- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Yeah. Howling Lead Devils is really good for that kind of thing. We should think about picking it up.
Thousandfold Typhoon Hand is a good prereq to have anyway.
In the Mind of a Green Sun Prince (Exalted/Nasuverse)
- Thread starter Walker of the Yellow Path
- Start date
Yeah. Howling Lead Devils is really good for that kind of thing. We should think about picking it up.
Thousandfold Typhoon Hand is a good prereq to have anyway.
Major GSNF enhanced artifact gun in one hand, Star-Piercing Spear of Glory in the other (accept no lesser substitutes). That would be pretty cool.
Anyway I have a question. World-Weathering Incandescence destroys things damaged with GSNF. It says that if you hit an object with GSNF and pay an extra mote (and do atleast 1 damage), the object continues to burn from within and takes 1 level of damage per tick. Theres also mention about how the destruction is much faster if the infernals essence rating is greater than the resource rating.
But whats the limit of the first one? It says the duration is permanent. So lets say Kiritsugu learns that charm (essence 2 so he can get it immediately), reaches the Einzbern castle, and then strikes the wall of the castle with WWI. Does the entire wall eventually disintegrate in green radioactive fire given enough time. What happens if Kiritsugu does that to all 4 sides of the castle?
And heres another question. Can Kiritsugu learn sorcery? I mean as I understand it, you just need to finish the 5 stations, after which you are ready. The White Treatise says that those who self-initiate can sometimes look back and realise they finished the lessons unintentionally.
Humility, Tutelage, Journey, Fear, Sacrifice.
Given the life Kiritsugu has led, the argument could be made that Kiritsugu has passed all those, and just needs to get the sorcerous enlightenment of (Yozi) to be able to use sorcery. And if this is Creation or related, then Salinan working is still in action which means its possible to learn spells even without a teacher. Right? Pity theres no past life rating to serve as a teacher.
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
You probably don't want to hit the castle that your daughter is being imprisoned in with World Weathering Incandescence. 'The wall' is not a distinct entity from 'the rest of the castle,' so I'm pretty sure the fire would spread and soon the entire place would burn down.
That would probably be bad.
Also, I'm pretty sure Infernals can learn sorcery spontaneously? I think I remember that being in the book somewhere.
That would probably be bad.
Also, I'm pretty sure Infernals can learn sorcery spontaneously? I think I remember that being in the book somewhere.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
You still need to pass the Trials, and you still need a tutor for spells.
So no, other than the fact you don't need an Occult rating and the bonuses/maluses given by a Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi) charm, there's nothing different between a Solar and Infernal learning Sorcery.
Not without Sorcerous Initiation of (Yozi), I think. And you'd need to buy it again for each level of Sorcery past Emerald Circle.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Remember, an Object is an item that is "Smaller than a Yeddim." (corebook pg 213) Which means WWI can destroy something about the size of an elephant. I think. Not sure how big Yeddim are.
Destroying a Castle is definitely out without an Essence 5 upgrade.
And Infernals learn Sorcery through the Sorcerous Initiation of (Yozi) Charms. You don't even need Occult dots for it! (You should have Occult dots, but it's not a requirement.
Destroying a Castle is definitely out without an Essence 5 upgrade.
And Infernals learn Sorcery through the Sorcerous Initiation of (Yozi) Charms. You don't even need Occult dots for it! (You should have Occult dots, but it's not a requirement.
A google image search for "exalted yeddim" shows one with a person on its back - it's a bit bigger than an elephant, I think, so yeah.
- Location
- Spain
You can't destroy buildings with that charm, no. But is still a pretty good one. Allows to desintegrate almost any vehicle, for a start.
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Oh, well there's no problem then.
Let's punch a wall on fire or something! And maybe learn Magma Kraken.
Why? Because Magma Kraken, that's why.
I checked that actually in the core book, and it says that "wall" qualifies as an object.
