Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

[Elder Haman]

Charm distribution:

Click to shrink...

I'd rather distribute most of the charms right away, as they do more good out where they can be used.

Canvasing Tokyo - How do we even approach this? We can't go into Tokyo proper until we've cleared out a good portion of the territory, and even then it's a bit risky. We can't really hang out after a fight to talk to everyone, because that's just baiting more attacks. We only have telephone contact with the elites, so any vets or greens that aren't part of those groups would be left out. We can't leave flyers out because of masquerade issues.

I think the only thing we can really do this month is ride on the info we're providing the elites as we progress through the city. We keep them informed every day of our activities and kills (along with warnings about demon movement, and risky areas), and by the end of the month it'll have to be pretty solid word-of-mouth that we were the ones at the helm the entire time. By the time we start making real headway, we're going to be the gossip that all the groups are talking about, and that may be enough to spread the word outside groups of the elite contacts we were talking to directly.

At best, we can provide a contact number for the people we're talking to to pass out to anyone who wants to get in touch with us. Heck, the number we're calling them from is itself a primary contact number, so we can just tell them it's free to give out to anyone who asks. Then just have someone on duty to answer any inquiries.

Click to shrink...

I think we ought to focus on sweeping up any girls that come out to join us in the fights. Vets get set back to our territory to help with the backlog/hunting. Elites join our support team. Then next month any we picked up can be our connection to other girls in the Tokyo areas.

Rising Stars. I don't even know if we can train Kaoru for this this month. Assuming she's spending half time in Tokyo with the others, it wouldn't have a valid full vet to assign to the training effect.

On the other hand, I wonder whether Serena's aura, getting rid of all fears and doubts, would make it so that she absolutely will push herself to that level. In fact, the time in Tokyo will itself be a bit like a harsh training regimen for the same purpose (and the same occasional aura boost to do her best).

Thematically, this just feels like a good month for Kaoru to make elite. An enormous challenge, a promise to protect, and the confidence to succeed.

Anyone who's been holding back on Kaoru omakes, this would be the time to make it happen. (Also need lots of omakes in general, to keep people alive in the worst fights.)

Click to shrink...

I don't see how we can possibly fit this in.

Morale - Need a solid morale action this month, as it's going to be rough. Put in the "welcome home" dinners as both a general boost, and a specific boost for those taking the risks here.

Click to shrink...

Dropped this to just having a dinner ready, since that should use less girls than trying to get everyone together (that really ought to take more than 2 vets). 4 vets spending 2 hours a day preparing meals = 1 meguca month seems reasonable for just dinner.

It's also why I'm pushing for the full hunt, as that gives people the confidence that we're going to be solidly back in place in cubes, before we even get to the Tokyo drops and bounties (which could give an amazing surplus itself — though we'll probably need a bunch of that to cover the new Tokyo recruits afterwards).

Click to shrink...

Hopefully, which is why I put the max hunting as the first thing in the backlog. But I'd rather not get the full hunting if that means we can focus on Tokyo and bring in a success.

Went for 16 full kevlar purchases, as that puts us at 34 total, the number we're using in Tokyo. The full kevlar used in the normal hunt can be considered as active on the alternate halftime-days that the Tokyo group is back home.

Even with a $10k reserve, we're still at $75k in the bank at the end of the month. $50k of that will go towards the courier expansion, and $20k towards recruiting expenses next month. We'll be cutting things a little close, but I think we'll end up OK.

Click to shrink...

?? We have 20 kevlar vests, and 19 kevlar clothing. I don't think you need that many to get 34 sets.

Notes:
As defined, we have 2.5 spare elite units from Serena's team going halftime. Thinking of putting that on "Learning Japanese", to better improve communications.

Click to shrink...

I think this is sub-optimal. I think they should be full time on this, when not hunting or resting, they should be reviewing the battles and improving their abilities and plans based on those experiences.

I think we can assume that the Tokyo demons are either not intelligent, or think too slowly to quickly adopt optimal tactics in response to our big push. After all, Nagoya has been running cleaner ops in near-coastal downtown Tokyo* for a full year now, and they still haven't seen the demons running pair patrols downtown in response, despite the fact that Nagoya has killed something like, what, a half-to-full dozen Class 3s in that time?

Click to shrink...

helix seems to have repeatedly told us that the demons are intelligent, that they communicate with calls, etc. At this point anything that starts off "the demons are not that intelligent" is waving a big red flag in front of the GM to prove us wrong.

Darwinism at work, producing the appearance of intelligent action.

Click to shrink...

Doesn't Darwinism produce real intelligence? And demons experience Lamarckian evolution don't they? Seems likely to me that the class 3 demons of Tokyo have developed true intelligence.

