Stop: Stop
stop @Ekans Ekans Ekans has been issued a 25 point infraction for thread disruption.

thread policy People who post messages that solely consist of saying that they no longer enjoy the thread and will be leaving will now be infracted for thread disruption. This does not mean that you cannot post a message that contains such sentiment, but if your post contains nothing beside it (such as criticism or an explanation) you will be infracted.
 
[stop=Stop]@Ekans Ekans Ekans has been issued a 25 point infraction for thread disruption.[/stop]
[alert=Thread Policy]People who post messages that solely consist of saying that they no longer enjoy the thread and will be leaving will now be infracted for thread disruption. This does not mean that you cannot post a message that contains such sentiment, but if your post contains nothing beside it (such as criticism or an explanation) you will be infracted.[/alert]
Slight problem: Ekans Ekans Ekans has never done that. NavySeel has done that, Ex3 just responded to them. Look:
Right I'm not posting here again, I am done, this just isn't as good.

The last time I felt like this was Age of Sigmar.
Oh my god, shut up.

Literally all you have done in this thread is bitch about it. You're into the WH40K part from the previous incarnation, fine. Don't rain on everyone else's parade. You have contributed 0 constructive criticism, and lots of salt. Keep it to yourself if you don't have anything helpful instead of repeatedly saying "I'm done, this sucks" then coming back again just to complain more. Learn not to throw a fit and turn other people's fun into your pity party.

EDIT: Especially when it's literally a single turn in, you whining tantrum elemental.
They responded rudely, but that's under Rule 3, not thread disruption. On the other hand, NavySeel actually did the thing you're talking about. I think you mistakenly infracted the wrong person. Maybe be more careful next time?

UNRELATED
That also wasn't a player decision.
Yes it was. We had the option to try sorcery, summon demons, and I think one other option, but we choose to only use the sword. It wsa an actual vote, I read it two days ago.
 
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Personally, I also think that, if high risk, high reward tactics always break the quest, that's a flaw that needs further work. Balance is always tricky, and kudos to AN for doing as well as he does, but it shouldn't be on the players of a game to intentionally avoid breaking it, no effort made in design to avoid break-ability.
Continually choosing high-risk high-reward options "breaks the quest" because it forces AN to choose between escalating endlessly (due to our rewards) or just having us die (due to the risks). If we die, either the Quest ends, which is bad, obviously, or we get thrown on a bus and wake up thirty years later, which is really annoying for a whole host of reasons.

Like, if we're constantly going to fling ourselves headlong into the heart of the fray, either we're going to have a very short Quest, we're going to go full Gurren Lagann and escalate to the point of absurdity, or we're going to have some sort of bizarre staccato narrative interrupted every few years by either a change in character as we get ourselves killed or by an extended period of hibernation as we recover from crippling injuries.

That's not a problem with mechanics, that's just a problem with player choices.
In this case we have a starting character with starting stats and a mech in her first taste of reaver combat grossly outnumbered by a bunch of psychotic murderhobos with big knives that our character realizes are basically non-threats. The risk to us, personally is relegated to whichever reaver has their suspected one gun that can actually do any damage.
[] Pressed on on her own to the rest of the people (Fast, risky to self)
There is an explicit risk to ourselves that gets greater if we choose this option. I'm not quite sure what you're saying here, but it seems to be orthogonal to the point I'm trying to make. Can you clarify?
 
Information: Official Staff Communication
They responded rudely, but that's under Rule 3, not thread disruption. On the other hand, NavySeel actually did the thing you're talking about. I think you mistakenly infracted the wrong person. Maybe be more careful next time?
official staff communication No, @Ekans Ekans Ekans was infracted for their post. It is vanishingly unlikely that the staff will mistakenly infract someone. Furthermore, it is against the rules to argue with a moderator's decision in the thread itself. Please make a thread in Staff Communication if you wish to do so.
 
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That's not a problem with mechanics, that's just a problem with player choices.
If, inherently, it is untenable to have the players repeatedly take high-risk high-reward choices, then the obvious answer is don't balance choices around risk/reward. AN chooses to offer us these choices, and while I find the quests enjoyable, if having these choices is allowing the quest to break, and break badly, then that can be reworked on the QM level. Now, if you are saying that players are managing to make high risk/high reward plans without QM/mechanics help, that's another matter.

Also...

Continually choosing high-risk high-reward options "breaks the quest" because it forces AN to choose between escalating endlessly (due to our rewards) or just having us die (due to the risks). If we die, either the Quest ends, which is bad, obviously, or we get thrown on a bus and wake up thirty years later, which is really annoying for a whole host of reasons.

There is such a thing as non-lethal penalties. Get maimed, lose an arm, lose soldiers, whatever. The risk doesn't have to be death. "double your soldier count or lose half of them" vs "gain 20% soldiers" is high risk/reward vs low risk/reward and is not "die for taking the risk".

Now, I'm not saying there is an easy, obvious fix, here. But there are ways to address such things on the mechanics/QM level, even if the player base is legitimately strongly inclined to pick risky but rewarding everytime. (Incidentally, in Into the Amber Age, the player base was rather loath to risk overspending resources, so I'm not convinced the players are as prone to that as you are suggesting. EDIT: 'that' being taking the high risk, high reward path.)
 
Violation of Rule 5 - Don't make it harder for us to do our jobs
[information=Official Staff Communication]Furthermore, it is against the rules to argue with a moderator's decision in the thread itself. Please make a thread in Staff Communication if you wish to do so.[/information]
No it's not. Unless it's one of those rules that's not actually written down anywhere, like no Gamergate stuff, but if it is I haven't heard anything about that.
 
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Stop: Stop
No it's not. Unless it's one of those rules that's not actually written down anywhere, like no Gamergate stuff, but if it is I haven't heard anything about that.
stop @notanautomaton - Stop.

This post and your post before it are clearly challenging staff decisions within the thread. Contrary to your assertion, it is a Rule, and it is written down somewhere.

For the benefit of yourself and all other thread participants, please be aware that this rule is part of SV's rules (which may be found here: Announcement - Community Compact, Policies and Staff List/Changelog), in particular the second example:
5. Don't make it harder for us to do our jobs.
You can't do anything that, for whatever reason, gets in the way of the Staff doing our jobs or which could cause trouble for Sufficient Velocity that we would have to clean up.

That means, for example, that you can't:
  • Create multiple accounts without staff permission;
  • Encourage other users to break the rules, or challenge a staff action (outside of the normal appeals process or a complaint in the Management forum);
  • Attempt to get around the rules and the staff's enforcement of them;
  • Use Sufficient Velocity to plan or otherwise participate in any kind of behavior that might be against the rules or law elsewhere.

All Staff Actions may be queried through use of the official channels we have provided to you, such as the Questions & Review board. They may not be queried within the thread that the staff action occurred because it is both a disruption itself, and disrupts the thread by refusing to let conversation pass on from the action.


Carry on, posters.

(NB: This has been part of staff policies since 2014: A new policy and a request from the staff)
 
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So... what diplomatic things are we looking for if we succeed in saving these civilians? Still trade relations, or is there something more creative we're interested in?
Reavers might care about the narrative of the refugees and their hero, so I don't know how safe they will be as a trade caravan.
 
So... what diplomatic things are we looking for if we succeed in saving these civilians? Still trade relations, or is there something more creative we're interested in?
Reavers might care about the narrative of the refugees and their hero, so I don't know how safe they will be as a trade caravan.

Steady supply of exotic nomad goods is huge
 
Steady supply of exotic nomad goods is huge
I hate to bring it up again, but a yearly convoy of exotic goods straight to our personal stocks would be a huge boon for automating the party.

Ah, but I'm not certain if nomads have good luxury comestibles like Indigo Hammer does.
 
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I hate to bring it up again, but a yearly convoy of exotic goods straight to our personal stocks would be a huge boon for automating the party.

Ah, but I'm not certain if nomads have good luxury comestibles like Indigo Hammer does.
Probably not true consumables, but as party props or even exotic fashions? (Tailored some for more Owlish tastes)
Talk of the nobility
 
2.3
[X] Pressed on on her own to the rest of the people (Fast, risky to self)

"Captain, a request to aid civilians has been made. I will break away from this fight to engage any enemies independently. Please assist in finishing this battle then join me," Ella said over the radio. The company commander was more experienced anyway, so it wasn't like she was depriving the men of her command. She just wouldn't be able to support them or them her until they rejoined.

Reavers 34 + 40 = 74
Nomads 85 + 30 = 115
Infantry 97 + 32 = 129
Ella 66 + 34 = 100

Fortunately the entire break away operation went smoothly as the reavers had to change their stance - namely those on jetbikes had to change their patterns to be able to bring the heavier weapons they had slung on the underside to bear, but the beam weapons capable of doing significant damage to her armour mandated longer pass times which caused a terrible toll to be reaped upon their forces as the nomads and the infantry took advantage of this. Ella took a bit of scoring to her armour from beam weapons and the psychic flames the aliens sometimes conjured up, but the damage was primarily cosmetic as she waded through the lines at full speed, guns blazing. The thrill of actually kicking loose and being able to push her machine - and herself - was liberating and exhilarating, and being able to leave the troops behind in a mad dash was entirely worth it in her opinion.

Reavers 49 + 40 = 89
Nomads 28 + 27 = 55
Ella 19 + 34 = 53

Her arrival at the other battlefield was considerably less triumphant than her exit from the first one, as it was obvious that the rest of the nomads were considerably less well off than their warriors, and that they were expecting her. With less volume of fire, her first act when shoving through the tangle of stranglevines that had stood between her and where her sensors indicated the fight was to get a face full of alien energy weapon. The damage was nowhere near as bad as it could have been, but several of her main sensors were knocked offline and a breach was opened up in her primary armour. The sensation she got of molten metal dripping on the inside of her mech from her MMI link was peculiar and unpleasant to say the least, particularly since the phantom sensation was focused around her face. Still, even just her arrival was important, changing the tempo and flow of the ongoing battle.

Surveying the battlefield as she acquired targets and kept moving so as to try to avoid getting shot again, Ella found it sickening yet somewhat expected. As was typical of the reavers, they had been setting up some sort of sadistic play by targeting the larger animals of the nomads, pushing the warriors present into a circle to protect their civilians, a wall of dead roachrhinos their last bastion against the aliens, but also a convenient obstacle course for those on foot to run around on, jumping and leaping from the ruins of the howdahs and saddles on the enormous herbivores, blades flashing into the defenders, an attacker occasionally dancing into the inner circle to strike a single target before leaping away, mocking laughter at their impotence as protectors. It made Ella's blood boil, and she answered with the thunder of automatic EM weapons and a launch of thermobaric missiles for area denial purposes.

Reavers 54 + 40 = 94
Nomads 44 + 27 = 71
Ella 98 + 34 - 5 = 127

Alien flesh burned as her missiles caught a group she had figured would dodge - she guessed that they misjudged their ability to advance rather than retreat - and her cannons knocked two jetbikes out of the air in short order. Her war sirens bellowed, a mechanical wail of the hungering damned, and she began to circle the remains of the encampment, her larger guns booming for those on the outside and her MGs firing quick, precise bursts against those reavers that were trying to still attack the civilians. While this mostly meant not shooting because of all of the civilians in the way or who were backstops, it did mean that the act of using the civilians as human shields instead of dancing across their heads left them vulnerable to getting mobbed, and at least one of the reavers was literally torn limb from limb by an outraged group when it moved just a little too low and slow. Ella also got a somewhat forest scrambled contact over the radio about the other group having been finished off. She was fairly certain that the enemy also got their own communication that the other group had failed.

Ella (Willx2) 2 + 16 + 10 MMI = 28

The sudden feeling of vertigo and wrongness that assaulted Ella caused her to nearly blackout then and there, but whatever was happening was... was... she had no experience for this, for everything falling away into confusion and... and so many reavers! They were everywhere! She had to... to... this was a... what was it?

The crunch of a mech hurling itself violently to the ground face first sort of knocked some sense back into Ella as she partially realized that she had been subjected to some sort of psychic assault. Nearly overwhelming terror and anger clawed at her consciousness, the end to unleash everything she had available on the enemy all around, but a cold, clinical part of her - no, not part of her - noted that this didn't make sense and that she was likely having false information fed to her in an attempt to turn her guns on the civilians. Panic and bloodlust seized her over the cold objections and she fired everything she had... straight into the ground, which was why she had pitched in face first to the ground, so she couldn't fire on the civilians.

Reavers 98 + 40 = 138
Nomads 99 + 27 = 126

The haze of whatever was done to her faded away as the remaining reavers left, soon enough replaced by the phantom agony of dozens of alarms from the damage she had done to herself and the parting shots by the remaining jetbikes. This might have to send her mech off to the nearest settlement with a proper vehicle foundry to do the repairs on this one. At least she could still walk, and with some effort she picked herself back up. The diagnostics quickly came back that the majority of the damage was to her armour and weapons systems - the missile racks were almost completely trashed -, but motive systems were almost entirely intact. That was something at least.

It only took a few minutes for the first of the nomads to arrive on their fleeter mounts, follow shortly after that by the rest and your soldiers, but there was already an immense amount of wailing from the casualties. The reavers, as always, were sadistic and brutal with a flair for targeting those whose deaths or maiming would cause the most despair and damage to a community. The defenders had obviously been ravaged, but elders, parents, and children had all been cut down, leaving behind those who would feel their loss most keenly. The only grim satisfaction that could be had was the numbers of reaver dead, which was several dozen along with nearly a dozen downed jetbikes. The combination of surprise and cross fire had inflicted a heavy toll on the usually casualty resistant aliens. While the corpses were already rotting - some even called it evaporating - at an accelerated rate and would leave only half-crystalline bones by the end of the day, the amount of tech that could be salvaged was considerable.

Of course, the far more pressing kind of salvage was of the situation and the human cost, with the man who had encouraged her to go to the aid of the civilians exemplifying that aspect as he rode up to her. Pushing back the war mask he had been wearing to reveal an elongated, blue-grey face set in a grim expression, he saluted her and said, "Thank you. It is worse than I feared, but without you I dread to think of the damage that would have been done even in victory. My people mourn today, but I will ask your name so that we might celebrate your assistance."

Checking over her systems, Ella sighed at the fact that the little pop up screen that would allow her to project her face to the outside world for situations like this was broken and she said over the far more mechanical external speakers, "Let me begin by apologizing for not speaking face-to-face right now, but the damage I took is preventing me from doing so. As for my name, I am Knight Ella Stone, assigned governor of Razorleaf Meadows. I was coming to greet you..."

The man nodded in understanding and said, "Well that you did. I am Diamondback Argo Lee, which is... bah, I will explain it later. Roughly speaking, I am in charge right now, although not by choice." His frown deepened at the end as he glanced over at the mourners and people sorting out the wounded and dead. A few soldiers had clearly offered assistance but were being gently asked to focus on security. Cultural norms you had to guess.

Impressions (Chax2) 63 + 28 = 91

"While we will obviously help how we can here and now, I must ask if there is any way we can help you more substantially once we return to base. Food? Shelter?" Ella asked.