"Objects" and "structures" are things that are in a permanent inactive state. If it can't take actions on its own, it's an object or a structure. Things smaller than a yeddim that a player can reasonably consider a single item are "objects"—including walls, small buildings, belts and bags of marbles, but not collections such as "the swords those guards are holding." Things larger than a yeddim are "structures" and are treated as a collection of smaller components, such as walls and windows
So the whole castle would be a structure, but a single smaller component such as a wall or window would be an object. Which is why I used an example of using it on all four sides of the castle. It won't destroy the entire castle as a structure, but it would destroy all 4 walls around it right?
You do need to pass the trials yes, but my point is that Kiritsugu may well have done so already in his life. Sorcerers can look back and go "yeah, thats where I learned the station of humility". The tutor also does nto necessarily have to be a sorcerer. Any lesson that teaches you about how the world works is sufficient. Theres also the Salinan Working which is designed to retain and teach sorcery to everyone.
Once you have finished the 5 trials, you can buy a sorcerous enlightenment of Yozi (for Yozi for which you have excellency), and thats it.
Has Kiritsugu experienced Humility, Tutelage, Journey, Fear and Sacrifice. (not sure if the sacrifice can be accidental, but the others certainly can).
PS. The Yozi initiations give bonuses depending on the yozi. Malfeas makes all damaging spells do 50% more damage, but forbids spells that bring peace or calm. Forget "Obsidian Butterflies". "Death of Brass Wasps" is much better.
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- Location
- Spain
No, the sacrifice must be done specifically to learn sorcery.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
...What? I wasn't talking to you, why are you quoting me?
Not to mention half of what you said was in the post you quoted.
At any rate, I'd personally say Kiritsugu has passed every Trial but Sacrifice. Sacrifice can be "accidental", but only in that the Sorcerer doesn't need to go "I'm letting this go for Sorcery", they do need to be aware that they have a choice; To give something up to advance their knowledge, or to not.
Kiritsugu has not done so.
- Location
- Spain
He needs Tutelage too, although he can get that easily in malfeas.
- Location
- Canada
Yeddim are the same size as Tyrant Lizards, which are tyrannosaurus expies. that should give an idea of their size...
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
I disagree. I'm pretty sure his entire ordeal with the Grail was an act of tremendous, personal sacrifice.
I won't spoil it because that scene is powerful as all get out, but that was a whole bunch of sacrificing he was doing, there.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
He did not sacrifice anything for the pursuit of knowledge.
He does not qualify for the last Trial.
Because we were talking about the trials and quoting that seemed fitting. My apologies if that offended you.
Thats what I was wondering. I mean you could argue that letting his wife die for power could be viewed as a sacrifice maybe? Theres that moment where Irisviel talks about leaving and abandoning the Grail War. And Kiritsugu makes the conscious choice to stay and sacrifice his wife Irisviel in order to get the grail. Sacrificing loved one for what he believed was a great magical power could in my opinion qualify, since it taught him about sacrifice and made it clear to him what achieving great power sometimes requires.
Yeah, but it does not specifically have to refer to formal tutelage of sorcery.
White Treatise on Tutelage Trial:
Sorcery requires knowledge of many secret things. This includes more than formal study. A would-be sorcerer also seeks the mystic import of their concepts and experiences. A general might see the ebb and flow of his troops in war and understand how Essence flows through Creation; the glassblower might comprehend the shaping of Essence into fragile yet potent patterns as he creates his masterpiece. (and so on)
Then theres the Salinan Working, which basically built in the foundations of sorcery into the universe, and guarantees that tutelage is always available.
[Salinan] Working transcribes that spell somewhere in the natural fabric of the sorcerer's surroundings. It may appear locked within crystals nearby, waiting for the light of a Celestial anima to project an image of that formula onto a nearby wall. Or perhaps the spell appears as markings on the feathers of a breed of birds nearby, which will forever breed true this trait, waiting for a sorcerer capable of understanding the spell to come along, notice the pattern and intuitively piece its secrets together.
