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The Mallus Compliance (Space Marines in Warhammer Fantasy - Chapter Master/Empire Building)

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I highly recommend learning about the Skaven , but not actively warring with them at least for now.
Is there no way a raid for information could be limited to trying to get a few corpses and prisoners and or some grabbable equipment could be taken? Rather than a blunt sort of ''shell this entire castle'' and loot it approaches?

Or would that all actually fall under the Study the Abhumans(which I initially assumed was only for the pops we already had limited data on) vote making my concerns moot?

I am pressed on time so I will not speak on this in as much detail as I would like.

The Skaven I feel are potentially both a great threat and a great resource, who else besides them and the wood-elves have functional terrestrial planet-wide transport networks? Who else can we offload our warpstone onto in trade? I guess strigoi or nechrarchs, but they are barely more than scatter fiefdoms now so that would be tough even if we could trust them to be as addicted to the stuff which they aren't as much. I think.

Who else is human-based but has genes amenable to breeding huge waves of soldiers without vitae wombs?
Who else could drop rat ogres and supernatural plagues maybe in the hundreds covered in guns and or armor onto our laps?
Yes Nurglitees can do the latter but they don't have global armies with far squeakers, so they are not too comparable.
Nobody besides them that I know of can do so broadly in combination. so whatever policy we eventually make towards them I think it is vital we get intel on them.


I really like the Strigos option and want to remind other voters that I have long been in favor of securing the badlands or parts of it next for the very reasons suggested here.

I've also been for opening the gene vaults for ages and I'll bring back my old quotes on the matter later if any wants them.

If the vote is still open when I'm able to come back i'll try and do some weighing of pros and cons for our other learning options because they all have great potential.

EDIT:

Earth-Destroyer said:
[x] Interesting stuff
-[x] Strigos
-[x] Resource Surveys
-[x] Burn the Forest
-[x] Further Training
-[x] Liberate the Abhumans
-[x] Assassins and Witches
-[x] Study the Abhumans

Strigoes are fun, securing long term metals and food production, make sure we take down the Arby leftovers and start the study project on the dwarfs.
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Sorry, I'm having a nasty Headache right now so I'm having an extremely hard time focusing on anything more productive right now.

Could you explain why you think burning the forests is more likely to help our empire-building efforts, rather than potentially killing off a good number of our native tribesmen recruits and making the lizardmen engage in open hostilities against us?
Or at least how it could help enough to compensate for those likely side effects?

Also, why do you think the hunting Djin Caller remnants are a more worthy priority than say getting reading on super dangerous objects like the polar gates or great maw that we might get from more far-ranging scouting? Is it because they are more mobile? More active?

I'd probably be in full support of this (overly early?) vote you've made without those things.
 
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16 characters said:
Is there no way a raid for information could be limited to trying to get a few corpses and prisoners and or some grabbable equipment could be taken? Rather than a blunt sort of ''shell this entire castle'' and loot it approaches?

Or would that all actually fall under the Study the Abhumans(which I initially assumed was only for the pops we already had limited data on) vote making my concerns moot?
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Problem is you don't know about Skaven yet. You've heard there are credible reports of ratmen in the forest, and that sounds like mutants in need of purging, but at present you don't know about the extent of Skaven activity, and therefore would have no incentive to need to study them much.
16 characters said:
If the vote is still open when I'm able to come back i'll try and do some weighing of pros and cons for our other learning options because they all have great potential.
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I'm not in a rush, happy to just leave it open really.
16 characters said:
rather than potentially killing off a good number of our native tribesmen recruits
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Assume that the areas you're burning wouldn't be the same area as the tribes, or that you'd control the fire in various ways.
 
oh also voting opened, people tend to ignore the voting open, but you still have to vote again if you want your plan counted, I want this time for you to discuss stuff.
 
I have had time to give this more thought and in doing so I noticed a number of my opinions on what we should be doing for this phase of expansion changed.
I will proceed to explain why that is so and why I think the options I have chosen would ultimately benefit the Imperium on Mallus the most.
I hope that some of such may prove persuasive.
I will edit this for clarity later today and post this now before my device loses all its charge.


[X]Plan: Dawn and Dusk: Building a new world.


