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What are controversial gaming opinions you have?

Ford Prefect said:
If they want to role play they could perhaps play the role rather than having the game lock them out mechanically :V
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Maybe, but one of the things about Skyrim -- and it's both a strength and a downside -- is that it has extremely silo'd design; a lot of stuff could be separated, moved around, etc, without impacting anything else because nothing really reacts to anything else. There are a few exceptions -- the intersection of the Civil War and the MQ for example , or guard comments-- but they stand out as exceptions.

More reactivity outside of the specific quest you're doing would be nice, you know? But I've seen how Skyrim's dialogue has to be constructed, and we're frankly goddamn lucky the quests work at all. The guard dialogue, for example, is an absolute spaghetti nightmare.
 
The problem with skyrim's magic is it doesn't *feel* powerful and using it effectively in the early game is so unwieldy that it just doesn't sell itself as something worth investing in. It's not helped by a lot of the mid-level spells being questionably safe on collateral if you use followers or are doing quests in populated areas.

On paper it's very powerful an you can certainly get it to work but it's a miserable introductory experience and as a result I just don't want to use it.

I want to use the stealth archer because that feels satisfying and powerful.
 
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The Englanderish said:
The problem with skyrim's magic is it doesn't *feel* powerful and using it effectively in the early game is so unwieldy that it just doesn't sell itself as something worth investing in. It's not helped by a lot of the mid-level spells being questionably safe on collateral if you use followers or are doing quests in populated areas.

On paper it's very powerful an you can certainly get it to work but it's a miserable introductory experience and as a result I jst don't want to use it.

I want to use the stealth archer because that feels satisfying and powerful.
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The trick with magic, the trick to it, is to use it immediately and never, ever stop. I promise you it feels way better that way, especially if -- and this is admittedly an onboarding issue -- you know that the way to increase its damage is to get better spells.

As soon as you start using other skills Skyrim's level scaling will make everything even tougher and so your magic will feel less effective and so you'll use your other skills more, and it makes it more and more of a slog.

Start mage, stay mage. Best way to play.

EDIT:

Also, early stealth archer is incredibly tedious and finicky, since a low stealth score means you get spotted super easily, and early archer means you're burning through arrows that you might not have stockpiled as yet.
 
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The real problem with Skyrim magic is that it doesn't actually do anything cool. The most interesting abilities it has - summoning and charming - are actively taking away gameplay by shifting the combat onto something else.
 
Sparks is great tbh. Especially once you can randomly disintegrate people.
 
foamy said:
The trick with magic, the trick to it, is to use it immediately and never, ever stop. I promise you it feels way better that way, especially if -- and this is admittedly an onboarding issue -- you know that the way to increase its damage is to get better spells.

As soon as you start using other skills Skyrim's level scaling will make everything even tougher and so your magic will feel less effective and so you'll use your other skills more, and it makes it more and more of a slog.

Start mage, stay mage. Best way to play.

EDIT:

Also, early stealth archer is incredibly tedious and finicky, since a low stealth score means you get spotted super easily, and early archer means you're burning through arrows that you might not have stockpiled as yet.
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I mean the issue is needing to force myself. That's very, well, forced. It doesn't make me want to. And If it's not good t making me want to, that's its problem.

I am a very patient precision gremlin who loots everything that's not nailed down and have never had any serious issues with arrow supply as a result. Stealth archery just rewards those tendencies. Also I don't have to burn thru magicka potions that I can barely find in the early game either.

Tho granted I also don't go anywhere without a follower but why would I not? Faendal's right there out the gate and doesn't normally get in the way, so he synergises extremely well with the stealth archer build for early game.
 
The Englanderish said:
I mean the issue is needing to force myself. That's very, well, forced. It doesn't make me want to. And If it's not good t making me want to, that's its problem.

I am a very patient precision gremlin who loots everything that's not nailed down and have never had any serious issues with arrow supply as a result. Stealth archery just rewards those tendencies.
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I suppose, but... if you actually do do it it rapidly stops being forced and starts being 'why did I ever bother trying to hit people with chunks of metal like some barbarian'.

Also, as a fellow loot-enjoyer, I have good news for you: Mages loot more efficiently... since they aren't encumbered by pesky things like 'armour' or 'weapons'. :D
 
foamy said:
I suppose, but... if you actually do do it it rapidly stops being forced and starts being 'why did I ever bother trying to hit people with chunks of metal like some barbarian'.

Also, as a fellow loot-enjoyer, I have good news for you: Mages loot more efficiently... since they aren't encumbered by pesky things like 'armour' or 'weapons'. :D
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I mean magical defences like stoneflesh and wards feel sucky too so why would I use those either? :V
 
Wards are useless against anything that isn't a fellow wizard, who should be dead before then because cast first, cast often and once again I cast fireball into the darkness!
The various Mage Armour spells are actually kinda great tbh? They depend upon the Rules of Mage Armour, tho, Thou Shall Not Wear Armor.

Which is kinda weird for a setting where the heavily armored battlemage exists but that's a meh.
 
