheritance, nobility, hierarchy, obligation and property before questions of landed clergy, church wealth and nepotism are even asked.
The history of religious organisations and land ownership extends far beyond Catholic malpractices in the renaissance.
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RomanceNinja
The Pun-isher (Official Meme Wizard)
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Organize a council with elected representatives of all settlements.
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Organize a council with elected representatives of all settlements.
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Pay] The matriarch and patriarch of each extended family.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Men] Trial of Ordeal: a boy becomes a man after he proves himself in a dangerous situation
Now here me out on this one, Trial of ordeal for boys could be anything, as women trials of utility could serve it well to steer men towards other prospects then being a hunter/warrior. Things like making one hundred pots, have you tried to make one hundred pots? making one is time consuming.
This could lead to women being teachers to meek men, who are afraid of getting hurt, also the whole clan thing could lead to women being the leader of a family which could lead them to steer men from dangerous pursuits or, thanks to our warrior type mentality temper boys into being prepared for anything, turning any families hunters/warriors into disciplined warriors.
[X] [Politics] Give Hill Guard their own Big Man
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Men] Trial of Ordeal: a boy becomes a man after he proves himself in a dangerous situation
Now here me out on this one, Trial of ordeal for boys could be anything, as women trials of utility could serve it well to steer men towards other prospects then being a hunter/warrior. Things like making one hundred pots, have you tried to make one hundred pots? making one is time consuming.
This could lead to women being teachers to meek men, who are afraid of getting hurt, also the whole clan thing could lead to women being the leader of a family which could lead them to steer men from dangerous pursuits or, thanks to our warrior type mentality temper boys into being prepared for anything, turning any families hunters/warriors into disciplined warriors.
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Organize a council with elected representatives of all settlements.
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Organize a council with elected representatives of all settlements.
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Pay] An appointed member of the Big Man's Slate.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Pay] An elected council.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
[X] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[X] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[X] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
O.O
I am surprised, i thought you'd go for the bigger man, since it leads to a monarchy, which can lead to feudalism more easily than forming citystates.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
I champion decentralisation and localisation, not monarchy per say.
The birth of the abomination that is the centralised state was ushered by absolutist monarchs.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Citystates seem to be a move away from that, in that the cities themselves are extremely centralized but the over arching government is either weak, powerless or doesn't exist. Which means independent settlements in all but name at best.
Were at a point in time when we need to centralize, THEN decentralize.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Hence the need to empower clans and households rather then vest ever greater powers within the hands of select individuals (big men).
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
That won't lead to a real functional society though
It'll be more difficult to advance and organize since such early decentralization means an inert state, our settlements are already extremely decentralized with the only reason that we can organize in any way, shape or form is because we have influential leaders and power invested in them. I can understand if we centralized further and THEN decentralized since there would be more power and population to manage.
Edit; Nevermind that your choice doesn't have any chance at winning based on how the votes are now... neither of ours for that matter.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
That won't lead to a real functional society though
It'll be more difficult to advance and organize since such early decentralization means an inert state, our settlements are already extremely decentralized with the only reason that we can organize in any way, shape or form is because we have influential leaders and power invested in them. I can understand if we centralized further and THEN decentralized since there would be more power and population to manage.
Edit; Nevermind that your choice doesn't have any chance at winning based on how the votes are now.
You'd be surprised, the Ummayads are a great example of a functional and highly sophisticated society that had a monarchy (and localised buecracy) counterbalanced by extreme and enormously extensive Tribal and Household structures.
The Ottomans are a stellar case of how a househokd based society and political structure can function as part of and a parallel to monarchy and buecracy.
Culture(and that include theology) is a great and wonderful thing, it can make what should otherwise be flat put impossible or illogical to the extreme work like a charm.
Such is the miracle of the human psyche.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
But we don't have a monarchy, and giving more and more settlements their own big man is just going to lead to city states, Like the Greeks who were all independent and going at eachother. Our culture isn't even that similar to the Ummayads or Ottomans.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Where in the neolithic, the bueaty and joy of civ quest is the shaping of culture at these early epochs and watching it evolve, change and develop with the tides of time.
