Antoinette seems to me likely to bring nothing to the table Henriette doesn't already, and we do not have infinite spots to keep bringing in characters. Rehabilitation and release to strengthen IterationX's more moderate elements seems to me to be a better use of her.
 
Antoinette seems to me likely to bring nothing to the table Henriette doesn't already, and we do not have infinite spots to keep bringing in characters. Rehabilitation and release to strengthen IterationX's more moderate elements seems to me to be a better use of her.
She actually has extremely interesting spheres, and with her suit can be a front line character as well as support character.
Since we want to have at least two full teams, one acting onscreen, one offscreen, the other team will need such a character, especially with hacking abilities.
 
Donald's Decision
[x] Spare (+Resources)
[x] Hate yourself for it. Try to make excuses to yourself, and realize they are empty.
[x] And drink a lot to forget what you did
[x] And have Rose assure you it was the right decision​
[x] Which makes it even worse.​
[x] But you've got an idea of what's out there, in Space, the Umbra, whatever the fuck you want to call it.​
[x] It's not an excuse. It's not justification. It's murder. But Amalgam 451 cannot afford further failure.​
[x] Another round of self-hate. Make the world a better place, one hollowed-out friend at a time. What a fucking joke.​

The Actual Vacation
Choose two or three things to happen and/or to write-in about.
[x] Henriette confronting Rose about her nature as a horrible sadistic sexmurder monster
[x] And making Rose cry
[x] And if not exactly accepting because what the fuck, Progenitors...​
[x] At least​
[x] Henriette/Antoinette working up the courage to talk to Kessler about the Bad Old Days of Iteration X
[ ] Maybe they weren't so bad back then...
[ ] All the shiny toys in the Union aren't worth losing your soul.
[x] Was that the Pogrom?! What. Just... what.​
[x] There are enemies that need killing, right? That's what Iterators are for, after all.​
[x] But was it really like that? No mercy, no regret, just Death To Deviants?​


And maybe something else.
 
HAH! The Progenitor option is I50-B31 breaking into the lab.

She actually has extremely interesting spheres, and with her suit can be a front line character as well as support character.
Since we want to have at least two full teams, one acting onscreen, one offscreen, the other team will need such a character, especially with hacking abilities.

The entire reason we didn't take the Major was because we will be getting Elsa at some point to fill her role. Elsa, the ex-cyberpunk VA-turned-VE.

Antionnete is more valuble in a lab developing shit than on the frontlines, plus she now has street cred which was her main obstacle in the past.
 
She actually has extremely interesting spheres, and with her suit can be a front line character as well as support character.
Since we want to have at least two full teams, one acting onscreen, one offscreen, the other team will need such a character, especially with hacking abilities.

So basically you want her because she's exactly like Henriette. We're not at the point where assembling a second team is feasible, doing so should be done in a systematic rather than piecemeal fashion, and it'd be better to get people who work in different ways filling the same role on B Team so they offer some truly distinct capabilities where it might actually be a better idea to use them instead of their counterpart on reasoning other than "X can't be two places at once." Some balance in the team so it isn't all IterationX and Progenitors would also be good for the line of politics we're trying to spin, as well.

And we've not really made the best use of existing secondary characters, like the interns. I am really concerned we're going to start losing focus and characterization is going to suffer, but at least if new hires all have very distinct natures and handles for writers to work with it should be easier to give newer characters their due without ignoring the older ones.
 
Antionnete is more valuble in a lab developing shit than on the frontlines, plus she now has street cred which was her main obstacle in the past.

In addition to finally getting some combat cred, Antoinette has also experienced The Belltower Method for Handling Pesky Reality Deviants (2nd hand, because Jamelia is off working, but close enough) which might also help temper the extremes of whoever she ends up working for. After the vacation portion is finally over, I think it'd be OK to release her back into the wild so that she can help spread Belltoweritis coax ItX into a less-militarized mindset.
 
