Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
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This is what I meant.
Not a whole lot, their recruitment efforts were fairly similar to yours, but they had slightly less on offer.
Yes but it would be significantly more difficult. Trying to maintain magic harmony with one other is hard enough, trying to maintain it with multiple scales up the difficulty dramatically.
This essentially.
Just to clear up confusion, the earlier local event to your area was actually mundane. Magic had nothing to do with it. It was poorly described in game, because I didn't want to research for a plausible water contaminant when it really didn't matter too much to the actual quest what it was specifically. In universe it was properly identified.
Ah, I didn't see that. Corrected my erroneous correction.
1 time for now.
She currently has 2 omakes banked towards her.
No particular unit amounts.
Yes essentially cube cost for producing meguca cost as well. Probably looking at a multiplier of 3x for tandem cast ones, to account for sometimes the tandem cast not properly holding in the object. It's a further layer of difficulty after all.
Fair point, though I'll likely limit the amount you can carry at a time to some degree.
Current thought is teleport range of about 20 kilometers baseline for a veteran, around 35 for a pair of vets tandem casting, and probably around 20% less for charms from them, shouldn't generally affect too much. Healing charms I'm thinking may only mitigate death chance, since it heals up injuries rather than prevents them. Barrier charms thinking will give around 1-2% risk reduction in general hunting.
Possible, but I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this. I mean the point of tandem spells is that they're slow but strong, and the advantage of anchors is that you can use magic you don't personally have. I'm not sure where you'd be using this.
I went with this instead of raising dispatch bonus.
lol
Rolls were okay, but also 4 omake bonuses I managed to put in there.
Responses through end of page 194. Continued in another post.
Mami is closest to a barrier type, but that's not really accurate. She's unspecified.
The mortgage plan is reasonable, but keep in mind that there will be heavy refurbishment costs on top of it. The land value is heavily depressed because people think the land haunted by Kyouko's old family. But it's still going to need a lot of work to repair it.
You can count relations as opened by the mini-event.
You don't have significant additional areas for the courier business besides Fujinomiya, which the roll penalty for is semi-permanent.
Yeah sorry about it, was only around 12 hours late I think.
I should point out that the church isn't in good living condition at this point.
Hmm I don't think this is really something you need to research specifically. I'll allow it to be covered by the research already done.
Considering her wish makes her essentially the best translator on the planet, it's pretty much the only logical career path for her. She has what amounts to a Star Trek universal translator implanted in her soul. Doing anything that wouldn't use that would be a terrible waste.
You can count them as available as soon as I determine pricing. You can expect charms are in the neighborhood of 80% the strength of the original caster.
Refrigerators rely more on active cooling than on incredible insulation. So it's not really going to be effective. Also in this analogy you're trying to keep heat in the container anyways. Also no putting it in an oven doesn't help either, magic behaves similar to heat in some ways, but isn't the same.
The rest is possible. And pretty much more of a crafting project than true research.
As above. Though you should be able to get them to last through the night fairly simply anyways.
This will be a long run research project.
Not really, two vets is pretty similar in pure power to the enchant as Mami.
Hmm I'll think on this. There's numerous factors to consider.
Hah, a lot.
The plan was brilliant, it was merely the weapons that let her down! That's why in your pvp training she used a magical girl as a weapon, much sturdier yet still nonlethal and even reduced the combat effectiveness of her opponents! Obviously a meguca is the best weapon to use for fighting another meguca.Hmm, this sounds to me an awful lot like it'll end up in a Kyouko-attacking-from-the-trees situation.
I think that's everything that wanted a reply.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
K. I don't really see what Kyuubey has to lose by letting us make the attempt.
10? 30? 50? 100?
"Oh no! A few of our friends might be at risk of dying if we help out! Rather than do that, let's just let 38 million people we don't know die..." is not the response that the Serene are going to have. We might delay our response until we have additional training/supplies/allies/information or whatever in order to make the job a bit safer, but at this point we are obliged to deal with the Tokyo situation.
I expect that things would work like the Class 3 demon we already attacked: the Elites would be the ones doing the actual fighting while the Veterans work in support roles. Combined with Nagoya's extensive experience in the area (and their own experienced Elites), we ought to be able to handle a Class 3 demon much easier than we did earlier - I expect that we would be able to destroy one or two Class 3 demons each turn with (relatively) small risk. That's not enough to clear out Tokyo all at once (of course), but hopefully it would be enough to stabilize the area enough that Kyuubey won't decide to sterilize Tokyo and will allow us to whittle away at their population and eventually clear all of Tokyo.
I suggest that we not do teleportation in the Rural area. Instead, we can use the 0.5 Vet that would be handling teleportation there to hunt. This would save 0.5 GCU on teleportation costs and would also generate a bit of extra GCU this turn (although that part would simply be part of the standard hunting swing).
