Okay, the Moscow Plan is... well, honestly, a bad plan. Not least because Jamelia doesn't actually have the IC information for a lot of things, because only Serafina knows about the Mari Humanity Bomb (which won't work on I-50-B31, because the Transhumans know all about being human. They've been lots of humans. All of whom have "realised" that it's much more awesome to be a Transhuman as soon as they join the hivemind), and Jamelia at the moment has no idea that the IBM even survived Moscow (and Donald and Rose have no idea that they're a thing).

And, of course, there's the "she's a spirit" thing. Spirits are much more... immutable in their nature against most things (try persuading a fire spirit not to burn things), much more bound to it than a human being is. And Iteration X are terrible at spirits.

On the other hand, what can change the Nature of a man? Well, we do have a magic bracelet which does that right now. Well, it changes their Virtue and Vice, but those replace Nature in MJage.

[X] Write-in: Play for time by getting her off balance, allowing Donald to get closer, and talk her into taking out the Subjugation Corp saucer so we don't have that trying to blow us all up. Bring up all those objections we have because we can clearly see she isn't playing to the same rulebook as the rest of Threat Null and isn't working for the same thing - raise how they're not working to the same goals. But above all, give her a "gift" of Senex's bracelet, to push her off balance further by rewriting her Virtue and Vice.
-> [X] "We're not out of hot water yet, I'm afraid. There's still that Void Engineer saucer, and I'm not willing to listen to you when there's that show of force showing bad faith. I think you can understand why I don't trust good faith, when your agents were waiting to murder me here - and there was a vicious, superior-murdering sociopath who tried to kill me in Moscow - and Henrietta Langley was casually shooting starship grade capital weapons in an urban area. I do realise I'd be asking you to put yourself at risk (Maaaaaaartyr), but I can't stop them on my own and if I have to try I'll probably die (Caaaaaaregiver)."
--> [X] If they kill her (very unlikely) or she 'doxes out of reality (more likely) she's out of our hair.
--> [X] If she's very badly injured from spirit-killing weapons when she gets back, we might have a chance against her. And even if we don't try that, no flying saucer shooting at us as we try to escape.
--> [X] If she's annoyingly okay from having killed a dozen space marines and everyone inside a flying saucer, she'll at least might have spent primal energy. And more importantly we won't have a flying saucer shooting at us when we drive away or using abduction rays on Jamelia or something. That's a really big deal.
---> [X] GOTO [X] (2.0x) Find an excuse to have her disabled. Probably involving running her over. With a tank. Repeatedly. And then shooting her to make sure.
----> [X] We May Need To Work Out How To Do This (and whether Team Misfit can cludge together a super-teamwork ritual to bind transfer her psyche using standard Technocracy personality dump procedures into the backup emergency personality storage cache of Jamelia Bot in the field).

...

When she puts on the bracelet, her Virtue will change to Martyr (She regains WP when she sacrifices from herself to advance her chosen cause) and her Vice to Caregiver (She needs to spend WP to not help people who seem like they're in need.). These are V/Vs much more amenable to our interests, because it means she isn't having to spend willpower to disobey orders. We do not like her orders. Apart from the ones Donald gives her, but she doesn't obey them because of her Vice, she obeys them because of maaaaagic.

And there might be other unpredictable effects, because Jamelia is human and thus is not fundamentally a slave to her nature. She has mental flexibility a spirit (even a spirit with an Avatar stapled to it, like I-50) doesn't have. It wouldn't surprise me if a spirit literally cannot spend willpower to resist their Vice. Which means if I-50 has Caregiver instead of Follower... well, she can disobey orders. And will, to help people who are in need. The effects might even be more radical.

... admittedly, her definition of "helping" may be not what we want, but that's a bridge we'll probably have to cross when we come to it.

And meanwhile, her Conditioning will stop her from using the bracelet's powers, because it's not in the Union's paradigm to use a magical bracelet tied up in strands of fate. And I-50 is a Progenitor, rather than a tricksy NWO or Syndicate type who can double-think around it with "Well, it's clearly just a tool for manifesting psychic powers the person already has" or "I paid for it, so I'll use it".

(Syndics. So annoying.)
 
Hahahaha. Yessss. I support this idea.

[X] Bracelet plan.
 
EarthScorpion's plan sounds more feasible, if not as much a high-risk/high-return option than trying to get I-50-B31 to Moscow. I'm sold.