I don't think it would be that useful. Each of our training actions takes multiple months (eg: our current ongoing generic training), so nothing would be gained in time to be useful. And Serena's group is going to be spending more time fighting on their own than fighting with us, so it seems better to let them keep using their normal strategies, rather than try to mix that up with an incomplete version of ours.

Click to shrink...

I consider it more to be them refining their current tactics with the new experiences they are getting. That seems like a much more urgent thing for them to be doing.

2) 10 elites/10 vets is a hard target for a single demon. If they can detect that many, they generally won't approach, and they are probably going to run if we approach them. Full stealthed, though, means they will only be detecting Serena's group of 5.

Click to shrink...

But can the demons sense that they are elites vs vets? Isn't it more likely that the demons would assume normal elite to vet ratios? In which case... wouldn't they expect a group of 20 girls to be 1 elite and 19 vets?

While I considered the odds of them attacking our full CC to be not that much different than a scout team, I now consider the odds that they'd attack while we have our full CC in place to be substantially lower than the odds that they'd snipe an undefended scout team. If we want to minimize the chances of them fleeing (because we can't kill them if they run), we need their target (Serena) to be as attractive as possible. A non-stealthed mobile CC base would chase them all off, and be counterproductive, while a stealthed comm team would be too easily detected, and too vulnerable to attack.

Click to shrink...

Do we need a comm team though? Also, couldn't Ayase and Kyubey be our comm team?

I think we should experiment during stage 1 a bit and see how different approaches work. Try the stealthed CC a couple times, and try leading the demons back into a trap a couple times too.

3) And of course we have Team Taya working the clairvoyance angle. If we kept her at the static CC base on the mountain, she'd never be able to penetrate the miasma, which means we'd be giving up useful information. With a mobile CC, she should be close enough to scan the nearby demons and give us just-in-time info on their capabilities. And of course penetrate the stealth of the demons themselves, once engaged.

Click to shrink...

Do we know that? These demons would be much closer to Taya than those earlier. The beholder never even entered our range of sight, so I think we'd still be able to penetrate miasma right on the Tokyo boundaries.

 

[Aranfan]

Dropped this to just having a dinner ready, since that should use less girls than trying to get everyone together (that really ought to take more than 2 vets). 4 vets spending 2 hours a day preparing meals = 1 meguca month seems reasonable for just dinner.

Click to shrink...

I don't see just having a dinner ready having the same morale benefits as what Kinematics is proposing, even if it is cheaper on manpower.

 

[Elder Haman]

I got the leather because it fit the needs of hunting plan version 1.5 (static DS). It's a low-priority item, and will likely be removed by the end.

Click to shrink...

But we don't need it, since we have the hard leather too.

Not sure about the meguca needed for the Welcome Home dinners. For half-time, at least, 30 people at 1 hour per day for 15 days per month works out to about 2 meguca months, vs the 1 you assigned (which will calculate out differently because you're using backlog). On the other hand, that's time they're going to be spending on dinner anyway, so it doesn't really eat normal meguca time.

Click to shrink...

Yes, I focused more on the amount of time it would take to prepare a dinner like that. 2 hours a day x 4 meguca = 1 meguca month.

But they still surrender the initiative, which was the primary fear of using the mobile CC next to Serena.

Click to shrink...

True... double stealth still has some advantages.

No, that was mostly Haman at the time. The CC will obviously be attacked at least once, the aim is simply to ensure that it doesn't get swarmed or overwhelmed.

Click to shrink...

A more accurate description of my position is that I want to minimize the number of times our CC is attacked. Once or twice, and with a bit of luck we will be alright. But getting attacked 10 to 20 times would mean we'd likely roll badly at least once.

I don't see just having a dinner ready having the same morale benefits as what Kinematics is proposing, even if it is cheaper on manpower.

Click to shrink...

Not from my impression of combat vets. Good food waiting for them is almost always a key part of the morale of a fighting force. And they'll be eating dinner together, which is good for camaraderie too.

I'm not forbidding other girls from showing up for dinner, but I don't see it as something where we should require all our girls to show up for dinner each night.

 

[Powerofmind]

A more accurate description of my position is that I want to minimize the number of times our CC is attacked. Once or twice, and with a bit of luck we will be alright. But getting attacked 10 to 20 times would mean we'd likely roll badly at least once.

Click to shrink...

The stealth helps keep everyone but clairvoyants out, but even Nagoya admits (through helix's comments) that they rarely got more than one attack because of how threatening a target upwards of 20 girls is on the outskirts of the city, where they're less able to put a bunch of force on it compared to in Tokyo proper (even just vets can probably eliminate a lone class 3 inside a minute at that number).

 

[inverted_helix]

I thought the Daily Progress Updates were implied to not need a meguca assignment? @inverted_helix?

Click to shrink...

I'll accept it just being a free action. Though with keeping Tokyo girls in the loop it's a close run thing.

Not from my impression of combat vets.

Click to shrink...