What would be breaking the masquerade?
So in order to get the increase, we'll have to train Mami as a tandem caster first?
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No, I meant that I the GM have to consider. Not Kyuubey.
And the situation is not hopeless by the way. There are ways through this. Some of which might happen even without players helping. There always will be, but it's really about whether you can see the path and what you're willing to sacrifice.
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Not blaming you. We were waffling all the way to the end. Just hoping we can come to a decision a little earlier this time.
All right. Apartments are a go til the church is repaired, then.
OK, I'll leave Mami out of the 4-block. If I use the last slot for a double-dose of Seto, can we use that to simplify the transport out to the nomadic area for training? Also, what's the general increased cost of doing this training in the nomadic area?
Also, if we wanted to incorporate some hunting in with the training (to make sure DS doesn't get too low in the nomadic area, and to help test out tandem magic in combat), how would that work?
OK
OK. Do we want to make another push on this, or let it sit?
Yep. I actually made that change on a different config, but didn't use it on this one. Fixing it.
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If Mami's solo barrier enchantment is the same as a pair of barrier specialists casting in tandem, then I'd say that she should definitely be trained for barrier tandem casting. She might not be a "barrier specialist" as such, but she's close enough to count in my books.
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Looking at the map, it seems like a tandem teleport really would be long range enough to get us over to the peninsula.
Letting people who don't share a magic type with anyone generate tandem effects. Like if we needed Taura to make a giant broadcast, Kaoru to sing to a huge spread out force(though she might be able to tandem with Sayaka), or Akane to make a meal of a lifetime for someone really important or something.
Do we have any idea how much this would be, or would we need to bring in a professional to tell us.
Depending on how much it is, we might want to wait a turn or two to get the funds needed, since there's no point buying it if we can't use it.
That's not her barrier enchant, that's just the passive durability increasing enchant. Mami doesn't really have a traditional barrier enchant, I think.
inverted_helix said:
I assumed that inverted_helix meant that the vets are barrier vets, but even if we're talking about a passive durability enchantment ability that is available to everyone, Mami still needs to be trained in tandem casting so that she can tandem cast it with someone in order to improve the shields/armor.
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The quote being responded to was specifically about passive enchants. I do see your point though.
Conjuration, maybe?
Indeed, and this is all going to be complicated by the fact that we're going to be building what is going to look an awful lot like a compound for a militant cult on the church site, too, so we're probably going to need to bribe Kuybey extensively or do the work ourselves.
In fact, it's pretty fair to say that the construction is going to cost more than the land the building is on. The Sakura church is based on the floorplan of the Canterbury Cathedral, which is itself about 100,000 square feet. Obviously her church isn't itself nearly that large, but even at a more reasonable 15,000 square feet, which is sort of average for a Christian church, and given that the naive cost of construction is going to be about $125 per square foot, that values a replacement build cost of $1.9 million.
BUT WAIT! We want to build a giant basement for training, and to hide the fact that we're going to be sleeping dozens of magical girls inside the church, and generally making architectural changes that will have people asking questions. All of that will add a minimum of 50% to toe construction cost, for a total expense of $2.9 million, plus probably 50-75 cubes to Kyubey for all the memory-wiping he'll need to do. Again, this is all assuming we don't do it ourselves, but that's going to require expertise we don't have and a lot of labor that we kind of don't have time for yet, but if we do it ourselves we can probably cut half off the initial cost, and build the church for $1 million, plus a sizable bribe to Kyubey to make all the paperwork line up right and time and effort sending a couple of girls to school for architecture and structural engineering and to get contracting licenses.
So, all in all @Kinematics I don't think we're moving in any time soon.
On the other hand, what do you suppose is already on the land? If the existing wreck of a church has an existing basement, then we can use it as a training ground in the meantime, and strange noises coming from a haunted church is at least somewhat explainable, if we don't get too loud.
I propose 4 charms per individual grief cube. That comes out to (approximately) 50 charms per 0.1 GCU, if we go with the 128 cubes == 1 GCU conversion rate.
Agreed. In fact, doubling up on the thermoses should have a further benefit: you can enchant the inner thermos(es) to be even more insulating, thereby probably extending the preservation effect to >12-16 hours for two nested thermoses, or >24-30 hours if you nest three together.
If we do make another push at the courier business, then that's where the other 0.5 Mami should go this turn. We should also put $1-2000 into advertising, monogrammed business cards, that sort of thing.
From what I remember, that demon was considered fairly weak as Class 3s go: other than the stealth it was nothing special. Despite that it pretty well shredded Kyoclone and would have killed Seto without burning an omake bonus.
Our big problem is that since we don't go for the XCom lifestyle we're probably low on Elites compared to Nagoya. Elite Kaoru could change everything for us, as it would let us bring our experienced vets to bear, but without her Elite bonus I think we're going to have trouble taking on Class 3s directly.