Donald's Decision

Abstaining from this vote.

The Actual Vacation
Choose two or three things to happen and/or to write-in about.

[X] Henriette confronting Rose about her nature as a horrible sadistic sexmurder monster
->[X] And accepting her as she is

[X] Henriette/Antoinette working up the courage to talk to Kessler about the Bad Old Days of Iteration X
->[X] All the shiny toys in the Union aren't worth losing your soul.

[X] Dealing with Little Miss Fanfic
->[X] Poor Hannah, dragged onto a vacation with a bunch of minders, even if they are very good-looking combat constructs
->[X] Maybe she should consider a career in science fiction?

The Next Step
And then finally, the second part of this Arc's entertaining happenings requires a vote. They will be part of the next tribunal update.

Abstaining for now.
 
Are we really taking the terrorist girl on a vacation? Why?
What does that look like to the rest of technocracy?
Are we trying to work during a holiday again?
 
Are we really taking the terrorist girl on a vacation? Why?
What does that look like to the rest of technocracy?
Are we trying to work during a holiday again?

It looks like helping the conditioning take root by showing her that the Rogue Council lied about the merciless brainwashing Technocracy. Why they just want her to understand how much of a mistake she's made and how easy it would be to correct it. It's not the end of her life-she just has to make the right decision.
 
[ ] Syndicate: A Titan's Fall
There are a lot of ambitious people who want the top spot in the Syndicate. One of them, ex-Enforcer and President of Operations-Europe Catherine DeVries, thinks that the Syndicate should focus its wealth and investment significantly more on assisting with the Void Engineer's war in space as well as every other Convention's funding woes. She has an impeccable sense of personal honor and professional courtesy, is heavily expansionistic as to the Syndicate's role in daily life and the Union's interconnectivity in general, is less anti-NWO than much of the Syndicate's staff, and seeks greater control over world financial systems to ensure stability. She wants you to go to Russia again and find her evidence and support for driving Brandenberg out. She suspects he's profited greatly from the damage to Russia and has then proceeded to cover up how much. If you can find her enough evidence to force him into a Tribunal-why, you'd have someone very grateful to you in a command position who's just told Disbursements to increase funding.

[ ] Syndicate: Quid Pro Quo
There are a lot of ambitious people who want the top spot in the Syndicate. The man who currently sits in that seat, though, doesn't want to give it up. William Brandenberg knows about DeVries and her lust for power. She'll fund Iteration X and the Progenitors more heavily to act as enforcement, ensuring that their more fanatical and militant wings gain more and more power. She questions the utility of Project J even as it increases Traditions-Technocracy goodwill. He regrets his decisions about Russia but they were justified. The rebellious elements of the Russian Technocracy needed some punishment for acting as a rogue third faction for decades. It may have gone a little overboard-but he didn't intend for things to get that bad, no. The Syndicate doesn't need to militarize-it doesn't even need to have a more rigid and accountable hierarchy. It just needs people to follow their own moral compass. He wants you to either convince DeVries that she's wrong about her hands-on approach, or if all else fails, remove her from a position where she might be able to benefit from his overthrow. If you did that... well, he has a lot of personal resources he can throw your way. Ones which are a lot less accountable.

So we can either side with someone who will ensure - indirectly - that the militant factions of the Union gain more power, standing and influence, which will play hell on the peace the Union so desperately needs to recover from '99...

Or we can side with someone who has literal responsibility for every negative aspect of modern consumer capitalism (The Syndicate uses a Dollar sign as its convention Symbol, for fuck's sake), but who will keep the militants in check.

@MJ12 Commando I think I hate you :(
 
Huh.
Kessler seems to be out of his Quiet.
And I think he's hinting that Donald should execute the two Rogue Council agents rather than leave them to be reprocessed.
Which makes two members of our Amalgalm who are inclined that way.
Yes. It is not a coincidence these are the two member with strongest ties to the traditions.
It is an very understandable sentiment.

