Probably not, no. Remember, they're about two days out of 1999, and they left before Void Adaptation kicked in, and they said they had no contact with other Union branches. And they're Iteration X, who were forbidden from learning DSci pre-1999.

They're more like "2 days out of Autochthon after it turned hostile (after Void Adaptation kicked in)", they're just the guys who managed to survive that plus the Computer being all scowlyface at everyone who didn't end up being Void Adapted.

Their plan would probably be "shoot anything he shows up in! He'll run out of bodies eventually! And he's barely a real combatant, so you won't even need the real heavy firepower" Which is true from their PoV, but not very useful.

It's a phenomenal plan, why don't people like it? "Apply firepower to face repeatedly" is a good plan.

Meanwhile, in Jamelia Quest, the players are deciding whether or not to unleash their biggest asset, the one they've spent all of Moscow setting up, and people are patting themselves on the back for doing research on Jamelia because that killswitch was a great idea. Sadly, that Rogue_Council guy hasn't revealed what Serafina's pharmacopeia contains (look, how were they supposed to know she had a wound penalty reverser).
 
Meanwhile, in Jamelia Quest, the players are deciding whether or not to unleash their biggest asset, the one they've spent all of Moscow setting up, and people are patting themselves on the back for doing research on Jamelia because that killswitch was a great idea. Sadly, that Rogue_Council guy hasn't revealed what Serafina's pharmacopeia contains (look, how were they supposed to know she had a wound penalty reverser).

You know, I was wondering why Jamelia's wound track looked strange.
 
A vampire or werewolf's powers do fit within a paradigm in Mage terms. They're either effectively a type of linear magic that fits within a paradigm/they burn Tass to stave off Paradox.

They really, really do not. They certainly don't burn Tass too stave off paradox despite not being in the global paradigm anymore then dragons because there powers aren't effected by paradox, and aren't affected by belief (say, getting lower difficulty due too how a mundane cult) in the same way that Linear Mages can. There powers certainly have a theme

That's why classic european dragons used to be able to roam around freely as real creatures and are now spirits, and why when they use a charm to breath fire it has to be fire, rather than, say, switching to sonic on the fly when facing a lignting resistant enemy, despite it being the same mechanical spirit charm they're using to do so.

I don't think classic european dragons we're actually capable of perceiving there change in there natures, but for instance we can see that there are a number of dragon spirits (the cyber-dragon's on the planet Kessler found himself in which should be in the deep umbra) that certainly don't represent the creatures of myth, and have likely changed as they've become spirits.

It is true, at least if I'm reading Infinite Tapestry correctly.

Have you checked the descriptions about the process in the new void engineer convention book?



Remember that the top level Autocthonians were exceptionally high powered mages before. They could well have had this kind of abilities, even if they couldn't use them easily.


I'm going too be more clear here, and I'm going to outright say expecting a Threat_Null spirit to work it's powers like standard technocratic Enlightened Science works, because not only do mages tend to change how they perceive themselves as the Umbra twists from a biological entity to a Spirit/EDE, but the senior leadership was completely aware that they were doing magic pre-1999, that they were imposing the laws of physics on humanity, ect. The assumption that there powers work according to a standard technocratic paradigm that relies on hard science, or even science at all, is definitely not a safe one. For goodness sakes, just getting past Enlightenment 5 means you start outgrowing foci.


That's largely why I think he isn't a spirit, and instead has received an Investment from his new masters.

I don't even think that would be necessary especially since becoming a Agent would grant immortality anyway, but I'm also not entirely sure Threat_Null would have access to those sorts of mechanics.
 
I wonder what the Jamelia Quest players think of Mahou Shounen SeaDart-kun?

Probably don't trust nor like him at all, and blatantly show it with how the sub-Avatar treats him. :(

There's probably a lone guy who is convinced that his defection was all a ploy to get an insider into Panopticon, but that'd just be crazy -- it's not like you can do anything about Conditioning. He'll probably feel vindicated if it ever comes out that Siddharth was putting in a few subtle "fuck you's" in his approach or something.
 
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So, Panopticon has just come damn near literally out of nowhere, and started throwing out killswitches.

There is literally no way for them to justify having or using this, and facing 'rogue iterators' that can get NWO killswitch codes has quite officially reached a level of kill them right fucking now that Command will both understand and agree with.