Obviously we aren't going to be attacking Class 3s directly with just our own strength (although with the addition of tandem casting and spell anchors, even that would be much safer than our original foray). But when we talk about demon hunting in conjunction with Nagoya, who (presumably) have a lot of Elites and extensive experience hunting Class 3s, then picture isn't bad at all. At the absolute least, we should support any Class 3 demon hunting excursions with Kyoclone, our clairvoyant specialists, and a supply of tandem-cast healing/barrier spell anchors.
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Indeed, we got pretty lucky with the combo of healing and stealth. Both are great force multipiers, but the demon had no actual magical attacks or defenses to apply those force multipliers to. Consider what would have happened if the demon kept the stealth ability but instead picked off our fighters one by one with teleportation or a ranged magical weapon, or if it's healing was paired with barriers or teleports to let it stop our barrage long enough to regenerate fully and keep Seto away.
Still, If nothing else, we should certainly talk with Kyouko about sending kyouclone to mess with the class 3's and support the defenders/Nagoya. She's also especially useful because her "death" would not grant any new abilities to the class 3s.
Call the cost doubled for the long transit times. I'll let you count Seto's bonus teleportation as alleviating it when she's assigned then.
Hmm honestly it's a pretty minor time expenditure comparatively since you're already out there. Call it similar to urban cost for the people already out there since you're combining it with training as well. So like .5 vet for extra 2 cubes harvest from there.
Different types of effect. We're talking about passive strengthening of armor and shields that any girl can do. Rather than active barrier spells.
You'd need a professional estimate, and some sort of planning on what you want done.
It was about passive enchants. The active ones are a one time effect activated at will, whereas the passive is as long as it's held charged.
I don't mean that the building is like collapsed or anything. The primary structural components are solid. It kind of seemed like stone to me from the images we have of it, and that really doesn't decay in short order. Furnishings, windows, etc though are toast, but I kind of expect that the primary structure of a stone church will last a hundred years without maintenance.
Kyoclone was mostly okay, nothing truly dangerous.
Hmm might be okay for the single cast ones. And considering to significantly increase survivability you'd be using them pretty regularly just to be sure that you could have it active when it was needed. Since it's not a contingency spell that activates only when you'd actually be hit.
If we were completely rebuilding the thing from scratch, maybe, but we're not doing that. The superstructure is fine; stone doesn't really burn. We'll be replacing a lot of windows, and a lot of furniture, and maybe doing some remodeling and electrical work, but that's a long way from the stonework for an entire building.
And in fact, most of the building wasn't burned; it's just fallen into disrepair and overgrown. (Worse than seen in the show, given that it's 2.5 years since the point when Kyouko took Sayaka there.)
From what I recall from The Different Story, the church is set back in a wooded area. The front of the church is moderately concealed, but the back of the church should be completely private. We don't need to build a basement.
Doesn't need much. It's sort of like an orphanage.
Ehh.. Maybe. Again, most adjustments should be perfectly explainable. Maybe we redo the kitchen. Maybe we set up a lab as an educational training area. Maybe we designate a large room as a gym for physical workouts. It's not too hard to work around.
Some reference stuff:
Looks like a residential area to the far right, and some sort of large-ish utility house to the mid-right (next to the tower). And there's more stuff further back.
Residential building looks like it could have maybe 12-15 rooms, give or take (estimating from the perspective angle). That would extrapolate out to total housing capacity of around 50-60.
Along with an estimate of the size of the main chapel, the side building, and some extra for the outbuildings, your 15,000 square foot estimate for total size is not unreasonable.
Being unmaintained for nearly three years means it's going to be completely overgrown. Possibly damaged by animals and such. It'll be a ton of work to clean it, and a fair bit of money to furnish it. But not at the $3 million level.
Meguca labor should be able to handle most of the initial cleanup (and maybe pay a trash company to haul stuff away). Send Nagisa in to clear out any animal problems. After that, some professional work for electrical stuff, hooking the gas back up in the kitchen, replacing roof tiles, etc. And then furniture, and setting up the special areas (lab, gym, etc).
It might take a few months, and it won't be cheap, but it should be entirely manageable.
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Right. But this passive enchantment is one that can still be tandem cast, right? And Mami can be trained to do this?
We discussed enchanting metal plates with spells that are activated when the polyurethane coating is damaged. Is this doable with our current level of research, or would that require a new research task (Spell Anchoring Improved Duration Research, for instance)?
Yes, but may have to start assessing a minor cost on that for two elites needing to have time together each day before the hunters go out.
No not possible currently. The spell doesn't trigger instantly from the leak, your research line has basically been based on the fact that magic doesn't instantly leak. It won't trigger fast enough to be useful to the attack that hit your armor.