Something to keep in mind is that your girls are more along the lines of heavily armed farmers in mentality compared to Nagoya's combat teams being more of a soldier mentality.

 

[Elder Haman]

Something to keep in mind is that your girls are more along the lines of heavily armed farmers in mentality compared to Nagoya's combat teams being more of a soldier mentality.

Click to shrink...

Same for farmers really.

Coming home to a good home cooked meal, already prepared, is a nearly universal morale booster.

 

[Aranfan]

I still think it would be improved further by being able to reconnect with the other girls in the organization socially.

 

[Elder Haman]

I'll accept it just being a free action. Though with keeping Tokyo girls in the loop it's a close run thing.

Click to shrink...

Hmm... that will give me 0.5 vets available.

Should I put that on Gossipmonger? Or Pet Whisperer?

Also what are other people's thoughts on order for the backlog? Right now I have it organized by the number of girls it will take but I could probably refine it more.

Backlog (as meguca become freed from Tokyo action, apply them to this backlog of action in the following order):

Additional Hunting: Add girls to the hunting plan up to the maximum hunting plan. (Up to 5.5 vets).
Once we overflow this amount move on down the list to other backlog actions. If there is insufficient meguca for an action below, move on until you reach an action you can do.

Suggest they join the Imperium (Area 15/16): Variable success rate depending on how desperate they are, how much they like you, and the advantages they perceive to doing so.
Cost: 3 Meguca; Reward: Expansion

Tandem Casting, Fusion: Allows dissimilar abilities to be combined to produce more exotic results.
Cost: 3 Veteran, 3 grief cubes; Chance of Success: 5% +5% per month researched
Month 3

Safe Passage Agreement (Kofu): Normally traveling beyond your territory as a magical girl is very risky as it can result in an unexpected battle due to others defending their territory. You'll make an agreement with another group to allow your girls to travel through safely so long as they don't do any hunting, while their girls will be free to do the same in your territory.
Cost: 2 Meguca; Reward: Generally reduces tensions, Improves odds of further actions

Business is Business (Coalition): A further extension of safe passage, allowing your girls to extend your mundane business operations into another's territory, while they will be free to do the same in yours. Differs in that the previous stage is meant for short term movements, while this sets up locations inside their territory, a more risky prospect for both sides.
Cost: 2 Meguca; Reward: allows expansion of business operations for both sides

Gossipmonger (0.5 vets): Keep the other groups we've been in contact with updated on the results of Tokyo clean up, and keep an ear out for what they are thinking.

Open Formal Relations (Magical Republic of Japan): Set places for safe contact, methods (phone numbers, email) for setting up a meeting, etc; note that this is only valid for other groups, when against a single person it's effectively attempt to recruit.
Cost: 0.5 Meguca (since we already have their contact info); Reward: Price reduction on further options (-1)

Open Formal Relations (Heaven's Chosen): Set places for safe contact, methods (phone numbers, email) for setting up a meeting, etc; note that this is only valid for other groups, when against a single person it's effectively attempt to recruit.
Cost: 0.5 Meguca (since we already have their contact info); Reward: Price reduction on further options (-1)

Open Formal Relations (Osaka Junta): Set places for safe contact, methods (phone numbers, email) for setting up a meeting, etc; note that this is only valid for other groups, when against a single person it's effectively attempt to recruit.
Cost: 0.5 Meguca (since we already have their contact info); Reward: Price reduction on further options (-1)

Pet Whisperer (0.5 Nagisa): Spend the month volunteering at animal shelters and public pet training events in the park or public services, to gain practice, and build up reputation and recognition.

Click to shrink...

 

[Elder Haman]

I still think it would be improved further by being able to reconnect with the other girls in the organization socially.

Click to shrink...

I think it puts a damper on things to require other girls to come and socialize. Plus the amount of manpower needed for that is huge.

56 vet meguca... -23 vets on Tokyo, at 2 hours a day... that equals ~8 meguca months. Include prep time and it's more like 9 meguca months, and that's giving ~1.5 hours to eat and socialize.

It's like having 22 mini parties with required attendance.

Besides, I'm sure a lot of the hunting/support/job girls are going to show up for dinner anyway without requiring them too. That ought to provide the socialization they need. And in a natural manner, instead of requiring girls to socialize with the heroes.

 

[Kinematics]

@Elder Haman - I made a mistake in the grief cube totals list, where I put +1 cube for training under gains instead of costs. If you're not doing Rising Stars, you can remove it entirely.

I'd rather distribute most of the charms right away, as they do more good out where they can be used.

Click to shrink...

Yep, updated to that. They basically just go back in the cryokits at the end of each day.

I think we ought to focus on sweeping up any girls that come out to join us in the fights. Vets get set back to our territory to help with the backlog/hunting. Elites join our support team. Then next month any we picked up can be our connection to other girls in the Tokyo areas.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. Need to write up how we want to approach and handle this issue.

