If I understand correctly, causality violations are not allowed, but time dilation, and forward-only time travel might be possible.
In the Mind of a Green Sun Prince (Exalted/Nasuverse)
- Thread starter Walker of the Yellow Path
- Start date
I think thats basically it? You don't do wishes anymore, just perfectly ordinary actions that somehow place people in debt.
In any case, it means that Kiritsugu cannot direcly enhance his kids with VEE.
Time presumably? Without the "cheat" of an exaltation, it would take quite a bit of time to learn essence use/sorcery. It likewise takes time to learn magic. To learn both might mean you never master neither.
Also, pretty sure the origin bullets only worked because they were made of Kiritsugus ribs (he had some odd origin or somesuch that made it possible?). Also, Shirou might well grow up totally differently given that his father presumably won't drop dead from the curse, which means UBW is by no means a certainty.
- Location
- Canada
Anyone can make an Origin weapon. the important part is having an origin that's possible to be weaponized. Kiritsugu has a dual origin of "Binding" and "Severing", which lets him make bullets that cut apart and then glue back together his enemies magic circuits, resulting in massive magical backfires. in theory, making an Origin Sword out of parts of Shirou is possible, but also the kind of thing that only a sociopathic "anything to get what I want" mage would do. after all, you can't make much more than a fruit-knife out of a single rib, making a sword would probably require an amputation.
Awakening essence is possible via charms, I am pretty sure, so that doesn't take much time. After that I assume that the study of both methods of making reality your b*tch would at least crossover in some respects. Plus, I expect that the whole is more than the sum of its parts, ie by learning both they'd be able to attain more than by learning each path alone.
He had a double origin of severing and binding. Wiki tells me this:
Now, riddle me this: if Shirou does something similar, ie creates an object (a sword) that utilizes his Origin (Sword) to its fullest extent, what would happen? It would be a sword that preserves Shirou's soul (UBW). At the very least it might result in a sword that can transform into any other sword Shirou have seen. That's at minimum.
Now UBW similar to one we see in games, yes, but I think that some form of UBW is unavoidable if Shirou works at it, as he already had Avalon implanted into him five days ago.
There's an Infernal-aspected version of Soul-Enlightening Beneficence (which makes a mortal Enlightened/an Essence user), yes.
- Location
- Canada
fairly certain it took a few months for his Element/Origin (and as a result his mentality) to become Sword.
also, do you really think that Kiritsugu will be fine with deliberately turning his son into a suicidal martyr? that very much sounds like something that he'd try to counteract if he found out it was happening.
Now, Shirou's already been burned by the flames of angra-mainyu, so his getting a reality marble is guaranteed, but I don't think that Kiritsugu would help him get one that would turn him into the Shirou "I live only for the happiness of others" Emiya we know from Canon.
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
Regeneration. Or you call a Neomah and add demons flesh to the mix, infusing the Sword Origin with Vitriol and other niceties. Really, everything in Malfeas is an ingredient, and practically every Yozi has at least one sub-soul who is a smith. Not Ligier because you don't bother him with such a minor project (and really, that's a waste of his time).
As an exalt, Kiritsugu can awaken the essence in others basically instantly. However learning sorcery and martial arts and so on takes a lot of time. Whether theres any commonality between magic and essence use is up to the GM I guess.
Right, you meant creating a weapon based on Shirous own origin. I guess that would result in a super-sword of somekind then.
Maybe? What exactly allows one to create a reality marble?
Oh, and when it comes to time manipulation, there is a solar charm that basically kicks a region into Elsewhere where time flows to it in a different rate. A quick search also revealed a SWLIHN charm that dilates time when an exalt is doing crafting, so that construction,surgery,etc happens (essence) times faster than it should.
EDIT:
A) As an Exalt, by the time the grail war arrives in 10 years, Kiritsugu can be much better than the greatest human craftsman that ever lived (and thats in every possible field).
B) As an exalt, Kiritsugu can easily regrow the amputated limb. Then amputate it again for dual wielding. And then regrow it once more.
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
a distorted mentality deferent from the human norm. specifically, you need to be so messed up that you run on a different logic than soul of the world itself, like a Marauder oWoD Mage.
Eh, arguable. Barring regeneration... What is the volume of two ribs (Kiritsugu removed two of his own without having trouble later, as I understand it)? Reshaping those into a sword, or at least a blade, might result in a viable volume.
That (adding demons) might result in a less "pure" result. The quality of the resulting artefact might suffer. Eh, something to research later. Also, depending on how good Shirou turns out to be, and if he's interested in swordmaking (something to take his mind off being a hero), we might even apprentice him to one of those smiths.
You might well be right, I am not knowledgeable enough about nasuverse to argue here.
