Whoever writes the Rose Seeking will probably be able to determine what Thorn turns into. Reconciliation might be possible, but there's been no narrative foreshadowing to build up to it, unfortunately. Maybe if we focus a little on her for the next update and write the Seeking before the Tribunal, we could pull it off?
Panopticon: A Game of Posthumans, Perniciousness, Paranoia, Politics, and Plasmaguns
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] (1.5x) Or you could take a quick trip back to Moscow. You know a few people who could probably dominate her and maintain control, and then you can spend lots of time getting her to open up to you and reveal her most intimate secrets...
Yesssss...
"of Threat Null, you perverts."
Damn it.
Serafina Write-In:
[X] Write-in: Deal with Donald and Rose's... romance issues. And/or end up on a 'date' with Donald because GODDAMNIT ROSE.
Ohhh.....I must do something with this. There is far too much lolz to be had in making Donald suffer here...
Rose Seeking? Maybe?
[X] Rose is potentially chancing an Enlightenement 5 here, especially if she can read more about the Order of Reason from Jamelia's stolen stash. This is also an opportunity for her to buy off Demented Eidolon if she so wishes and it is justified in the Seeking.
Or at least tone down Thorn into something that at least directs the hate and anger outward instead of at Rose's never-too-firm self-esteem.
Yesssss...
"of Threat Null, you perverts."
Damn it.
Serafina Write-In:
[X] Write-in: Deal with Donald and Rose's... romance issues. And/or end up on a 'date' with Donald because GODDAMNIT ROSE.
Ohhh.....I must do something with this. There is far too much lolz to be had in making Donald suffer here...
Rose Seeking? Maybe?
[X] Rose is potentially chancing an Enlightenement 5 here, especially if she can read more about the Order of Reason from Jamelia's stolen stash. This is also an opportunity for her to buy off Demented Eidolon if she so wishes and it is justified in the Seeking.
Or at least tone down Thorn into something that at least directs the hate and anger outward instead of at Rose's never-too-firm self-esteem.
The One True Path:
Triple Date: Jamelia, Serafina, and Rose.
All at once. Make Tradwiki cry.
It'd be difficult and dangerous, but I wonder if we can use the INVISIBLE BEAR incident in Moscow to bring the fact that the codes for Conditioning have been compromised by EDEs into official attention of the Technocracy, so that all of the codes will be updated. As in, make it so that none of Control's old codes work anymore. Of course, there'd be the issue of the update potentially being compromised due to the people installing it being potentially compromised ...
Drakeneisen
Rogue Scientist
Well, Rose knows Kung-Fu, so she will be super-useful in North Korea. Next chapter should be our moe-pires chance to shine.
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
And then PatternHax2U requests that the ensuing internet-anime-nosebleed/shipping war be moved to Donald_Sykes_(Syndicate)/Romantic_and_Sexual_Prospects
Might tempt more defections!
Dealing With I-50-B31:
[X] (1.5x) Or you could take a quick trip back to Moscow. You know a few people who could probably dominate her and maintain control, and then you can spend lots of time getting her to open up to you and reveal her most intimate secrets... of Threat Null, you perverts.
I like the idea we 'accidentally' make a team of former threat null evil opposites. Going on this plan, the next evil opposite we'll encounter, after Rose and Henriette, is probably of Donald.
Serafina Write-In:
[X] Write-in: Deal with Donald and Rose's... romance issues. And/or end up on a 'date' with Donald because GODDAMNIT ROSE.
Rose organizes a date between Serafina and Donald, and ends up on it because she doesn't quite understand how dates work or what they are.
Rose Seeking? Maybe?
[X] Rose is potentially chancing an Enlightenement 5 here, especially if she can read more about the Order of Reason from Jamelia's stolen stash. This is also an opportunity for her to buy off Demented Eidolon if she so wishes and it is justified in the Seeking.
This will probably need to be rather long, since we haven't been focusing on her very much lately. The above plan might give some chance for that. Further, I don't think completely getting rid of Thorn is a good idea.
[X] (1.5x) Or you could take a quick trip back to Moscow. You know a few people who could probably dominate her and maintain control, and then you can spend lots of time getting her to open up to you and reveal her most intimate secrets... of Threat Null, you perverts.
I like the idea we 'accidentally' make a team of former threat null evil opposites. Going on this plan, the next evil opposite we'll encounter, after Rose and Henriette, is probably of Donald.
Serafina Write-In:
[X] Write-in: Deal with Donald and Rose's... romance issues. And/or end up on a 'date' with Donald because GODDAMNIT ROSE.
Rose organizes a date between Serafina and Donald, and ends up on it because she doesn't quite understand how dates work or what they are.
Rose Seeking? Maybe?