I don't see how we can possibly fit this in.

Click to shrink...

As much as I would like it, I'm also uncertain of its viability. I'm mainly just waiting on @inverted_helix to comment on it to know whether to pull it out.

?? We have 20 kevlar vests, and 19 kevlar clothing. I don't think you need that many to get 34 sets.

Click to shrink...

I miscounted the first time and used the wrong numbers. Then I changed it. Then figured out that was a mistake too. So I just left it with "having a spare" for now, until I decide whether it's ok to drop the 2 'spare' vets from the assault team that are just there as buffer for the moment, in case anyone has any bright ideas for special tactics.

I think this is sub-optimal. I think they should be full time on this, when not hunting or resting, they should be reviewing the battles and improving their abilities and plans based on those experiences.

Click to shrink...

This way of describing it does sound more appealing than just "train Serena's group in combat".

helix seems to have repeatedly told us that the demons are intelligent, that they communicate with calls, etc. At this point anything that starts off "the demons are not that intelligent" is waving a big red flag in front of the GM to prove us wrong.

Click to shrink...

There seem to be a lot of different ways of interpreting the word "intelligent". I've been seeing it as like wolves, or killer whales, vs mobs in an MMO that only act according to a dumb bit of AI code. That is, they can react to circumstances, and learn, and won't keep stupidly fighting when the battle turns against them, but their ability to plan and strategize is extremely limited.

On the other hand, other people seem to be using the term to make them comparable to humans in planning and strategy, and thus "not intelligent" means "not human", vs "intelligent" meaning "not a dumb computer AI".

But can the demons sense that they are elites vs vets? Isn't it more likely that the demons would assume normal elite to vet ratios? In which case... wouldn't they expect a group of 20 girls to be 1 elite and 19 vets?

Click to shrink...

If they are likely to attack a group of vets, but avoid a group of elites, I'd figure they can distinguish. Heck, if they can detect magical girls from 10+ miles away, it's no stretch that they can at least get a sense of the 'quality'/'power' of the girl.

Do we need a comm team though? Also, couldn't Ayase and Kyubey be our comm team?

I think we should experiment during stage 1 a bit and see how different approaches work. Try the stealthed CC a couple times, and try leading the demons back into a trap a couple times too.

Click to shrink...

I thought the comm team was your proposition as the alternative to bringing in a mobile CC? If we switch to a stealthed mobile CC, then obviously we don't need a comm team.

Also, I'd be extremely hesitant about bringing Ayase into this. Even if she isn't likely to be directly targeted, running around a -15 or more DS area is certainly not pleasant for a normal human. Regardless of the actual risks, that can't be good for morale, to send a non-combatant into the Tokyo zone.

Do we know that? These demons would be much closer to Taya than those earlier. The beholder never even entered our range of sight, so I think we'd still be able to penetrate miasma right on the Tokyo boundaries.

Click to shrink...

Taya was at our intended CC base station, and monitoring the border demons, and was not able to penetrate the miasma. So yes, we know that.

The distance she was at was around 10 miles. If she accompanies the mobile CC, the two closest demons to any targets are likely to be around 3 to 7 miles away. Getting info on the closest one should be very likely, and getting info on one at the farther end of that range should at least be somewhat possible.

 

[Aranfan]

I think it puts a damper on things to require other girls to come and socialize

Click to shrink...

We are running into assumptions again. I generally don't assume a top down command model of what turn planning represents. The is some of that of course, but in my mind some of it is also people acting on their own individual initiative.

So I don't really see the damper of a bunch of our girls making sure their friends have a hot meal and are able to stay connected.

 

[Kinematics]

I think it puts a damper on things to require other girls to come and socialize. Plus the amount of manpower needed for that is huge.

56 vet meguca... -23 vets on Tokyo, at 2 hours a day... that equals ~8 meguca months. Include prep time and it's more like 9 meguca months, and that's giving ~1.5 hours to eat and socialize.

It's like having 22 mini parties with required attendance.

Besides, I'm sure a lot of the hunting/support/job girls are going to show up for dinner anyway without requiring them too. That ought to provide the socialization they need. And in a natural manner, instead of requiring girls to socialize with the heroes.

Click to shrink...

I don't think it's so much "requiring them to attend" as it is, "It's dinner time; we're putting extra effort into the meals for the sake of those who've been out fighting in Tokyo." It's not going to be full regular attendance, but people will tend to show up to catch up on what's been going on, and just make it a good time after a hard day.

 

[inverted_helix]

Same for farmers really.

Coming home to a good home cooked meal, already prepared, is a nearly universal morale booster.

Click to shrink...

Fair point, I was not arguing that point, just that your girls are not soldiers, and you (Mami) wouldn't really want them to be.

As much as I would like it, I'm also uncertain of its viability. I'm mainly just waiting on @inverted_helix to comment on it to know whether to pull it out.

