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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Tom Smith said:
"However, they will get to our cities eventually. The Emperor demands we exist for war, and so we shall fight this war. But do not expect us to hold on our own forever. Not even Cadia could hold out forever, and neither can we without assistance. But no matter the difficulties, we shall fight. Avernus shall stand." is this what your talking about?

cas I think I agree...

but still want avernus to be the defender tho...we CAN just simply change the arguement....it was only prepared by one person I think
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Hey, while you've been away Shard put one together.
How do you feel about this?
[ ] Plan Deathworld Avernus
-[ ][Plan]Middle Ground, Avernus
-[ ][Argument] Avernus' status as a Deathworld greatly increases the amount of attrition the Orks are subject to, particularly with an idiotic Warlord in charge of it maximizing the damage they suffer; Avernus also already has an Ork Infestation from previous invasions, so the long-term effects on it are minor.
 
Shard said:
1. Those Hives will be mostly complete.
1a. Stupid Orkwarboss.
2. We just got an action done to reduce cost of repairs.
2a. We're essentially tossing the costs at the Trust and Svartalfheim, at higher costs due their not-being-Avernus.
3. See: Stupid Ork Warboss.
4. We would absolutely do a culling of those orks.
5. Avernus has really good defences and Wildlife; Svartalfheim's military frankly isn't as good, the Trust would suffer more overall
6. Svartalfheim would suffer quite a bit.
7. Highly improbable, TBH.
8. Keeping the stupid ork warboss alive should be a simple matter of not targetting the warboss.

Why Avernus should be the target:
1. Political Capital. We'll want it when we inevitably propose something that eats it up.
a. Or just convert it into tax rebates.
2. More veterancy for Avernites.
3. Improve relations with Svartalfheim owing to them not having to tank an Ork Invasion.
4. Don't disrupt or risk Svaratalfheim's AM/EM's production.
5. Ork Warboss doing something stupid on Svartalfheim can well lead to attacking somewhere we'd really like them not to.
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agreed but I would add:
6. avernus is already seeded, any other planet would gain a ork population. This is not a huge concern since all of our planets have at least some defenses.but it is still A problem
7. Avernus seems to have some sort of buff that makes our heros spawn faster/easier and gain traits faster as well. so battles are not only cheaper for us, but benifit us more.
8. Avernus has a very large pop so we can withstand long sieges much better.
 
Tom Smith said:
7. Avernus seems to have some sort of buff that makes our heros spawn faster/easier and gain traits faster as well. so battles are not only cheaper for us, but benifit us more.
8. Avernus has a very large pop so we can withstand long sieges much better.
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To clarify Avernus doesn't have a buff its just in constant conflict which is conducive to people pushing their skills to the limits and beyond.

Combine that with by all accounts excellent public services and standard of living to create a pretty much even playing field and a devotion to meritocracy we get a lot more heroes.

We don't have that kind of large population.

IIRC we have about 20 billion half of them on the surface half in orbit.

Svartalfheim seems to have around double that at around 40 billion.
 
inverted_helix said:
Okay I've thought about this quite a bit, and decided its simply better to not get Svartlheim infested with orks when it doesn't have an infection yet. It's a major source of the Trust's productivity, and there's little reason to damage that.
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As people keep pointing out Durin said that they could easily deal with the Orks enough that they never get past the feral and are far too few in number to be too much of a threat thanks to their tech. Unlike us it would also probably be way easier to deal with the Orks since their wildlife doesn't make it harder.

inverted_helix said:
The war fatigue penalty on Avernus only hits militia right now, and we rarely involve the militia in the fighting so it won't be much of an issue right now.
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Thing is people are proposing always sighning up for every single invasion to hit which is seriously going to add up and it's pretty much ignoring a huge long term problem.

