Kristanna's Integrity + Specialty rating is going to make that idea difficult.
In the Mind of a Green Sun Prince (Exalted/Nasuverse)
- Thread starter Walker of the Yellow Path
- Start date
I don't see how Wits would apply.
- Location
- Spain
Yes. And Kiritsugu is pretty weak socially. Manipulation3 + presence 1. Pretty weak. Even with a stunt and a excellency, we only have 10 dice. And i would prefer to minimize mote usage.
We can add three dice form the specialty if we use threats instead of deception, but then she can apply her own integrity specialty as well.
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Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
Interrogation, then killing her and coming back as her double is the asnwer in my opinion.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
For most mages, reinforcement is a Wits + Occult roll, with varying levels of efficiency depending on how skilled you are (UBW end Shirou's Reinforcement is as efficient and useful as a Lunar Excellency, for example, and he's one of the masters of the craft). This changes when you're creating an artificial Mage, and integrate Reinforcement as a baseline capability in all Combat Homunculi. To a Homunculi, it's simply flexing your muscles with some magic added.
Might result in Ilya dead before we can get to her.
Would it work against us pretending to be Justeaze and acting in the best interests of Einzbern family? I'm not that familiar with exalted rules. Basic idea is: pretend to be Justeaze. The cover story is something like this: Grail is hopelessly corrupted, which Kiritsugu discovered. The only thing he could think of, was to summon the creator of the ritual, Justeaze. He died in the resulting destruction, leaving "us" hopelessly confused and alone. It took us some time to reorient ourselves in the modern world and get to Germany. We now need to talk to Einzbern family, because they are in big trouble, as is, potentially, the world.
This, at least, should get us past the wards, I think.
Yeah I could see how that song would piss off Kiritsugu although Azzaria would have probably disliked it as well if he actually paid attention to the lyrics.
By the way I have to questions:
1. Why does the Church's rites/sacrements etc... hurt demons? Does that mean that they actually worship Sol Invictus (in this story anyway)?
2. How would Azzaria react to Shirou's (apparently) inevitable Reality Marble? I mean as another author once put it, when he wrote something similar:
So are you planning on showing it as something like that or just have them take it in stride?
Edit: Just to be clear I am not saying that Azzaria or any circle of demon would look or think of Shirou as a potentially Nascent Primordial, rather just going for that level of WHAT THE FUCK!!!?
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There are charms that could enhance anything we do. Malfean is all about commanding others while SWLIHN has all sorts of mind-reading/manipulating charms. Ofcourse that would not work with any deception where we pretend to be someone else since most of those effects are obvious.
Might want to consider going more deeply to SWLIHN anyway eventually given what we saw in Shirou? I mean the "wholeness rightly assumed" path might be able to fix things (get rid of the mud faster/easier, etc).
Eh, probably be weirded out a bit that a human can do such a thing. I doubt he would feel anykind of religious shock or anything though.
Might want to consider going more deeply to SWLIHN anyway eventually given what we saw in Shirou? I mean the "wholeness rightly assumed" path might be able to fix things (get rid of the mud faster/easier, etc).
Eh, probably be weirded out a bit that a human can do such a thing. I doubt he would feel anykind of religious shock or anything though.
More food for thought:
1) Unless I am strongly misunderstanding, pretty much all humans have reality marbles, they are just too similar to the world's and undeveloped to be actualized in any way. Wouldn't that mean that nasu!humans are sorta Gaia's demons?
2) Shirou couldn't replicate Ea because it was BS and because it was Ea specifically, not because of special materials. Him interacting with demonic swords would certainly be quite interesting.
3) Reality Marbles can only be deployed for short time because the world exerts pressure on them, trying to crush them. So, if taken to a place with no such pressure (space, wyld), would Shirou be able to maintain his RM indefinitely? Something to investigate for sure
I also expect Shirou to be a prodigy with a sword. You know, Shirou exalting at some point, as a solar, would be fun to see, and would certainly add to family dynamics.
(Azzaria explains the nature of the Yozi to Kiritsugu.)
Kiritsugu: So, they're Reality Marbles
Azzaria: Reality Marbles? I've never heard the term before, though I never delved that much into sorcerous knowledge, beyond what any demon knows.
Kiritsugu: It's a form of magic in this world. You temporarily replace the world around you with your inner world, the manifestation of the deepest parts of your soul, changing the nature of the world.
Azzaria: ... So, you're saying that having an 'inner world' is a normal thing among the spellcasters of this world?
Kiritsugu: Not really. Reality Marbles are mostly limited to demons, though a few have developed theirs enough to do so as well. It requires that the person understands the world in a much different way than a normal human. A kind of deep rooted insanity, if you will.
Azzaria: *In shock* ... It's an entire world of Primordials!
Even now, gods and elementals (and probably demons) can't do anything to attack Yozi or Primordials.
Does this mean that, if Shirou (after developing his reality marble) goes to Creation, no god could attack him, because he'd count as a Primordial?
Kiritsugu: So, they're Reality Marbles
Azzaria: Reality Marbles? I've never heard the term before, though I never delved that much into sorcerous knowledge, beyond what any demon knows.
Kiritsugu: It's a form of magic in this world. You temporarily replace the world around you with your inner world, the manifestation of the deepest parts of your soul, changing the nature of the world.