Assuming that by doing X we will get Y is folly, at best we can nudge towards a particular sea of possibilities and watch how the people shape the waters into a society that serve thier purposes.
The potential within clans, households and localised big men and a polity of blood ties and formalised rule by aquisence of the clans and families is something I find fascinating, for historical societies that shared similar ethos where bueatifully intricate and rich depth, contradiction, and oddities.
One is hard pressed to find more enjoyable reading materials, and to quest is to enjoy one's self upon the weave the GM makes of the strings the thread harvests.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Well its not going to win inleast you get real persuasive, the republic/democracy vote is winning by a good margin. (oh and i disagree, but its obvious i aint convincing you to switch over)
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Well, I don't find the winning vote particularly democratic or Republic oriented, oligarchic at best, and possibly reinforces the powers of the big man of he can influence who the council men are.
Clans are composed of families and usually the eldest matriarch/patriarchs or the most respected and revered within said families rise to hold the ephemeral command over the families under them, thier rule is absolutely in the interest of thier families and are utterly beholden to them, just as the patriarchs and matriarchal of the families have the interest of thier own broods and households in mind and are utterly beholden to them.
Thus the entire society is actively involved in the political process, rather than select members of it, and it even possible for the slaves, clients and dependants to be part of the process, as was the case in middle eastren households.
Therefore These structures are the most democratic and egalitarian you can get, and the least prone to corruption and abuse.
No family suffers long a tyrant, abuser or cheat, and no familial society gives respect to one known as such, and those who not only survive but thrive despite this obstacle are exceedingly rare.
Unless outside factors and the deterioration of familial and Tribal/clanish ideals is considered.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Well it involves electing, which is as close as it gonna get for right now, I just don't want it because we already did something like it in the precursor to this quest.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
@Redium, if at all possible can you shed some glimmers of light on the possibilities of the options?
Specifically, in case of councils, what determines the councillors? Is it by lot like the warriors? Is it by popularity? Those who hold the most influence? Clan heads? Those the big men hold in high regard?
Specifically, in case of councils, what determines the councillors? Is it by lot like the warriors? Is it by popularity? Those who hold the most influence? Clan heads? Those the big men hold in high regard?
Children do not get to vote.
Yes.
Yes. All votes before the voting threadmark aren't going to be counted.
Kaspar gets: 1 Admin, 1 Art, 1 Martial, 1 Diplomacy.
Aevaa gets: 1 Admin, 1 Art.
'Incentive' actions are new and are a result of your new economic type. You'll have the chance every turn to set a 'policy;' Spirits, War, Food, Development, Resources, etc. You then get two actions within these categories. You can't designate specific because your economic structure lacks the degree of central planning necessary. Kaspar does get to cheat since he's a Diplo Hero though; they can explicitly select incentives actions, even outside their regular category, because they know exactly who to talk to in order to make it happen.
The narrative here, is the Big Man instructing their subordinates to engage in certain activities and then paying them with some of the tribute that the Big Man collects.
If you had chosen the other economic system, you would've gotten a flat +1 action each turn.
Hill Guard's actions 'locked in' the idea that all proper settlements need a Brick Wall and a Shrine. The timer on those is a little bit different. It's 'three turns where every applicable settlement is covered'. Brick Walls first had full coverage in Turn 11.0 and Shrines in Turn 12.0. Kaspar built a Brick Wall and Shrine this turn so that the counter for them wouldn't reset. Brick Walls automatically locked in since 'every settlement has had them for at least 3 consecutive turns' so all future settlements will have brick walls. Shrines technically didn't lock in this turn, but you won't have the option to establish a settlement next turn so I locked it in anyway to simplify my bookkeeping.
Will address later.
I'll address this later today.
There is still a vote Moratorium. I will close the vote tomorrow since I can't work on an update today, but there are some questions that I will answer first in about 7-8 hours. I will do that and open voting at the same time. If people have questions, tag me and I will answer them at the same time as I open voting.