[X] Titanfall
 
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There's a number of ways Gretkov could be doing this, but I think the Matrix Agent explanation is the simplest one. That suggests that this is a Spirit 4 effect, perhaps with conjunctional matter/forces/ effects to recreate his chosen equipment. Gretkov isn't actually here, and may no longer exist as a physical entity, rather he has become an EDE or- far more likely, has an EDE integrated with him that allows him/it to use the spirit 4 effect 'bridge' or 'channel' to overlay onto a compatible being. It is effectively possession, though I maintain doubts that it is unlimited in scope. In all likelihood, he is limited by the number of eVictors in the vicinity. They probably have some sort of hardware installed to make them appropriate targets for this effect.

There's also likely a time 2/entropy 2 predictive effect in operation here, that switches which eVictor he is manifesting from whenever one would die, or alternatively, eVictors have achieved the ultimate goal of mass produced soldiers and are sufficiently identical in their pattern that all that would be needed to switch manifestations would be for the underlying pattern to deviate- at which point it would no longer qualify for the targeting effect and the switch would occur automatically. However this usage is getting really far into the metamechanics of the game, and I'm uncertain if it is likely to be the solution. It depends on how much work Auto-chan has put into figuring out Magick, and whether or not this effect is True Magick (as performed by mages) or a spirit effect. There's some overlap, and sufficiently powerful spirits are capable of pretty much anything, but there are some things they just can't do easily.


I would expect that, duplicating his gear and having made preparations, Gretkov probably has some kind of device on him that he can use to make someone into an appropriate target for the possession effect. Well, unless Auto-chan lied and/or didn't tell him how his new powers worked, both entirely possible. If getting nerf imprinted or whatever isn't a concern, then we really just need to eliminate all the eVics in the vicinity. That won't guarantee a kill, because he may not even actually be here, but instead wherever he's broadcasting from, but it would likely allow for the temporary elimination of Gretkov as a threat, since he'd need to either transit whichever body he's in back to the location from wherever he respawned, or just not come back at all.

If we had some sort of dSci or Spirit expert on hand, they could probably figure out what he's doing and act to counter it, but our two experts are currently in the Umbra dealing with some Voids ready to push the button. And honestly I don't think pushing The Button is the right choice here.


Instead my proposal is this:

[X] Yeah no, you're not killing a bunch of people just because it's inconvenient. Do you have another way?
|_[X] The bomb is an impressive weapon, but the threat to the human population is too high, particularly given that a number of the members of our team have cybernetics of various types and would be aversely affected. Instead, we hold the bomb in reserve, have the Voids focus on destroying the jammers, and send Kessler and Cross planetside to locate the local relay and call in firesupport.

Jumping between the Umbra and the Earth will do a number on Enlightened Personnel, and we can't risk more damage. Fortunately, there's a solution. Basically Kessler and Cross ride their hijacked titans down to Earth. This is a spirit/Dsci effect that shields them with the spirit, the Anomaly will shred the spirit and leave them unharmed. This is typically frowned upon by Dreamspeakers and may get you chased by angry spirits- but those are usual spirits and those who care about the natural way of things. These spirits are highly focused artificially made constructs that we've hijacked. None of those ethical considerations should even begin to apply when dealing with them.

It's not quite surfing the Mir back to land, but it definitely stands to be pretty awesome.
 
So, Panopticon has just come damn near literally out of nowhere, and started throwing out killswitches.

There is literally no way for them to justify having or using this, and facing 'rogue iterators' that can get NWO killswitch codes has quite officially reached a level of kill them right fucking now that Command will both understand and agree with.
Having it, justified, using it, ehhhh. Borderline. It's shady as fuck, but...
Serafina does a random-walk trawl of dozens of internal Union sites to shield herself from being spotted looking And there.

Panopticon. Union internal security. Created 1995, directly answering to Control itself to root out Nephandic corruption and people getting too close to the Reality Deviants. Internal police, specializing in shock tactics. Control specifically kept them from ever officially showing up on any operation. Operations suspended-or at least shady internal door-kickings without anyone to attribute them to ceased-1999. Fully independent of all other Conventions equipment-wise, essentially a Convention in and of itself.
From the very update you apparently need to read a bit closer, they're Technocratic internal security. They have every reason to have gear and codes to deal with Technocrats on account of, well, that being their legitimate job. Now, they've acted a bit outside jurisdiction in Hong Kong, and have done something extremely fucked up here, but it's only enough to raise suspicions.
 