[X] Rose is potentially chancing an Enlightenement 5 here, especially if she can read more about the Order of Reason from Jamelia's stolen stash. This is also an opportunity for her to buy off Demented Eidolon if she so wishes and it is justified in the Seeking.
This will probably need to be rather long, since we haven't been focusing on her very much lately. The above plan might give some chance for that. Further, I don't think completely getting rid of Thorn is a good idea.
Everything is absolutely fine and nothing has exploded that should stay unexploded.
All in all a pretty good run.
Of Course that can always change but that's a long term worry.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] (1.5x) Or you could take a quick trip back to Moscow. You know a few people who could probably dominate her and maintain control, and then you can spend lots of time getting her to open up to you and reveal her most intimate secrets... of Threat Null, you perverts.
It's likely going to add a bit more to explain away down the line, but adding an asset of that caliber to the good guys just sounds like a generally good plan - on top of the intel windfall. For that matter, she has contacts back in Threat Null, and it may take them a while to realize that she's been compromised. That could be *useful*.
It's likely going to add a bit more to explain away down the line, but adding an asset of that caliber to the good guys just sounds like a generally good plan - on top of the intel windfall. For that matter, she has contacts back in Threat Null, and it may take them a while to realize that she's been compromised. That could be *useful*.
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Kerrus
Fractal Insanity
While Thorn is an interesting aspect of Rose, she really isn't a very distinct character- she's a one dimensional bundle of all Rose's doubts and insecurities. Buying off Demented Eidolon, particularly in the case of going through the old order of reason documents and all that stuff likely would mean that Rose would find a way to come to terms with these insecurities, rather than distancing herself from them entirely. Coming to accept not just the insecurities, but the other things Rose is afraid of that Thorn represents (loss of control, threat of death, that sort of thing) is an essential step to her developing as a character and advancing through the ranks of enlightened science.
From a writer's perspective I think that this presents the opportunity to do a seeking write-in which ultimately has Rose accept Thorn as a part of her, which eliminates the need for Thorn to exist at all as a separate manifestation. That means some shift in Rose's character, but also the chance to do some very moving interactions between the two of them before they cease being separate people.
How exactly would we take "a quick trip" to Moscow? Or, for that matter, run her over with a tank?
Maybe I'm having some trouble picturing what's going on, but isn't Isobel in front of Jamelia's exit? Is the "To Moscow!" vote actually the "Convince her to go to Moscow? Somehow?" vote?
And the tank. What?
Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We have a teleporter, yes? A quick trip back to Moscow can be very quick indeed. Also, getting her under hard control is pretty easy. Hand Donald some mindtape (if nothing else, ask Henriette where to look for it in the doshmobile), and he has the wherewithal to fetishize her (Not like that. I mean, yes like that, but that's not what I meant.) Put the body in cold storage until you've reprogrammed the brain a bit, and it should work out fine.
Probably worthwhile for Jamelia to stunt a mind ward at the moment regardless. Having done that, however, getting I-50-B31 to do what Jamelia wants at a basic level is pretty easy. Donald has her leash, and she has big, obvious motivational buttons that Jamelia can identify.
Probably worthwhile for Jamelia to stunt a mind ward at the moment regardless. Having done that, however, getting I-50-B31 to do what Jamelia wants at a basic level is pretty easy. Donald has her leash, and she has big, obvious motivational buttons that Jamelia can identify.
Kerrus
Fractal Insanity
Rogue agents trying to kill me, activated emergency teleporter recall.
Correspondence 4 + IBM.
Well, I may also be illustrating the fact that trying to get rid of I-50-B31 is going to be rather difficult.
Just a little bit, yeah. Something tells me they won't be so keep on showing up on their doorstep with "Hey! Guess what! The Progenitors went space-evil too! Here's a space-evil Progenitor! We brought her with us!"
Not to mention that Donald and Rose are fully aware that she is legitimately a spirit/EDE, while Henrietta wasn't. And Iterators aren't good with spirits.
The problem, of course, lies in the execution. Pun most definitely intended.
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After the defense is up, we delay her conversation with lines like:
"We should go to a safer place then this."
"I'm not going to have a political conversation without my morning coffee."
"There was something I left in Moscow, you can come with me if you want."
Thinking things out...
Jamelia's primary defense against I-50-B31 at the moment is that Isobel isn't currently willing to go with the "retroactive consent" plan. (Her mission is to convince Jamelia to join up. She's apparently taking that literally, given she's currently sticking to social enhancement, and not mind control or force - i.e., actually convincing her.)
If Isobel was willing, Jamelia does not have the resources to win a physical fight, and I'm not sure how well she can defend against an overt mind control attempt. (Especially since she apparently doesn't have a mind ward up already. Can we have done that retroactively with Time 2? Anyway.) If we do want to get into a physical fight, we want to do it somewhere with a significant Sleeper population. Especially since Jamelia can run up walls without gaining Paradox.
