Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter tri2
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Hmm, another suggestion. How about another work around to the issue that we rent out ships with Repulsors on them to businesses that work in travel? To avoid companies worrying about such things we create a contract that makes it so that PI agrees to not use the ships ourselves but to rent it out to other companies with conditions for safety reasons which include them technically owning shipyards and maybe even the ship themselves under the condition that said ships and shipyards operate under SA surveillance?
Something like these companies owning shipyards that house the ships but the SA controls them. Companies will still gain all the profit but SA will take on the expenses of watching and maintaining the ships for security reasons in regards to the Repulsors and to get around the issue of civilians being in control of such technology. Seems like a win for both sides since companies will not only still profit of them but the SA is footing the bills in other areas while this deal would allow for more migration and help with the overpopulation issues along with spreading humanities influence.
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So...idea. Can't we just expand to every SA colony available and even start funding/creating new colonies from scratch and just keep recruiting/enticing people and their families to join our company? You guys are overthinking things to a hilarious degree.
We (Revy and Shepard Industries) are in the process of (if we haven't acquired it already) achieving a reputation of solid platinum and all we have to do is send out the fliers after doing the prep work, so that people who want a better future will flock to us in droves.
Heck, if people are worried about being defended, our new (and future) planetary defenses along with future expansions of ParSec will handily deal with that issue.
We (Revy and Shepard Industries) are in the process of (if we haven't acquired it already) achieving a reputation of solid platinum and all we have to do is send out the fliers after doing the prep work, so that people who want a better future will flock to us in droves.
Heck, if people are worried about being defended, our new (and future) planetary defenses along with future expansions of ParSec will handily deal with that issue.
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We were discussing the economic benefits? I don't disagree with the egg basket thing necessarily, but I don't see how it relates.
Valid point about the potential difficulty in growth on earth.
Why the opportunity doesn't exist matters a huge amount!!! If the opportunity doesn't exist on Earth and we don't know why. Why do we think that it will exist in the colonies without any questioning that assumption?
If what we're actually witnessing is Wealth flight from Earth into the colonies (looking at you Musk) then colonies could potentially be self sustaining on the basis of automation before plug and play came into the matter. We might be shipping people off to where they're not welcome and unneeded.
I mean if we think about it. If you're starting up a colony what are you going to ship there: Thousands of humans with all the life support equipment associated, or the bare minimum humans and enough robotics to Von Neuman the colony into something stable.
I also expect a race to the bottom in labour conditions
. After all there is no significant training cost or trouble finding replacements. Companies can burn out workers like they're Amazon warehouse staff and not suffer (in the short term at least, we'll see how that Amazon is running out of people goes).I do agree that some will benefit, however what I'm saying is that the equilibrium will eventually return the labour market to exactly where the disadvantaged pool are currently, except it will now include everyone who is a worker rather than just those who work the worst paid jobs.
Yes, while current professionals can try and refuse to work for less, its questionable if it would work for juniors in highly skilled professional positions if the Plug and Play means they're competing against the skills of a senior, what we'll just see is cycles of people willing to undercut the last generation. And eventually people will have to give in and eat.
I've outlined below speaking about the 3 month living cost assumptions but the scale of wealth inequality is absolutely mind boggling. Especially where remote working is a viable option, you could likely pay a team of poorer plug and players internationally to replace a single professional.
At the end of the day it should be absolutely obvious. The winners in this are the people buying in the labour market not the people selling.
E: You are correct we don't know anything about social security nets, just that in all likelihood the majority of the planets population lives in massive sprawling slums.
Frankly the wealth inequality makes me really unconfident about this estimate.
Unless @tri2 is going to WoG handwave the ridiculous statement that less developed nations have barely moved, that means all the growth in global gdp capita happened in just 30%(?) of the worlds populations.
I haven't been able to find good numbers that don't require me to sum up all countries however this works alright
| % of world population | GDP per capita at Current Date | GDP per capita at ME Date |
| 70 | $ 10,000 | $ 10,000 |
| 30 | $ 35,000 | $ 160,000 |
| World average | $ 17,500 | $ 55,000 |
So following this, the cost of living in the colonies is probably triple your estimate, the GDP Capita of the 30% not the world average.
This also assumes that population demographics haven't changed rather than continuing to grow in the developing world and shrink in the developed which would inflate the difference even more. So we've got some pretty huge error margins here.
If PA is also taking an upfront role in this and we're expecting to have a massive impact, we're likely also going to have to do something to provide the infrastructure to handle this huge swell of colonies. Nobody is better off if they don't have enough tractors to farm food for the new arrivals.
What do you think all those factories in production are?
We're already expanding to everywhere that meets our requirements.
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Personally I want us to keep it in house. Imagine the horror of fucking Cerberus getting ahold of that tech!
But I'm also hoping that we just start importing millions of people, chip them up and set them to manning our factories and maintaining our future colonies.
We're reaching the point where we can just people off the street and since it's Paragon Industries doing it, they'll be assured that we're not going to enslave them or treat them like crap (like other megacorps would).