The P-program is a horrible thing to do to a person.
Is it really worse than death? Or is our preference of death a preference of familiar anticipated change over something unfamiliar and strange?
Do we value humanity so much we would rather die than become something else? Does a trans-human life really have a negative value? Will our opinion change when it is NULL putting us in the same position?

I am inclined to go for conversion and talking with Rose about it.
This may have interpersonal consequences in the future. Doing utility calculations is a better tool for morality than relying on unoptimized whims of intuition, but it is not a human response. Not well suited for most humans. The RD:s would not be the only ones giving up a piece of humanity.
I think we know what Jamelia would say, but other people may very well have different opinions.
 
The entire reason we didn't take the Major was because we will be getting Elsa at some point to fill her role. Elsa, the ex-cyberpunk VA-turned-VE.

Antionnete is more valuble in a lab developing shit than on the frontlines, plus she now has street cred which was her main obstacle in the past.

Yes, Elsa is the alternative for Major, not Antoinette.
Major/Elsa is there to take a role similar to Jamelia on the second team.

Antoinette fills an entirely different role.


So basically you want her because she's exactly like Henriette.

No, but I do want her because she is similar enough to take a similar role on another team, while being different enough to offer unique advantages. Like her nano science and fabrication, among others.

We're not at the point where assembling a second team is feasible.
Disagree.
We have already a half of a team there.
Rose and Donald being on vacation while others fought was the single most named complaint after the Moscow arc. They only were not able to do anything _because_ we do not have enough people for second team.
So we need to have a possibility to deploy the second team as soon as possible to not be in such a situation anymore.

doing so should be done in a systematic rather than piecemeal fashion, and it'd be better to get people who work in different ways filling the same role on B Team so they offer some truly distinct capabilities where it might actually be a better idea to use them instead of their counterpart on reasoning other than "X can't be two places at once."

This is exactly what we are doing.
We won't be able to employ four or six people we want at once.
We are looking and finding people who are both unique and fitting for the amalgam.
If you think that Henriette and Antoinette are too similar, than it is your opinion, one I disagree with.

Some balance in the team so it isn't all IterationX and Progenitors would also be good for the line of politics we're trying to spin, as well.

Elsa is not. Hannah is not. Baptysme, who I still hope we get, is not. Major would have been an Iterator as well.
But we probably won't be able to get someone not from Iteration with a similar skill set, a skill set we need, and surely not on a short notice.
Besides per Word of God at the end the amalgam will have about ten primary characters. And yes, I want another Syndic, NWO or VE character.

And we've not really made the best use of existing secondary characters, like the interns.

While interns are nice and useful, they are light support. They are not meant to be in spotlight. And they would need a ton of XP to come even near characters like Baptysme, Major, Antoinette and co. They are not feasible for the second team which should solve comparable problems.

I am really concerned we're going to start losing focus and characterization is going to suffer, but at least if new hires all have very distinct natures and handles for writers to work with it should be easier to give newer characters their due without ignoring the older ones.

This is another point to include characters like Antoinette, Baptysme, Elsa.
We know them already. We know how they tick. We know how they are. It will be easier both for the authors and readers to write about them, because so much is written already.
 
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Huh.
Kessler seems to be out of his Quiet.
And I think he's hinting that Donald should execute the two Rogue Council agents rather than leave them to be reprocessed.
Which makes two members of our Amalgalm who are inclined that way.
Two? Jamelia's main hangup, that's been shown many, many times is explicitely the reprocessing of agents. I can't think of /anything/ else in the whole quest that has made her shiver, and she has shivered like half a dozen times thinking about the P-series.

Guess what is one of Serafina's theme in her Seeking? you guessed it, reprocessing and fears of it, as well as her guilt and her determination not to do that to Rose.

Guess what was a constant theme between Rose and Thorn? you guessed it, Rose being 'formatted'.