- Location
- USA
Considering what was said in the latest update, I'm not entirely sure where we lost that point of stability or gained that point of legitimacy for that matter. Integrating the last of the Hundred Bands could've been part of the reason for the loss of stability as mentioned by some tensions regarding them. Of course, it could just also be the drastically changed weather that has caused everyone to become uncertain.
Really glad we got the Rush Builders legacy. Considering how powerful megaprojects can be, especially their immediate bonus and then long term effects, being able to complete them quicker is a boon. This will allow us to more efficiently build them while also saving up actions for later, very good economy and efficiency of choice.
Interesting to see that we've now got animal glue for construction. I wonder if we could possibly use it to jump our way up into innovating a composite bow. But even with a composite bow, we're still probably going to need a horse equivalent to truly make use of it. Maybe we can try domesticating Orkers soon?
Good to know that even though we have agriculture and aquaculture that we aren't focusing exclusively on it. As this turn showed, one bad harvest can probably fuck you up. Thankfully we were fine.
I really do feel for Kaspar here. He's served us very well so far, and essentially through his leadership has led us through an almost Golden Age. Through his reign we've seen three completed mega-projects, the Great Fire Relay, the Hill, and now the Trial of Adulthood. The end of the Hundred Bands of a threat, and their integration, all of which he helped with through leading the military conflicts against them, and being the first in line to sacrifice in order to integrate them. He's even done what heroes are wont to do and helped give us another hero in Aevaa. Then again, considering how prolific he seems to be, the law of averages doesn't make that seem too surprising. He's been leading three generations of the people and has even produced four of his own through his kin.
All things considered of the Big Men who have led the People he is the greatest of them all. I would really like to see if there was a way we could remember and commemorate him upon his death, like a special option. Considering that Aevaa as an Administrative Hero might be likely to succeed him, I don't doubt that she would want to do so as well.
Glad to see that integration worked out in the end, though it may have cost us stability. We've now solidly anchored ourselves once again on the Great River now that that is out of the way. Having more hunters after all is not a bad thing, it increases our food output, and our martial capabilities if need be.
It seems like the culture war is going as is expected. Our actions have so far mitigated the spread of the Peace Builder's ideology, and our ongoing prosperity has thrown that into doubt as well.
I wonder if the Peace Builders will take the hint that we are not interested in their teachings so much as we are for their trade goods.
In either case, the quickest case to reinforce our values is something that will probably be coming in the future. When we take into account the fact that we have not chosen to actively trade with the South Lake Tribe, and have heard no word about their own overtures to us northward, then when that is combined with the fact that Obsidian still seems to be trending, sooner or later the South Lake Tribe will be incensed by that and possibly attack us for it. A lot of our values have come from conflict and warfare, while the Peace Builders seem to preach beliefs that seem centered on pacifism, all it would take to massively discredit them would be to simply get into another conflict which unites the People and then causes the Peace Builder's values to be seen as worthless in their eyes in this instance.
Looks like we got another series of bad weather rolls this turn. @Redium Do we know how the other tribes fared during this period? After all, some of them like the Peace Builders and South Lake Tribe likely are more agriculturally oriented than us, so I am curious to see how everyone else did, especially since we seem to be the only ones with brick homes.
Glad to see that Kaspar's leadership, and our foresight I guess, helped us survive this turn. Failed harvests tend to create problems with stability for most civilizations.
Interesting. It seems we're transitioning right now in regards to our economics. I wonder if this is simply due to our absurd growth, with us having more settlements than most of the rests, or simply from having more frequent heroes.
In either case I'm guessing for of these values that for economic damage resistance we have 1/3, what does this mean exactly @Redium ? For Trade Bonus, since we seem to have dominance in two categories, obsidian and gems, does that mean we get a bonus of +1 to trading?
Also, the extra actions are very nice, but the one thing that I am noticing right now is that our Prestige can now be used to accrue vassals. Considering our prestige right now is 16, does that mean that if we tried to we could vassalize someone instead of integrating them?
This is a conundrum. As Kaspar stated, simply elevating someone from the Hill Guard to be Big Man for their settlement will likely change the balance of things, as if someone too ambitious comes into power they could try to use their position as a stepping stone to becoming Big Man for everyone.