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Yes, collapsing the labour market and bringing on a new Gilded Age that may bring on the revolution for luxury space communism is.
The costs of moving to a colony bits aren't.
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*SIgh* As a reminder to people we blackboxed our tech to prevent people from reverse engineering them. Seriously, why the hell did we spend so much time researching blackboxing to the point that it's literally impossible for any organization yet alone the governments of the galaxy to reverse engineer our tech if people are just going to keep making the same complaints despite so?
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Nobody was talking about Cerberus reverse engineering it.
Slayer was talking about Cerberus buying it on the open market. Specifically, that we shouldn't sell it so they couldn't get their hands on it. The obvious implication here is that Black boxing is believed to be sufficient to protect it.
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This. Blackboxing prevents reverse engineering, not buying it and abusing it. Even if we only sell to the SA military, enough will conveniently 'fall out the airlock' of a cargo freighter, straight into their hands.
Fuck Cerberus for being such inconvenient, hard men making hard decisions while hard, Reaper indoctrinated assholes!
I'm at least willing to consider loaning the SA military the tech to help them train up their troops faster. If you can squeeze in six months of weapons familiarization into three without much difficulty, then a general rise in marksmanship might be expected. Or you just go with the effectively three months of training in a month and a half and use the remaining time on, say, physical conditioning, or additional technical training, or teamwork exercises. I imagine the SA wouldn't turn up their noses at the tech, but I'm not keen on spreading it around the SA civilian sphere without some sort of legal and ethical framework for its use. PI is a dictatorship (attempting to be benevolent and successful more often than not) but P&P is a very abusable technology and while I expect to eventually let it loose in the wild, I don't want to just toss it out there and say 'to the strongest' like Alexander did.
Question; how much of the modular colony kits do we need to produce ourselves, and how much could we enter into a partnership with some small business in the colonies making them to supply potential workers/immigrants? Without getting into topics like 'a new serfdom' or 'company towns', taking people without the ability to pay their transit could apply to work on a colony that PI (or affiliated colonial companies?) has a presence on, get accepted and provided the basics for living there (home, transport, utilities etc) and modest percentage of their wages are garnished (~10%? I'm honestly unsure what a fair and reasonable number would be here) to pay off the move. Maybe talk to colonial governments and say 'half of the money PI or other companies put into this slush fund counts as taxes paid, up to X amount'? I don't know, but I think there's got to be some sort of clever financial scheme to make this work rather than just building more ships and going "free fares to the colonies".
I propose that in our next quarter's actions, we conduct a series of polls asking questions like 'would you be willing to move to the colonies' and 'what is keeping people from emigrating' so that IC we can get some answers to these questions so we can start working to solve problems rather than invent them. Similarly I'd like to build up the other businesses in the colonies so we're seen as a champion and friend, not a bully. Good for relations and good for politics, and if we can get a half dozen other planets membership status that buys us political heft in the long term.
Unrelated, but what do people think about building a bunch of factories in the Arcturus system and just have them producing high quality ship grade Eezo for sale to the SA military/PI's personal use? (I want Artificial Eezo Production researched in case that was unclear).
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the P and P tech is a cybernetic implant for those who do not realize it. So you would be selling implants that require invasive surgery to be installed. You can imagine it similar visually to the Cyberpunk 2077 head implant, imagine the scene where jackie gave you the biochip to slot into your head, the implant would be the thing allowing for slotting in chips.
I'm imagining the horror of Cerberus with the PnP tech.
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I'm not impressed.
Cerberus having the tech makes things easier on their test subjects, and isn't all that big a deal if everyone else, or even just every other human, also has access to the tech.
Here's the thing, other people knowing about and using the tech is how you counter people like Cerberus. It's the same reason Microsoft doesn't deal with hackers by only allowing it's employees and the military to use computers.
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I'm not impressed.
Cerberus having the tech makes things easier on their test subjects, and isn't all that big a deal if everyone else, or even just every other human, also has access to the tech.
Here's the thing, other people knowing about and using the tech is how you counter people like Cerberus. It's the same reason Microsoft doesn't deal with hackers by only allowing it's employees and the military to use computers.
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Heres the deal.
Presumably in canon, Cerberus either had to hold back on its most risky projects or had to slow down because Taco carts kept killing its scientists.
They don't have to do that any more.
I can't even think of a Cerberus experiment where plug and play would be relevant to the test subjects. You think its relevant to that time they were experimenting on Rachni or something?
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- United states
Another thing to consider is that unlike canon here Revy is a comicbook level super genius who specializes in singlehandedly moving tech forward rapidly. It seems like it would be really hard for Cerberus to justify the more cartoonishly evil and cruel experiments due to Revy's mere existence. What with Revy making hundreds to thousands of years of advancements on a regula basis and doing so humanely.
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Revy isn't making any advancements related to Rachni or Thresher Maws though. We never saw an experimental Cerberus power plant.
If anything her success would encourage people to try their luck in their own fields.
And what good are rachni now? Compared to say cloned humans with downloaded super soldier training?
Wasn't Jack, the super biotic a cerberus project? Guess what we just trivialized?
