Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)

What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?

  • Mercy (Diplomacy and Expansion)

    Votes: 166 76.9%

  • Ruthlessness (Kick the Duchy in the Balls)

    Votes: 51 23.6%

  • Thule (Yeeni Handholding and Piscarian Cuddling)

    Votes: 84 38.9%
  • Total voters
    216
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i look forward to Laurents plan here, atfterwards we can potentially get a 4th action again, which case MORE VI!!!

i think in this case VI will actually help, and even if we have to settle at least 2 billion from the hive across each world, we may be able to house all the people from the hive pressure reduction, and with more worlds taken in our war against the imperial remnant, the more we can settle and do a population relief effort.

though i do look forward to seeing what we can figure out from the imperial's argi worlds, as even with automation, redeveloping them to be able to be both self sufficient and making more food then ever before, we can probably get Food industry up and running a few levels. Also send Chocolate over to the hive world as a bribe for the gangs and other entities...i do hope when we learn about the genestealers we dont end up with horrific casulties and probability of having them show up in our worlds.

nids are horrific to fight.
 
Pempelune said:
Sophont Workforce, etc is probably about making our current automation better, so more scouts and more War-Packs. Not really necessary IMO, we should have enough of both by the time war starts.
The first one though, increases industry throughput - I think we can be fairly confident that voidships count as industry throughput, so we should probably do this before doing the SBG.
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I don't think we can actually afford to wait to do any SBG progress until we've done a bunch of other stuff.

Increasing VI (which as I noted is the most clear and evident way to increase output of, well, Void Industry) is something that has to be done alongside taking SBGs, even if that might hypothetically be slightly less efficient, because the alternative is winding up stuck in a late-game SBG bottleneck.
 
The Laurent said:
Increasing VI (which as I noted is the most clear and evident way to increase output of, well, Void Industry) is something that has to be done alongside taking SBGs, even if that might hypothetically be slightly less efficient, because the alternative is winding up stuck in a late-game SBG bottleneck.
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The problem is that it takes two actions to increase VI and starting to build space habitats that are not going to be filled for decades sounds wastefull.
 
The Laurent said:
Increasing VI (which as I noted is the most clear and evident way to increase output of, well, Void Industry) is something that has to be done alongside taking SBGs, even if that might hypothetically be slightly less efficient, because the alternative is winding up stuck in a late-game SBG bottleneck.
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l'm not sold on this plan at all. Increasing VI by one is unlikely to make any difference in the time it takes to build a SBG. What are we going to do, spend 6 actions on it?
Meanwhile this research is 2 actions, or more like 1.5 actions thanks to our research bonuses. It's way more efficient.
 
Amilia said:
The problem is that it takes two actions to increase VI and starting to build space habitats that are not going to be filled for decades sounds wastefull.
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...no? It isn't? It's called preparing for future problems. Presumably in the meantime the space habitats are going to serve as ship-building/construction/etc sources, which would explain why building enough of them is equivilent to increasing VI.

Pempelune said:
l'm not sold on this plan at all. Increasing VI by one is unlikely to make any difference in the time it takes to build a SBG. What are we going to do, spend 6 actions on it?
Meanwhile this research is 2 actions, or more like 1.5 actions thanks to our research bonuses. It's way more efficient.
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We should do both? But note, you currently have not the least and frankest fraction of an idea of what if any aid the Automation action will have to SBG construction time.

Like, your claim is that increasing the thing whose entire purpose is building void industry will have a much lesser effect than the automation research?
 
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Toboe said:
The second point is why the "potential" is there and also makes me question our rules on the first point.

If Chaos corruption is always a risk, not spreading our anti-chaos umbrella is an unimaginable cruelty. Risking them being enslaved by chaos.
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That's the classic prime directive debate, isn't it.

Because it's not just chaos, as chaos isn't the only source of suffering and death.
Plague, Famine, Crisis, War, deprivation.

All of those are not uncommon in your bronze age societies, and almost certainly far more moths are dying from preventable disease than falling to chaos.
 
The Laurent said:
...no? It isn't? It's called preparing for future problems.
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Not when we are not planning on triggering the revolt in the next 5 to 10 turns. We are nowhere near ready to start the ground campaign so those habitats built for 10 billion people each are going to be ghost town for close to a century. Those habitats will still need to be maintained while they are not producing anything.

It is a waste of resources to build them before we begin preparing to actually take Voxx. Y'know, the planet that will eat 20 SAGs per turn.
 
Pempelune said:
Yes. I strongly doubt going up one level will change our ship production speed when it didnt in the past. We needed multiple levels for that.
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We only (somewhat) recently gained the modern system of Ship Production! Like, are you aware of when we last took Void Industry? It was quite a long time ago, I'd have to actually look it up because damn is it a long time ago.

Plus, we're one off of VI-X!


Amilia said:
Not when we are not planning on triggering the revolt in the next 5 to 10 turns. We are nowhere near ready to start the ground campaign so those habitats built for 10 billion people each are going to be ghost town for close to a century. Those habitats will still need to be maintained while they are not producing anything.

It is a waste of resources to build them before we begin preparing to actually take Voxx. Y'know, the planet that will eat 20 SAGs per turn.
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I don't know how to tell you, but that's not how our action economy works. If we wait for it until we're "preparing to take Voxx in the next 5-10 years" that's the same as not doing them at all.

