Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Random stuff to spend money on.

1) Bluetooth cell phone headsets. Basically, hands-free communication for hunters, instead of needing to pull the phone out for each call. $25/each, roughly. $1500 total.
We would only need ~20 of these for the hunters, so this would be more like $500.

2) Landscaping/spring cleaning. Improvements for the house. Flower garden. Weeding. Repainting. Generally clean the place up, as it's undoubtedly gotten a little run-down over the last year or so. Make it look shiny and new. $2000 and labor. (Note: might delay this one a few months if we really are at the start of winter right now.)
We're renting apartments at the moment, so I don't think we have any gardens. And I dunno how painting would be handled under our current rental agreements (the apartment owner might be responsible). We could definitely decorate and buy potted plants, though.

Sports Day alternatives.

1) Party night. Rent an auditorium (or take over a small warehouse area for a rave), and band and/or DJ, with invites available to nearby schools. Not sure on cost.
This would probably be on the expensive side.

2) Movie night. Buy everyone tickets for one of the opening showings of the new Star Wars movie. Maybe $2000 to have the whole theater to yourselves, plus snacks and stuff?

3) Day at the Beach. Mitakihara is a coastal city. An afternoon to buy everyone new swimsuits, and a day at the beach. Guesstimate $20 per swimsuit on average, plus miscellaneous. $1500 total?

4) Museum day. A day trip to a local science or art museum. $2000 for tickets plus food.
I like these, although if it's winter then the beach would have to be held off for later.

Other ideas to spend money on:
1. We could purchase some raw materials and encourage people to use them for enchanting practice (as part of the "Fun with Magic" action).
2. School supplies
3. Bribes for diplomatic actions
4. Weights for training strength
 
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We're renting apartments at the moment, so I don't think we have any gardens. And I dunno how painting would be handled under our current rental agreements (the apartment owner might be responsible). We could definitely decorate and buy potted plants, though.
It's more for the house than the apartments. The apartments could do with a spring cleaning as well, though. Air everything out, beat the futons, etc.

This would probably be on the expensive side.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Still, it's a potential idea.
 
We would only need ~20 of these for the hunters, so this would be more like $500.


We're renting apartments at the moment, so I don't think we have any gardens. And I dunno how painting would be handled under our current rental agreements (the apartment owner might be responsible). We could definitely decorate and buy potted plants, though.


This would probably be on the expensive side.


I like these, although if it's winter then the beach would have to be held off for later.

Other ideas to spend money on:
1. We could purchase some raw materials and encourage people to use them for enchanting practice (as part of the "Fun with Magic" action).
2. School supplies
3. Bribes for diplomatic actions
4. Weights for training strength
We actually have two houses now, in addition to the apartments. They are both rentals, though.

Also, we probably do want everyone to have earjacks handy, just in case: remember the ambush?
 
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Alright thought about it IRT some more and run some more numbers.

My original thought was that IRT gave you about a 7.5% bonus when oscillating 0-10 demon strength as you normally do, I didn't consider that you could just decide to hunt to a higher strength for that same bonus. Though in fairness since rotating tactics maxes out at a 0-20 oscillation once you got to higher end you'd still be gaining more from this, it would just be a short run issue. A 0-13 oscillation with the current IRT numbers exceeds the value of a 0-20 oscillation with the original RT.

While I like the tradeoff aspects I don't actually want my playerbase to grief spiral. So here's what I'm going to do.
RT to .6 ratio +5% casualty rate; IRT .5 ratio +10% casualty rate.

Also the situation is grim to some degree, but it's a grim world, and exaggerating it really isn't helping you. You're in a tough spot, but not the impossible one you're making it out to be.
 
Assuming we pick up Spell Anchoring...


[] Research, Personal Enchanting Effects: How does the individual doing the enchanting affect the results? Do individual girls' skills play a role in the end result? Do their wishes affect things?
Cost: 3 Veteran +1 Green Meguca, 2 Grief Cubes; Chance of Success: 80%; Reward: Information about how the individual Meguca affects the result

[] Research, Effects of Enchanting on Technology: You already know at a basic level that enchanting boosts the properties of a material, but it's less clear how it affects something that's far more complex than its individual materials belie. You really aren't sure how this will turn out.
Cost: 2 months of 2 Veteran Meguca, 2 grief cubes, $1000; Chance of Success: 80%; Reward: Some knowledge of how magic and technology interact.