Click to shrink...

I'm actually a little torn on it, because she definitely wouldn't be able to devote her full time to training, but front line combat can itself be a good teacher. I'm going to say no you can't do it, just in light of the fact that in most scenarios there won't be very much fighting involved for your vets. Some, but not much.

Do we need a comm team though? Also, couldn't Ayase and Kyubey be our comm team?

Click to shrink...

They could...

Also, I'd be extremely hesitant about bringing Ayase into this. Even if she isn't likely to be directly targeted, running around a -15 or more DS area is certainly not pleasant for a normal human.

Click to shrink...

Ayase wouldn't draw direct lethal attention from Class 3s. However she would be suffering depression effects from "environmental damage" of a sort just from being in the area yes. However Tokyo isn't at the everyone dying level, so it's not like she'd just gut herself there. And knowing it's artificial and that it will be gone when she goes home will help her more than the Tokyo residents who just feel like it's natural depression with no end in sight.

There seem to be a lot of different ways of interpreting the word "intelligent". I've been seeing it as like wolves, or killer whales, vs mobs in an MMO that only act according to a dumb bit of AI code. That is, they can react to circumstances, and learn, and won't keep stupidly fighting when the battle turns against them, but their ability to plan and strategize is extremely limited.

On the other hand, other people seem to be using the term to make them comparable to humans in planning and strategy, and thus "not intelligent" means "not human", vs "intelligent" meaning "not a dumb computer AI".

Click to shrink...

I think this very much is an issue with people talking past each other.

Contemplating writing a new section for the general demon information tab to try and better incorporate what you know than the current section which is just copy paste of your original research action.

 

[Kinematics]

Adjustments:

Removed the 2 'spare' vets in the Tokyo team. Total units is now 32 (8 elites, 1 KyouClone, 23 vets).

Reduced kevlar purchases to 12 vests, 13 clothes, to give us 32 of each (plus the rags of the one set of clothes).

Adjusted charm distribution due to the unit count change. Counted KyouClone in those getting barrier and healing charms.

@Elder Haman - Seems to be a stealth charm miscount. Should be 28 non-stealth meguca, not 27.

I'm going to say no you can't do it, just in light of the fact that in most scenarios there won't be very much fighting involved for your vets. Some, but not much.

Click to shrink...

OK, pulled the Rising Stars action out.

Currently have 1 elite (0.5 Mami, 0.5 Kyouko) and 2 vets unassigned.

 

[Elder Haman]

@Elder Haman - I made a mistake in the grief cube totals list, where I put +1 cube for training under gains instead of costs. If you're not doing Rising Stars, you can remove it entirely.

Click to shrink...

Adjusted charm distribution due to the unit count change. Counted KyouClone in those getting barrier and healing charms.

@Elder Haman - Seems to be a stealth charm miscount. Should be 28 non-stealth meguca, not 27.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for pointing these out. It's late and I have to get to bed, but I will review them and make corrections in the morning.

There seem to be a lot of different ways of interpreting the word "intelligent". I've been seeing it as like wolves, or killer whales, vs mobs in an MMO that only act according to a dumb bit of AI code. That is, they can react to circumstances, and learn, and won't keep stupidly fighting when the battle turns against them, but their ability to plan and strategize is extremely limited.

On the other hand, other people seem to be using the term to make them comparable to humans in planning and strategy, and thus "not intelligent" means "not human", vs "intelligent" meaning "not a dumb computer AI".

Click to shrink...

Intelligence the level of wolves would be sufficient for what I am worried about. Once a pack of dogs learn a tactic they do use it again and again. That would suggest that once the demons learn the swarming tactic that they can use it again immediately without having to renegotiate the swarming tactic.

Understand I think we can handle it if we are cautious, but we can't just disregard the risk as not happening because the demons are not intelligent enough.

I don't think it's so much "requiring them to attend" as it is, "It's dinner time; we're putting extra effort into the meals for the sake of those who've been out fighting in Tokyo." It's not going to be full regular attendance, but people will tend to show up to catch up on what's been going on, and just make it a good time after a hard day.

Click to shrink...

Then why are we counting time for that at all? Shouldn't it just be the meguca cost of preparing the dinner, with everyone else just given an invitation if they want to come?

 

[Kinematics]

Then why are we counting time for that at all? Shouldn't it just be the meguca cost of preparing the dinner, with everyone else just given an invitation if they want to come?

Click to shrink...

Is not an unreasonable approach. @inverted_helix would need to say whether he'd allow it. Or more generally, what cost do you want to have assigned to that action?

Includes review of combat actions, preparations for additional actions. Training/practice, etc.

Click to shrink...

I could pull Serena's group off of the language stuff, and shift them to "Review and Training" for their off days.

