Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
- Start date
Half of Yokohama?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
For Hiko, I mean.
I don't think buying the artifact if worth the 50 extra territory if she's willing to rent it for 5 GCU a month.
Hiko has so far failed to teach anyone to make them. We are not going to be able to reverse engineer her stuff.
You could put more then a tenth of the population on jobs. Our main group has more like a third, I'm not surprised that cutting down by that much would cause money issues.
I suppose you're correct from a sensible perspective that with some modification to behavior you could still use it. But I think you're underestimating how much damage it would be doing to the cutting board.
Mami definitely in the long term, but you have no known way to do so yet.
It's just a term in the fandom I picked up. I'm honestly not sure of the origination but it's kind of catchy to me. Plus Puella Magi is a sort of Incubator term and it's sort of a double meaning.
Kind of a stylistic choice. Players are technically playing Mami but in many cases I give a less specific view so use third person. I could try to narrow it down to only one, but I feel like it works out alright.
Those were specifically non-canon omakes. Homura's on a bit of a world-depression-tour.
Disappointed you didn't carpet-like
Ibaraki Prefecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tochigi Prefecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gunma Prefecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Haman misspelled Ibaraki.
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Oh? Just because she'd only rent out a maintenance team doesn't mean there aren't girls capable of making them fresh. I wouldn't sell our girls short on this either. With maybe two or three visual demonstrations they reverse engineered tandem casting in a month.
You're right, I thought it was explicitly stated that maintenance was as far as she'd gotten in teaching others. That said, tandem casting was invented by a group of girls no more experienced then ours. For them to have it at all implies it must be reasonably easy to invent once you have the idea. Hiko is not limited in the same way.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
For all we know she developed this particular trick within the first decade of her meguca life. She came from the artisan class, and curiously enough she produces artifacts. I wouldn't be surprised if sayings like 'pouring your heart and soul into your work' apply rather literally to artifact creation.
It's also pretty likely that this is dependent on her wish magic. She's borderline Legendary, most of her power has to be something non-transferable or really hard to learn or she'd just teach her tricks to a few trusted subordinates and crush the Junta.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Artifacts don't seem to be things that would produce a clear advantage with more than one to half a dozen girls, and they're permanent besides. That's easily managed by her own efforts, and again I doubt the techniques she's developed are that exclusive, they're just not so utterly gamechanging that spreading them around automatically makes her unstoppable.
Looking at the largest scale, including central Tokyo, need about 1/3 of those girls working (estimated 100) to support the needed upkeep. Which is entirely unsurprising.
We can also estimate that at least 1/3 of the girls will be greens, likely 1/2 (after the de-icing of Nagoya), and possibly up to 2/3. Regardless, putting the vast majority of the jobs on the greens is SOP.
Of the remainder, 650 territory could be hunted by about 250 solo vets to get it from -20 to -10, with no armor, or 225 vets to get it from -15 to -7 with hard leather armor (which is another $60k in expenses).
We don't have enough vets to train all of them at once. Would be training 220 per month, needing 55 vets. Maybe allocate 10 trainers for 40 meguca units to train 120 of them in the first 3 months, then use 35 of those for 45 total trainers to train 180 meguca units for 540 total trained in the 3 months after that. 660 total over 6 months.
Allowing for the training, and the 100 workers, and the numbers needed for hunting.... it's possible. Money becomes a huge obstacle, though, and we'll need some governmental structure that would make sense for it to transition into, that would work well with our main structure.
Tochigi is northwest of that, and north of Saitama.
And Gunma is west of Tochigi, also north of Saitama.
Saitama is north of the Tokyo prefecture.
All of those are way on the other side of Tokyo from us. I'm not sure why we'd use those as part of what we want to absorb. If anything, the only ones we'd look at seriously would be the Kanagawa and Tokyo prefectures.
The MMEQ Google Map is being a royal pain lately, not wanting to load, not fully drawing in, not labeling stuff, etc.
Going to pull in some pictures for context.
Tokyo prefecture, with surrounding prefectures:
The purple districts are the 23 special wards, that covers downtown Tokyo and its nearest environs. Saitama is north of that, and Tochigi and Gunma are north of Saitama. Ibaraki is east of those two, and north of Chiba (which you can see on the edge of the map).
Yokohama is in the Kanagawa prefecture on the bottom of the image, and we're southwest of that.
A larger map of all Japan, with its prefectures:
You can see the lines pointing at Tokyo and Kanagawa prefectures; tiny little things in green. You can see Gunma, Tochigi and Ibaraki on the north end of the green. Mitakihara would be in Shizuoka, light blue on the south coast southwest of Tokyo.
The Kofu group is dead center of the Yamanashi prefecture, west of Kanagawa and north of Shizuoka.
Our primary expansion pretty much has to be into Kanagawa/Yokohama. Beyond that, we can either look north into the cities in the middle of the Tokyo prefecture, or northeast into the special wards.