[] Enchanting, Secondary Properties: Further investigate just what determines what property gets boosted. Katsuko begs you not to let Keiko try hypnotism.
Cost:3 months of: 2 Veteran Meguca, 3 Grief Cube, $1000; Reward: Information on deeper effects of enchanting. Chance of success: 60%


1, 2, and 3-month projects. Month 1 takes 8 meguca, 7 cubes, and $2000. Month 2 takes 4 meguca, 5 cubes, and $2000. Month 3 takes 2 meguca, 3 cubes, and $1000.

Note that all of them have a chance of failure. 80%/80%/60% success rates.

I'd advocate for this over PvP training. We did our diplomacy burst last turn. We need to start leveraging the value of our group strategy. Right now we're mostly stagnant, which completely wastes the value of meguca who are not dying.

We really need to look into what we can consider an advantage for our current strategy. Higher morale and more experience and more shared knowledge ought to translate into something useful, but at present we seem to be worse off in virtually every possible way.
 
Alright thought about it IRT some more and run some more numbers.

My original thought was that IRT gave you about a 7.5% bonus when oscillating 0-10 demon strength as you normally do, I didn't consider that you could just decide to hunt to a higher strength for that same bonus. Though in fairness since rotating tactics maxes out at a 0-20 oscillation once you got to higher end you'd still be gaining more from this, it would just be a short run issue. A 0-13 oscillation with the current IRT numbers exceeds the value of a 0-20 oscillation with the original RT.

While I like the tradeoff aspects I don't actually want my playerbase to grief spiral. So here's what I'm going to do.
RT to .6 ratio +5% casualty rate; IRT .5 ratio +10% casualty rate.

Also the situation is grim to some degree, but it's a grim world, and exaggerating it really isn't helping you. You're in a tough spot, but not the impossible one you're making it out to be.
Sorry, it's mostly been me doing the whining, and I have been taking it way too far since the last update. I'm finding that I have a tendency to get a little over-dramatic online; I'll have to work on that.
(Where's that icon of Rarity whining? I think I ought to be putting that in my sig. :V)

The original IRT isn't actually all that catastrophic: it's just something that has no utility for us right now, until we can rack up a few more casualty modifiers.
 
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Assuming we pick up Spell Anchoring...


[] Research, Personal Enchanting Effects: How does the individual doing the enchanting affect the results? Do individual girls' skills play a role in the end result? Do their wishes affect things?
Cost: 3 Veteran +1 Green Meguca, 2 Grief Cubes; Chance of Success: 80%; Reward: Information about how the individual Meguca affects the result

[] Research, Effects of Enchanting on Technology: You already know at a basic level that enchanting boosts the properties of a material, but it's less clear how it affects something that's far more complex than its individual materials belie. You really aren't sure how this will turn out.
Cost: 2 months of 2 Veteran Meguca, 2 grief cubes, $1000; Chance of Success: 80%; Reward: Some knowledge of how magic and technology interact.

[] Enchanting, Secondary Properties: Further investigate just what determines what property gets boosted. Katsuko begs you not to let Keiko try hypnotism.
Cost:3 months of: 2 Veteran Meguca, 3 Grief Cube, $1000; Reward: Information on deeper effects of enchanting. Chance of success: 60%


1, 2, and 3-month projects. Month 1 takes 8 meguca, 7 cubes, and $2000. Month 2 takes 4 meguca, 5 cubes, and $2000. Month 3 takes 2 meguca, 3 cubes, and $1000.

Note that all of them have a chance of failure. 80%/80%/60% success rates.

I'd advocate for this over PvP training. We did our diplomacy burst last turn. We need to start leveraging the value of our group strategy. Right now we're mostly stagnant, which completely wastes the value of meguca who are not dying.

We really need to look into what we can consider an advantage for our current strategy. Higher morale and more experience and more shared knowledge ought to translate into something useful, but at present we seem to be worse off in virtually every possible way.
Maybe instead of these we should go for more tandem magic, plus fun with magic if we don't spend too many GCUs on wowwing Nagoya. Tandem magic plus spell anchors should synergize really, really well, including but not limited to better enchantments on our shields and armor.
 
Sorry, it's mostly been me doing the whining, and I have been taking it way too far since the last update. I'm finding that I have a tendency to get a little over-dramatic online; I'll have to work on that.