Oh, and Henriette, whose first character arc was "getting better from a botched reprocessing".

Here, we just have a classic example of Donald not realizing he is, in fact, sharing a point of view that everyone else in the construct has.
 
So we can either side with someone who will ensure - indirectly - that the militant factions of the Union gain more power, standing and influence, which will play hell on the peace the Union so desperately needs to recover from '99...

Or we can side with someone who has literal responsibility for every negative aspect of modern consumer capitalism (The Syndicate uses a Dollar sign as its convention Symbol, for fuck's sake), but who will keep the militants in check.

@MJ12 Commando I think I hate you :(
I see it as a choice between one that brings unity to Technocracy but increased tension with Traditions or one that decreases unity but brings better relations with Traditions.
Of course not making that choice fractures Technocracy even worse.
 
Thinking some more on the Syndicate situation, the more we need to deal with them.

The current, modern-day, Post-WW2 syndicate is literally what drives the economy of the Union. What, in a way, has driven the world economy until '99.

They do not fit in with the other conventions. More than every other convention, they have tied themselves to the status quo of post-second-world-war Earth, to the point where their convention sign - and theirs alone - is not an abstract/abstract fractal, but a sign of temporal power.

In other words, their Convention Symbol - the icon that represents them to the world - is the bloody US dollar. Think about this for a moment. It might seem strange for a reader from the US, where it is the sign for currency - but there is an universal sign that means "currency" that the Syndicate could have used, that could have divorced themselves from the perils of nationalism (that Brandenberg is more than guilty of).

¤ (As ES described it, "a bit like a sea mine")

The bloody thing could even be rendered in the fractals that the rest of the union is so fond of. And it could be - would be - truly universal.

The Union stands for - should stand for - all of humanity against the things that go bump in the night, against the unknown dark. That its economic motor doesn't is perilous. The future of the Union's recruitment pool doesn't lie in the US, either. It reflects world population, and that sure as hell doesn't point towards areas that are or will be overly enamored with the $ sign soonish.

(after all, world-wide events and the state of the Union in general mirror IRL Earth happenings to some extent.)
 
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Two? Jamelia's main hangup, that's been shown many, many times is explicitely the reprocessing of agents. I can't think of /anything/ else in the whole quest that has made her shiver, and she has shivered like half a dozen times thinking about the P-series
It is a horrible thing to do. Of course everyone is against it. Everyone is against death also. It doesn't keep them from killing when necessary.
It hits close to home with Jamelia because of INVISIBLE BEAR.
Guess what is one of Serafina's theme in her Seeking? you guessed it, reprocessing and fears of it, as well as her guilt and her determination not to do that to Rose.
But she did do it to Rose when it was necessary. In as limited form as possible admittedly.
Guess what was a constant theme between Rose and Thorn? you guessed it, Rose being 'formatted'.
More Rose used as spare parts actually.
Oh, and Henriette, whose first character arc was "getting better from a botched reprocessing".
In this case it was done at least partially to stop a psychotic break.
Here, we just have a classic example of Donald not realizing he is, in fact, sharing a point of view that everyone else in the construct has.
That it is an awful thing to do, certainly.
That it should not be done at all? Not everyone.
 
Will the bits of The Next Step which we don't vote for happen anyway? Like, will the Syndicate political shit happen without us even if we decide to expose ourselves to the moemetic hazard again?

I kind of want to use the meeting to convince the General that the noetic remnants of Control have shown themselves to be unqualified to take care of a pet gerbil, much less the glorious world their human selves built before going full retard. However, it's almost certainly a trap, and he's shown himself to be able to punch through Jamelia's wards. It might be worth it, though.

I would much rather have Henriette take some classes in hypermanufacturing to gain Prime 3 and Matter 5 than give a portion of screentime to a nearly identical character who is inferior in every other regard.

I don't think the issue with the Series P is the becoming inhuman, so much as it is getting turned against things the original cared about. Does it leave the original in a state to see what their body and Spheres are doing, or does it kill them entirely?
 