Haman referred to the Maebashi (Gunma) to Kumagaya (Saitama) cities as where to work through, but that seems an unreasonable jump.
Here's the special wards of Tokyo:
We don't even need to go after the entire district. Seven or Eight of the southwest wards (those adjacent to Yokohama) can get an extra 3 to 4 million population (150-200 territory). Something like: Ota, Shinagawa, Minato, Shibuya, Meguro, Setagaya, and maybe Nakano and Suginami.
So basically the steps are:
1) Out to Yokohama. +200 territory.
2) Add Southwest Tokyo. +200 territory.
3) Add all special wards. +200 territory.
For 200, 400, or 600 more territory, more or less.
All of these come with costs that are going to require some serious cash inflow.
Jumping to territories on the far north side of Tokyo doesn't seem reasonable.
We can also estimate that at least 1/3 of the girls will be greens, likely 1/2 (after the de-icing of Nagoya), and possibly up to 2/3. Regardless, putting the vast majority of the jobs on the greens is SOP.
Of the remainder, 650 territory could be hunted by about 250 solo vets to get it from -20 to -10, with no armor, or 225 vets to get it from -15 to -7 with hard leather armor (which is another $60k in expenses).
We don't have enough vets to train all of them at once. Would be training 220 per month, needing 55 vets. Maybe allocate 10 trainers for 40 meguca units to train 120 of them in the first 3 months, then use 35 of those for 45 total trainers to train 180 meguca units for 540 total trained in the 3 months after that. 660 total over 6 months.
Allowing for the training, and the 100 workers, and the numbers needed for hunting.... it's possible. Money becomes a huge obstacle, though, and we'll need some governmental structure that would make sense for it to transition into, that would work well with our main structure.
OK, Ibaraki is on the far east of Tokyo, along the coastline.
Tochigi is northwest of that, and north of Saitama.
And Gunma is west of Tochigi, also north of Saitama.
Saitama is north of the Tokyo prefecture.
All of those are way on the other side of Tokyo from us. I'm not sure why we'd use those as part of what we want to absorb. If anything, the only ones we'd look at seriously would be the Kanagawa and Tokyo prefectures.
The MMEQ Google Map is being a royal pain lately, not wanting to load, not fully drawing in, not labeling stuff, etc.
Going to pull in some pictures for context.
Tokyo prefecture, with surrounding prefectures:
The purple districts are the 23 special wards, that covers downtown Tokyo and its nearest environs. Saitama is north of that, and Tochigi and Gunma are north of Saitama. Ibaraki is east of those two, and north of Chiba (which you can see on the edge of the map).
Yokohama is in the Kanagawa prefecture on the bottom of the image, and we're southwest of that.
A larger map of all Japan, with its prefectures:
You can see the lines pointing at Tokyo and Kanagawa prefectures; tiny little things in green. You can see Gunma, Tochigi and Ibaraki on the north end of the green. Mitakihara would be in Shizuoka, light blue on the south coast southwest of Tokyo.
The Kofu group is dead center of the Yamanashi prefecture, west of Kanagawa and north of Shizuoka.
Our primary expansion pretty much has to be into Kanagawa/Yokohama. Beyond that, we can either look north into the cities in the middle of the Tokyo prefecture, or northeast into the special wards.
Haman referred to the Maebashi (Gunma) to Kumagaya (Saitama) cities as where to work through, but that seems an unreasonable jump.
Here's the special wards of Tokyo:
We don't even need to go after the entire district. Seven or Eight of the southwest wards (those adjacent to Yokohama) can get an extra 3 to 4 million population (150-200 territory). Something like: Ota, Shinagawa, Minato, Shibuya, Meguro, Setagaya, and maybe Nakano and Suginami.
So basically the steps are:
1) Out to Yokohama. +200 territory.
2) Add Southwest Tokyo. +200 territory.
3) Add all special wards. +200 territory.
For 200, 400, or 600 more territory, more or less.
All of these come with costs that are going to require some serious cash inflow.
Jumping to territories on the far north side of Tokyo doesn't seem reasonable.
Hmm this is curious, I have it up now and it's working just fine.
That was one of Haman's selection criterion.
- Location
- The Beach
New Goal Acquired: Get Hiko and Keiko in a room together. May want to evacuate the prefecture first though
While I'm not really all that interested in giving her a 150 territory in exchange for the artifact when she's renting it out on the cheap, it would force her to be a larger player in Tokyo politics, and that might be worth getting her the extra large land.
We gotta be careful we don't overreach, I don't think we will be lucky enough for a long grace period after this crisis ends.
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Hm. Screwed up the numbers, I think. Mixing up territory size and number of girls recruited.
