Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
I'd say that housing has to come before (or at least at the same time as) the courier expansion. There might be ways around it (automatic cleanup from transforming? public bathhouses?), but trying to get people into work when they don't yet have a place to live sounds like a really bad approach.

Actually, since we are the ones hiring them for our business, and since the business is riding around Tokyo on a bike and thus sweat is expected... not really a problem I think.

How much of the welcome cost is the cell phone? I know the welcome package was basically cell phone + bicycle + shield. Was something like $150 for the bike, $70 for the shield? So $30 for the cell phone?

As long as we're doing the teleporting with the hunters, we can live without the bike. Can't do without the shield+cell phone, though. Might be able to skimp, and only get the shield for the half that are in hunting/training, while the job hunters don't really need it. On the other hand, the job hunters will want the bikes.

If we get shields for half, bikes for the other half, and cell phones for all, that's $140 per girl, or $14k per 100.

I think it was $30 for the cellphones.

But why do they need shields when the DS is below -10?

So:
Month 35: Restaurant/Village work
Month 36: Serena moves into village, restaurant opens
Month 37: Kill beholder (hopefully)
Month 38: Tokyo expansion, courier expansion — need $250k (Or just get the full 1 mil?)
Month 39
Month 40: ~Sakura church? Need $750k
Month 41: Tokyo should be stable

So:
Month 35: Restaurant/Village work
Month 36: More Village work, restaurant opens
Month 37: Kill beholder (hopefully), Serena moves to village
Month 38: Tokyo expansion, courier expansion — need $250k (Or just get the full 1 mil?)
Month 39
Month 40: ~Sakura church? Need $750k
Month 41: Tokyo should be stable

Something like that seems reasonable.

Is there info on the Beholder's capabilities?
Or did I just skim through again?

Teleport, Anti-teleport (as in gibblets those that try), healing. Unknown additional abilities.
 
Problem is we are generally limited to jobs teenage girls can reasonably take.

Random Brainstorming:
Landscaping
-Relatively easy to do. Probably pretty niche, especially in urban areas but rural zones should be moderately lucrative though, every little bit counts.

Anndd uh, I got nothing. We've been so far limiting ourselves to service jobs, maybe we can rent a booth at a flea market and have girls make knickknacks or something to sell as supplementary income.
Yeah, we've tried occasional brainstorming, but very few useful ideas that we can actually do have come out of it.

I'd considered the possibility of magical charms, or magically enchanted items, but given that we can only get 24 hours out of the charms we've made if we keep them in a thermally insulated tank, that's rather pointless. Maybe if we advance our research some, given that Hiko's artifacts are clearly not nearly so limited.

Lawn care doesn't really apply in Japan, as most houses don't really have lawns. Landscaping... eh, dunno.

House remodeling is kinda beyond us. And for all their smarts, we don't really have anyone with solid programming skills, so no contract work there.

Office work is generally out, because of the age issue. We don't have much in the way of artistic talent (and clearly not writing talent).

We've done a little research on magic's effect on technology. If we try to apply healing magic to that, maybe we can get a little repair shop type thing going (particularly older, less-complicated stuff, that generally costs more to fix than the cost of buying something new).

Maybe send Akane to a cooking school to expand her education, and get her hired at a fancy restaurant? That would likely reduce the value of our own restaurant, though.

We really should see what Akane (and Chisato) can do with her cooking, though. We might be able to expand on what we already have.

But other than that... it's really hard to come up with valid ideas for their age brackets.

But why do they need shields when the DS is below -10?
What's the point of training if you're not going to train them to do it right? Even if not explicitly modeled, we do know that shield use doesn't fall under the magical girl instinctive combat reflexes, and needs to be practiced.
Actually, since we are the ones hiring them for our business, and since the business is riding around Tokyo on a bike and thus sweat is expected... not really a problem I think.
No, it's because of that that it's a problem.

Let's try this: You've been living hand-to-mouth for the last several months, scraping by and living in abandoned buildings or wherever you can escape attention, and pretty much only own the clothes on your back. Now your rescuers, the group you joined who promised to take you in, are giving you a job. But not a place to live. Money for food, but no kitchen.

If you end the day sweaty and stinky, that's not a problem. You'll just be doing it again tomorrow. Oh, but what about school? School was important, right? Have proper uniforms and everything, but.. no closet. And you smell like work. Well, there's public baths.

Well, they'll get to it next month. Business is more important.

Month 36: More Village work, restaurant opens
Depends on whether the work can be done on multiple houses in parallel, or only one house can be refitted per month. I'm assuming that most stuff can be done in parallel. @inverted_helix would have to make the call on that.
 
Why don't we simply sell Mami's apartment to fund our upcoming expansion? Depending on it's size and location, it should probably sell for something between 100k and 300k. That would be enough to keep us in the black for the first few months until we can increase our income to meet our new expenses.

Also, we should totally annex area 15 to keep our territory continuous. If we win in Tokyo, convincing them to join should be easy enough.
 
Why don't we simply sell Mami's apartment to fund our upcoming expansion? Depending on it's size and location, it should probably sell for something between 100k and 300k. That would be enough to keep us in the black for the first few months until we can increase our income to meet our new expenses.
Mami's apartment can be traded for $1200 per turn. It's not going to get us $100k+.

Also, we should totally annex area 15 to keep our territory continuous. If we win in Tokyo, convincing them to join should be easy enough.
Yeah, we need to talk to them. Also talk to the girl in area 3 (should do that this turn, really). And then some time with the Coalition.
 
I said sell, not rent. Or are you saying the GM won't allow us sell it?
I was thinking of it as more likely whatever was providing for Mami's material needs was some sort of long term Trust set up by her parents, which limits her flexibility in using it. At least that was my logic.

Anyways this discussion about Tokyo expansion is pretty interesting, but I'm not seeing what people decided on the front of the negotiation with Hiko, which is the more immediate question here. Do you want to go another negotiation round? Accept the offer?
 
Anyways this discussion about Tokyo expansion is pretty interesting, but I'm not seeing what people decided on the front of the negotiation with Hiko, which is the more immediate question here. Do you want to go another negotiation round? Accept the offer?

Seems to me we ought to generally accept the offer. Shall we push for a battery at first to help us in early efforts?

@inverted_helix If we ask for the battery how soon would we be able to use the artifact?

I suppose alternatively we could ask for the Bugeisha...

@inverted_helix Are the Bugeisha Elites or Vets?
 
THinking about rebellion, most of Mami's nigh legendary status was just being that good. The closest thing to a trick was the ribbon clone.
 
Seems to me we ought to generally accept the offer. Shall we push for a battery at first to help us in early efforts?

@inverted_helix If we ask for the battery how soon would we be able to use the artifact?
You'll be able to use it in the next turn plan. (Since this turn is already locked in.)

I suppose alternatively we could ask for the Bugeisha...

@inverted_helix Are the Bugeisha Elites or Vets?
About half and half. Hiko can't spare whole squads of elites in the same way Hino can.
 
THinking about rebellion, most of Mami's nigh legendary status was just being that good. The closest thing to a trick was the ribbon clone.
I think developing Mami's ribbons would be the way to go. Besides increasing what she could conjure with them and increasing their effectiveness, she may be able to go in the direction of having them form around her like impromptu body-armor. Would work as strength, speed, and duribilty enhancement like in Tsugumomo.




 
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Without the bugeisha, we don't have an on-hand means of repairing damage. It would be nice to have the bugeisha team on standby at least for that.

Also, my expectation is that the second attack run we do is going to have the highest rate of youma attempting to teleport in to assist, which will put the greatest strain on the available mana, and is probably better handled using the bugeisha team than the battery.

As such, it would probably be good to have the bugeisha on hand for at least minor assistance while our own girls are being trained. If we're only going after a handful of attacks per month, we can also just ask that they be present on those days, so it doesn't require their ongoing time.

The battery provides enough flexibility that it should be useful for most of our purposes until we get our mana team trained.

Ask her about the sustainability rates for the battery vs a trained handler.

Northern area region near the shinkansen would be easy enough. There's a line running due north out of central Tokyo, through Saitama. We'll even be finding out a bit about its population during this next stage of attacks.


Still the choice between 100 territory for the current deal, or 150 if including permanent ownership plus rentals in the future. While I don't really see the artifact itself as being worth that deal, if the rentals are predicated on that, it goes up substantially in value.

Since she's more interested in the cubes than the girls, and I've worked out that it needs about 26 meguca to farm 100 territory at DS 0 for 98 cubes per month, she may be less interested in providing a support area for the natives. That would be like all that work I've been calculating for our own potentials.

Given that she might put her own group members in Tokyo to handle the harvesting, we might be able to accept some of the overflow within the realm of our own territory, which needs a few extra people. If, for example, she sent 26 of hers to a 100 area, and added in handling 24 locals to put it at 50%, the other 26 might by shifted elsewhere. Depends on how much effort she wants to put into training up the locals in order to do the farming for her.


So, I'd ask about those two things:

1) What is the sustainability rate for the mana battery vs a bugeisha?

2) Is she intending to displace the locals with her already-trained meguca, or try to integrate/train everyone that's already there?
 
THinking about rebellion, most of Mami's nigh legendary status was just being that good. The closest thing to a trick was the ribbon clone.
Actually just re-watched her fight with Homura yesterday. Still amazing.

On the other hand, I'm now not entirely convinced that that was a ribbon clone. I feel like it's entirely possible that that was literally her own body turned to ribbons.
 
So after Mami is able to take care of the teleportation interdictor, we should have her train with ribbon bullshit?
 
I agree with Mami about the negotiations being pretty much over.
Main sticking point is whether to get the artifact permanently. Access to renting any other artifacts she has could be pretty significant.

Other that, it's whether we can bargain the price any further down, or if these are "game balance" prices rather than "negotiable" prices.
 
THinking about rebellion, most of Mami's nigh legendary status was just being that good. The closest thing to a trick was the ribbon clone.
The thing about Rebellion Mami is that:
That's all happening inside Homucifer's proto-Barrier, and as such Mami's prowess may have been jacked up a bit due to Homura's own unconscious biases. More than anyone other than Madoka, it's Mami who has been a major fulcrum in Homura's development:
  • Mami was the senior magical girl in charge of the Mitakihara group during Moemura's maiden voyage
  • Mami was Homura's trainer during Loop 1, helping her develop her powers.
  • Then Mami found out about the Witchbomb, and went Tetris on everyone, betraying the trust (and attendant pedestal and unreasonably high expectations) that Homura had placed on her.
Mami has always been the stick against which Homura measured herself, and secretly always found herself wanting. It actually doesn't surprise me that, in a world created by Homura's despair and hidden fears, Homura would still feel herself inferior to Mami, and would thus twist the world around until she is inferior to Mami.
 
Without the bugeisha, we don't have an on-hand means of repairing damage. It would be nice to have the bugeisha team on standby at least for that.

Also, my expectation is that the second attack run we do is going to have the highest rate of youma attempting to teleport in to assist, which will put the greatest strain on the available mana, and is probably better handled using the bugeisha team than the battery.

As such, it would probably be good to have the bugeisha on hand for at least minor assistance while our own girls are being trained. If we're only going after a handful of attacks per month, we can also just ask that they be present on those days, so it doesn't require their ongoing time.

The battery provides enough flexibility that it should be useful for most of our purposes until we get our mana team trained.

Probably ought to ask for something like this.

Still the choice between 100 territory for the current deal, or 150 if including permanent ownership plus rentals in the future. While I don't really see the artifact itself as being worth that deal, if the rentals are predicated on that, it goes up substantially in value.

Since she's more interested in the cubes than the girls, and I've worked out that it needs about 26 meguca to farm 100 territory at DS 0 for 98 cubes per month, she may be less interested in providing a support area for the natives. That would be like all that work I've been calculating for our own potentials.

Given that she might put her own group members in Tokyo to handle the harvesting, we might be able to accept some of the overflow within the realm of our own territory, which needs a few extra people. If, for example, she sent 26 of hers to a 100 area, and added in handling 24 locals to put it at 50%, the other 26 might by shifted elsewhere. Depends on how much effort she wants to put into training up the locals in order to do the farming for her.

We ought to bring up expectations about how Tokyo will work. I would like to propose that girls in Tokyo can live, work, and go to school anywhere in Tokyo regardless of territory. Territory applies only to hunting grounds. And that local girls can choose to align with other groups. Suggest as an incentive for her to support this that we would be happy to take the girls in her area.

Something like that?
 
We ought to bring up expectations about how Tokyo will work. I would like to propose that girls in Tokyo can live, work, and go to school anywhere in Tokyo regardless of territory. Territory applies only to hunting grounds. And that local girls can choose to align with other groups. Suggest as an incentive for her to support this that we would be happy to take the girls in her area.

Something like that?
That sounds reasonable, but I don't know how well it would fly with other groups. There's a pretty strong association between where you live and what territory is yours, and it requires quite a bit of trust. Plus, that's already a diplomacy action: Free Passage.

Most likely you'd want/need to live within your territory, but allowing girls to work or go to school wherever they want is not a bad deal.

It's also not really what we want. We want the girls living together, not commuting across the city for work and then going back home.

On the other hand, we don't want people bound solely by where they live. A good portion of any recruits we get are likely to still live with their families, but they could be anywhere in Tokyo.

Something along these lines is probably useful, but I'll need to think on it a bit more.
 
Since she's more interested in the cubes than the girls, and I've worked out that it needs about 26 meguca to farm 100 territory at DS 0 for 98 cubes per month, she may be less interested in providing a support area for the natives. That would be like all that work I've been calculating for our own potentials.

Given that she might put her own group members in Tokyo to handle the harvesting, we might be able to accept some of the overflow within the realm of our own territory, which needs a few extra people. If, for example, she sent 26 of hers to a 100 area, and added in handling 24 locals to put it at 50%, the other 26 might by shifted elsewhere. Depends on how much effort she wants to put into training up the locals in order to do the farming for her.
I don't actually understand what you mean with this section.

1) What is the sustainability rate for the mana battery vs a bugeisha?
While it's at least theoretically possible to brute force the barrier down even with them supporting it, it's unlikely to happen in either case. She can't judge with high certainty because she mostly uses it against other magical girls. Youma have a bit more magical power behind them than elites do, but it shouldn't be a problem.
2) Is she intending to displace the locals with her already-trained meguca, or try to integrate/train everyone that's already there?
She'll try to integrate everyone already there, she doesn't plan to push anyone off their land.

Other that, it's whether we can bargain the price any further down, or if these are "game balance" prices rather than "negotiable" prices.
Prices still have some negotiating room, though to get much change you'd need to come up with something new to offer.

Something of note is that in this negotiation I haven't rolled a single time. I knew what she wanted from the start, and then just kind of logically played out how the negotiation would go based on your tactics. Essentially she always needed a significant and permanent (because of her perspective she values permanence very highly) increase to her cube supply and that's been her angle. She had a minimum value in mind, as well as a bevy of things she could offer, but she's been negotiating much like a real person would negotiate, not letting you know exactly what her minimum wants and maximum offer is.

(I considered doing a simple point buy system like the trade with Nagoya again, but mostly just felt like doing something different this time. More complicated and slower, but more realistic. I may or may not do this again in future deals.)

If we can figure out the ribbon clone, could we put it on the list to mass produce, Mami on a spool, alongside Kyouko in a can?
You current charms only really last a few seconds, so neither Kyouko nor potentially Mami clones are really that feasible.

On the other hand, I'm now not entirely convinced that that was a ribbon clone. I feel like it's entirely possible that that was literally her own body turned to ribbons.
I never thought of that before but it kind of makes sense.

The thing about Rebellion Mami is that:
See that's always been my perspective on Rebellion Mami, but it's been debated a lot in this thread whether or not that was the case.
 