In my opinion, as a mage who studied magic (if of a different kind), Kiritsugu has almost certainly has passed this trial long ago. Though like the sacrifice question above, thats ultimately for the GM to decide I guess.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
Not offended, confused. You didn't direct that post towards me at all (to the point of more or less repeating what I'd said), there didn't seem to be a reason to quote me.
My opinion is that it doesn't qualify.
Now, when the subject of Sorcery is raised and if he hasn't done the Sacrifice, he could give up his lingering affection or grief for Iri. That would count, in the context of "do this to learn Sorcery" specifically.
Sacrifice is not a sacrifice for knowledge. it's sacrificing something that holds you back. In this case, abandoning irisiviel for the wish totally counts IMO.
Fear he totally has, what with facing the horrors he did. humilty he also has, because he knows that there are beings greater than him. journey, the seeking and traveling to discover that there is more than what you know, and tutelage by having and accepting the teaching of a mentor.
Then sacrifice something that holds you back from reaching for more.
Fear he totally has, what with facing the horrors he did. humilty he also has, because he knows that there are beings greater than him. journey, the seeking and traveling to discover that there is more than what you know, and tutelage by having and accepting the teaching of a mentor.
Then sacrifice something that holds you back from reaching for more.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
[X] Stay silent and watch what he does.
Kiritsugu's walk takes him out of what he classifies as the business and commerce area of Fuyuki, and into the residential areas. You can tell the change when it happens. Rather than tall buildings, now there are houses and apartments, no more than 3 stories high.
He comes to what looks like an estate common in some of the West. Expanding horizontally, with wooden walls, and elegant but simple decorations. A sign of wealth in countries with little land.
It seems wasteful to you, but the methods of humans have always been strange.
However, the most obvious sign of importance of that house was the pair of black suited guards at the front gate. They peer at Kiritsugu from behind their glasses, nod, and open the gate for him. Kiritsugu nods back, and walks in, where another man checks him for weapons, and then escorts him to a room where on one wall, a large box is placed, with a black screen and some nobs on the side. Sitting on a mat in front of the box is an old man, with short white hair, dressed in a simple kimono and drinking from a pot of tea. There is a second, empty mat next to him.
Kiritsugu nods. "Raiga Fujimura."
"Kiritsugu Emiya." Raiga returns the nod. "Sit with me. The match is about to start."
One of the black suited men turns a nob on the box, and it lights up, revealing it's purpose as a scrying artifact, which Raiga appears to be using to watch a pair of large man wrestle.
Humans really are odd.
Kiritsugu sits down next to him, and they both watch the match, commenting ever so often. You can tell that Kiritsugu doesn't enjoy watching it, but he sees the banter with Raiga as a way to ingratiate himself with the old man, and as a way of confirming his identity with the man. You and he can both tell that several of Fujimura's questions and comments are ways of ascertaining Kiritsugu is really Kiritsugu, and that Raiga's men in the room have concealed weapons.
Both of you also know that this man would not have let Kiritsugu meet him if he wasn't mostly convinced he was the real deal.
So Kiritsugu answers as he should, and by the end of the match, the guards have relaxed their guard.
"So, Kiritsugu. Why exactly do you need that gun?"
Your Prince takes a sip of the tea (It's actually pretty good!), and responds. "It's a backup weapon. The Thompson I use normally was lost in the Fire, along with most of the other equipment I had on me. While the rest I have extras of in my estate..."
"I'm the only one who has a backup Thompson." Raiga finishes. "I will return the Thompson, but I want to know what it's for. I've had some of my gunsmiths look over the gun, and they've noted some odd runes and designs in the barrel and hammer. I didn't take you for a superstitious type, but it is an odd weapon for an assassin, especially with the modifications."
Kiritsugu is silent. "It has special use against those of the darker side of the world. It is meant to be simple, hardy, and powerful enough that they bring out their strongest defenses."
Raiga smiles. "I thought it would be something like that." He motions to one of the guards, who brings forward a wooden box, and hands it to Kiritsugu.
Your Prince opens the box, and sees both the gun, and a small key. "Thank you."