Edit: Working on a Donald suffering snippet, for use after we get Jamelia out of trouble.
 
While Thorn is an interesting aspect of Rose, she really isn't a very distinct character- she's a one dimensional bundle of all Rose's doubts and insecurities. Buying off Demented Eidolon, particularly in the case of going through the old order of reason documents and all that stuff likely would mean that Rose would find a way to come to terms with these insecurities, rather than distancing herself from them entirely. Coming to accept not just the insecurities, but the other things Rose is afraid of that Thorn represents (loss of control, threat of death, that sort of thing) is an essential step to her developing as a character and advancing through the ranks of enlightened science.

From a writer's perspective I think that this presents the opportunity to do a seeking write-in which ultimately has Rose accept Thorn as a part of her, which eliminates the need for Thorn to exist at all as a separate manifestation. That means some shift in Rose's character, but also the chance to do some very moving interactions between the two of them before they cease being separate people.
Maybe, but the motivation is questionable. It's not like Rose has had giant bouts of competence to give her confidence, especially not to offset that fresh set of doubts that Isobel represents.

Like, okay, so she can embrace the only part of her that won't be hopelessly outdated, being little sister to EXEMPLAR-2s, and using that successfully long-distance to Moscow, but that's pretty shaky.
 
Well. I'm certainly not going to be able to come up with better than that, not knowing nearly enough about spirits in the WoD.

[x] Give I-50-B31 Senex's bracelet and sic her on the Subjugation Corps saucer.
 
----> [] We May Need To Work Out How To Do This (and whether Team Misfit can cludge together a super-teamwork ritual to bind transfer her psyche using standard Technocracy personality dump procedures into the backup emergency personality storage cache of Jamelia Bot in the field).
If I'm not horribly misreading things, this is the "Make Her A Fetish" plan.

And there's no way I'll support bringing the VEs in on this. Not when our possession of Isobel says we know way too much.
 
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... Maybe I'm thinking along terminally stupid lines here, but it might be nice if we got in with the VE conspiracy before the tribunal that might remove all our potential value to it. And - you know who might be equipped to manage, contain, and extract valuable intel from a Threat Null agent? Maybe the people who're fighting Threat Null are a good bet?
 
Nope. They'd just have us all killed, because the alternative is people who know the real deal about Threat Null, but aren't under any sort of oath (and these are the guys who use traditionalist style death oaths to ensure compliance) being drawn before a full tribunal. If there's any chance that the information comes out, especially when the VE's don't feel that the union is ready for it, they'll act to prevent that from happening.

We're that chance, and no, the union is not even approaching what could be called ready.
 
If I'm not horribly misreading things, this is the "Make Her A Fetish" plan.
Indeed. ...and Donald has already pretty much figured out how to do that, given a bit of mindtape. ...and the doshmobile should be well-stocked enough that Henriette can "find" mindtape in it somewhere (even by the "telling you where to look" technique), if there wasn't any there to begin with. We do need to get her into the doshmobile and get her to sit still long enough to pull it off, but it should be doable.
 
Nope. They'd just have us all killed, because the alternative is people who know the real deal about Threat Null, but aren't under any sort of oath (and these are the guys who use traditionalist style death oaths to ensure compliance) being drawn before a full tribunal. If there's any chance that the information comes out, especially when the VE's don't feel that the union is ready for it, they'll act to prevent that from happening.

We're that chance, and no, the union is not even approaching what could be called ready.
The problem with taking their oath being? We're at dire risk of being marked for death by people with the exact same objectives as us. Lack of cooperation will not do resistance to Threat Null any favors. Fratricide would be much, much worse. This seems painfully asinine.
 
The problem with taking their oath being? We're at dire risk of being marked for death by people with the exact same objectives as us. Lack of cooperation will not do resistance to Threat Null any favors. Fratricide would be much, much worse. This seems painfully asinine.

Part of the problem with taking their oath being the painfully asinine bit. The VEs are mishandling this the only way they know how. Going with any other strategy than the exact one they're using would mean breaking the aforementioned oath. Jamelia and the rest of the team are, bizarrely, much better at coming up with answers to some of this stuff, and going with their plan would cripple us.
 