Communication is still important, though. The review period is going to help with Serena's group's language skills regardless, so I'll just set 1.0 of their time as dedicated to improving their language skills (which also makes it easier to discuss what's being reviewed), and the remaining 1.5 to Review and Training. (Essentially, 2 hours a day on language, 3 hours a day on training, on their off days.)

Probably need some regular elite time in conjunction with this. Maybe 0.5 elite? Dunno about vet time, as well. @inverted_helix?

 

[Avalanche]

Heh, those are ones that I deemed for various reason not really good enough. I've been stacking up omakes needing bonuses too much so I had to put a filter on you know, even if in the past they might have qualified.

I'll think about it, though I don't want to remove too much of the danger. The original one I gave a Guardian Angel was probably the most intense omake this thread has ever gotten (at least imo), which is why I gave it such an outrageous reward.

Click to shrink...

Oh, thanks.

@Avalanche

Help! We need you!

Click to shrink...

Haha, whilst I did scrawl down some ideas for an Omake, it's about the situation in the Koreas and their imminent war, not actually something to do with Tokyo.

 

[TheEyes]

Not really. I mean you guys were looking for information like where demons will be at precise times, and they don't keep static enough schedules for you to really get information like that.

Nagoya just has some general guidelines on how they cut risks down to manageable levels. The thing is to them the idea of every once in a while the command center may be attacked and have to fight them off and/or retreat is acceptable. (I mean even if they have to abandon the boat the demon isn't going to wreck it so they can go get it back later.) You guys have come up with basically the same ideas and realized that the command center may sometimes be attacked, but don't want to accept that like Nagoya did.

Click to shrink...

Ah, okay then.

And I don't think it's so much "don't want to accept that" as much as "can't accept that." Our support team isn't going to be something that can easily withstand a Class 3 attack like 10 elites backed by 10 vets; we don't even have 10 elites in the entire organization! Even the strongest version of our stealthed mobile CC team will consist of a max of five elites and 20 vets (that's bringing Taya along and not having Mami+Kyoclone backing up Serena's team); a group like that, with three tandem barriers up and at full readiness, will only be able to give a decent fight to a single Class 3 and will fall in a few seconds to a pair of Class 3s. The only reason to even consider bringing a group like that into Tokyo at all is because we'll have Serena close by, able to cover them in her demon-debilitating aura in seconds at a telepathic call.

Hopefully, which is why I put the max hunting as the first thing in the backlog. But I'd rather not get the full hunting if that means we can focus on Tokyo and bring in a success.

Click to shrink...

I think the problem @Kinematics has with "focus on Tokyo" is that full-time deployment means that we'd be spending roughly 5-6 hours a day, every day, on combat deployments in Tokyo. That is going to be both too wearying on the deployment group and dangerous to the operation, since it doesn't give the Class 3s time to "settle down" after killing one or two of them, which is likely to cause a panic reaction sooner than we would like.

Or maybe I'm reading your intentions wrong. Are you still going with the idea of a max of five hours of combat deployment every two days, like @Kinematics is? If so, what are you planning on doing during the intervening "cooldown" periods? Maybe we should be spending that time on R&R and post-combat reviews, like you and @Kinematics are doing with Serena's team? If so that basically puts the vet group 50% on morale and training actions, like Serena's group, rather than distributing them to other activities like @Kinematics is.

OK, pulled the Rising Stars action out.

Currently have 1 elite (0.5 Mami, 0.5 Kyouko) and 2 vets unassigned.

Click to shrink...

0.5 Mami should definitely be spent on a sort of "getting to know you" action: chatting with Serena's group, liaising with the Tokyo girls that joined out little warband, just generally being Mami.

Kyoko? Maybe a more militant version of the same thing. Some of the Tokyo girls especially will have a hard time taking Mami at face value: most will be bitter and disillusioned, pushing at super-low Morale levels, and will only see the softness in Mami's approach. Having Kyoko around to be Mami's foil might even be comforting to the Tokyo girls.

The 2 vets? Do we have any specialties unassigned, because I was thinking more barrier charms; we'll probably be burning those like strings of firecrackers if/when the CC is attacked.

Intelligence the level of wolves would be sufficient for what I am worried about. Once a pack of dogs learn a tactic they do use it again and again. That would suggest that once the demons learn the swarming tactic that they can use it again immediately without having to renegotiate the swarming tactic.

Understand I think we can handle it if we are cautious, but we can't just disregard the risk as not happening because the demons are not intelligent enough.

Click to shrink...

Swarming tactics aren't what I'm afraid of; what I'm worried about is that a human-level intelligence would be doing in response to our pressure. A human-level intelligence would be getting the Class 3s to go on pair patrols or even packs, with a group of teleporters around to act as backup. I'm saying that we almost certainly don't have to worry about that sort of problem, and good thing too, because if we did then Tokyo would be unassailable.