The problem with trying to remove I-50-B31 by force is that, well, she might rethink the "retroactive consent" thing if she catches on to what we're doing. The problem with not removing her by force is that she might well get frustrated enough to do that anyway. (Simply refusing to listen to anything she says or trying to shut her up might be sufficiently frustrating. If whatever we're going to do isn't going to be done now, we're forced to give her the opportunity to talk.)
In the short term - since whatever plan we go with is going to require time and resources that aren't on-site, probably - we want to keep Isobel talking, rather than anything else she might do. This has the additional benefit of letting Jamelia pump her for information, and I'm quite sure Isobel knows some very interesting things. (Just, uh, let's not ask any questions that could be taken as asking to be inducted into the hivemind. That'd end poorly.) Some of that information might give leverage to convince Isobel to change missions, maybe, and if we can choose the right questions she might count answering them as part of turning Jamelia.
Trying to convince Isobel that Jamelia has already join the Technocracy proper - if we try to do this, specifically, we have to be very careful about it. Or Isobel might just go and produce a proper Control request for Jamelia's transfer. Again, that wouldn't end well.
Jamelia's primary defense against I-50-B31 at the moment is that Isobel isn't currently willing to go with the "retroactive consent" plan. (Her mission is to convince Jamelia to join up. She's apparently taking that literally, given she's currently sticking to social enhancement, and not mind control or force - i.e., actually convincing her.)
If Isobel was willing, Jamelia does not have the resources to win a physical fight, and I'm not sure how well she can defend against an overt mind control attempt. (Especially since she apparently doesn't have a mind ward up already. Can we have done that retroactively with Time 2? Anyway.) If we do want to get into a physical fight, we want to do it somewhere with a significant Sleeper population. Especially since Jamelia can run up walls without gaining Paradox.
The problem with trying to remove I-50-B31 by force is that, well, she might rethink the "retroactive consent" thing if she catches on to what we're doing. The problem with not removing her by force is that she might well get frustrated enough to do that anyway. (Simply refusing to listen to anything she says or trying to shut her up might be sufficiently frustrating. If whatever we're going to do isn't going to be done now, we're forced to give her the opportunity to talk.)
In the short term - since whatever plan we go with is going to require time and resources that aren't on-site, probably - we want to keep Isobel talking, rather than anything else she might do. This has the additional benefit of letting Jamelia pump her for information, and I'm quite sure Isobel knows some very interesting things. (Just, uh, let's not ask any questions that could be taken as asking to be inducted into the hivemind. That'd end poorly.) Some of that information might give leverage to convince Isobel to change missions, maybe, and if we can choose the right questions she might count answering them as part of turning Jamelia.
Trying to convince Isobel that Jamelia has already join the Technocracy proper - if we try to do this, specifically, we have to be very careful about it. Or Isobel might just go and produce a proper Control request for Jamelia's transfer. Again, that wouldn't end well.
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
Dealing with I-50-B31
[X] Write-in. Screw Moscow and screw the tank. Let's hand her over to the VEs.
Jamelia knows a group that would be all too happy to take the psychotic psuedo-Progenitor off of her hands with a minimum of fuss. All we have to do is say, "We captured this one during the attempted murder of Agent Belltower. You Dimensional Science experts should be the ones to interrogate/destroy/convert this confirmed EDE with massive enhancements. We don't have the resources to do any of those."
This accomplishesthree four objectives.
1.) Get rid of Isobel.
2.) Get a bit of trust built up with the VEs.
3.) Alert the VEs about what just happened with the Subjugation Corp and Isobel.
4.) If they let her talk about her mission for even half a minute, they will then know that our Construct isn't compromised by Threat Null, but we could use some help avoiding that fate.
[X] Write-in. Screw Moscow and screw the tank. Let's hand her over to the VEs.
Jamelia knows a group that would be all too happy to take the psychotic psuedo-Progenitor off of her hands with a minimum of fuss. All we have to do is say, "We captured this one during the attempted murder of Agent Belltower. You Dimensional Science experts should be the ones to interrogate/destroy/convert this confirmed EDE with massive enhancements. We don't have the resources to do any of those."
This accomplishes
1.) Get rid of Isobel.
2.) Get a bit of trust built up with the VEs.
3.) Alert the VEs about what just happened with the Subjugation Corp and Isobel.
4.) If they let her talk about her mission for even half a minute, they will then know that our Construct isn't compromised by Threat Null, but we could use some help avoiding that fate.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Bursting Eagerness Soul - sounds like a solid start. Probably even better with plan "Have Donald turn her into a fetish" tossed on the front, if we can manage to pull that off.