Raiga nods. "One last question. What happened to your wife and assistants?"
Kiritsugu stops. You feel a vast wave of guilt and self hatred wash over him, and try and play some kind of happy tune to cheer him up. "Dead."
Raiga lowers his head. "I'm sorry."
Kiritsugu simply stands and bows. "Thank you for having me."
No one stops Kiritsugu from leaving.
------|------
In the ashen ruins of the Grail Wars final battle, Kotomine sorts through the remains cocoon of brass and hair.
Despite what Gilgamesh had said, the strange thing disturbed him. It reacted somewhat to the Black Keys, and analysis with both Magecraft and the Church's own sensing rites revealed it to have spiritual similarities to both demons and the strange horrors summoned by Caster.
He frowns, and gathers the pieces of the cocoon, storing it in a black bag. Whatever was in it was not a holy thing. If he had found this before the war, he would have decided to hunt it down. But now....
Now he would wait. If the thing revealed itself, then it was a danger to the secrecy of magic, and he would be obligated to kill it. If it did not, then it was merely another monster in a world full of them.
He shouldered the bag, and began to walk. He would examine each piece in Tohsaka's workshop. It was much better supplied than his own.
He would rather not be caught unprepared.
------|------
Kiritsugu walks only a short distance, coming to a similar house to Raiga's, but obviously less expensive or expansive. He uses the key provided to him, and walks into the house.
He removes a floorboard and takes out a case of bullets that match the gun. He begins to count them, eventually coming up with twenty seven bullets. You notice that each are marked with an small image that resembles a knotted rope.
Origin Bullets. A stray thought from Kiritsugu reveals their purpose to you. One use Artifacts which damages enemies by causing their active Magic Circuits to be cut and then shoddily reattached. An incredibly dangerous and potent weapon. You're not sure how it would effect Essence Users, but you kind of don't want to.
He puts his bullets back, and then walks to one of the closets, grabbing a grey longcoat and suit from the closet, and changes into that. He finishes, and then sits on the floor, staring at the lone decoration in the room. A picture. Him, standing with a white haired beauty and a girl who looks very similar to her mother.
Irisviel and Illyasviel. His wife and daughter.
That same sadness and self hatred wells up within him.
[ ] Write-in.
Kiritsugu's walk takes him out of what he classifies as the business and commerce area of Fuyuki, and into the residential areas. You can tell the change when it happens. Rather than tall buildings, now there are houses and apartments, no more than 3 stories high.
He comes to what looks like an estate common in some of the West. Expanding horizontally, with wooden walls, and elegant but simple decorations. A sign of wealth in countries with little land.
It seems wasteful to you, but the methods of humans have always been strange.
However, the most obvious sign of importance of that house was the pair of black suited guards at the front gate. They peer at Kiritsugu from behind their glasses, nod, and open the gate for him. Kiritsugu nods back, and walks in, where another man checks him for weapons, and then escorts him to a room where on one wall, a large box is placed, with a black screen and some nobs on the side. Sitting on a mat in front of the box is an old man, with short white hair, dressed in a simple kimono and drinking from a pot of tea. There is a second, empty mat next to him.
Kiritsugu nods. "Raiga Fujimura."
"Kiritsugu Emiya." Raiga returns the nod. "Sit with me. The match is about to start."
One of the black suited men turns a nob on the box, and it lights up, revealing it's purpose as a scrying artifact, which Raiga appears to be using to watch a pair of large man wrestle.
Humans really are odd.
Kiritsugu sits down next to him, and they both watch the match, commenting ever so often. You can tell that Kiritsugu doesn't enjoy watching it, but he sees the banter with Raiga as a way to ingratiate himself with the old man, and as a way of confirming his identity with the man. You and he can both tell that several of Fujimura's questions and comments are ways of ascertaining Kiritsugu is really Kiritsugu, and that Raiga's men in the room have concealed weapons.
Both of you also know that this man would not have let Kiritsugu meet him if he wasn't mostly convinced he was the real deal.