I kind of want to use the meeting to convince the General that the noetic remnants of Control have shown themselves to be unqualified to take care of a pet gerbil, much less the glorious world their human selves built before going full retard. However, it's almost certainly a trap, and he's shown himself to be able to punch through Jamelia's wards. It might be worth it, though.

Even were Jamelia to succeed then General suicides, again, is resurrected, again, his mind scrubbed, again. Nothing won.

While if it is a trap, which is most probable, we can lose everything.

In my opinion cost/benefit of this action just does not cut it.
 
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I don't think the issue with the Series P is the becoming inhuman, so much as it is getting turned against things the original cared about. Does it leave the original in a state to see what their body and Spheres are doing, or does it kill them entirely?
I'd guess it kills at least the parts that don't want to help Technocracy. We tend to optimize for efficiency when we do things. Suffering is not efficient.

I think we have established to our satisfaction that Rogue Coucil views are not things we need to protect.
 
Even were Jamelia go succeed than General suicides, again, is resurrected, again, his mind scrubbed, again. Nothing won.

While if it is a trap, which is most probable, we can lose everything.

In my opinion cost/benefit of this action just does not cut it.
We could gain a lot, potentially. He's not a fanatic and can be reasoned with.
Suicides actually show he has his humanity at least partially in tact. We need to know what makes him do it and then give him a better way.
Old man even seemed to hint that he could be turned.
 
Even were Jamelia go succeed than General suicides, again, is resurrected, again, his mind scrubbed, again. Nothing won.

While if it is a trap, which is most probable, we can lose everything.

In my opinion cost/benefit of this action just does not cut it.
I think Jamelia might be able to pull off getting the General to defect from Threat Null to the Technocracy without suiciding, actually. What did the QM say his issue was again?

I'd guess it kills at least the parts that don't want to help Technocracy. We tend to optimize for efficiency when we do things. Suffering is not efficient.

I think we have established to our satisfaction that Rogue Coucil views are not things we need to protect.
Alright, so the main issue is that it'll fuck Donald up mentally to let his ex get processed. Worth some thought.
 
We could gain a lot, potentially. He's not a fanatic and can be reasoned with.
Suicides actually show he has his humanity at least partially in tact. We need to know what makes him do it and then give him a better way.
Old man even seemed to hint that he could be turned.

I very much doubt he is this free.
While it may be possible... Theoretically...
I really do not think it probable enough to risk a probable Bad End.
 
I think Jamelia might be able to pull off getting the General to defect from Threat Null to the Technocracy without suiciding, actually.
If Isobel is bait for the players of this quest, inviting a chance to turn her in order to turn Jamelia, the General is even more so.

This is not something we should be doing on impulse, because "it might work out."

The issue with not taking that option is that refusing to meet with The General means Jamelia is sending signals of her own, that we might not like the results of - but I don't think that's nearly as big a problem, at least in the short run, as meeting with the General without a clue as to what we're doing or why we're doing it.
 
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Thinking some more on the Syndicate situation, the more we need to deal with them.

The current, modern-day, Post-WW2 syndicate is literally what drives the economy of the Union. What, in a way, has driven the world economy until '99.

They do not fit in with the other conventions. More than literally every other convention, they have tied themselves to the status quo of post-second-world-war Earth, to the point where their convention sign - and theirs alone - is not an abstract/abstract fractal, but a sign of temporal power.

In other words, their Convention Symbol - the icon that represents them to the world - is the bloody US dollar. Think about this for a moment. It might seem strange for a reader from the US, where it is the sign for currency - but there is an universal sign that means "currency" that the Syndicate could have used, that could have divorced themselves from the perils of nationalism (that Brandenberg is more than guilty of).

¤ (As ES described it, "a bit like a sea mine")

The bloody thing could even be rendered in the fractals that the rest of the union is so fond of. And it could be - would be - truly universal.