Diplomacy:
For some reason I would like to avoid us having to war on more than two fronts at once. I have hunch that avoiding such may increase our chance of victory in the battles we choose by saving resources that could be deployed more carefully.
-[X] Eye of the Panther
The abhuman Dawi of the Atalan Mountains resist your rule, insulting your subjects and proclaiming rebellion. Bring them to heel with diplomacy at first, and hopefully, you'll be able to avoid spilling (ab)human blood.

Stewardship:
Originally I thought opening the gene vaults would be a higher priority but that was before I learned it would just as easy to train and equip basic level Hospitalers. That was also most before I saw the truly eyewatering losses we took during the sorcerors island campaign and the severe losses our vassals took in our first war with the tomb kings.
If we had a decent corp of field medics and hadn't lost most of our medical supplies in the crash I think perhaps the losses would not have been so severe.
Plus I want our Adepta's, our Sisters as it were to feel appreciated* and our Genetors will have people to train and pass their skills to. I Think this vote might accomplish all of that.

Also ditto we'd for Genetic Surveys anything that reduces the casualties(deaths and cripplings not much difference before all organs implanted through) of the chapter ought to be good for the chapter in the long run, heck probably even in the short, we tithe every five years or so I think?
-[X] Minoris Hospitallier Mission

-[X] Genetic Surveys

Martial:
I want our mortals if possible to receive training in operating simple mobile artillery pieces that we may be able to produce relatively quickly ditto with rocket launchers. I do not think these are currently common among our mortal armies but they are dangerous long-ranged weapons that punch far above their weight classes in my opinion.

From an outsider looking into the military(and industrial) matters, these weapons strike me as easier to produce and possibly easier to move than heavier tanks(what with thick mud, magic having more opportunities to screw with more advanced systems) while we are still recovering our resources being efficient with them seems important to me.
Maybe also some training with draft horses to given I'd like to see us grow some soon in the meantime I'm sure some somewhat inferior examples to ours are likely to be found in medes and some can eventually be imported for a founding stock from solland.
*
To clarify, I know we trained most of the officer corps in using things like Basilisks and in simpler pieces. However the corps they are a scant remnant of the original army we had. Asking them to try and catch our new forces upon such things seems like a smart move to me.

As has been said before, the sky titans were magnificent. Intelligent, strong, huge, probably chaos resiistant rior to their fall, most likely with long long lifespans given how slowly they seemed to reproduce.
The most common giants of today have in many cases been marred by many generations of slavery but they are still extremely useful, relatively healthy (ab)humans with a history that if resurrected could earn us very loyal followers and if better trained than orcs ever could a more perfect union could be borne.
Or if things go really pear shapedd they could all become like those skitarish servitors the mechanics bolted armour all over, but even larger and more resilient. Still, I confess I also simply love the narrative potential of a group of marines who were extremely harmed by orcs wanting to prevent that fate, and obviously worse from happening to what they see as people.
Obviously, I find their definitions of such to be very arbitrary, but I'd still love to see where this goes and can't actually imagine a way for it to harm the chapter.


-[X] Liberate the Abhumans
The 9th Company has sworn to liberate the gigantic enslaved Abhumans among the Greenskins.
-[X] Further Training


Intrigue:

I initially really wanted us to do some more worldly surveys to accommodate for gaining intel on long-term threats to the Chapter's survival. I still desire this quite badly.
Such however I no longer see as practicable. Not while our resources are so strapped. One solution I thought of to solve that issue was to invest in trade. However, not only do we have a bad reputation for stability, but I am now reminded we are trying to trade through pirate-infested waters!
Perhaps if we can remodel the polity of Sartosa, this will help alleviate the trust others have in us and make trading with us appear less risky.
However, then I thought, ''we already gave our favorite Sultan enough resources to make him feel the need to make sacrifices to us*. And that Sultans can spend those resources inland anyway so ultimately I think it is finally time that we bugged the rich and famous to see what Imperial Arabyan shenanigans have been going on under our nose!
A good excuse for our QM to write more juicy interludes!

-[X] The Watchers



Learning:
I agree wholeheartedly that we should not be turning our psychic marine veterans into liabilities or doing anything to encourage the chapter to distrust a whole company of it's most loyal sons.
If seeing them train in open air isolation is what is required to at least take another step towards rectifying that than I think it will help the chapter as a whole greatly in the long run.