As for Kaspar's observation about geography, I think that right now he is correct that out of all of our settlements, Crystal Lake has the most inherent worth. However, as time passes and obsidian and our gems become less valued due to other reasons, Crystal Lake could lose its value as well. It might be our spiritual center due to being the wonder that it is, but economically I could see the Fingers usurping it in that role if we find more resources to exploit there or if trade picks up.
The last two things he posits are also something we should consider. People are ambitious, so creating an assembled council might not work out as well as we think it might. Remember the original problem we had with councils all that long ago: distance. If we create a centralized council to represent everyone, then we will have to deal with the fact that centralizing means we might leave our periphery settlements, in the future, unhappy due to their grievances either not being heard or for taking too long to be responded to. While that probably isn't a problem now, that is something to consider for the future. As for creating a single Big Man, well, Kaspar has been acting as a de facto Big Man of all the People since he started, though that was more due to being a quad hero than anything, so it probably wouldn't be too stark of a precedent. I'd assume that if we did create a Big Man for all the people there would likely still be local smaller Big Man for each of the settlements that he could devolve local issues too right? @Redium
Glad to see that our trading is working out. Though it seems like we really do need to either find a source of salt ourselves, or figure out how the Pearl Divers are creating their salt. As salt will be something we will need if we ever plan to expand in the future. Also, now that we know what those big canoes are called, Rapaska, I think it's safe to say that we're in North America and that we've narrowed down our area to the the ones inhabited by the Algonquin people's as that is where the canoes came from. So my guess is we're either in the Midwestern US near the Great Lakes, lower Canada, or the Northeast.
Good thing that Aevaa is an art hero as well, as I'm sure she'll figure out a way to improve our manufacturing of these big canoes. Possibly for use in warfare as well.
In either case, it looks like we'll be trading with the Pearl Divers for awhile in the near future.
Can't help but feel a little sad for Kaspar here. Especially since we've seen him transition from a youthful war leader with his whole life ahead of him, now to an old man who is worried about his legacy and his old regrets.
As for our action sheet. It's very interesting to say the least. Now that we've locked down quite a few things, I think we should keep in mind what our heroes chose and what they didn't choose. Choosing to lock in trade with the Northlands was the obvious choice. While it doesn't offer us much in terms of strategic trade goods, it allows us to be seen as favorable to them for a long while due to the importance of our obsidian to them. Considering that Arrow Lake is also locked in, we probably now have strategic allies in both of them as we are likely the only ones they've contacted thus far from what we can see. Whether or not that leads to integration or vassalization down the line is unknown.
Glad to see we're working on our trials of adulthood megaproject, as that will synergize well with the values we have and perhaps act as a way to counter the influence of the Peace Builders in that we would be codifying our beliefs on what we believe merits someone's worth.
I'm curious, in the future when it comes to trading actions, could we choose to trade and ask for a specific object or item like they here with the Rasbaska? @Redium
I think with the heads up we've received this turn from the weather turning sour, we should consider taking more actions for aquaculture regarding fish as well. We do after all straddle the Great River, as well as have a settlement on the bay, which could provide us lots of food, especially with our food preservation techniques.
We should also try to lock in annual festivals as a thing, mostly due to our culture war against the Peace Builders.
When it comes to these options, this is how I see it.
The first option seems likely to create an Oligarchy. People are inherently selfish in away. So for the Matriarchs and Patriarchs of powerful families, they would no doubt try to patronize those from within their own clans, which could lead to Nepotism and corruption down the line, while also further strengthening their families against all others, whether they be newcomers or those who simply aren't as prolific as they are.
The second option dilutes down the first option, but in doing so helps deal with some of the potential avenues for nepotism or favoritism. By having it so that every individual family has a say in the distribution that creates a larger pool of individuals to oversee things. Though it might be more inefficient because of it.
As for the informal Council of Elders. While their worldly experience will likely help them make better decisions in some regards, as we've just seen however with the weather there are occasions where that knowledge and those old ideas don't hold that much weight.