The Union stands for - should stand for - all of humanity against the things that go bump in the night, against the unknown dark. That its economic motor doesn't is perilous. The future of the Union's recruitment pool doesn't lie in the US, either. It reflects world population, and that sure as hell doesn't point towards areas that are or will be overly enamored with the $ sign soonish.

(after all, world-wide events and the state of the Union in general mirror IRL Earth happenings to some extent.)
Symbols have power but maybe not this much power.
I use euros myself but the symbol I think about when I think about money is the American one. I do not even associate it with any country normally.

I think the dollar symbol is better than a fractal. It is something that has a meaning to common people. Don't we want a more humanistic Technocracy? More approachable one? A fractal represent the old way of doing things, setting ourselves above the common citizens that cannot even understand our symbols.

I doubt Syndicate fails to use cheap overseas labour or that they don't have offices in Japan.
They are closely tied with the status quo. I think it is a good thing.
It means they are closely tied to earth, to reality. To how it works and to the masses of sleepers.
In a way the other conventions aren't.
We exist to protect the people of earth, yet we hold ourselves separate from them.
I want to make other conventions more like Syndicate, not to make Syndicate more like the others.
 
Donald's Decision
[X] Execute (+Feeling Moderately Less Awful)

I don't like reprocessing, and Arkeus pointed out that the rest of the Amalgam also have similar/related hangups and issues with things that mess around with who-you-are or with free will.
The Actual Vacation
Choose two or three things to happen and/or to write-in about.
[ ] Actually formally recruiting another princess for the Belltower Home of Broken Girls
[ ] Serafina warming up to Donald
[ ] Probably a little too much given how she's in the prime time to make bad decisions again
[ ] We will never speak about this again
[ ] Okay this is going to make things a little awkward​
[ ] At least giving him a chance with her daughter​
[ ] Henriette confronting Rose about her nature as a horrible sadistic sexmurder monster
[ ] And making Rose cry
[ ] And accepting her as she is​
[ ] Henriette/Antoinette working up the courage to talk to Kessler about the Bad Old Days of Iteration X
[ ] Maybe they weren't so bad back then...
[ ] All the shiny toys in the Union aren't worth losing your soul.​
[ ] Dealing with Little Miss Fanfic
[ ] Poor Hannah, dragged onto a vacation with a bunch of minders, even if they are very good-looking combat constructs
[ ] Maybe she should consider a career in science fiction?​
[ ] Write-in
Not sure yet.
The Next Step
And then finally, the second part of this Arc's entertaining happenings requires a vote. They will be part of the next tribunal update.
[ ] Progenitors: The Heist
[ ] Panopticon: Parlay
[ ] Syndicate: A Titan's Fall
[ ] Syndicate: Quid Pro Quo
Hm. Not decided yet.

But if it comes to one of the Syndicate options though, then I think I prefer "A Titan's Fall". Greater Union inter-connectivity is probably the most precious thing in that list; I think that a lack of unity among the Union would kill us more surely than an increase in tension with the Traditions. Getting our own shit in order is just more important.

That this would get the Void Engineers more support against Threat Null, is also very important.

And the fact that this would depose Mister "everything wrong with modern consumer capitalism" is just yet another benefit.

And on the other side, the write-up for Quid Pro Quo does not convince me very much of Brandenburg's good intentions, it sounds more like ass-covering to me. He got rich off of Russian Technocrat woes and saying people should "follow their own moral compass" just... just, really raises my eyebrows. Really? It sounds a lot like he just wants to make more money and not be bothered by things.

The Russian situation got bad not only because they were gutted by resources, but also because they were then ignored and hushed up for 20 to 25 years; help was denied, the ability to recover or modernize and change and move on was denied, etc. They lost resources and then were brushed over for decades; even if the initial resource-grab could be justified, what the hell was up with outright shitting on them for years and years?
 
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