So Kiritsugu answers as he should, and by the end of the match, the guards have relaxed their guard.
"So, Kiritsugu. Why exactly do you need that gun?"
Your Prince takes a sip of the tea (It's actually pretty good!), and responds. "It's a backup weapon. The Thompson I use normally was lost in the Fire, along with most of the other equipment I had on me. While the rest I have extras of in my estate..."
"I'm the only one who has a backup Thompson." Raiga finishes. "I will return the Thompson, but I want to know what it's for. I've had some of my gunsmiths look over the gun, and they've noted some odd runes and designs in the barrel and hammer. I didn't take you for a superstitious type, but it is an odd weapon for an assassin, especially with the modifications."
Kiritsugu is silent. "It has special use against those of the darker side of the world. It is meant to be simple, hardy, and powerful enough that they bring out their strongest defenses."
Raiga smiles. "I thought it would be something like that." He motions to one of the guards, who brings forward a wooden box, and hands it to Kiritsugu.
Your Prince opens the box, and sees both the gun, and a small key. "Thank you."
Raiga nods. "One last question. What happened to your wife and assistants?"
Kiritsugu stops. You feel a vast wave of guilt and self hatred wash over him, and try and play some kind of happy tune to cheer him up. "Dead."
Raiga lowers his head. "I'm sorry."
Kiritsugu simply stands and bows. "Thank you for having me."
No one stops Kiritsugu from leaving.
------|------
In the ashen ruins of the Grail Wars final battle, Kotomine sorts through the remains cocoon of brass and hair.
Despite what Gilgamesh had said, the strange thing disturbed him. It reacted somewhat to the Black Keys, and analysis with both Magecraft and the Church's own sensing rites revealed it to have spiritual similarities to both demons and the strange horrors summoned by Caster.
He frowns, and gathers the pieces of the cocoon, storing it in a black bag. Whatever was in it was not a holy thing. If he had found this before the war, he would have decided to hunt it down. But now....
Now he would wait. If the thing revealed itself, then it was a danger to the secrecy of magic, and he would be obligated to kill it. If it did not, then it was merely another monster in a world full of them.
He shouldered the bag, and began to walk. He would examine each piece in Tohsaka's workshop. It was much better supplied than his own.
He would rather not be caught unprepared.
------|------
Kiritsugu walks only a short distance, coming to a similar house to Raiga's, but obviously less expensive or expansive. He uses the key provided to him, and walks into the house.
He removes a floorboard and takes out a case of bullets that match the gun. He begins to count them, eventually coming up with twenty seven bullets. You notice that each are marked with an small image that resembles a knotted rope.
Origin Bullets. A stray thought from Kiritsugu reveals their purpose to you. One use Artifacts which damages enemies by causing their active Magic Circuits to be cut and then shoddily reattached. An incredibly dangerous and potent weapon. You're not sure how it would effect Essence Users, but you kind of don't want to.
He puts his bullets back, and then walks to one of the closets, grabbing a grey longcoat and suit from the closet, and changes into that. He finishes, and then sits on the floor, staring at the lone decoration in the room. A picture. Him, standing with a white haired beauty and a girl who looks very similar to her mother.
Irisviel and Illyasviel. His wife and daughter.
That same sadness and self hatred wells up within him.
[ ] Write-in.
Hmm, interesting.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
We need to make him remember to pick up Shirou at the hospital or Kirei will pick him up, and shirou will become a mana battery for gilgamesh.
ebolasos
Hiiii please be my friend!
- Location
- Down under
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
I want to save him, before that happens, and if it is possible the others orphans as well, because what happens to them is too horrible and we need to stop it.
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[X] "So what do you intend to do now, Kiritsugu? Go after your daughter? Or perhaps check up on the boy from before? Or something else? I might normally make a suggestion, but I confess that I remain somewhat ignorant of your overall situation."
We need IC info to advise, and we can only read his surface thoughts, so we should ask.
We need IC info to advise, and we can only read his surface thoughts, so we should ask.