Azzaria: ... So, you're saying that having an 'inner world' is a normal thing among the spellcasters of this world?
Kiritsugu: Not really. Reality Marbles are mostly limited to demons, though a few have developed theirs enough to do so as well. It requires that the person understands the world in a much different way than a normal human. A kind of deep rooted insanity, if you will.
Azzaria: *In shock* ... It's an entire world of Primordials!
Something to ponder.
Even now, gods and elementals (and probably demons) can't do anything to attack Yozi or Primordials.
Does this mean that, if Shirou (after developing his reality marble) goes to Creation, no god could attack him, because he'd count as a Primordial?
Eh, not really. Maybe GSPs (before they go full spirit of living world or whatever), but the primordials basically created permanent and vast worlds full of sentient and permanent life, and their current prison is basically absurdly immense. Reality marbles are impressive for a mortal? Heck yeah. Comparable to the primordials. No.
Regardless, as a first circle Azzaria would be unlikely to know enough about ancient lore connect the dots between the two anyway. At best, he could compare it to a world Kiritsugu might create in his soul if ESs custom charms are used (or if Kiritsugu goes to Essence 6) and marvel that Shirou can emulate that without an exaltation.
- Location
- Canada
Not necessarily. The Churche's sacraments could just be more powerful against Exalted!demons because they are designed to work against inhuman things.
Space won't work because Gaia's conceptual reality extends out into space for at least as far as one AU, if not farther. if it didn't, no one would be able to survive on the ISS or the Moon (and that last one was a close call).
The Wyld, on the other hand, would definitely work. Just observing the Wyld Shapes it according to human principals, having a Mage with a fully realized Reality Marble and the will to use it would let you spam UBW for as long as you please. of course, the place is really nasty on the mind and body, and that's without taking into account the natives, who really won't like you screwing with their perception of reality and turning their world into fields of swords.
I don't think so. For that matter, Shirou, at the moment, is a human(oid) with an inner world. Until / unless he develops his Reality Marble to the point where it would be more fair to say that Emiya Shirou is a Reality incarnated as / incorporated in a human(oid) body, he's not going to be similar to Primordials, I think.
He's more of a what's it called? A Fetish Soul or something like that.
It might depend on the distance. ISS is within the magnetoshpere, and Moon might be a part of a joint RM. And as to deep space probes... Well, some laws might be the same even outside Gaia, like gravity and such.
Well, if, and that's a big if, we take him there in his process of developing his RM, I think we should probably be able to defend him.
- Location
- Canada
Eh, you still have to worry about things like Wyld mutations and insanity. As an Exalt, we're somewhat resistant to Shaping, but Shirou wouldn't have any protection unless we learned and used charms that would make the place we train in unsuitable for RM training anyway.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
I've updated the Equipment list with all the stuff Kiritsugu brought with him.
The observed space of Gaia could extend into infinity without conflicting with what we know about the sentient planets and such. It's just that what normal humans observe exists within it, while the magical Moon, Mercury and so on exist on separate planes, possibly with their own view of the universe.
- Location
- Spain
Shame, we don't have ludicrous ammounts of C-4.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
Not even close.
No one would compare a human with a Reality Marble to a Primordial. They don't register on the same scale, and a Reality Marble could definitely be made through Solar Sorcery, maybe even Celestial if you stretch it.
Reality Marbles are odd, at best.
This is ignoring that the Geas prevents the gods from attacking Primordials because the Prinordials created them and they built it into the gods. Shirou is not part of that Geas.
He's really not. If anything, he's closer to a Raksha spending a metric ton of Glamour to warp the world temporarily.
Compared to a Primordial, he's less than chaff.
Extremely unlikely. Everywhere you can travel normally is a part of Gaia's Reality Marble, you'd need to use Magecraft or something to actually escape it, and then you die from the Grain.
Chances are that gravity is something common to the various Reality Marbles, but it's not guaranteed.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
....
I knew I forgot something. Kiritsugu even mentioned it in a previous post.
Could we make him resistant somehow? Not taking into account how risks are expected when one tries to ascend into a cosmic principle of... Swords probably? Maybe heroism. Otherwise we could maybe instead develop a charm that rejects Gaia's influence in an area of effect, without creating any other influence there, thus allowing Shirou to practice.
I am mostly basing it on how in Notes, where Gaia is dead, the reality is still kinda the same.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Can we get off the Shirou's Reality Marble topic? It will come up in time, but I've not seen any votes on the situation at hand.
- Location
- Spain
We can get more info out of an interrogation session that with pure deception, i think. if we ask too many sensitive questions while disguised we may alert her. And while she has a good integrity, i doubt she has more than willpower 3.(For a MDV of 5) So we can probably break her with some work. And if we can't, well, we can probably do it anyway. The only critical info is knowing where they have Ilya anyways.
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Sure, sorry about that.
As I said, I want to try subverting the homunculus. If possible, I would try getting Ilya without killing Einzberns, as that would lose us their very useful knowledge. Playing the "grail is corrupted" card might work, if done smart enough, I feel.
On the other, unrelated topic: what s crying or tracking magic do we have access to? I want to try finding and reviving Arturia.
RexHeller
Title Incoming. Please Hold.
- Location
- Somewhere else.
The Einzberns know the Grail is corrupted at this point. They just don't care.