In short, I think this threat to unity could over time cause more damage than neglecting anything else on the learning list. I could easily be persuaded to change my mind on this one though, the learning section for this turn still has my head spinning a bit.
-[X] The Ashwalkers





Notes:

*Horses don't eat promethium you see, they also don't need their machine spirts prayed too. The dark elves and orcs have shown they can take well to magical modification too, which i'm waaay less sure about for say a tank. Once we have a founder population out of vats there is also the potential for mega thick horses to reproduce themselves.
Which say hauling trucks or train for another example will never do.(at least not with the way the imperium hates generalized A.I's they probaably won't)

*It should be the emps, but I think these are Reasonable Enough marines that they know he's got the right spirit)

**Truly I do no know where we would be without confessor hermina, being sincere here.
***note to self try to obtain more salt from trade, will save us effort from extracting it ourselves and reduce load from our nutrient recyclers probably)
 
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[X] Plan Sigmarine
-[X] The Cult of Sigmar
-[X] Minoris Hospitallier Mission
-[X] Genetic Surveys
-[X] Further Training: Versus Greenskins
-[X] Martial Writein: Patrol Araby
-[X] The Watchers
-[X] The Ashwalkers

Sigmar for reasons I mentioned previously, Solland is time-sensitive as is Sigmar's empire more generally. Thread discussion convinced me to support the Hospitalliers.
People seem interested in liberating the giant abhumans from the greenskins, which I'm willing to commit to next turn, but this turn I think we should prepare our regular troops to help with that, and Araby is still a recovering mess: Tomb King leftovers, general post-war chaos and the "decade of instability" mentioned in the update, displaced people, refugees probably means bandits preying on refugees, we have an interest in securing internal trade and travel routes, etc. So I'm putting anti-Greenskin training and Patrol Araby. (Edit: noting here that QM has approved write-in.)


16 characters said:
[X]Plan: Dawn and Dusk: Building a new world.
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If it's supposed to be a plan then your sub-items should start with -[X] instead of [X] to be included, I think?
Also you get to pick 2 Martial actions but I only see 1 in your list.
 
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Speaking of further training as their future targets could be from green skins held up in the mountains or desert tomb kings you could make it more specific to the environment too.
 
Huh, I must have messed up the allotment then
Yeah I accidentally deleted the vote for liberating Abhumans good catch! I wrote about voting for and thought Idid without uh doing so big derp.
 
Exmorri said:
People seem interested in liberating the giant abhumans from the greenskins, which I'm willing to commit to next turn, but this turn I think we should prepare our regular troops to help with that, and Araby is still a recovering mess: Tomb King leftovers, general post-war chaos and the "decade of instability" mentioned in the update, displaced people, refugees probably means bandits preying on refugees, we have an interest in securing internal trade and travel routes, etc. So I'm putting anti-Greenskin training and Patrol Araby. (QM check for valid writein?)
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-[X] Martial Writein: Patrol Araby
You know what that's actually a better option for dealing with araby's instability than attacking sartosa, or letting them sort it out on their own. Which were all that entered my brain for reasons unknown to me on that issue.
I might switch to your plan tomorrow if the QM says that's an allowable option, not the plan switching but your write in.


I however am confused as to how you want our proto PDF to train against greenskins? My plan was to support my previous doctrine for such: Essentially to pound them out of range, pound them without being seen and generally kill as many as possible without them getting so much as within lobber range if possible. (the rageand confusion inducing poisons were a cool bonus though, we shouldn't retire them)

As I've said before that is because I want try to always avoid giving them the sort of satisfying fights they want becauseo fuel WAAGH! energies I think is not in the Lions interest?

Artillery, cavalry (in the style of dragoons but with much more reliable range obviously)bikes and Rocket and missle(if we had time to get to kingmakers archives) launchers seem like coherent things to match such.

I'm sure these aren't the only counters. Heck i'm sure there are better ones but my brain is not helping me with them.
Like say Ideally if we had all the resources of this world we'd probably also want to torch the earth with flamethrowers afterwards too but...we don't?

I hope i'm not being overly critical here.
Edit: I also hope I did not get less coherent, i'm hopping out *now* for a nap I think my brain needs.
 
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16 characters said:
I however am confused as to how you want our proto PDF to train against greenskins?
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I feel like answering the specifics of that would require me to ask the QM for a lot of details about what the 9th saw and experienced while fighting orks in the previous update, and then I'd mostly be repeating that back? Seems like micromanagement to me, I'd trust our veterans to say relevant things to the proto-PDF about what tactics are useful to practice specifically against orks (particularly the Feudal Orks we have here).
 