 

[inverted_helix]

Is not an unreasonable approach. @inverted_helix would need to say whether he'd allow it. Or more generally, what cost do you want to have assigned to that action?

Click to shrink...

The lower interpretation is fine, I mean people do need to eat regardless of what you're doing.

Probably need some regular elite time in conjunction with this. Maybe 0.5 elite? Dunno about vet time, as well. @inverted_helix?

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure what you're meaning here. For teaching them Japanese? It would help to have someone to talk to in Japanese yes and vet is fine, though you're basically going to be teaching them Japanese through English for the most part. And this isn't going to be a short term activity. Learning Japanese well is going to be fairly long term, it's not an easy language, and it's not even in the same linguistic family as any they already know. Though of course they'll probably be spending a lot of their free time on it anyways, since they can't exactly go to school.

For review and training time from your other meguca would also be helpful, elite more so than vet. Though they can still to some degree go over what they felt they did wrong or right by themselves.

Swarming tactics aren't what I'm afraid of; what I'm worried about is that a human-level intelligence would be doing in response to our pressure. A human-level intelligence

Click to shrink...

And thus certainty that we were confusing our intelligence terms. You were using intelligence only in reference to human-level when you were talking about it before and saying the demons weren't intelligent. There are degrees to intelligence, it's non-binary.

 

[TheEyes]

And thus certainty that we were confusing our intelligence terms. You were using intelligence only in reference to human-level when you were talking about it before and saying the demons weren't intelligent. There are degrees to intelligence, it's non-binary.

Click to shrink...

...right, I'm not explaining myself fully.

Okay, my specific objection was in regards to this string of posts:

A small group of girls I expect the demons will come after them one at a time, which allows for a much better chance of avoidance, and escape. While for a large group I fear the demons will coordinate a simultaneous attack. That's what I would do, and since the demons are intelligent, I sort of figure I should assume they could come up with at least that much strategy.

Click to shrink...

I think we also have to worry about the possibility of the demons sending out a call for reinforcements, and the teleporters traveling there rather quickly.

They'll probably arrive in staggered numbers. Though if there is a large body of girls nearby they might coordinate an attack on them.

Click to shrink...

On the other hand, the fact they did eventually fall suggests that the demons did eventually coordinate an attack.

Click to shrink...

It depends. Maybe the demons had to work out their swarming tactics (dominance issues?), but now it's a standard tactic.

Or it might be as you surmise, and for each event of swarming they have to spend significant time coming to an agreement.

Click to shrink...

The point I was trying to make is that there is a lot of anthropomorphism going on here, implying that the Class 3/4s are actively strategizing, thinking up new tactics and testing them out, that sort of thing, and that doesn't seem to fit the actual evidence. The intelligence we're seeing from these demons doesn't seem to rise to that level; what we're actually seeing is more like emergent pack-like behaviors, possibly weighted by Lamarckian evolution, rather than the sort of active intelligence that the above statements imply.

 

[TheEyes]

Sorry for the double-post, but something just occurred to me:

Aiko has her work cut out for her trying to play councilor this month as she stamps out all sorts of strange concerns. She's not too sure on if cutting grief cubes this month is particularly wise though, girls are a fair bit more worried than usual.

Click to shrink...

Maybe confirmation that our Grief Use Tracking/Management has or can have negative morale effects? Something to keep in mind for the future I guess.

 

[Skelm]

Maybe confirmation that our Grief Use Tracking/Management has or can have negative morale effects? Something to keep in mind for the future I guess.

Click to shrink...

We already knew that:

It is something you can toggle off. I've been rolling to see how well it's received. I mean it is kind of similar to looking at people and saying "you need less air this month". There's a possibility for that to be ill received, but Aiko's been doing a pretty good job with it.

Click to shrink...

 

[Kinematics]

The lower interpretation is fine, I mean people do need to eat regardless of what you're doing.

Click to shrink...

OK, keeping the monetary cost, dropping the meguca hours.

I'm not sure what you're meaning here. For teaching them Japanese? It would help to have someone to talk to in Japanese yes and vet is fine, though you're basically going to be teaching them Japanese through English for the most part.

Click to shrink...

OK, will add 0.5 vet to go with their language time.

And no, never expected it to be short term, but we have to start somewhere. Can at least learn a few key phrases.

For review and training time from your other meguca would also be helpful, elite more so than vet. Though they can still to some degree go over what they felt they did wrong or right by themselves.

Click to shrink...

And I'll add 0.5 elite for this part of things.

---

Now have 0.5 elite and 3.5 vets free.

Currently looking over Haman's backlog list.

Already doing: Extra hunting, Fusion research, Pet whisperer
Can't do yet: Join the Imperium (15/16) [can't do because my setup can't assume we'll have completed clearing Tokyo]
Impractical right now: Business is Business (Coalition) [we can't spare putting people on jobs just yet]
Should probably wait: Open Relations with Kyoto groups
Maybe: Safe Passage (Kofu) [might get us a better handle on them, having a chance to interact more]
Maybe: Gossipmonger [already noted that we're on the edge between free and 0.5 vet for daily progress updates]

Would like to do another morale action. Just can't think of anything that feels appropriate.