Gonna be honest, not gonna support a Tokyo campaign unless we have a gaurentee of a lot of support and gather more information about the situation.
As a reminder, this is what Kyubei had to say on the matter.
Grade 3 contracted are elites, IIRC.
In simple terms, our entire force projection is a drop in the bucket when compared only to the elites lost.
I am fairly convinced that even if we threw every Meguca we have at this problem (which we can't, because farming grief cubes.) we would not be able to clear Tokyo. Our girls deaths would be for nothing.
Basically?, super alliance or bust. Maybe we could get lucky and find a legendary meguca.... but I doubt it.
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That wouldn't be improved duration; that's sort of the exact opposite of improved duration in fact. What's being suggested here is more like making the containment enchantment weaker in a controlled way, in order to create a sort of reactive armor.
Something like Spell Anchoring Application: Reactive Shields/Armor. Would probably take a few months (more like 20-40% success probability per month), as you'd need to do a detailed study of the anchoring layer's failure modes, how those affect the resulting barrier spell, and work out an engineering solution such that the containment enchantment fails in the way you want, rather than the many ways you don't want.
Oh, and another thing we should probably consider buying, especially if we go for Class 3 hunting: helmets! Maybe gorgets too, so we can't be easily beheaded by a claw.
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It was fairly weak, and if we'd pierced the stealth field it would have been a fairly easy fight. However extremely poor luck in that regard meant that the fight was far more difficult than might be implied.
I think that the fact that we managed to win despite such a huge handicap means we'd be on pretty solid ground against most average class 3's, particularly with the addition of tandem casting.
So.. if Seto is along, cost goes back to basically normal? OK.
All right. I'll cap harvest at 4 cubes, since 1.0 elite and 1.5 vets are currently being assigned to it.
Two months ago we left it at roughly 0 DS, and last month we didn't hunt there at all, so it should be pretty well into the negatives (-5ish). Since it has a capacity of about 3, harvesting 4 cubes should bring it mildly back into the positive DS range.
It also doesn't help that we almost lost two elites again the equivalent of a newborn.
Elites are pretty much irreplaceable, and I am not at all convinced we can even make a meaningful impact. Gambling on always getting favorable terms of engagement is a really, really bad idea.
Edit: @Kinematics Not really willing to risks irreplaceable assets on conjecture. Vote to gather some actionable intel and we'll talk.
Elites are pretty much irreplaceable, and I am not at all convinced we can even make a meaningful impact. Gambling on always getting favorable terms of engagement is a really, really bad idea.
Edit: @Kinematics Not really willing to risks irreplaceable assets on conjecture. Vote to gather some actionable intel and we'll talk.
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Don't forget we can always pay Kyubey to assess a Class 3 for us; it's not like we're running low on cubes. The real problem is that we can't guarantee a 0% casualty rate against any given Class 3, and that means the casualties will rack up quickly, given how many of them there are.
As for Elites being irreplaceable... one of the big benefits I'd be hoping to get out of this Class 3 hunting deal is to acquire a number of Elite-potentials from Tokyo itself to train up in a safer area like Mitakihara.
This is assuming, of course, that we always manage to start the engagements on our terms (one at a time.) and that we don't hemorrhage elites faster than we can gain them (which would be all to easy considering they can individually have any number of bullshit power combinations.)
Assuming all that, and that the local Elites they are even interested (which is unknowable at this point), and we are willing to invest precious resources on diplomacy in a warzone.... Even assuming all that, whats makes you think NM wont try to annex everything they can?. I'm pretty sure they can afford to send out more diplomats than we can.
To put it simply, all we have to work with are rumors. We have no real idea about what is going on at the ground level. We have less military force total than only a portion of what was already lost fighting this battle, so cannot risk going in without a plan and backup.
One particularly bad battle could jeopardize a RL year of playing this game, because without elites, we have no punch. Might as well just become a vassal state at that point. On top of that, we went what, an in-game year or two with no casualties?, If we start hemorrhaging Meguca by the dozen it's going to crush morale and spirals will become problematic.
Charging in there like this is tantamount to assisted suicide. At minimum we need more intel to even start to consider a Tokyo campaign. And I would feel a fuckton better about it if we had about fifty elites (or it's equivalent) at our back. Temporary alliances are entirely viable.
Speaking of which, think we could negotiate sending a Meguca or two with the Nagoya expedition force as observers as we are considering the possibility of lending assistance?. At least then we would have some actionable intel. we only have one point of data in regards to the actual strength of a class three.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Even if we can't send in our girls to help, we can still provide assistance. Cash, cubes, research, canned magic... hell, even something as simple as playing vacation destination for girls who need to decompress, or just sending food could help. If Tokyo goes up, Japan dies.