The original IRT isn't actually all that catastrophic: it's just something that has no utility for us right now, until we can rack up a few more casualty modifiers.
The original IRT was basically taking 6 months (from start to finish) to get us a 2 cube bonus, if we ignore the risk penalty entirely (or paid 10 meguca months). After that it was a minor bonus with a penalty that made it useless for us at this point in time.

So could someone with the time run these numbers?
NB: We're still running a 15% dispatch bonus.

Basic 0.66: 80.9 cubes, 20.5 meguca (1.5 elite)
Basic 0.60: 84 cubes, 21.0 meguca (2 elite)
IRT 0.50 (ignoring risk): 89.8 cubes, 22.5 meguca (2 elite)
 
What with Nagoya, we should definitely do PvP training.
I'm going to disagree with this, as well as the push to get the soul gem interrogation info. I think if we play into that, we're only weakening ourselves by spending efforts to be good at the things our group doesn't focus on, while then removing our ability to improve on things our group is good at.

In other words, don't play their game. Play our game.
 
Ok, the 0.6 RT is a much nicer situation now. I don't have the time to do a full analysis, but it'll pay itself off fairly soon. We can't afford to do the new IRT quite yet, but having the option open is nice for once we do get some more safety buffs.

I definitely agree with Kinematics, we can't afford to do a protracted PvP war, we need to focus on our strengths.

For those claiming that the $40k is useless, do consider that most of our jobs are ~$1.5k/megukamonth. Getting $40k in one swoop is equivalent to getting ~26 free megukamonths worth of work.
 
I'm going to disagree with this, as well as the push to get the soul gem interrogation info. I think if we play into that, we're only weakening ourselves by spending efforts to be good at the things our group doesn't focus on, while then removing our ability to improve on things our group is good at.

In other words, don't play their game. Play our game.
The soul gem interrogation info does potentially have other applications; we certainly don't want to use it for soul gem interrogations. It hints that Nagoya has done some basic research into the nature of soul gems, which could in turn hint at other topics, like suspending grief spiraling girls so they can be cleansed more reliably or cheaply.
 
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Just had a thought. One of the most problematic powers of Class 3s is the crushing aura of negativity that drains gems. We hold a partial counter in Kaoru's songs. We are about to aquire a technique to cast magic through objects.

If we set up an agreement to have Kaoru sing to Magocracy anti-C3 forces through enchanted speakers, we could probably get quite a lot in exchange.

It's not casting magic through objects, it's enchanting objects to have a magical effect.

We'd probably want to enchant like a cassette tape or something with Kaoru's song on it. Turn it on, and get the magic effect.

Need Personal Enchantments though which is why I have that first on the research list.

Tentatively I'm thinking when Seto is hunting provides 10 hunters teleport transport for free.

So basically break even at the pack level... based on my numbers below:

Hmm... can we split hunters in the same area between RT and IRT?

That's what I was thinking.

As a Solo Elite, Seto would get:
(urban) 6.6 x 1.15 = 7.6
(rural) 3.96 x 1.15 = 4.6

(All below done in urban territory)
As a Pair Elite, Seto would get:
Her: 5.28 x 1.25 = 6.6 (1 less than solo)
Elite Partner: 6.6 (equal to solo - so this is a loss, but allows reducing risk at a smaller loss)
Vet Partner: 3.96 x 1.25 = 4.95 (1 more than normal pair)

So in urban territory... in a pair with a vet she would essentially break even compared to a normal vet pair and her solo hunting... Well... unless we get more modifiers eventually.

However, as a Pack leader...
Her: 4.125 x 1.35 = 5.6 (2 less than her solo)
Vet Pack: 3.09 x 1.35 = 4.2 (0.2 more than normal vet pair, 1.1 more than normal pack)

So in pack hunting... if we are capable of pair hunting then it only really breaks even if Seto can do it for 10 additional girls. If we had to do Pack Hunting anyway, it would be break even at only 2 additional vets, but there isn't that much reason to do pack hunting over pairs.

Basically it would be one extra cube a month if Seto hunts solo in urban areas. But if she hunted in packs, and hunted to a higher demon strength... Might be possible to get more that way, but then we'd be under threat of class 3 demons appearing.

If you let Seto transport up to 12 girls in a pack, that would make Pack hunting half a cube better than pair hunting for vets with Seto leading them, and would be about perfect for overhunting our northern area...