First, I'm still assuming only 50% of territory size on the numbers recruited, based on overall averages. We don't actually know what the numbers we'll be getting are. With a high popularity, we could end up with significantly more. While that's fine for us, it creates a significant shortage in other areas of Tokyo.
In fact, I think our best course is to see how many want to join, and expand territory acquisition to reach 50% coverage, rather than go the other way around. If we get 300 girls wanting to join, we need 600 territory, or everyone else is going to have more territory than they can hunt, and we'll never get out of the DS hole.
Now, back to my messed up numbers:
If we get 300 new girls... actually, let's say 330 total, including the 40 refugees. If we have 330 total, 110 of them need to be put on jobs. Given the 25% cold call acceptance rate, let's say 120 are put on job hunting, and hope that any loan we pick up can cover the slack for a few months.
For training, we need to pull in about 32 to get the first batch trained up. (8 trainers, 32 meguca units, 96 meguca being trained over 3 months. Will have enough to finish the rest over the next 3 months.)
That leaves 178 available for actual hunting. Will call it 170.
Assuming that all 170 of those are vets, and that we can pull another 10 from our own group to supplement... If there's no dispatch/teleport, it's barely positive on DS; maybe +2.
For 650 total territory, would need about 25 dispatchers (unlikely; 15 average in a group of 300) and 13 teleporters. Take those out of the hunter totals, and cube harvest improves enough to give about a +6 DS.
Suppose we skip the training on the first month, and focus only on restoring Tokyo's DS levels. Dispatch+teleport, 20 experienced vets, and 160 untrained vets, would be enough to push DS up by +12. (0% casualty, no armor)
That I can confirm fits within the numbers (aside from dispatch). 120 hunting jobs, ~200 on hunting or support. Once we get it close to DS 0, we can keep it stable with 10 experienced vets + 120 new vets, as long as we have dispatch available. That frees up ~50 people for training.
These ratios scale over whatever numbers we actually end up with.
Now, dispatch. @inverted_helix, what was the rate on dispatchers per territory area? I've been spitballing 25 territory per dispatcher, but I don't remember what the basic rate was before we did the advanced training (and I'm not sure the advanced training would carry over).
With clairvoyants being a 5% wish rate (but possibly higher in Tokyo), and assuming we're getting 50% as many girls as territory, we'd only be able to have enough dispatchers for the territory if they had a 40:1 coverage rate.
I wonder if we could maybe double their coverage rate if we paired them with a teleporter? Otherwise this is going to be really painful.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Is my sparring with Serena+Retinue at all viable?
20 territory per clairvoyant. And your advanced training is limited to your original territory, it's basically a specialized scanning pattern tailored to the area.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
There was almost never going to be a possibility that we could somehow keep Tokyo solely influenced or solely grabbed up by us. One more person putting fingers in a pie that's more than 10 times our size is less a detriment, and more a relief.
Nagoya's going to grab to majority of it, obviously, but I don't see any need to actively encourage anyone else to grab parts of Tokyo.
Sorry just forgot, took a phone call mid way.
No this isn't a route. Training against a legendary is simply learning to counter their cheat, it's not really developing a cheat of your own.
They are the prefectures, similar to a county in the US.
They are on Google Maps, and you can even click on them to get population stats and boundaries.
I think we talked about this before about:
1: Rolling out equipment (normally part of our welcome package) in stages:
-- Stage 1: Cellphones
-- Stage 2: Shields, maybe Apartments
-- Stage 3: Apartments and allowance
2: Massive expansion of the courier service. (Tokyo ought to be huge in the returns).
3: Sending extra girls out to get jobs once we have DS back up to safe levels.
There may be a cash crunch at first, but I'm not too worried about upkeep long term. There is no reason to believe that Tokyo is less sustainable than Mitakihara.
@inverted_helix Is that what was meant? I thought Hiko was offering to rent additional ones to us if we bought the first one. (I might have misunderstood since they were together in the paragraph).
Err... yes? That's what I said. That's why I said we should expand into the Kanagawa and Tokyo prefectures.
It's also why I suggested Siatama, Chiba, and maybe Ibaraki for Nagoya.
While suggesting Tochigi for Heaven's Chosen, and Gunma for someone else (Republic or Magick Corp).
Err... no?
I am arguing that we ought to clear Gunma next month as our first act so that we can hunt it for cubes. That's because we are running into a cube crunch that I expect to get worse with more and more refugees. So we need a large area that we can reasonably detach from the rest of Tokyo, and Gunma is the best fit for that.
That wasn't an argument to permanently go there, although it's possible we may end up with strong connections to the local girls.
You can have non-clairvoyant dispatchers. We used to actually. Not as girl efficient, but it still will work.
Kind of playing with that idea around Gunma. Maybe hire Magick Corp to handle training, etc. I think Magick Corp is really the only group we can trust to keep their promises on things like that though.