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I meant the more inhumane and needlessly evil things. It's one thing to research rachni and Thresher Maws, it's another to do cruel and inhumane experiments on people, especially humans. Something else to note is that Cerberus didn't go full rogue until Mass Effect 1 and until then they were still part of the SA officially.
Yeah the thing with Jack still happened here but that did seem to have been one of the rogue cells that acted even outside of TIMs influence. If anything TIM would have likely been extremely furious they they used PI tech for something that monstrous since that risked getting Revy's attention and Cerberus really don't want Revy as an enemy for numerous reasons. Main one likely because even they aren't willing to assassinate Revy since that would not only be a colossal blow to humanity due to Revy being humanities greatest asset but would pretty much have them declared persona non grata among the entirety of SA space including the vast majority of allies in the SA.
Point is that Revy being Revy makes it really hard for Cerberus to justify the more extreme and inhumane experiments that they tried in canon eventually.
This^^ Cerberus has to try to justify why certain experiments are necessary. In another timeline the excuse 'for humanity' might have worked for some but with Revy around it doesn't really work as well when said person can not only figure out a way to not only mass produce biotics but also probably make her own version of super biotics as well in just a few years and humanely as well. Seriously, the whole deliberately exposing people to Eezo thing likely wouldn't have happened if Revy around since it might just been seen as a needlessly cruel way of giving humans biotics on mass when someone like Revy would just figure it out in less than a decade.
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Okay so you've just justified one questionably moral probably going to explode in Cerberus's face experiment rather than a different one?
We do not see many cases of human cloning in canon, the two examples I can think of are Miranda and arguably large parts of Sheps body as a result of the lazarus project. Cerberus are still doing mad science in your example just a different one to canon?
Not really, like a lot of Jacks experimentation wasn't how do we teach to use biotics good, it was actual experimentation about how to increase the raw power. They still did that. And even given we could teach everyone to her standard, they still wouldn't have the same power.
Anyway the fact that Jacks experiment seems to have gone on anyway does suggest that no, Cerberus isn't going to wait for Revy to develop everything (especially when we keep stuff in house) and infact Revys experiments encourage them to accelerate and self destruct even faster (giving jack a Revy implant boosted her power to the point she escaped much earlier than in canon).
You know exactly what I said.
It is actually a tri question if we can though, Biotics are induced through electric fields applied to ME fields, sounds like the sort of thing that could theoretically throw a cybernetic brain chip for a loop. Probably we can, maybe we can't.
The thresher maw experiment was luring a bunch of soldiers into one and video taping what happened. It was inhumane and done on human subjects.
I'm not sure Cerberus was ever involved in the SA except its founding members being mercenaries
Article: Cerberus became known to the public after a failed attempt to steal antimatter from the cruiser SSV Geneva in 2165.
I don't care if this was a rogue cell its existence is proof that scientists aren't just going to sit on their thumbs and wait for god-scientist Rebecca Shepard to dispense all of the knowledge.
And honestly doubt the Illusive man would care either. This is the same guy who was so confident in his ability to manipulate someone, that he gave a one of a kind bleeding edge stealth cruiser to a person who had broken up multiple Cerberus cells and experiments. And even more notably, he succeeded. But thats a separate discussion.
Your basic assertion is that Cerberus is going to Cerberus. In which case there's no point in holding back since they're going to be awful no matter what we do. Spreading our PnP skills makes it easier for people to find them and fight them off, and when you have this sort of qualitative upgrade coming into play on both sides, the bigger boost goes to the team with the most numbers.
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Yes but no.
I can say Alcoholics going to alcoholic, that doesn't mean give them the keys to the liquor cabinet. I'm advocating against enabling self destructive tendencies, especially where other people are going to be in the blast radius.
Also the good guy with the gun narrative that making this more widely available is bullshit here, just like it is IRL. Especially given that military combat skill sets would probably be restricted anyway.
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Catching cerberus isn't about fighting them. It's about finding them, military skill sets aren't the ones we care about here.
Ok, say we don't release PnP to the public.
Guess who is still going to get it? Cerberus. They'll just murder/suborn our people and then swap the implants around as needed.
This is the fact that people need to understand, holding shit back doesn't keep it from the bad actors, it prevents everyone else from benefitting.
Ok, say we don't release PnP to the public.
Guess who is still going to get it? Cerberus. They'll just murder/suborn our people and then swap the implants around as needed.
This is the fact that people need to understand, holding shit back doesn't keep it from the bad actors, it prevents everyone else from benefitting.
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you wat?
Is this unironic gaslighting?
No, it's acknowledging that fighting has long gone beyond the point where 'military' skills are the most important aspect. They can have a thousand super soldiers with biotics and super human speed and strength and it wouldn't fucking matter because the SA has fucking warships and can turn their bases to ash without getting near them.
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What the fuck are you even arguing at this point?
Setting aside from Cerberus's ability to have a stealth ship more advanced than the original Normandy, nobody is arguing that Cerberus is going to attempt to invade the SA and there will be naval battles.
You are the one who brought up a fight, prior to that we were all discussing this in the context of it letting them make their terrible experiments worse or not.