[X] Plan Sigmarine
-[X] The Cult of Sigmar
-[X] Minoris Hospitallier Mission
-[X] Genetic Surveys
-[X] Further Training: Versus Greenskins
-[X] Martial Writein: Patrol Araby
-[X] The Watchers
-[X] The Ashwalkers
 
16 characters said:
*Horses don't eat promethium you see, they also don't need their machine spirts prayed too.
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This is true, but they do have other requirements. You can't poison a truck, it doesn't randomly mutate if the moon is out, you don't have to grow it, and long term it's more efficient.

This feels a bit like the armour debate we had previously. Yes, you could make armour of a high standard to trade or whatever, but you could make guns more cheaply and just flood the world with them.

It depends on what you want to do, trucks are more expensive, will have a longer supply chain and so on, and require more 'stuff' in general. YOu can indeed do horses though if you like, it's really up to you. THere are advantages to both.
Exmorri said:
So I'm putting anti-Greenskin training and Patrol Araby. (QM check for valid writein?)
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Yes can do. Those are both permissable, just consider the timescales of stuff. Is X what you want to be doing now, or merely something you could be doing. I'll say that though Araby is indeed having lots of problems, you've been evacuating the people away from the dangerous areas, so perhaps holding onto and patrolling unproductive areas isn't something you want to be doing. Comparably though, the Arabyans will certianly be thankful for it.
16 characters said:
I might switch to your plan tomorrow if the QM says that's an allowable option, not the plan switching but your write in
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Sure, can do, you can edit you rplan as well though
16 characters said:
As I've said before that is because I want try to always avoid giving them the sort of satisfying fights they want becauseo fuel WAAGH! energies I think is not in the Lions interest?
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It owuld take an army of thousands, TENS OF THOUSANDS, to clear the Badlands of Orcs. However, you could neutralise the threat of the Greenskins without doing that. You might, for example, set up a series of fortified bases, steadily expanding out from the Dragonback Mountains across toward the World's Edge Mountains, taking Stigos too for example, and over time push the Greenskins further and further away. Gun Trucks could be sent out to chase down Greenskins, aircraft could be used, and artillery for any actual Waaaghs which form. That's one idea anyway. I'm unclear on whether Orcs actually need to eat and drink, I assume they must, but I suspect its one of those things GW dont' care much about, but you coulud also, for example, take any bits of teh badlands which actually have resources and just leave the more deserted parts. I assume this is what the Imperium does. Any time Orcs get on planets they'll be there basically forever, but that's what the PDF is for. If every village has guns and radios, they can deal with local threats themselves, and call in support from the PDF if necessary.

As for the actual quote, it's an interesting idea, but I assume that the Imperium doesn't do this? It'll be a concern certainly, but I assume that this is a luxury. Certainly some forces might use such tactics, but for most PDFs and IG regiments, it'll just be guns tanks and artillery.

I also wouldn't say the Waaagh energy field makes Orcs more resistant to attack? Like if you shoot them they'll still die. At worst, presumably they'd be filled with unlimited stamina, and could therefore sprint at you etc, and that they'd be able lto shrug off lesse rwounds rather than retreating as they normally might. Their shaman will also be more powerful.
Exmorri said:
what the 9th saw and experienced
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YOu can indeed train off this. For example, no one in the PDF is going to assume a troll is dead unless they've dismembered and burnt the corpses. Comparably, if you didn't train them properly, they might assume the troll was dead and then it just regens and runs into their flank etc.
 
@FractiousDay
To clarify it is indeed exact things like Ork (and goblin!) shamans being able to just Cast Foot of Gork,or whatever madness that actually passes through their brains and just swat our formations like flies hit by a howitzer that makes me want to keep them broken up and mostly out of our line of (unaugmented)sight when combating them.

Like they seem to have a lot of stuff on here that humans would see as restricted battle magic and it may be easier for them....you know given they mostly don't care about safety.

EDIT: Also apologies, I wasn't trying to argue trucks are useless or even useless on malus, just that they weren't the best for the near future and I was more trying to explain my reasoning than trying to declare anyone wrong with that one :oops::oops::oops:.

EDIT 2: If my memory serves, barring other food sources I think the GW line is that orcs and goblins consume excess orkoid mushrooms and squigs, they sort of tried remaking the fantasy orcs to be more far like the orks. However they still left in in say Hobgoblins, gnoblars, Night Goblins, Black Orc, etc and all sorts other oddities that make it hard to tell if even they had internal consensus on what was being done with them.