Maybe so that Nagoya doesn't end up with a majority? I'm thinking something like a split of: 40% Serenes, 35% Nagoya, 8% HC, 8% someone else, and 9% someone else.
Looking back at the governmental thing. While getting an extra hundred girls is manageable with only a little stretching, getting 300+ would be quite problematic.
We have about 65 main girls (not counting Serena's group, since she's largely isolated from the rest), and are working on incorporating 40 more. By the time we're done with Tokyo, they should be adequately adapted, so we're looking at about 100 total with middling to good integration.
The 200 that Nagoya has on ice will know nothing about us. They might join a Nagoya faction, but they won't join ours.
For us to get 300 would be almost half of the non-iced meguca. I can see that as an upper limit of those who might be willing to join us, given that we got a pretty good chunk of the girls who escaped last turn.
Now what happens if we try to add 100-300 to our base 100? How do they behave relative to those who are already here? How do we administer things? Who's in charge?
If we go with the House nomenclature, we can name houses after any elites that happen to join our side, putting them in charge of a block of territory while we work on fitting things together. (~Maybe; see below.) Those elites would also have to be at the top of the list for training and integration. Alternative naming would be along the lines of elementary school classes, which are named after flowers or fruits. (We already have Sakura ready.) Something light and friendly, that doesn't imply contest between Houses.
Each physical house has a capacity of 25. (About 10 girls living there, 10 with family of their own, and 5 space for buffer.) We'd need 15 houses for the total number of girls if we got 300. Could also be done with apartments. We might get 15 elites (half of the elites active in Tokyo), but that would be a stretch. Maybe 10.
Still, that's workable. Basically, one elite per ~20 girls, and other well-received vets when we run out of elites. The house is just a number until they show they've truly integrated with our system, and then we can give the House a name. Because the House is everyone there, not just the leader.
Preferable House size would be about 50 girls, I think, with potential to merge for up to 100. @50 that would give us 2 to 6 Houses. The Sakura Church would be the House for the base ~100.
By grouping it that way, each has enough to manage things without too much fuss. 50 girls is manageable even if things are a bit chaotic; 100 is manageable with experience. Whatever we gain has to be done in manageable units. We can't take in one mass hierarchical block.
Can maybe allow a bit of specialization eventually, but mostly have each House be well-balanced, with a good mix of people doing different things.
I think that works for managing the integration. Keep each group small enough that there's plenty of room for friendship to grow, rather than a mass of people that you barely know. Keeps stratification low. This is probably stable up to a total population of about 5000, which is basically as many magical girls as the entirety of Japan can support.
We have about 65 main girls (not counting Serena's group, since she's largely isolated from the rest), and are working on incorporating 40 more. By the time we're done with Tokyo, they should be adequately adapted, so we're looking at about 100 total with middling to good integration.
The 200 that Nagoya has on ice will know nothing about us. They might join a Nagoya faction, but they won't join ours.
For us to get 300 would be almost half of the non-iced meguca. I can see that as an upper limit of those who might be willing to join us, given that we got a pretty good chunk of the girls who escaped last turn.
Now what happens if we try to add 100-300 to our base 100? How do they behave relative to those who are already here? How do we administer things? Who's in charge?
If we go with the House nomenclature, we can name houses after any elites that happen to join our side, putting them in charge of a block of territory while we work on fitting things together. (~Maybe; see below.) Those elites would also have to be at the top of the list for training and integration. Alternative naming would be along the lines of elementary school classes, which are named after flowers or fruits. (We already have Sakura ready.) Something light and friendly, that doesn't imply contest between Houses.
Each physical house has a capacity of 25. (About 10 girls living there, 10 with family of their own, and 5 space for buffer.) We'd need 15 houses for the total number of girls if we got 300. Could also be done with apartments. We might get 15 elites (half of the elites active in Tokyo), but that would be a stretch. Maybe 10.
Still, that's workable. Basically, one elite per ~20 girls, and other well-received vets when we run out of elites. The house is just a number until they show they've truly integrated with our system, and then we can give the House a name. Because the House is everyone there, not just the leader.
Preferable House size would be about 50 girls, I think, with potential to merge for up to 100. @50 that would give us 2 to 6 Houses. The Sakura Church would be the House for the base ~100.
By grouping it that way, each has enough to manage things without too much fuss. 50 girls is manageable even if things are a bit chaotic; 100 is manageable with experience. Whatever we gain has to be done in manageable units. We can't take in one mass hierarchical block.
Can maybe allow a bit of specialization eventually, but mostly have each House be well-balanced, with a good mix of people doing different things.
I think that works for managing the integration. Keep each group small enough that there's plenty of room for friendship to grow, rather than a mass of people that you barely know. Keeps stratification low. This is probably stable up to a total population of about 5000, which is basically as many magical girls as the entirety of Japan can support.
OK, that's not what it sounded like you were saying here: