- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need Culture to build a Hab and a Hab to build anything, so trading Economy for Culture speeds up our development some.
Knight of Dandriss: Stone and Steel
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
We need 25 Culture and 5 Econ to build a hab. We need 1 hab for every 4 other buildings. We currently have 5 buildings and only one is a hab, so we can't build anything else BUT a hab at the moment. Our econ income is currently high enough and the return rate probabilities are good enough that we can probably use this exchange to get a Hab next turn (instead of the turn after) and most likely still have the Econ to build a reactor the turn after. Our econ income is high enough that this shouldn't appreciably slow down our efforts to get a 4th reactor after that either, at which point we have a Reactor Block and the reactors' total- income goes from 8 Econ, 4 Science to 12 Econ, 6 Science.
So I take it the plan for the near future is to build towards a Reactor Block?
Reactor Block & Entertainment Complex block, then from there Hab #3 and Lab/Barracks/Factory + Network Center, then Hab Block, then we'll see where it goes from there.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Guys, just noticed something. We've got the option to use Culture influence as science influence for sociology research. Entertainment complex refinements are sociology research, as are hab refinements (I think). There's some potential for a quick upgrade to our mainstay buildings there.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given AN has said that buildings will unlock new options, i feel like it might be a good idea to at least grab the Factory sooner rather than later
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think the logic is most building costs are mostly culture and econ, so reactor block (12 econ, 6 sci) and entertainment block (18 culture) let us get into full builder modo.
Edit: the listed build plan finishes with:
Reactor block: 12 econ, 6 sci,
Entertainment block: 18 culture
Lab: 3 sci
Barracks: 3 mil
Factory: 3 econ
Network: 4 of our choice
Hab block: 6 of each.
That's a damn good springboard.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Here's the personal actions we've taken so far:
1:
[] Get to know people
[] Throw a party
2:
[] Throw a party
[] Solidify allies
3:
[] Study war
[] Seek allies
[] Hunting
4:
[] Throw a party
[] Study willpower
We keep using parties, but until we build this Hab and settle in a bit I don't think we'll have the extra influence with Samantha that people are looking for to automate parties. So I'll assume we aren't interested in chaining 4-5 together and going for automation.
We're studying Willpower here; we'll have to wait and see on the update what it says about stress. Supposing it looks tolerable, there's good potential to sustain our Study Willpower effort alongside alternating cube use to rush to our Willpower cap.
That would give us one action a year to work towards a goal. Perhaps four years if 16 is our cap and we don't get lucky. I'll go through and give comments on each option in this context.
[] Study war - Chance to advance Officer education
I think four years is a reasonable estimate for how long we'd need to get Officer IV. That would help ensure we attain General Officer as soon as possible if that's what we want to do.
[] Study politics - Chance to advance Politician education
Likewise, four or five years of effort should get us Politician IV and may unlock an advanced education trait. The improved Management should help if we decide to pursue General Officer, since Management was mentioned with that. It also has the advantage of giving a Primary and Secondary stat rather than a Secondary and Specialty stat.
[] Study <stat> - Chance to advance selected skill. Specialty stats are easier than secondary stats are easier than primary stats
I'm supposing we're studying Willpower in the context of these comments. I don't think studying two raw stats is to our advantage, since the stats we use most are covered by our education traits.
[] Throw a party - Hold a major social gathering
It's useful, but if we aren't going to automate it then we need to hold off doing it so often, in my opinion.
[] Seek allies - Look for people among the community and in the wider polity
This has potential as a step towards automating the party; it can lead to minor funding sources and increase our political stability. With more allies, the chances we need to dedicate personal actions to solving crises decreases and our chances of sustaining effort for automation go up.
[] Seek a husband - Among the nobility one's spouse(s) is of importance for establishing allies and pedigree
The consensus a couple turns ago was that it is too early. I still agree with that consensus. Transferring to a new settlement or attaining an advanced education trait are potential milestones after which we might decide we're ready to do this. We may want to find a way to convert Lustful if we're looking for the best possible political ally, though I suppose keeping it will make it very likely our kids get Attractive. Personally I'd rather find a Genius/Iron Willed person for a chance at an heir which has multiple +3 stat traits.
[] Hunting - On Dandriss hunting animals with war machines is considered fair to all parties involved
I don't believe we can reasonably do this until we have capped our willpower and, preferably, advanced our Officer trait and/or acquired a Large Mech.
So, personally, I'd like to do one of the following:
5:
[] Study willpower
[] Seek allies
6:
[] Study willpower
[] Seek allies
7:
[] Study willpower
[] Solidify allies
8:
[] Study willpower
[] Throw a party
5:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
6:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
7:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
8:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
5:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
6:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
7:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
8:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
Should something come up that demands a personal action, in the first plan I would prefer to keep the willpower action, while in the others I would prefer to drop it.
1:
[] Get to know people
[] Throw a party
2:
[] Throw a party
[] Solidify allies
3:
[] Study war
[] Seek allies
[] Hunting
4:
[] Throw a party
[] Study willpower
We keep using parties, but until we build this Hab and settle in a bit I don't think we'll have the extra influence with Samantha that people are looking for to automate parties. So I'll assume we aren't interested in chaining 4-5 together and going for automation.
We're studying Willpower here; we'll have to wait and see on the update what it says about stress. Supposing it looks tolerable, there's good potential to sustain our Study Willpower effort alongside alternating cube use to rush to our Willpower cap.
That would give us one action a year to work towards a goal. Perhaps four years if 16 is our cap and we don't get lucky. I'll go through and give comments on each option in this context.
[] Study war - Chance to advance Officer education
I think four years is a reasonable estimate for how long we'd need to get Officer IV. That would help ensure we attain General Officer as soon as possible if that's what we want to do.
[] Study politics - Chance to advance Politician education
Likewise, four or five years of effort should get us Politician IV and may unlock an advanced education trait. The improved Management should help if we decide to pursue General Officer, since Management was mentioned with that. It also has the advantage of giving a Primary and Secondary stat rather than a Secondary and Specialty stat.
[] Study <stat> - Chance to advance selected skill. Specialty stats are easier than secondary stats are easier than primary stats
I'm supposing we're studying Willpower in the context of these comments. I don't think studying two raw stats is to our advantage, since the stats we use most are covered by our education traits.
[] Throw a party - Hold a major social gathering
It's useful, but if we aren't going to automate it then we need to hold off doing it so often, in my opinion.
[] Seek allies - Look for people among the community and in the wider polity
This has potential as a step towards automating the party; it can lead to minor funding sources and increase our political stability. With more allies, the chances we need to dedicate personal actions to solving crises decreases and our chances of sustaining effort for automation go up.
[] Seek a husband - Among the nobility one's spouse(s) is of importance for establishing allies and pedigree
The consensus a couple turns ago was that it is too early. I still agree with that consensus. Transferring to a new settlement or attaining an advanced education trait are potential milestones after which we might decide we're ready to do this. We may want to find a way to convert Lustful if we're looking for the best possible political ally, though I suppose keeping it will make it very likely our kids get Attractive. Personally I'd rather find a Genius/Iron Willed person for a chance at an heir which has multiple +3 stat traits.
[] Hunting - On Dandriss hunting animals with war machines is considered fair to all parties involved
I don't believe we can reasonably do this until we have capped our willpower and, preferably, advanced our Officer trait and/or acquired a Large Mech.
So, personally, I'd like to do one of the following:
5:
[] Study willpower
[] Seek allies
6:
[] Study willpower
[] Seek allies
7:
[] Study willpower
[] Solidify allies
8:
[] Study willpower
[] Throw a party
5:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
6:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
7:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
8:
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
5:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
6:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
7:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
8:
[] Study willpower
[] Study war
Should something come up that demands a personal action, in the first plan I would prefer to keep the willpower action, while in the others I would prefer to drop it.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The idea is to secure strong income and be able to capitalize on many of those options while still building up rather than doing one or two and not developing further at the same time.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, we're already doing it this turn so it makes sense to do it next turn with the cube. The turn after it'd be the third turn doing it so it'd likely see some bonus and it would support use on the fourth turn with the cube.
Ah, I think I added a year in there I shouldn't have with the Willpower training. 7 would be the last turn we do it, maybe?
It's far from imperative that we sustain the effort we're beginning on willpower training here, though.
Maybe this?
5: (cube activated)
[] Study willpower
[] Seek allies
6: (cube deactivated)
[] Study politics
[] Seek allies
7: (cube activated)
[] Study willpower
[] Study politics
8: (willpower should be capped now)
[] Study politics
[] Solidify allies
9:
[] Study politics
[] Throw a party
Waiting a year between consecutive seeks and the solidify isn't ideal, though; it could be better to cut Study Willpower on 7 and add one more year of cube use on the end.