Still a little inflexible... maybe she can also make Nomadic areas harvest like rural areasw/o teleport transport (for her and any one in her group -ie pairs/packs)?

That would mean we could use her Solo in urban areas and gain 1 extra cube harvested
Or use her leading a pack of 12 vets for 1.4 extra cubes harvested
Or use her to harvest Nomadic areas like they are rural areas (ie, Solo = 3.96, Pair hunting w/ vet = 5.5, etc)
Or if we are desperate enough to hunt above +10 Demon Strength we could use her to help hunt that high.

Note that as a normal pair vet gets us 4 cubes, a gain of one extra cube a turn basically saves us .25 meguca months...

Is that really an elite worthy bonus? Compare this to Kyouko's ability saving us... almost 1.5 meguca months.

But this is basically a very limited application ability, which is why I felt an additional bonus to combat would be flavorful and needed. Negating 40% of lethal hits to girls in her group - basically Seto provides a natural teleport evac chance for any combat group she is a part of

Is she going to get the evac bonus too?

While I like the tradeoff aspects I don't actually want my playerbase to grief spiral. So here's what I'm going to do.
RT to .6 ratio +5% casualty rate; IRT .5 ratio +10% casualty rate.

Hmm.... still possible to use IRT and hunt up to +10 DS with packs...

Ok, the 0.6 RT is a much nicer situation now. I don't have the time to do a full analysis, but it'll pay itself off fairly soon. We can't afford to do the new IRT quite yet, but having the option open is nice for once we do get some more safety buffs.

We can do the IRT with pack hunts and teleport transports (which actually make vet packs harvest equal to vet pairs w/o teleport),

I assume that they would need to be hunting in the same area as her, right? And does the 10 hunters include Seto? That basically works out to 2.5 GCU (or 2.75 GCU) per turn (on top of her normal hunting return of 5.95 GCU), which is quite nice.

I assume it's 10 additional hunters, it would have to be. And where do you get the additional 2.5 GCU? If they are hunting in packs, then Seto is also in the pack, so she get's her pack return not her Solo return. Look at my quote above for the break down of this bonus.

Cool! So would there be an extra cost to doing this? And how much would it improve the Protection% of each item thus enchanted?

I think we'd need to research Personal Enchantments first.

@inverted_helix Can we just do Tandem Casting now? (Like stacking stealth on a scouting mission) or do we have to actually practice that first?

I seem to remember 1 meguca month per 4 girls learning this? Is that right?

It's more for the house than the apartments. The apartments could do with a spring cleaning as well, though. Air everything out, beat the futons, etc.

We are renting the houses as well...
 
For those claiming that the $40k is useless, do consider that most of our jobs are ~$1.5k/megukamonth. Getting $40k in one swoop is equivalent to getting ~26 free megukamonths worth of work.

$40k is nice, but we can't use it immediately, so why not wait and trade cubes later when we have more cubes?

One of the things that is becoming clear is that they value money less than cubes because money is easy for them to get. The ratio is not going to change right away. Also, we should look into trading cubes to their vassals instead of the core group.

It's not that we shouldn't ever trade cubes for money, it's that this trade right now has no reason to do so.
 
For those claiming that the $40k is useless, do consider that most of our jobs are ~$1.5k/megukamonth. Getting $40k in one swoop is equivalent to getting ~26 free megukamonths worth of work.
But we can't take any of those people off jobs (trading money for meguca-months), so it doesn't really matter how long it would take them to earn that much unless you have something to spend the money on now.
 
Effects of new IRT results:

Using RT should give us a +3.8 cube haul.
Using IRT (to 10 DS) should give us a +9 cube haul.

Hmmm... we could do IRT this turn

North with 2 Elite Pairs, 1 Elite Pack (Seto), and 15 Vets Pack, with Teleport Transport (0.5 vets) for the 2 Elites and 5 vets not covered by Seto at a cost of 1.8 cubes... should result in ~72 net in the north, with +10 DS.

South with 4 vet pairs, should grant us ~14 cubes

Rural with 2.5 vets solo, grants 7 cubes.

-1 for Kyubey, gives a return of ~92 cubes

@Kinemeatics Am I missing something? I rounded a lot to make the math quicker in my head, but I think that's about right.

Costs us 3 elites and 22 vets.