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That sounds reasonable, but I don't know how well it would fly with other groups. There's a pretty strong association between where you live and what territory is yours, and it requires quite a bit of trust. Plus, that's already a diplomacy action: Free Passage.
Yes, basically what I'm asking for is Free Passage to be built into the Tokyo agreement. If we are going to be the influence bringing everyone together,then I think we ought to do it.

I don't actually understand what you mean with this section.

He's suggesting that local Tokyo girls are not tied necessarily to the territory they live in. Heaven's Chosen could get the territory and we'd take the girls.
 
I don't actually understand what you mean with this section.
It's OK. I was muddling through a few different ideas there, and am still not entirely sure what conclusion I was trying to reach.
While it's at least theoretically possible to brute force the barrier down even with them supporting it, it's unlikely to happen in either case. She can't judge with high certainty because she mostly uses it against other magical girls. Youma have a bit more magical power behind them than elites do, but it shouldn't be a problem.
Good to know. Means we're not looking at a significant power imbalance between them. Also means that requesting the bugeisha group for specific instances shouldn't be necessary, though we may want to still have them available for repairs.
She'll try to integrate everyone already there, she doesn't plan to push anyone off their land.
OK. And the intent is to get a section with as few natives on it in the first place as possible, anyway.
Something of note is that in this negotiation I haven't rolled a single time.
:)

While it may be troublesome, I do appreciate when a GM does something like this. While I have actually argued in favor of diced vs diceless systems with a RL friend, I also find it frustrating in a lot of quests when it seems like almost nothing can be done without rolling dice, and dice are a really poor substitute for actual interaction.

Also annoying is dice used for non-random things, because that randomness will inevitably cause things to look crazy. Well, sometimes a bit of crazy is fun, but usually better in small doses.

Yes, basically what I'm asking for is Free Passage to be built into the Tokyo agreement. If we are going to be the influence bringing everyone together,then I think we ought to do it.
OK, this sounds workable.

Something like:

With the massive disruption of Tokyo due to the youma events, and the chaotic mixing of people together, there's no guarantee that the final scattering and re-gathering of groups is going to fit the desires and needs of the individual girls. While those without homes can always be provided residences by the group they join, those with families and schools may end up living in locations outside the zone of control of the group they want to associate with.

To avoid that becoming a new source of conflict, we'd like to ensure that Tokyo as a whole be considered a Safe Passage area. Girls should not be separated from their families simply for the sake of territory. Obviously grief cube hunting is still restricted within a group's boundaries, and we're sure there are situations that would otherwise need to be resolved by keeping people in or out of various zones, but at least for family and school, boundaries should not be a limitation.

We don't expect this to be a common issue, and it's unlikely to affect things at an organizational level, but we do want to ensure a common understanding and mutual agreement to this issue with any group in the Tokyo area, so as to help maintain friendly relations between all parties.

----

I can maybe see Hiko agreeing to this on a one-to-one level, but being reluctant to agree to it on a general level. Without actual agreement from the other side, it's sort of like trusting that the Iwata incident wouldn't have happened. If you're not comfortable with who has control of the territory your girls are living in, how can you trust that they won't be harmed or used as leverage against you?

It might be easier (and probably a better approach) to just get the Safe Passage agreement between the two of us, with the understanding that we'll be trying to do the same thing with other groups, and perhaps get a mutual Safe Passage with anyone either of us makes such an agreement with.

Both Hiko and Mami are very protective of their girls, so I could see that neither would be entirely comfortable with a completely open Safe Passage in Tokyo, until they got to know all of the individual groups. On the other hand, that same protectiveness may make them more likely to want that general Safe Passage, to be more certain their girls are safe as they travel the city. But at least between the two of them, I think they can work together.
 
It's OK. I was muddling through a few different ideas there, and am still not entirely sure what conclusion I was trying to reach.

Good to know. Means we're not looking at a significant power imbalance between them. Also means that requesting the bugeisha group for specific instances shouldn't be necessary, though we may want to still have them available for repairs.

OK. And the intent is to get a section with as few natives on it in the first place as possible, anyway.