Also, could update to hunting plan version 2a. Spend another 0.5 vet and gain an extra 2 cubes.

 

[Elder Haman]

Thanks for pointing these out. It's late and I have to get to bed, but I will review them and make corrections in the morning.

Click to shrink...

Fixed

I think the problem @Kinematics has with "focus on Tokyo" is that full-time deployment means that we'd be spending roughly 5-6 hours a day, every day, on combat deployments in Tokyo. That is going to be both too wearying on the deployment group and dangerous to the operation, since it doesn't give the Class 3s time to "settle down" after killing one or two of them, which is likely to cause a panic reaction sooner than we would like.

Click to shrink...

Well, I think that assumes things about the future behavior of the demons that we are not certain of. I'd like to have the flexibility built in so that we can adjust our actions without having to worry about halftime concerns.

Or maybe I'm reading your intentions wrong. Are you still going with the idea of a max of five hours of combat deployment every two days, like @Kinematics is? If so, what are you planning on doing during the intervening "cooldown" periods? Maybe we should be spending that time on R&R and post-combat reviews, like you and @Kinematics are doing with Serena's team? If so that basically puts the vet group 50% on morale and training actions, like Serena's group, rather than distributing them to other activities like @Kinematics is.

Click to shrink...

This is what I am thinking, at least as the standard plan. I think a day on combat actions followed by a day of reviewing those combat actions and improving and practicing how to do better makes a lot of sense to me. More than switching back to something civilian.

Additionally, what if something starts to happen with the demon behavior and to exploit it we need to start running combat ops everyday? With the fulltime allocation we have that flexibility to respond to whatever the demon reaction is without having to assume that they will act a certain way.

Swarming tactics aren't what I'm afraid of; what I'm worried about is that a human-level intelligence would be doing in response to our pressure. A human-level intelligence would be getting the Class 3s to go on pair patrols or even packs, with a group of teleporters around to act as backup. I'm saying that we almost certainly don't have to worry about that sort of problem, and good thing too, because if we did then Tokyo would be unassailable.

Click to shrink...

I think you are underestimating animal intelligence. Going on patrols in pair or packs is well within the capability of dogs to figure out.

Though of course they'll probably be spending a lot of their free time on it anyways, since they can't exactly go to school.

Click to shrink...

That was actually something I was thinking of. Once we get our cash flow in order, and can afford a permanent location for them, we ought to look into hiring a private tutor and figure out the cost of that.

The point I was trying to make is that there is a lot of anthropomorphism going on here, implying that the Class 3/4s are actively strategizing, thinking up new tactics and testing them out, that sort of thing, and that doesn't seem to fit the actual evidence. The intelligence we're seeing from these demons doesn't seem to rise to that level; what we're actually seeing is more like emergent pack-like behaviors, possibly weighted by Lamarckian evolution, rather than the sort of active intelligence that the above statements imply.

Click to shrink...

See, all those things I proposed as concerns? I don't think they require human level intelligence. Dogs can easily figure out all those things.

I mean... none of those things even reach the level of tool use, which is usually one of the defining aspects of human level intelligence.

Maybe confirmation that our Grief Use Tracking/Management has or can have negative morale effects? Something to keep in mind for the future I guess.

Click to shrink...

Hmm... @inverted_helix in the past said that this was meant to be purely mechanical and not have morale effects. Helix has that changed?

Can't do yet: Join the Imperium (15/16) [can't do because my setup can't assume we'll have completed clearing Tokyo]

Click to shrink...

We actually don't need to clear Tokyo for this. As they are not part of Tokyo. I just figured that any significant success ought to be leveraged diplomatically, so it seemed appropriate to try and convince the girls watching us to join.

On the other hand my plan does assume significant success by that point for enough girls to free up (probably only happen if we kill the beholder inside 2 weeks.) So I can count on a pretty good bonus from that impression. (I figure even if we fail to convince them to join right away, it will start them thinking about it. Nothing like a successful divine intervention to make recruitment easier for our cult.)

Impractical right now: Business is Business (Coalition) [we can't spare putting people on jobs just yet]

Click to shrink...

I don't think it requires putting people on jobs right away, just gets us permission to do so at some point in the future. I might be two or even three months away but if we get the permission now, that means we can use it when girls do become available.

Should probably wait: Open Relations with Kyoto groups

Click to shrink...

Not sure why. We'd be ridding high on Tokyo success, so they'd very much want to talk with us. Also, for a backlog plan we need a good chuck of 0.5 vet actions.

 

[Elder Haman]

Decided to take the free 0.5vet and put her on Gossipmonger