Maintaining them is 100% below our level of abstraction!
 
To clarify here, in 460 our Void Industry was 10. It's decreased since then and we've never increased it at any point in time since then, and it's been nearly 300 years, and we're confused at what we need to do to increase our capabilities specifically for VOIDCRAFT?

@HeroCooky , what if any are the major waste/upkeep concerns with habitat building ala:

-[] Habitat Stations (0/?)

And how major are they?
 
The Laurent said:
Plus, we're one off of VI-X!
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Just a reminder, we've already gotten the VI-10 Milestone Trait. You and Alectai successfully argued for the +25% DP Trait over the Increased Ship Production/Action or Automated %-based Destroyer Production traits I was advoctating for.

Edit: Seems like you do remember that, sorry, it just seemed otherwise from how you said the above.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
Just a reminder, we've already gotten the VI-10 Milestone Trait. You and Alectai successfully argued for the +25% DP Trait over the Increased Ship Production/Action or Automated %-based Destroyer Production traits I was advoctating for.
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It's paid off pretty handsomely, all things considered, and we did eventually wind up with

Logistical Production Analytica
With more information regarding the use and logistical challenges set against interstellar ship procurement and defense, our shipyards can be optimized to increase our output by a massive degree.
(Gain: 50% Increased Ship Production Rate)

Anyway!
 
As far as it goes, we've wound up basically being able to, over time, get all three bonuses, effectively:


[] Logistical Production Analytica
With more information regarding the use and logistical challenges set against interstellar ship procurement and defense, our shipyards can be optimized to increase our output by a massive degree.
(Gain: 50% Increased Ship Production Rate)

[] The Wonders Of Economy Of Scale
"Look, the deal is simple. You buy a certain amount, I add a bit ontop, and we both make more money when the Fleet starts knocking on our doors on the Regular."
(Gain: Automated Production of Destroyers. 20% of total Action-given capacity. Must be directed.)

20% of action-given capacity would have probably rounded up to 4.

So we're a bit off that, but our recent Investment in automation has been good. It also hasn't reduced SBG costs at all, though I do not in any way regret it.

But the fact that Destroyer Automation has not really touched SBGs is a reason to be uncertain whether Automation, as great as it is to improve, is the golden BB for SBG speed.

Amilia said:
So we can just build space habitats big enough to house billions of people and just leave them empty for over a century with no repercussions?
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I mean, the presumption is that you have people/routines to... keep it up? It's just that the population of the Federation is over twenty-five billion.
 
The Laurent said:
Count it. They have four different fleets that are equal to one of our SBGs, plus all the little SDFs.
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They probably can't throw their entire military strength at us. They're 5/5 dogmatic, they almost certainly don't have *any* peaceful frontiers the way we do. If they pulled all of their forces to attack us then somebody else would start rolling them up. They can probably only throw 2/3 of their full capacity at us, and that's still "maximum panic."

Further, if we spend a few actions having our cults infiltrate the defense stations then we both don't need to fight them and get to use them for defense and ship building after taking Voxx.

Finally, I'm expecting our shipbuilding capabilities to expand in the next 5ish turns when our new colonies finish maturing. That will give us more design & build capacity. @HeroCooky am I wrong to expect that at some point? Did it already happen and was just less significant than I'm expecting? I think we've increased in size by 12 planets since the last time our build capacity updated.

All that being said, I don't think we need to go super-hard on military super-soon, since our build capacity will increase.

@HeroCooky Can we put in a free action to observe the Mothomes? Just keep an eye on them and get updates. If they are chaos-worshipping, maybe we can figure that out and plan what to do about it.
 
Amilia said:
So we can just build space habitats big enough to house billions of people and just leave them empty for over a century with no repercussions?
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I doubt they'll be fully empty. They'd need to have maintenance crews, who'd likely move their families out there, and there would need to be personnel who will help the Hivers acclimatize to living on a void-station, and those specialists will likely bring people with them, who will need-

Basically, I feel like these stations will be home to 2 or 3 million people in the time until we start shipping billions of Hivers out to them.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
I doubt they'll be fully empty. They'd need to have maintenance crews, who'd likely move their families out there, and there would need to be personnel who will help the Hivers acclimatize to living on a void-station, and those specialists will likely bring people with them, who will need-

Basically, I feel like these stations will be home to 2 or 3 million people in the time until we start shipping billions of Hivers out to them.
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Also, the fact that building three means increasing VI and it's apparently not temporary makes me imagine that it has, well, Void Industry that's going on as well?
 
Amilia said:
So we can just build space habitats big enough to house billions of people and just leave them empty for over a century with no repercussions?
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I didn't say that. I said that it is below your level of abstraction.
Neablis said:
@HeroCooky am I wrong to expect that at some point? Did it already happen and was just less significant than I'm expecting? I think we've increased in size by 12 planets since the last time our build capacity updated.
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You are not wrong to expect that at some point. Just not now.
Neablis said:
@HeroCooky Can we put in a free action to observe the Mothomes? Just keep an eye on them and get updates.
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Yeah, you can. I'm still not going to give you updates unless you ask tho, that's too much work for me.
 
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