Having it, justified, using it, ehhhh. Borderline. It's shady as fuck, but...

From the very update you apparently need to read a bit closer, they're Technocratic internal security. They have every reason to have gear and codes to deal with Technocrats on account of, well, that being their legitimate job. Now, they've acted a bit outside jurisdiction in Hong Kong, and have done something extremely fucked up here, but it's only enough to raise suspicions.
That assumes that we tell Command about fighting Panopticon.

Seriously, don't get into passive-aggressive 'You apparently don't know what you're talking about' bullshit. That helps nobody.

Anyway, the plan, as I'm aware of it, is to blame all of this mess on the 'Rogue Iterators' and simply cast Panopticon as being dangerously incompetent and reckless
 
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That assumes that we tell Command about fighting Panopticon.
We did. That's literally what Serafina just did. Go back and reread the update, FFS.
Seriously, don't get into passive-aggressive 'You apparently don't know what you're talking about' bullshit. That helps nobody.
Okay, then let me go aggressive-aggressive. You have not only not read and understood the update, you are actively proud of your ignorance and seem to be happy to be without any idea what you're talking about. Cease and desist posting, FFS.
Anyway, the plan, as I'm aware of it, is to blame all of this mess on the 'Rogue Iterators' and simply cast Panopticon as being dangerously incompetent and reckless
Yeah, that's the formal plan, and especially for the after-action report. However, this is literally step 1 towards discrediting Panopticon, which dropping the GIANT DOOM ROBOT on a couple gunships, an APC, and some infantry will not help. Proportionality, you putz. Remember that we're supposed to keep the magic misused Enlightened Science and hypertech secret? Remember how that GIANT DOOM ROBOT has 60 seconds of battery life? Remember how we're not supposed to break the DOOM ROBOT because it's super fucking valuable? What do you think dropping it will do, especially if Panopticon waits 60 seconds and then drops something heavy and nasty on top of it?
 
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Jamelia has just been explicitly informed that she's up against an EDE.

Jamelia doesn't have DimSci.

Especially given the resurrection trick Gretkov is pulling, I don't think she should be assuming "squish robobitch" is going to be enough to make her go away - she needs to contact someone who does have those Spheres to be certain of actually landing a kill on her primary target.

Either way, she should disengage from Gretkov - fighting someone who's pretty much irrelevant in the larger scope without any clue of how to put him down? Not a good way of spending time, especially if you're the operation's commander.
 
Either way, she should disengage from Gretkov - fighting someone who's pretty much irrelevant in the larger scope without any clue of how to put him down? Not a good way of spending time, especially if you're the operation's commander.

It's a good thing Jamelia has coincidental teleportation at her disposal, which gives her unparalleled freedom to pick and choose her battles and tactical flexibility.
 
Question -- if we were able to give out a warning to the friendly ItX and all the heavily modified people, about the incoming EP bomb... could they proof themselves against it? Buffer themselves, shut down enhancements, run on autistic mode, get in Faraday-cage bunkers etc?

Because I think it's possible that if the VEs drop their bomb... that it might take out a lot of (if not all) the Interators/IBM dudes that just came from Autochthonia... Which would be a loss for us.

And kind of make the whole thing a hollow/pyrrhic victory.
 
Well the point would be to do it subtle without giving our enemies warning of it.


But anyway, if we aren't using the bomb, then what are we going to do instead? ... Just kill shit in the Umbra and hope Jamelia can handle things topside, possibly with the judicious use of Shockwave Codes?
 
Well I figured we'd have the VA's drop a nuke or two on the jammer EDE's and Kessler and Cross can ride their hijacked Moflakkers down from orbit to the rescue- keep in mind they have the information needed to get Henriette to drop- I mean yes, she knows that the interface terminal is there, but knowing that it's the central relay point for the control signal is pretty solid, and we can use that as a proper justification, "Why yes, when we realized that it was the command and control interface the rogue iterators used to seize control over every automated system and a significant chunk of the augmented personnel in Moscow, we realized that we needed to eliminate it before any further collateral damage was caused. Sure Apocalypse Canceler burns a couple thousand dollars every second of operation time, but as the Syndicate can tell you all that minor collateral damage adds up, and we thought it better to err on the side of caution."