When it comes to the Elected Council, I feel like this one is a good compromise, as while it does have a chance of corruption like all of the other positions, I think it balances itself out due to our traits that favor merit. Only those who are seen as exceptional will likely find their way onto the Council, at least in the eyes of the People, and those that do will find themselves up against peers who were also recognized as such. The fact that they are elected will also make it harder for them at this stage to become corrupt, as right now they are only overseeing the tributary system, however since they are elected and everyone has a stake, with private property not even being a thing now, they will have to work towards pleasing those who elected them, rather than simply enriching themselves or their family as they could be quickly replaced.
The last one seems like another step towards concentration of power. While it would certainly be useful in having one central figure be responsible for the distribution of tributary incentives, and would likely help centralize authority in the Big Man. At the same time the Knock On effects means that that person on the slate will be able to accrue a lot of power as well, enough so that they could use it to establish themselves as well. One moment they are just a member of the slate, but over a generation their influence if not reigned in or directed properly could be used to build personal influence, enough so to secure themselves a position as the Big Man when the current holder of the title dies.
Giving the Hill Guard their own Big Man now will likely do much to placate the settlement and won't change much things in the short term, in the long term however if we continue to build settlements we will have set precedent on this and it will likely make it much harder for things to change. This option will make centralization of power harder as we will be devolving significant authority to each individual settlement.
I'm not sure how well Hill Guard would take being subordinated to Crystal Lake. They seem to be clamoring for their right to self-govern, and doing this will likely piss them off, as well as concentrate a lot of power in the Crystal Lake Big Man and thus change the balance between him and the Big Man of the Fingers.
Selecting a Bigger Man for all will likely further centralize power, and further cement Crystal Lake's position. My question to the QM though is whether or not the other settlements would still have their own smaller Big Men or would those positions be abolished? @Redium
If it's simply elevating One Bigger Man over all, I don't see much of a problem with this, as this is the natural evolution of things. Centralization will become key later on, and becoming semi-feudal will help allow us to still be decisive in having one ruler who can oversee issues for the people as a whole, while also at the same time having local rulers who could cater specifically to their own people as well.
If it's the latter, and we're abolishing all of the other positions and enshrining it into a single Bigger Man at Crystal Lake, I think things will become dicey then as some of the later more outlying settlements might take issue with this.
An organized Council does seem to have merit in that our previous traditions will likely mean that only the best are elected to the Council. However by choosing a Council at this juncture we'd probably be making ourselves less decisive, at least over time. Considering how closely tied Hill Guard is to Crystal Lake I can easily see their elected representative being swayed to Crystal Lake's side in any decisions, which would make it so that the Fingers would likely be the loser in any discussion or debate as they would always be outvoted unless we quickly form another settlement that more likely gravitates towards them. By having an elected council we hope that it can appease all of our settlements in the long run, but it also runs the risk of making it so that decisive decisions are harder to make/take as they will have to be done by committee or vote. So while this option does have merit, it does have downsides as well.
I don't think having a Council by lot would be a good idea. Firstly it would go counter to our "Be the Very Best" value that we have, as the people that are chosen to govern would be those who are lucky enough to get selected rather than those who truly excel. In that same vein by having it be so random we would have no guarantee whether those selected or not would be experienced or talented enough to lead. So hard pass on this one.
For the Men, picking a Trial of War would obviously make us more warlike and create a tendency to stray towards a warrior class. The problem is, right now we are not at war, and in times of peace, I think we would have stability issues from all of our youth wanting to be recognized as adults. So if we don't have a war for them to be recognized, that might cause some of them to go off finding enemies and starting wars due to their agitation. While this option would help us improve martially and create a warrior caste of sorts, this is the wrong way to go about it as it is not sustainable in peace time.