Argo looked out over the devastation and scowled before he just sort of slumped and said, "Even if the souls of the dead were beyond you, I would still ask you to bring back our herds. Too many of our animals were slaughtered by the pale demons and we are in a bad way now." After a moment he added on, "I will have to consult with everyone, but we will probably accompany you back to at least set up camp in the shadow of your settlement for the time being, if for nothing else for security purposes. As for shelter, that is... possible but will require further discussion with my people." He then eyes all of the animal corpses and adds on, "Food may not be necessary for the moment, but perhaps assistance with cleaning the carcasses properly will be needed. That or assistance with rounding up any of our herds that may have fled, although that may not be a task you are well suited for."

Making a sort of bow at the hips in an approximation of a head nod, Ella said, "I will consult with my own people as to the skills of those involved."

Inwardly there was a bit of a problem she was already seeing though, which had to do with the reaver remains and bits of tech laying around. Anna had a standing bounty and strict laws regarding any sort of remains from the reavers. The amount recoverable here was immense - as in big enough that despite the needed repairs this whole expedition was likely to be a net financial gain - but that in of itself was a problem since the black market prices on reaver artifacts was astronomical. While a careful recovery of all the gear was needed to make sure that they got it all and that no one slipped away with anything they weren't supposed to, if her soldiers were focused on other things then stuff would be overlooked and "overlooked".

Then again, considering that the nomads had emerged to an extent as a rejection of what they saw of as a corruption of morals due to an obsession with material goods - at least according to the diplomatic files - telling her troops to go scavenging for material goods might also piss away some of the good will earned. How valuable that good will was in comparison to Anna's goodwill and the financial compensation... ehh... something to be weighed.

Also to be weighed in Ella's mind was the possibility of a few reaver items being "overlooked" by herself, either for sale on the black market or for her own personal purposes.

The focus of her men was to be...
[] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[] Dead animal butchery (improves nomad economic situation)
[] Animal wrangling (potentially greatly improves nomad economic situation, potential complications if your men aren't up to the task)

Reaver artifact security is...
[] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
[] Standard (the normal protocols for this sort of thing with minimal hounding)
[] Lax (allow a certain degree of laxity in protocol so that your own theft will be unlikely to be noticed)
 
[X] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
 
[X] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)

No way in the Warp are we letting Prefall Eldar Tech into the black market.
Also, Anna might have contact with the Exodites with those laws
 
[X] Dead animal butchery (improves nomad economic situation)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
 
The focus of her men was to be...
[X] Animal wrangling (potentially greatly improves nomad economic situation, potential complications if your men aren't up to the task)

Reaver artifact security is...
[X] Standard (the normal protocols for this sort of thing with minimal hounding)

you can never have enough goodwill i always say.
 
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[X] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
 
I'd say strict if we focus elsewhere, standard if we focus on recovery of the tech.

I mean, standard is standard for a reason. This isn't a particularly unusual situation, so there's no need for unusual protocols.

I'd only say strict if we're focused elsewhere to increase the yield.


This:
[] Dead animal butchery (improves nomad economic situation)
[] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)

Or this:
[] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[] Standard (the normal protocols for this sort of thing with minimal hounding)

But not this:
[] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
 
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[X] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)

No way in the Warp are we letting Prefall Eldar Tech into the black market.
Also, Anna might have contact with the Exodites with those laws
There's no Warp, Eldar, or Exodites, so the existence of that agreement is in question.

[X] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)

Leaves us strong arming the nomads in to trade partners by giving them food now for trade later.
 
[X] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)

Yay early bandwagon!
 
Logical

[X] Dead animal butchery (improves nomad economic situation)
[X] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
 
Isn't Anna's goodwill basically the only thing Ella had going for her in the beginning?

[] Reaver artefact recovery (more alien items are recovered, possibly burn some of the goodwill with the nomads)
[] Strict (maximum recovery of items and minimal leakage to the black market, potentially irritate soldiers)
 
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