Because that's really what's going on here. We're erring on the side of caution, especially given what we've figured out. Yes, we need to justify dropping the robot- but you guys might consider that we'll also have to justify not dropping the robot if it turns out we didn't drop it when we had vital information and thought 'nah, save it for a bigger threat', when we have the biggest possible threat.


We don't have to tell Command that this is a sub-avatar of the rogue Control EDE or whatever, but we could quite likely sell them on the idea that it is a technocratic derived EDE responsible for the rogue iterators. Sort of a 'Threat Null lite', despite it ACTUALLY BEING THREAT NULL. The idea that there is a technocratic AI that went nuts out there and lead a bunch of outsystem iterators planetside is just scary enough on the small scale to get the void engineers more funding, and encourage the rest of the conventions to take a closer look at their operations to ensure it's really them running things. Mimetic takeovers are scary stuff, and while we might have to worry about the voids staring over our shoulders, getting stuffed into a blood oath or whatever may actually be detrimental to our operations. Someone needs to sell Command on this, because the Voids are likely to just cover it all up and turn on the ignorance baffles- and that may have direct consequences to our Amalgam's continued operations.
 
Making the Title Meaningful: Phase 2 Shockwave Codes
Well the point would be to do it subtle without giving our enemies warning of it.

But anyway, if we aren't using the bomb, then what are we going to do instead? ... Just kill shit in the Umbra and hope Jamelia can handle things topside, possibly with the judicious use of Shockwave Codes?

Right, Shockwave Codes. I should give you the second set, shouldn't I?

Phase 2 Shockwave Codes

Due to current subversion risk and IFF issues, most Iteration X derivatives and many autonomous systems are currently unavailable. Please select 2 of the below codes. Keep in mind what you plan to use them for.

Progenitors:

[ ] TEMPO Cognitive Accelerant (may choose twice)
  • Experimental Cognitive Accelerant
  • Time 5/Mind 5/Prime 5 : Increases ability to use Enlightened Science (Enlightened Science is reflexive, increased usage rate)
  • Double-dose improves all Enlightened Science and Enlightenment by 1 for duration, causes 1 AHL of feedback damage every time Enlightened Science is used
  • Feedback can cause significant brain damage (1 Aggravated HL/3 seconds of active use)
  • Remote Administration Authorized
  • By Administering You Permanently Waive Any Objections To Death or Permanent Mental Damage
[ ] Damage Control BLACKWATCH Unit
  • Mixed squad of constructs and enhanced operatives (~20 units)
  • Heavy weaponry and phenomenal personal capability
  • Capable of operation on confused battlefields
  • Capable of independent thought
  • May not cooperate with RDs

Iteration X:


[ ] RAIN (Rocket Assisted Impactor Network) Satellite Weapons System
  • Advanced Satellite Weapons Platform
  • Fires high-density osmium kill packages at hypervelocity through atmosphere
  • Kill radius adjustable from 10 to 100m
  • Authorization Required for Strategic Kill System
  • Targeting Directly Slaved To Designated Operative
[ ] Killswitch System
  • Enlightenment 6
  • Capable of analyzing ItX serial numbers and generating valid shutdown codes (Mind 4/Entropy 3 direct attack)
  • Bypasses standard firewalls (Prime 3)
  • Multithreaded processing allows for shutdown of multiple rogue units at once (Correspondence 4) within limits of computational capacity
  • Killswitch System is highly advanced supercomputer, only requires valid Iteration X laser transmitter
  • Effective against Virtual Adept and Etherite machines by finding unpatched exploits to integrate traitor code
IBM:
[ ] Daemon Deployment
  • 3 War-Daemons: Stono, Yanga, Amistad
  • Named After Slave Revolts
  • Advanced biomechanical EDEs, no Paradox Effects
  • EDEs further improved via Iteration X grafts-primium shells, hyperalloy skeletal reinforcements, high-powered energy weapons powered by EDE internal spark
  • Capable of transforming into fully-functional mundane military vehicles for disguise purposes
  • May be misidentified as hostile EDEs
  • Irreplaceable
[ ] Militia Unit
  • Light, relatively low-paradox noncombatant unit hastily drafted for operations Earthside
  • Relatively minimal augmentation: Average combat capability ~= HITMark V
  • Deploying with low-profile weapons: Anti-tank railguns, Antimateriel gauss rifles, smart missile launchers, custom-built IFVs (~= Roland IFV level)
  • 5 Enlightened Scientists, ~10 Exceptional Citizens with limited, inflexible understanding of Applied Enlightened Science
  • Irreplaceable