A Trial of Acclaim for the men also runs into issues. By making it so that every man has to be approved by votes from the settlement, while this would probably work in the majority of cases in assuring that our youth grow up well, it's not something I believe that meshes well with our elitism value. Further more, the by vote part makes me think that in the future this can be abused by a faction and create an underclass of sorts. Say we are integrating another tribe but the majority of the settlement doesn't like them? Well, as time goes on and as the people of the settlement continually choose to vote against the recognition of those people as adults, and thus likely also preventing them from voting, over time we will have a majority who tries to keep down that minority whether it be for political gains or otherwise. That will likely blow up in our faces in the future when those disenfranchised by these decisions decide to change the system in the only way they know how, violence.
The Trial of Ordeal seems to be a distillation of our Be The Very Best value. I will acknowledge that right now, this trial will likely cause attrition for us. By making it so that the only way our youth can prove themselves is through dangerous ordeals will likely make it so that some of them will seek out danger. Some of them will probably do what Alvar did all that time ago and try to slay an Orker. But as Alvar mentioned, that is almost always suicide. While this Trial will likely make it so that only the very best and the strongest become men, that does not necessarily mean that only the very best are what is left. For sure this will likely help us create a powerful warrior class, hunters beyond compare, but at the same time a society needs a support structure to support those at the top. For every one person who likely tries this trial, there could be five more who decide that they don't want to become an adult and that they don't want to die, which would probably create an underrepresented underclass. If you can only be heard by being seen as an adult, they likely won't be heard, which could cause problems in the future if this isn't addressed.
Trial of Utility is the one I'm favoring. By making it known that the only way to become an adult is through service to the settlement, being a productive member of society, but having many options for doing so, we can still cultivate a generation of productive individuals. If we chose the Trial By Ordeal as our choice, for example, then out of the Three Brothers, only Feodor would likely be seen as an adult while Tymon and Lucjan would not have. A trial such as this would likely mean apprenticeships, or other experience gaining measures meant to prepare them from adulthood. At least in a trial such as this, failure is not as severe, and it would mean that even in failure they could still attempt to become productive again. Also it would help tailor our people to their unique situations. Every settlement has its own share of issues and intricacies. For those at Crystal Lake they may value those who are most adept at finding gems, or are more spiritually inclined. For those at the Fingers, those who are good at diplomacy, or are consummate administrators and traders. For those at the Hill Guard, the best fishermen or warriors. So on and so forth. While this choice likely isn't as harsh as the other ones, at the same time I still think in its own way it reinforces our values.
The Trial of Fatherhood will simply put make it so that we encourage mating and breeding. It will likely increase our population, but not much else. Considering how much it's hard wired into us to want to pass down our genes I don't think the men need much encouragement to breed anyway.
For the women, the trial of age doesn't really add anything to us. Instead of a trial for the individual it would be more a trial for the family who is able to help keep the girl alive to become a woman. This trial wouldn't encourage any specific behaviors beyond what people should already be doing.
The Trial of Life also doesn't do anything useful for us aside from giving more power to the women. It doesn't encourage anything, or emphasize anything, plus I doubt the men would like it very much if they were forced to go through ridiculous trials while a woman wouldn't have to do so at all.
The Trial of Motherhood while similar to the Trial of Fatherhood is different. When it comes to biology, the limiting factor in a population is generally not how prolific the men are, but how prolific the women are as while men have millions of sperm, women have a limited number of eggs and also have to be the ones to carry the baby to term. While the Trial of Motherhood would no doubt increase our population. It would also probably change the focus for our women. If women are focusing on being mothers, for months at a time they will be vulnerable and also not productive in say picking up food or other tasks. By making it an incentive for women to be mothers, for those who choose not to, it would discourage them from doing things that could be productive to the tribe and settlement as a whole, and essentially make it so that only a portion of our population is working towards being productive and active. For sure, more people is generally a good thing, however making it so that half of the population is disinclined to pursue other tasks is not.
My reasoning for the Trial of Acclaim and Trial of Utility are the same, so I obviously favor the latter right now.
Anyway, here is my prospective vote:
[ ] [Pay] An elected council.
[ ] [Politics] Select one Big Man to become a Bigger Man (likely Crystal Lake)
[ ] [Men] Trial of Utility: a boy becomes a man when he becomes an asset to his settlement.
[ ] [Women] Trial of Utility: a girl becomes a woman when she becomes an asset to her settlement.
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