:)

While it may be troublesome, I do appreciate when a GM does something like this. While I have actually argued in favor of diced vs diceless systems with a RL friend, I also find it frustrating in a lot of quests when it seems like almost nothing can be done without rolling dice, and dice are a really poor substitute for actual interaction.

Also annoying is dice used for non-random things, because that randomness will inevitably cause things to look crazy. Well, sometimes a bit of crazy is fun, but usually better in small doses.


OK, this sounds workable.

Something like:

With the massive disruption of Tokyo due to the youma events, and the chaotic mixing of people together, there's no guarantee that the final scattering and re-gathering of groups is going to fit the desires and needs of the individual girls. While those without homes can always be provided residences by the group they join, those with families and schools may end up living in locations outside the zone of control of the group they want to associate with.

To avoid that becoming a new source of conflict, we'd like to ensure that Tokyo as a whole be considered a Safe Passage area. Girls should not be separated from their families simply for the sake of territory. Obviously grief cube hunting is still restricted within a group's boundaries, and we're sure there are situations that would otherwise need to be resolved by keeping people in or out of various zones, but at least for family and school, boundaries should not be a limitation.

We don't expect this to be a common issue, and it's unlikely to affect things at an organizational level, but we do want to ensure a common understanding and mutual agreement to this issue with any group in the Tokyo area, so as to help maintain friendly relations between all parties.

----

I can maybe see Hiko agreeing to this on a one-to-one level, but being reluctant to agree to it on a general level. Without actual agreement from the other side, it's sort of like trusting that the Iwata incident wouldn't have happened. If you're not comfortable with who has control of the territory your girls are living in, how can you trust that they won't be harmed or used as leverage against you?

It might be easier (and probably a better approach) to just get the Safe Passage agreement between the two of us, with the understanding that we'll be trying to do the same thing with other groups, and perhaps get a mutual Safe Passage with anyone either of us makes such an agreement with.

Both Hiko and Mami are very protective of their girls, so I could see that neither would be entirely comfortable with a completely open Safe Passage in Tokyo, until they got to know all of the individual groups. On the other hand, that same protectiveness may make them more likely to want that general Safe Passage, to be more certain their girls are safe as they travel the city. But at least between the two of them, I think they can work together.
Though with the Safe Passage, should we try to put up say, safety measures and/or defenses just in case other, more hostile groups of meguca show up?
 
:)

While it may be troublesome, I do appreciate when a GM does something like this. While I have actually argued in favor of diced vs diceless systems with a RL friend, I also find it frustrating in a lot of quests when it seems like almost nothing can be done without rolling dice, and dice are a really poor substitute for actual interaction.
It certainly makes things take longer setting up the sides and what hints you have and letting both sides angle at each other for the interactions.

As opposed to something like the Nagoya action where I just rolled an opposed diplomacy check to see what the relative valuations would be and put them straight down as numbers and you could just decide what you wanted.

Also annoying is dice used for non-random things, because that randomness will inevitably cause things to look crazy. Well, sometimes a bit of crazy is fun, but usually better in small doses.
Hence the fact that out of 60 girls none of them were good writers :p

Though most memorable dice roll in a quest I've seen was a nuclear fusion research project rolling 2d1000 = 2 and blowing up a continent. I don't even remember what that quest was about even.

Though it also limits my ability to eat into your omakes when I roll less.

Both Hiko and Mami are very protective of their girls
I wrote two paragraphs on character motivations but then realized that spelling it out kind of spoils things.


Planning to work on the main turn 34 update today. I should be able to knock most of it out today. The other groups are much less fleshed out than the ones I've already set up here, but that's okay for now. Hopefully you guys can decide what you want to do with these negotiations.
 
Though with the Safe Passage, should we try to put up say, safety measures and/or defenses just in case other, more hostile groups of meguca show up?
Anyone not part of a Safe Passage agreement is subject to the normal issues of traveling through foreign territory, which is usually met with a, "Get out!" response. Setting that up explicitly would be redundant, given that that's the default state for most organizations.
 
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