New World Order:


[ ] WIGWAM Experimental Anti-RD Strategic Weapon
  • Paradox Bomb (Prime 5/Correspondence 5)
  • Clearance Level SERAPHIC/8X required to requisition
  • Shunts most RDs into "Paradox Realm" Subdimensions
  • Does not discriminate against Enlightened Scientists
  • Untested In Civilian Areas-May Have Unwanted Side Effects
[ ] "Roland" Advanced IFVs
  • Custom-built Paladin-spec dedicated 6x6 wheeled IFVs
  • Standard armament is 35mm automatic coilgun, capable of penetrating MBT frontal armor
  • Coaxial and auxiliary armament are 2 X-14A Thunderheads
  • High-power fuel cell engine provides silent operation and racecar-like handling
  • Deployable missile rack w/Microfabricator (Matter 4), Self-Repairing Hull (Matter 4)
  • Heavy Primium Chassis
  • Active Camouflage System (Forces 2)
  • 2-unit deployment
  • Sleeper associates in Russian Army will provide driving and gunnery support
[ ] Series P Unit
  • 5 Conditioned NWO Operatives
  • Processed Reality Deviants with heavy physiopharmaceutical augmentations
  • Significant Enlightened Science Capabilities
  • Due to total lack of self-awareness are bonded to single users for duration of missions, loyalties cannot be changed or overridden
  • Equipped with H-Aug exoskeletons, IX-15s, and NSN Plasma Casters
[ ] NWO Tactical Unit
  • CRYSTAL LAKE Indoctrinated Personnel
  • No Enlightened Science, but basic functionalities equivalent to low-level Enlightened operatives
    • Increased Endurance (Life 2, reduces HL damage taken slightly)
    • Improved Mental Acuity (Mind 1 perfect recall and multitasking)
    • Improved Senses (Forces 1)
  • Company-sized unit deploying with integrated light armor support
  • Equipment is mundane but advanced Technocratic equipment (M-27 SFRs, basic strength-enhancing exoskeletons, improved body armor, etc)
  • Extremely vulnerable to hostile Reality Deviants and rogue Enlightened Operatives, but effective at securing areas
 
Well.

That's a pretty wide range of different effects we can get out of the Shockwave Codes, so before we start drooling over them we ought to consider what Jamelia currently needs.

Known hostiles that we have to worry about - whatever forces Panopticon has in the area, including the ARCs, Siddharth, Gretkov, and robogirl. The subverted ItX equipment, HITMarks and such. Anything else that might be in the area that we don't know about yet.

If we're not going to drop Giant Robot on the ARCs, and I don't think we should, we need something that can take those down.

We need information - like, "where are the ARCs and what else has Panopticon brought into the area?"

We need something to shut down the subverted HITMarks &c, and keeping them intact for later recovery would be a nice bonus.

I'm really attracted to the [ ] Killswitch System - it's probably the fastest and cleanest way to shut down most subverted Technocratic equipment, and possibly the subverted agents as well. It also frees up all the Technocratic firepower currently pinned by said subversion, which will certainly add up. I wouldn't expect it to do much to Panopticon's systems, though.

I also think the [ ] NWO Tactical Unit might be quite useful - as fragile as they are, they're numerous, which means they can spread out and find things for us, even if they can't engage - and tactical information would be really, really valuable at the moment. "Basic functionality equivalent to low-level Enlightened operatives" would include secure comms, right? Not worth considering if it doesn't - it'd be too easy for them to be picked off, in that case.

I'm not so happy with the strategic firepower options - what would we aim them at?

Also not too happy about getting help from the IBM group. They probably represent the most / most flexible firepower per Shockwave Code, but that's because getting caught using them could become very inconvenient.
 