Also:
[X] Plan Sigmarine
 
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I think people are severely underestimating what Arby rements spreading out could do. For one they will inform all the other faction of the tactical elements we have shown, letting them develop counter measures, and they will whisper hate into the ears of the other factions making any diplomacy harder. And the people really need more food. A population boom will provide more long term payoff in men and resources, and it is a conpunding return the more men the faster we get more. That means bigger armies, more extraction of resources etc.
 
[X]Plan: Dawn and Dusk: Building a new world.

I want to save the giants. We said we'd save the giants. Why shouldn't we save the giants? Can we please save the giants?

@16 characters
Would you fix your voting format please? Remove the -before the plan
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
I think people are severely underestimating what Arby rements spreading out could do. For one they will inform all the other faction of the tactical elements we have shown, letting them develop countermeasures, and they will whisper hate into the ears of the other factions making any diplomacy harder. And the people really need more food. A population boom will provide more long-term payoff in men and resources, and it is a compounding return the more men the faster we get more. That means bigger armies, more extraction of resources etc.
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They could do all that. I am not pegging them as a non-threat but at the same time chasing them is resources spent probably not training our men, or feeding the Arabyans with what we currently have/can shortly make since our ability to open up agriculture is about to start, nor resources being prepared to keep already confirmed pernicious enemies like the orcs and tomb kings and ''''' heretic'''''' Norscans down.

I tell you what, I promise I'll vote for it next turn if nothing goes horribly pear-shaped for us. Hopefully, we can also work on liberating the giants and learning about the rest of the abhuamans we've encountered.

That said on the issue of men being poisoned against us.
Liberated allies I suspect are probably fairly reliable allies and I could see us say not only liberating Giants from orcs but also Halflings from Mourne Mountain ogres later down the line( Mourne Mountain ogres are obviously fond of having cooks they can bully into doing anything.) Halflings that could make great spies, scouts, and harrying forces if treated right.

Between them, the loyal norscans (who we have been willing to bleed for) the people of medes(who's religion seemed somewhat oppressed if I read between the lines perhaps) and antoch(which saw that our superhuman feats can be used for more than just fighting) and most likey the Stringany being easy converts, I don't think we need to be worried about having no power base to build up in the future.

Also, If memory serves me there have been lots of mundane non-chaotic soldiers, who couldn't touch a space marine that we've let flee the battlefield before, surely their testimony about us probably being nowhere near the most bloodthirsty foes they've ''''fought'' ought to spread too?
 
Oh I'll fix the format of my post haste, I thought I needed to add that but I was also like 20 hours without sleep when I thought that.

@EVA-Saiyajin It works now. Or it should I hope?

I admit I lost confidence in my own plan when I realized I hadn't accounted for sigmars empire turning on us quickly, nor a real means of keeping araby secure. I moved to EXmorri's because aside from those factors it was very similar to my own.

What makes you like my plan more?
 
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Fair, I do want them liberated ASAP, however, I just can't blame anyone for prioritizing avoiding more of our existing vassals dying over that though.
 
So you know I've asked before but I'm still a little unsure how this quest would handle the rest of the imperiums response to our heresy even after all this time.

Let's take what I think is the clearest cut case, us NOT putting every spare fiber of our beings into genociding all the lizardmen.
If we decided against common sense to be good little imperials next year and focus entirely on such murder would that charge be absolved? Or would it only be absolved if we succeeded with that and erased them from both existences, and i'd guess are imperial standards optimally,from memory too?
Would such be absolved if we got an Arbities judge or whoever would have the authority to sanction, or would they be overruled by the inquisition even if so?

If not what should/would be the (expected) level of imperial response, a penitent crusade? whole chapter put in stasis? , execution of the chapter master? Sate-sponsored murder of the chapter, state-sponsored murder of all our collaborators, or state-sponsored murder of the world?
All except the second are responses that have occurred canonically barring the second and as far as I am aware. My awareness likely being far more limited than yours on matters of the imperium

Or would it not actually matter in the first place because some factions in the inquisition want our entire chapter murdered anyway?
The justification of which is a different question from this that was already addressed in a fairly opaque manner(given I have no idea remotely how much of their actions against us were consensus)
 
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