Of course he'll try to prevent it. Hopefully, at least.
As I said, some version of UBW, Ie a reality marble centered around sword making, is likely in the works.
I thought that everyone had a reality marble, they just were the same as the real world, normally, and hence couldn't be realized?
- Location
- Canada
a combination of all of the above.
the fire had Anti-Soul properties, which burned out Shirou's original personality traits, along with his element and origin.
from there, being implanted with a legendary artifact that possesses the traits of "sword" and "savior" gave him the basis of his new mentality, and his first moments where he sees Kiritsugu smiling and comes to the conclusion of "only those who save others can be truly happy" put the final nail in the coffin.
of course, if we get Avalon out of him quick enough, or make sure to reinforce the idea that he doesn't need to martyr himself to be happy, we might be able to change things.
- Location
- Spain
Convincing Kiritsugu to recover Avalon may be difficult though. And we don't have any IC knowledge that having it stuck inside can mess with Shirou
personality.
Of course this might result in him getting an origin of something like "infernal" or "yozi". Which isn't a good thing at all.
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
I am almost certain there are demons who are swords. There is a demon for everything and everything is a sword after all. Just ask Gervesin.
That said, it doesn't come out often but Malfeas is poisonous to mortals who aren't Exalted. Without protection, you die in seven days. Canon solutions include only an expansive antidote who carry the risk of addiction and a demonic moth that slaps itself over your mouth and nose and process through itself air and food to remove the poison. If the GM doesn't offer better options, it is better to leave Shirou and Illya out of Malfeas.
Which is a pity, because being around demons would help Shirou forming a Reality Marble immensely.
- Location
- Canada
that's why if you check the last line of my vote, I have him using Insignificant Embers Intuition to check Shirou's circuits. this might work to have him see that Avalon is doing something screwy to Shirou that it shouldn't be.
ES actually wrote some homebrew on this subject, called "The men of Malfeas" because he thought the standard "if you go here, you get super-cancer and die in 7 days" thing was stupid.
Couldn't we summon demons out of Malfeas though? Also aren't nasu demons (ones that would be helpful for developing RM) like radically different from exalted demons?
Also... Didn't "record swords in UBW" thing worked even before he obtained UBW itself? I wonder how this would react with demons who are swords.
It's very arguable if Avalon's influence is a negative thing. It did give Shirou a very big, if specialized, potential, what with aligned origin and element.
- Location
- Canada
yes, but the idea is to have him notice that something is changing Shirou's Element and Origin, and from their think about what this could mean for his son.
he's had UBW (or at least the potential for it) since about 6 months after he was adopted, he just had no idea he had it or how to use it. so, yes, if we let him develop that way, he might be able to do freaky things with demon swords...
Last edited:
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
Link please? That would be very helpful.
Yep. With sorcery. And we can bind them and order them to do what we want. Heck, would probably be smart to summon a couple of sesselja and order them to stay inside both Shirou and Ilya at all times.
Also, I believe the whole "demon" thing is political in exalted? The Yozi lost, so their 1st circles stopped being deva and started being demons (but did not actually change in reality at all).
Oh, and infernals have a few charms that make you a "native of malfeas". Would that help with the poison thing?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It was on the now defunct White-wolf forums unfortunately.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
The danger of Malfeas is not the air they breath. A mortal will not sicken and die after seven days in Malfeas. The danger is in the environment. Those who would love to take such valuable property, only stopped by fear of a Green Sun Princes wrath.
So yes, you can tell Shirou and Illya 'we're going on a road trip!' and travel across the Endless Desert in a dune buggy.
But just like taking them to Disney land, you'll want to keep good track of both of them, else they might be in danger.
- Location
- Canada
it was never finished and only on the White wolf forums.
I guess we could "@" or pm him and ask if he still has any of it?
I've got the first two parts saved to my harddrive, but I'm not sure if that would be enough to cover it...
I think its mentioned in one of the books that such poison in the air does exist.
However if its against fun, I see no reason not to pretend it does not exist.
PS. Shirou should walk. Then they can all ponder together the mystery of how the heck he reached Malfeas in exactly the same time as the dune buggy did.
Question: what would a person be without origin? From what I understand they would be utterly aimless and without any motivation. Having Avalon, a "pure" artifact, if ever there was one, shape Shirou's origin would be a good thing, especially when other influences are likely to be much more malicious. Also, my original idea for Shirou's "sword" (because I didn't come up with it on the spot):
No sane GM would ever allow this thing to be created, but it is still an idea Shirou could benefit from, I feel. And, as a good father, Kiritsugu would probably want Shirou to excel and have the best things.
Also, a thing o do potentially: find Saber's resting place, and wake her up.