The Englanderish said:
I mean magical defences like stoneflesh and wards feel sucky too so why would I use those either? :V
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Wards do feel awful, but the xFlesh spells are actually very respectable, and Dragonhide is effectively max-cap armour -- and it actually stacks with max-cap armour if you wanna go the battlemage route and wade through people that only do 4% damage to you :V

But here's the real sauce: You don't actually need them most of the time because you'll be nuking down enemies too fast for them to kill you, especially if you mix in restoration or even healing potions :)
 
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foamy said:
Wards do feel awful, but the xFlesh spells are actually very respectable, and Dragonhide is effectively max-cap armour -- and it actually stacks with max-cap armour if you wanna go the battlemage route and wade through people that only do 4% damage to you :V

But here's the real sauce: You don't actually need them most of the time because you'll be nuking down enemies too fast for them to kill you, especially if you mix in restoration or even healing potions :)
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If only it felt fun enough to attract me to want to put the work in. :V
 
The Englanderish said:
If only it felt fun enough to attract me to want to put the work in. :V
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Two explosions per second from Fireball feels really, really good. Just sayin'. There's maybe two other attacks in the whole game that can match the sheer kineathestic appeal of fireballs and they're Fus Roh Dah (which has a much larger recharge time) and Lighting Storm, which is full on UNLIMITED POWER complete with screenshake and physics happening to loose stuff :V
 
My big issue with Skyrim magic is how bad it feels to be a necromancer, not only is animating a corpse just fundamentally more of a hassle then summoning an elemental but it's also very janky with undead regularly failing to pick up their weapon. Couple that with the same incredibly short lifespan of minions and it's worse then regular summoning in every way.

I used to desperately try to get some value out of it but these days I just do regular conjuration. Which really says something, I have a deep and spiritual appreciation for necromancy. If a fantasy game gives me the opportunity to play as a necromancer I take it. Skyrim was the first game to ruin it for me. Which is almost impressive.

I guess what I'm saying is that it #JustWorks and I look forward to Bethesda implementing a worse version in Elder Scrolls 6 when I'm 78 years old :V
 
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The Skyrim quests ending with you becoming the boss also comes off badly because they're all designed as a heroic narrative that singles you out as chosen but doesn't actually give you agency.

Like why the fuck in the thieves guild questline do you end up in charge and not Karliah? The player path is literally becoming a Nightingale so it'd be a perfectly fitting ending for her to assume the Guildmaster role and you take over as the top thief. The entire questline is you being bossed around by her or Brynolf anyway.

The Companions line kinda makes sense because they're warriors so it makes sense they'd put the best warrior in charge. But with the College it's almost a straight fucking shot from student going on field trip to tenure.

At least with Oblivion you went on tons of normal quests, so it at least feels like you're building up a career and seniority. But the actual normal guild jobs are so thin in Skyrim that it makes them all look purely like a chosen hero narrative. And the game is already built around a chosen hero narrative!
 
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The gamefeel of pulling your arrow back, letting go and watching it soar through the air and doming a bandit is extremely satisfying. Yes, even if the arrow doesn't outright kill the bandit, it still feels good. You also need good aim to for headshots, there's a high enough skill ceiling that getting good at it feels rewarding.

Neither swinging swords nor shooting lightning feels good. Bethesda was partly inspired by Bioshock's magic system for their own in regards to gamefeel.

The difference between the two is that if I set fire to a Splicer, they're going to flail around and scream in terror as their flesh melts off whereas if I did that to Nazeem, he'd put up his fists and try to box me.

Gamefeel and mechanically, archery is not only valid, it's also powerful. That's why sneak archer is a meme, it's a fun way to play the game.
 
You guys are making me wanna boot up Skyrim: Special Edition on the PC and play it again, with all this chatting. Don't think I ever actually played a full mage build before, without diversifying into various other roles.

Hm. Keeping on topic I think the main issues with Skyrim vs contemporary games is that it's been over a decade and game design has improved since it released. Quest structure, travel between areas, animations, etc. That isn't a flaw so much as the game being old now, however.

The downside of Skyrim is that we've had like six different releases since it came out, vs TES 6.
 
Hykal94 said:
The gamefeel of pulling your arrow back, letting go and watching it soar through the air and doming a bandit is extremely satisfying. Yes, even if the arrow doesn't outright kill the bandit, it still feels good. You also need good aim to for headshots, there's a high enough skill ceiling that getting good at it feels rewarding.
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I have bad news for you:

Skyrim doesn't have locational damage and headshots do exactly the same as any other hit. Just go centre-mass.
 
foamy said:
I have bad news for you:

Skyrim doesn't have locational damage and headshots do exactly the same as any other hit. Just go centre-mass.
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It's very cool how we went from locational limb damage in Fallout 3 with various mechanics associated with crippling your enemies then Skyrim comes around and headshotting people doesn't even do anything.

Thanks, Todd.
 
foamy said:
Two explosions per second from Fireball feels really, really good. Just sayin'. There's maybe two other attacks in the whole game that can match the sheer kineathestic appeal of fireballs and they're Fus Roh Dah (which has a much larger recharge time) and Lighting Storm, which is full on UNLIMITED POWER complete with screenshake and physics happening to loose stuff :V
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My main experience with fireball has been one off which missed and then all the magicka gone. Or alternatively blowing myself up. :V

Like you can go on about how it might be once you're over the hill, but the hill is the problem.
 
Yeah for all I can't deny magic is great and fun once it gets going... I can also get going a lot faster with other setups, just grab bow, grab arrows, congrats you are archer. Or grab armor, grab sord, you are warrior. Meanwhile magic is heavily reliant on a little blue bar you have to constantly manage in a way other builds aren't nearly as reliant on the stamina bar, and in the early game that blue bar empties fast. Sure, flames will torch down one or two bandits quick as anything, but then unless you decided to bring a bunch of mana potions or something the next ten minutes are "run around flailing as guys with big weapons stab you in your vulnerable robes sending you ragdolling instantly".

The early-game feel of magic is pretty terrible until you get over that hill, and it's a hill that other builds don't really have.
 
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