So, how likely is it that Gretkov could pull his Matrix shtick on the War-Daemons? Because luring him down into the tunnels so they can murderize his face off safely out of sight of any inconvenient witnesses has a certain appeal...

Because that's really what's going on here. We're erring on the side of caution, especially given what we've figured out. Yes, we need to justify dropping the robot- but you guys might consider that we'll also have to justify not dropping the robot if it turns out we didn't drop it when we had vital information and thought 'nah, save it for a bigger threat', when we have the biggest possible threat.
Yeah, overestimating your enemy can be just as fatal as underestimating them.

Though, if we fail to deal with the problem because we didn't drop the GIANT ROBOT, us, personally, justifying that failure will probably not be an issue, because if I understand correctly, the VEs going to be turning Moscow into a glowing crater if we fail.

If we're not going to drop Giant Robot on the ARCs, and I don't think we should, we need something that can take those down.
We're not bringing in the Apocalypse Canceller to kill the ARCs. Them getting smushed is just a pleasant side effect of dropping 2500 tons of awesome from orbit right on top of them.
 
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Look, we obviously need to drop the dox bomb on them. Sure, it'll risk Jamelia's life, but can you really deny yourself the chance to watch Henrietta struggle with sunshine and kittens as her very body undergoes total existence failure? Also, it'll forcibly disable Siddarth's brain chip, giving him one last chance to do the right thing. It's a two for one deal that risks nobody who isn't prepared to suffer the consequences.
 
Look, we obviously need to drop the dox bomb on them. Sure, it'll risk Jamelia's life, but can you really deny yourself the chance to watch Henrietta struggle with sunshine and kittens as her very body undergoes total existence failure? Also, it'll forcibly disable Siddarth's brain chip, giving him one last chance to do the right thing. It's a two for one deal that risks nobody who isn't prepared to suffer the consequences.

Paradox realms are puzzles, though, and very rarely is deliberately invoking Paradox a good idea. Because it's smart, it wants to teach you a lesson, and it's very, very malicious. Not to say this is the worst choice, or even automatically a bad choice, but do remember that a Dox Realm is going to be actively designed to screw everyone in it.
 
Look, we obviously need to drop the dox bomb on them. Sure, it'll risk Jamelia's life, but can you really deny yourself the chance to watch Henrietta struggle with sunshine and kittens as her very body undergoes total existence failure?
Yes. Yes I can. Because if we do that then Henriette can't do this.
 
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[ ] RAIN (Rocket Assisted Impactor Network) Satellite Weapons System
This seems like it'd be a good choice for taking out those Panopticon APCs. Also, Rods from God.
 
Phase 2 Shockwave Codes

Progenitors:

[ ] TEMPO Cognitive Accelerant (may choose twice)

I think "Feedback can cause significant brain damage" is a good reason to not use this

[ ] Damage Control BLACKWATCH Unit

The only downside seems to be "May not cooperate with RDs," which isn't that bad.

Iteration X:

[ ] RAIN (Rocket Assisted Impactor Network) Satellite Weapons System

Can you say collateral damage? How about no.

[ ] Killswitch System

This seems quite powerful, but what would it actually manage to shut down? If it could take out the avatar of control, that would make it worth it, but I kind of doubt that.

IBM:
[ ] Daemon Deployment

I would kind of like to avoid using "Irreplaceable" assets as much as possible.

[ ] Militia Unit

Same as above.

New World Order:

[ ] WIGWAM Experimental Anti-RD Strategic Weapon

Am I correct in thinking this would drop everything we care about into "Paradox Realm" Subdimensions? How big a deal is that?

[ ] "Roland" Advanced IFVs

Useful, but is it our best choice?

[x] Series P Unit

Very useful, and I don't see a downside.

[ ] NWO Tactical Unit

Given that these are "Extremely vulnerable to hostile Reality Deviants and rogue Enlightened Operatives" we'd need to be careful with them, but they are still one of the better way to help everyone.

As I see it we probably want one code to support everyone and one to support ourselves. For the first objective I think either the Killswitch System, the Damage Control BLACKWATCH Unit, or NWO Tactical Unit would work best. For the latter objective, I'd suggest the Series P Unit, but Daemon Deployment might work too. We should probably stunt the Series P Unit to have at least one dimension science user.
 
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