After upkeep that leaves 2 elites, and 10.5 vets left right?

Personal Enchanting is 4 vets
Telepathic Defenses is 2 vets
Business is Business (to the Coalition) is 1 Mami and 1 vet
Join Imperium is 3 vets

That leaves 1 elite, and 0.5 vets.

We could put Taya on Dispatch duty, and get 2 vets back from upkeep, for 2.5 vets available for something. I guess 1 vet for our gossipmonger? and 1.5 vets for greif cube management for another +3 cubes.

That would completely restore our cube reserves, and that might help morale a lot...
 
Alternative I think is to continue with just RT and thus have enough girls to put together a scouting trip to Kofu (which is a major undertaking).
 
Currently straining on meguca-months. With the improvements to rotating tactics, we can now harvest a bit more in cubes, but that takes a commensurate increase in hunters to achieve. We need to balance that out with a solid improvement in hunting efficiency in order to have the meguca free to actually make use of those cubes.

We know that Advanced Detection will reduce our dispatch costs, so that we'll go back to 2 dispatchers instead of 3. We don't know how much it will increase our actual hunting rates. It's currently +30%. We can probably hope for at least a +40%, and maybe +50% if we're lucky. I'm hoping for the higher end as a reflection of the value of our overall strategy — lots of experience that isn't lost due to people dying, which means we can better apply what we learn over the years to future improvements.

Next month will mark the 2 year mark of us using Dispatch. I'd expect our dispatchers to be a lot better than most other groups' (and much more in tune with our hunters, who aren't regularly dying), even without the advanced training.

The current turn will require 21.0 hunters (2 elite) (basic RT). With our standard 30% dispatch, it would require 19.0 hunters (2 elite). With a 40% dispatch, it would require 18.0 hunters (2 elite). With a 50% dispatch, it would require 17.0 hunters (2 elite). This is all while using teleportation (but not Seto).

So basically, every 10% increase in Dispatch is -1 vet hunter required. A 50% dispatch bonus would drop our total hunter + support allotment below the 40% mark, which would be a major milestone.

I wouldn't be surprised if our advanced dispatch system is something that we would not be able to teach other groups who didn't have a year or two of continuous experience in standard dispatch methods.
 
Risk with above hunting plan:

Risk for Pack Vets = 10% (pack base) +10% (IRT) +5% (DS) -5% (vets) -13% (safety bonus) = 7% that needs to be covered by armor... hmm... did I miss something here?

I could have sworn that with 8% IRT I still had 2%... oh dang it... I misread my notes last time... sigh, can't do even pack hunting with IRT then...

Never mind I guess.
 
@Kinemeatics Am I missing something? I rounded a lot to make the math quicker in my head, but I think that's about right.
We don't have enough armor to do pack hunting to that extent. At best, we can cover 2 elites and 14.5 vets. Combined with the 2.5 vets in the rural area, and that's our 19 full kevlar sets. That combo will be able to hunt up to 7.9 demon strength, for 82.6 total cubes. No better than standard basic RT.
 
I'm hoping for the higher end as a reflection of the value of our overall strategy — lots of experience that isn't lost due to people dying, which means we can better apply what we learn over the years to future improvements.


Hmm. Extending this principle, we should be better at what we do per capita than other groups because our individual girls have been doing them longer and thus have better institutional memory.
 
why not wait and trade cubes later when we have more cubes?

One of the things that is becoming clear is that they value money less than cubes because money is easy for them to get. The ratio is not going to change right away. Also, we should look into trading cubes to their vassals instead of the core group.

It's not that we shouldn't ever trade cubes for money, it's that this trade right now has no reason to do so.
They definitely have a lot more money than cubes, but they're about to experience a supply shock in the form of vastly increased cube supplies. This will lower the price per cube, even if it still puts it at a very good trade for us, right now it's an amazing trade for us. The price probably won't go down to our earlier suggested rate of ~$1k, but it will go down, and I want to get this deal while it lasts. Unless they find some new way to spend grief cubes, they will get a surplus as soon as they implement RT up until they find new ways to spend them.

But we can't take any of those people off jobs
We totally can, it just costs us. More importantly though, it means that the next time we want to do something, we don't need to add more workers as soon. It doesn't immediately help us, but neither really do the cubes. Having lots of money means we can increase the stipend, buy new equipment/research materials, perform morale-raising events, lots of things.
 
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