inverted_helix said:
Beyond this war I think that we should make Avernus officially the Trust's designated target. Get extra funding to build its defenses in exchange for directing every attack we can at it. That makes it fairer for us, and more efficient for the Trust as a whole. Avernus' population is far better at withstanding wars than anyone else. But in exchange we need the resource concessions to pay for that.
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Again, Avernites are still human and not machines. All the constant wars are going to lead to war fatigue that is just going to build up over time and ignoring that fact doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There are also several problems with making Avernus the Trusts sole designated target. First off is that due to attacks becoming more frequent there would be a lot of vulnerabilities over the years from us needing to expand our cities and hives which would be vulnerable over the years which no one has considered the long term consequences of. It also takes time for us to rebuild leaving us vulnerable for a time. The issue with this is that Avernus has shown itself having a habit of getting a lot not just counting the Orks.

Becoming the sole designated target of the Trust runs into the issue that there may be times that we just can't afford to be like if say we had to deal with an invasion right after figting off another war. Which already happened when Valinor invaded us after we sent a lot of our soldiers and ship to deal with a Waaagh in another system. Considering that Avernus and it's humans happen to be on the shit list of two chaso gods thanks to having the last Saint and Tzeenth being terrified of the humans setting off a galactic WMD by accident this is something we should really take into account.

Finally there are likely some enemies we just wouldn't actually want near Avernus. Example being the Tyranids. Remember how people thought that mini organic lasers weren't worth using since they could fall into the Tyranids hands? Well Avernus happens to be an Old ones biological weapons factory with creatures made to be as dangerous and terrifying as possible. Letting a species like that on Avernus seems like a monumentally stupid idea since not only would it seem they likely would just decide to ignore the human cities if they ended up there in favor of getting new bio tech like bio lasers along with other such weapons from the local wildlife but it may also give Avernus ideas. Imagine that the Trust would veto Avernus as a target in situations like that.

Like I said, it would probably make way more sense to have two designated targets(with one being Avernus) instead of one to avoid fatigue and/or one of the planets not being in condition to act as a target while not having their growth slowed down with both taking turns if things go well. I already put foward the Byzantium as an option since they are only one defense level behind us, are home to the local space marines, can train their militia due to having large number Avernite and Avernite descended citizens and it not being that hard to up the orbital defenses long term if the rest of the Trust pitched in. If we make the proposal we can volunteer Avernus as the other target.
Adhoc vote count started by Red Bovine on Apr 28, 2018 at 7:26 PM, finished with 95136 posts and 41 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Red Bovine on Apr 28, 2018 at 8:09 PM, finished with 95137 posts and 42 votes.
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Red Bovine said:
and it's humans happen to be on the shit list of two chaso gods thanks to having the last Saint
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Pretty sure we're also on Slaanesh's shit list too.

Rotbart perma killed a Keeper of Secrets, Xavier a Daemon Prince and Lin cured another Keeper's curse on Julius.

@Durin
1. Does Lin think that the chaos god's are collectively storing up more and more power over time, or does their expenditure against each other keep their levels from increasing too much?
2. Does Lin think it likely that chaos will join together as they did against Emps against GnM? They are at their most dangerous when they're working as one, focusing all their resources on a problem. Especially since IIRC you said that they equal GnM when they work together?
3. At their current rates how long does the Vangarian guard expect to get to their new max size (they recruited about 1500 marines in the span of 20 or so years...damn impressive).
4. Is there room in the Trust's arsenal for something like this to be created? Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920 The idea would be something that's more effective against super heavy infantry like Da Krumpas basically a way of busting through Power Armour without needing to deploy anti vehicle weapons or ones that are even more expensive by most standards?
5. What kind of orks were Da Krumpas? Nobz? Mega Nobz? Scar Boyz?
6. Do we know why hedcrusha is so stupid? Was he literally born stupid even by ork standards or is there a story to it?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
5. What kind of orks were Da Krumpas? Nobz? Mega Nobz? Scar Boyz?
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Durin said:
Of particular worry is Da Crumpers, the two billion Ork host that accompanies the Warlord Gutcrumpa which has every Ork being the match for a Nob in a lesser host, and a eight million Ork core of Bosses.
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There was no single kind of "Da Crumpa", it was formation, starting from veteran Skarboyz strong and skilled to to match Nobz ftom smaller Waaagh!s and going all the way up to the core of warbosses.
 