Nope. They'd just have us all killed, because the alternative is people who know the real deal about Threat Null, but aren't under any sort of oath (and these are the guys who use traditionalist style death oaths to ensure compliance) being drawn before a full tribunal. If there's any chance that the information comes out, especially when the VE's don't feel that the union is ready for it, they'll act to prevent that from happening.

We're that chance, and no, the union is not even approaching what could be called ready.

Although after the Tribunal, one valid "mission vote" might well be "open up to the Void Engineers, get pulled into hunting for a secret Subjugation Corps base in the jungles of South America because Jamelia has experience at going into South American jungles with low tech gear hunting secret bases - and there's a strong suspicion that the Corps might be operating out of somewhere that HELMETSHRIKE took out, back in the late 70s".

Probably while the music from Predator plays. Or Ride of the Valkyries.

Rose: "My nose is peeling. I've run out of suncream."

Kessler: "Why couldn't we take a helicopter?"

Jamelia: "I've read your file. I'm never getting in a helicopter with you, ever."

Donald: "Gosh, it is nice being back in an air conditioned office in LA."

Serafina: "... I'm in the field camp and I'm being forced to interact with Mai Do. I hate you. And her. But mostly you."

Henriette: "You said it. There is moss in this drone's engine. How is there moss in the engine? They keep on needing repair. This... this is so backwards. How can anyone operate like this?"

Jamelia: "Sorry?" *lounging on a pile of dead space marines who've suffered fatal stab wounds, is currently dressed in greens and greys and has full face camo on* "Well, we've gone on for long enough. Anyone up for some snake?"

Serafina: "... I'll pass."

Rose: "I like snake!"

(Also, there might be werewolves.)

Henriette: "This is totally unrealistic! Wolves aren't native to South America!"

Werewolf: "Actually, that's not true. The maned wolf is a wolf."

Henriette: "No it isn't! That's a misnomer! It's actually a distinct branch of the canine family, being neither a wolf nor a fox, although it is more closely related to the wolves!"

Werewolf: "Well... neither are humans native to South America. My werewolf ancestors came over with the Spanish."

Henriette: "... oh. Fuck. Fucking Europeans."

Jamelia: "You're half of European descent."

Henriette: "Which means I can half blame them for everything. And Serafina is to blame for everything."

Jamelia: "Hmm. You make a persuasive point."

Yinzheng: "Excuse me, but you're half-Japanese. The Japanese count as Europeans from the POV of being to blame for everything!"
 
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Well I just had terrible idea that's nevertheless amusing to think about: get I-50-B31 to testify at the tribunal.

It would all end in fire, but I-50-B31's personality would make it hilarious nonetheless.
 
Well I just had terrible idea that's nevertheless amusing to think about: get I-50-B31 to testify at the tribunal.

It would all end in fire, but I-50-B31's personality would make it hilarious nonetheless.
This sounds like a job for Panopticon Abridged.

Also, my original plan is horrible given what people have said. My full support is now behind Plan EarthScorpion.
 
[X] Bracelet plan.

Of course, if Threat Null finds out what exactly that bracelet is, they might stop trying to subvert us and just start trying to kill us... but what the heck, better possibly dead later than definitely dead (or assimilated) now.
 
This sounds like a job for Panopticon Abridged.

Also, my original plan is horrible given what people have said. My full support is now behind Plan EarthScorpion.
As a note, I'm curious how Jamelia Quest is going. Assuming it didn't go down in fire and flames with Moscow. :D

More seriously, while the Bracelet plan is good... How exactly are we going to get Isobel to actually wear the thing? Instead of destroying it as Reality Deviance the moment it's handed off to her? Does the whole 'bound spirit' thing cover that?
 
Poor Izzy. That gorram Belltower stole our moederous machine! They have their own moederous machine, why do they need ours!

I-50-B31: 'Cause I'm 38 generations better than her?

Rose: growling
 
I suspect: there is a lot of gloating from Taw, who made the Isobel and who's reaction to binding was "All is going according to backup plan, Rogues left so much loopholes that Murderous Moe is as free as before"
 
FireSpider is spitting teeth at the way that his perfectly sensible "shoot her dead with an Agent killteam" plan just got thwarted by that, and blames the other players who keep on trying to convert her.
Yeah... and we're really not looking forward to the Tribunal on what happened in Moscow. Honestly, the QM for Jamelia Quest is kind of mean. Still, at least the long-term hearts and minds war against the VEs is going okay.
 
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