Mostly, I theorize some protective effects from adding in Study Willpower on both years we use the cube and years we don't, but I acknowledge it's speculative and could easily be wrong.
I found it kind of "huh" that it went through without cube use also doing so, but it's not wasted at the moment, if you're right that willpower is useful for stress management.
After all, if that's the case, stress - and thus how much willpower we already have - is a limiting factor in how often and safely we can use the cube.
Probably not the most efficient use of actions, though.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But the whole point of taking the cube is that we desperately need to cap our willpower as soon as possible, isn't it? Well, this does that.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Best guess is that it'll be either completely impossible or extremely difficult to gain willpower on a first-year roll, maybe 10% (I don't know why I have to keep repeating that Willpower is specifically mentioned to be the hardest type of stat to raise). Even with continuous use bonuses at maximum, I'd put it at no better than 40% in a given spent action with no cube.
If we're not using the cube and synergizing two-year training (and don't think I didn't notice your automatic assumption that we're never going to do a two-year cube run), I'd say it's a massive waste of possible personal actions.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The way I see it we're already wasting actions by flitting about at random. I can agree to no turn 6 Study Willpower if it's not found to be productive in these two uses, though. Supposing we aren't capped after turn 7, I might support a turn 8 cube activation in exchange for you supporting us doing some sort of focused/consistent action plan.
As to the automatic assumption, well, it was a genuine bias I suppose.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
The first few turns are over. We're not flitting randomly from action to action anymore. Consistent action plans and action economy is now a thing, this turn just happened to have been poorly thought out for action value.
As to your preplanning, it's hardly fair to me (and the not-all-that-small faction that supports a 2:1 cube ratio along with me) not to consider the possibility that the turn we won't be studying will be turn 7.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, I was doing it from my perspective and only tempering it enough that it might get a majority. Perhaps I should've been more clear about that. With a 2:1 cube ratio, though, it makes yet more sense to Study Willpower on each turn, supposing we don't get stress indicators from it this turn. I don't really think I could be persuaded to an activated cube on turn 6, though, for all that it may potentially get a majority of voters.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Do you believe that if we were to study any other stat, that we would be given some kind of notable stress check? Because if you don't, there's no reason to assume that training one particular stat is any more stressful than training another.
Honestly, this past turn your side of this argument has pointed to 'I'm tired after a six-part 15 personal decision year (with two major battles) that added a full year's fourth personal action (train willpower) in six months time' as evidence of the cube causing undue stress. I'm going to have to assume that you're going to be too afraid to synergize willpower training with the cube if AN so much as mentions she lays in bed too long at year 5 start.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's not so much that the cube causes the undue stress, it's that it reacts poorly with undue stress. I'm worried about Willpower causing a stress check because of people's theories on how we train it - by pushing ourselves towards uncomfortable situations. Yes, though, perhaps the cube has been too much of a poster child for the stress itself, rather than focusing on the stress being a problem for the cube.
No, I'll hold out for stronger evidence than that; a mention of the willpower training specifically causing stress or else multiple stress indicators like we had last turn.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Yo Ekans, just a heads up, but...
We're off schedule a bit now. Didn't want you to get too surprised later.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
This is true, and it's even something I agree with. However...
These are also true.
Currently I'm placing a higher value on having a strong foundation for development and the income necessary for explosive growth over the additional options that certain buildings unlock.
I believe that many buildings, not just the factory, have unique and valuable functions and we want to profit from these opportunities as soon as possible. It just so happens that the best way to unlock all of these opportunities means being patient and ignoring the temptation until we're in a better situation.
Trying to unlock some of these opportunities early would come at the cost of delaying our settlement's total growth, and that means delaying other types of buildings and missing out on those opportunities.
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You're misunderstanding. Network Center + Lab/Factory/Barracks/Entertainment Complex = 12 of each from the Hab instead of 6 of each. It's that good.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I wouldn't say he's misunderstanding. I'd say he's underestimating. It's initial description implies that hooking it up to a reactor block with a lab built would provide that +4 bonus he mentions.
It's just that the hab kinda... Cheats? Since its +1 to anything, all 4 types of influence can be boosted.
Also, the 12 of each bonus is very idealized. Practically speaking, it won't happen for awhile. The build order for after hab 3 is fairly contentious, and the network won't receive full benefit until almost everything is built.