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Doomed Wombat said:
4. Is there room in the Trust's arsenal for something like this to be created? Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920 The idea would be something that's more effective against super heavy infantry like Da Krumpas basically a way of busting through Power Armour without needing to deploy anti vehicle weapons or ones that are even more expensive by most standards?
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So basically just a bigger impaler?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
4. Is there room in the Trust's arsenal for something like this to be created? Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920 The idea would be something that's more effective against super heavy infantry like Da Krumpas basically a way of busting through Power Armour without needing to deploy anti vehicle weapons or ones that are even more expensive by most standards?
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So basically, a combination Impaler/Krak Grenade Launcher? Would need to use a Rapid Fire type Impaler though, as the Impaler Sniper is too slow firing for this role. Actually, a variant Heavy Impaler that shoots Melta Grenades on automatic or burst fire would be best for those kinds of Infantry, as well as Monstrous Creatures...

Another option (nonserious) would be a Hwacha that fires Melta-Tipped Hunting Lances. You know, for ridiculous Dakka.
 
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The reason you want velocity when using explosive munitions is to give them better range and so that they hit the target faster. Velocity only negligibly increases the damage that explosive munitions do. If you want to do AP damage or even normal damage with an impaler, use the standard kinetic ammunition. If you want to do explosive damage, get a bolter. They're better at it.
 
I meant it as a matter of range AND rate of fire. But yeah, iffy on how it would work. But, I would be offput if the Data Cores Grenade Launchers did not include an accelerator for extended range. Rate of Fire would be a bit secondary unless it's a Power Armor heavy weapon.
 
@Durin

1. While much of the faith-based improvements (blessed oils and stuff) in the RPGs are Imperial Creed stuff, some of them are Omnissiah blessings. Imperial Creed blessings don't work anymore with the death of the Emperor, but what about Omnissiah blessings? Do they still work?
2. Are thundabeasts big enough to be ridden by ogryns?
3. Do ogryns produce psykers?
 
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Andres110 said:
So basically just a bigger impaler?
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Well you could characterise it that way.

But, its a rail gun...not a coil gun.

Leaving that difference aside, its basically the Impaler equivalent of a rocket launcher and cannon.

Direct hit is going to **** up what ever it hits, but it still causes an explosion around it.

Things which the Impaler for all its good doesn't do, and the other things that do do it can often be used in other areas...like killing tanks.
 
Andres110 said:
@Durin

1. While much of the faith-based improvements (blessed oils and stuff) in the RPGs are Imperial Creed stuff, some of them are Omnissiah blessings. Imperial Creed blessings don't work anymore with the death of the Emperor, but what about Omnissiah blessings? Do they still work?
2. Are thundabeasts big enough to be ridden by ogryns?
3. Do ogryns produce psykers?
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1. no they do not
2. yes
3. yes, more rarely then normal humans though
 
Durin said:
repost questions
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@Durin
1. Does Lin think that the chaos god's are collectively storing up more and more power over time, or does their expenditure against each other keep their levels from increasing too much?
2. Does Lin think it likely that chaos will join together as they did against Emps against GnM? They are at their most dangerous when they're working as one, focusing all their resources on a problem. Especially since IIRC you said that they equal GnM when they work together?
3. At their current rates how long does the Vangarian guard expect to get to their new max size (they recruited about 1500 marines in the span of 20 or so years...damn impressive).
4. Is there room in the Trust's arsenal for something like this to be created? Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920 The idea would be something that's more effective against super heavy infantry like Da Krumpas basically a way of busting through Power Armour without needing to deploy anti vehicle weapons or ones that are even more expensive by most standards?
5. What kind of orks were Da Krumpas? Nobz? Mega Nobz? Scar Boyz?
6. Do we know why hedcrusha is so stupid? Was he literally born stupid even by ork standards or is there a story to it?
7. How big a difference is the jump between tier 7 and tier 8 defences?

@Andres110 did you delete the post?
 
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@Durin

1. Rotbart's estimate on political influence (Or relation boosts) we garner from advocating directing the Tier 2 WAAAAGH at Avernus?
1a. Does he think that arguing for special tax exemptions for Avernus on the basis of 'General target for invasions' as decent idea?
2. Rotbart's opinion on relation loss potentially incurrable, if any, from arguing/voting for directing WAAAAGH at Svartalfheim/Vanaheim?
3. How significant are the bonuses Rotbart gains to his actions from intimately knowing Avernus' territory when fighting upon Avernus?
4. How suitable is Svartalfheim's planetary territory in regard to fighting a war of maneuver/ambushes?
5. Ridcully's estimate on Hedcrusha's Combat capability?
6. Unrelated to the current discussion, but do we have estimates on how badass the Valinorians are, in Combat bonii estimate?
7. Would Hedcrusha flying an entire fleet through a minefield be appropriate for his level of dumbness?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
@Durin
1. Does Lin think that the chaos god's are collectively storing up more and more power over time, or does their expenditure against each other keep their levels from increasing too much?
2. Does Lin think it likely that chaos will join together as they did against Emps against GnM? They are at their most dangerous when they're working as one, focusing all their resources on a problem. Especially since IIRC you said that they equal GnM when they work together?
3. At their current rates how long does the Vangarian guard expect to get to their new max size (they recruited about 1500 marines in the span of 20 or so years...damn impressive).
4. Is there room in the Trust's arsenal for something like this to be created? Asymmetric Recoilless Carbine-920 The idea would be something that's more effective against super heavy infantry like Da Krumpas basically a way of busting through Power Armour without needing to deploy anti vehicle weapons or ones that are even more expensive by most standards?
5. What kind of orks were Da Krumpas? Nobz? Mega Nobz? Scar Boyz?
6. Do we know why hedcrusha is so stupid? Was he literally born stupid even by ork standards or is there a story to it?
7. How big a difference is the jump between tier 7 and tier 8 defences?

@Andres110 did you delete the post?
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1-2. unknown
3, 70 years barring wars
4. not really
5. Nobs+
6. you do not know (hint)
7. +84 defensive bonus, -22% casulites, better shields, harder to damage
Shard said:
@Durin

1. Rotbart's estimate on political influence (Or relation boosts) we garner from advocating directing the Tier 2 WAAAAGH at Avernus?
1a. Does he think that arguing for special tax exemptions for Avernus on the basis of 'General target for invasions' as decent idea?
2. Rotbart's opinion on relation loss potentially incurrable, if any, from arguing/voting for directing WAAAAGH at Svartalfheim/Vanaheim?
3. How significant are the bonuses Rotbart gains to his actions from intimately knowing Avernus' territory when fighting upon Avernus?
4. How suitable is Svartalfheim's planetary territory in regard to fighting a war of maneuver/ambushes?
5. Ridcully's estimate on Hedcrusha's Combat capability?
6. Unrelated to the current discussion, but do we have estimates on how badass the Valinorians are, in Combat bonii estimate?
7. Would Hedcrusha flying an entire fleet through a minefield be appropriate for his level of dumbness?
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1. small but there
1a. he thinks that it could be done but would expend a lot of political capital to pass, and a good bit even if it fails
2. none unless it is a disaster, in which case it would effect his reputation as a general
3. not a lot that can not be provided on the other core worlds
4. every, very suitable in some areas not at all in others
5. high paragon, probably a trait similar to Aryz
6. you mean the handful of survivors? they are 35-40 combat
7. it would be possible
 
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