- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Controversial gaming opinion: video games are good.
What are controversial gaming opinions you have?
You're recalling incorrectly. Talos/Tiber Septim, whose worship is banned, was born long after the Snow Elves were wiped out/forced underground, and his worship is prominent in Skyrim (and Cyrodiil) because of how integral the Nords were and still are to the Septim and Mede Empires. Also, Talos is generally considered to be a Nord.
Information: Threadban
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
40k isn't that strong of a sci-fi franchise. It has smaller gods and worse tech than Star Trek, it has smaller nations than Star Wars, its tech is mostly just big, not advanced, and the moment an actual sci-fi heavyweight shows up it will get folded like a rug.
- Location
- Russia
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Yeah; the 40k galaxy is a galaxy in decline, with the exception of some up and comers (like the T'au, for example). The Imperium is Rome or the Third Reich in its death throes; flailing blindly, desperate to find the glory of its mythical past. Its edifices built on lies and blood.
Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I said as part of a pantheon that the snow elves worshipped.
Because while the snow elves did not worship Talos, they did worship the same pantheon that he is in.
Not a 40k fan but I dunno...
The comparison to Star Trek might be fair, but Star Wars seems shakier. Certainly in astrographic terms the Imperium is limited and their FTL is not great.
But volume of empty space does not make one great! The Republic and Empire span most of a galaxy, but they seem to span it very sparsely. The Imperium has many forge worlds. The Star Wars galaxy doesn't, nor does it seem to make it up in less concentrated industries.
Comparing respective nonsense war-tech is kind of limited by them all being nonsense.
As a place to live, of course, anywhere not grim-dark is a better choice. Repressed aliens in the Empire seem to be no worse off than commoners in the Imperium.
And as a place for stories...not a 40k fan.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Person has been banned already.
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Wookieepedia - The Galaxy (Legends) said:
Wookieepedia - The Galaxy (Disney) said:
Star Wars is fucking massive. Its just only, like, 12 of those planets matter.
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E.I.G.
Robo-Bird
- Pronouns
- It/They
Are we talking the issues with 40K? Because I have Issues with 40K.
The setting itself is a trash fire, because every faction has its very own "the universe is fucked" end condition, except for the ones so small that they are effectively waiting for one of the others to give them enough attention to wipe them out.
This could be an interesting power dynamic, but in practice it means that every single story you can try to tell is either a tale of how it all dies or runs headfirst into the fact that you need to break the setting to get a better outcome.
Now from a gaming perspective this isn't terrible. You can easily make local situations where you progress through a storyline. However, it does lead to an abundance of Pyrrhic victories in the games. You manage to win where "win" is defined as "more of your opponent's stuff is burned down than your stuff, but the next time will likely destroy you if you do this badly again".
There are interesting factions, but video games always nerf the faction you aren't playing because in practice the setting tells stories where the protagonist is the better faction and all of them require those nerfs because there is no clear baseline for where stuff actually fits.
Also good luck finding a game where you aren't mainly playing a human or human derived faction.
Finally there is fucking Chaos. Fucking Chaos is a cancer on the aspect of writing anything with 40K because they are so fucking overbearing of a concept.
They are a metaphysical mind plague that you can't kill but also can't fight against and win. They are the setting's one true issue of "nothing can ever get better" because all the damn lore says that they are invulnerable in practice and only haven't won yet because they fight themselves, or at least that is the impression I get anytime 40K is discussed with regards to fixing things.
They aren't interesting because they are all definitionally bad so you have trouble going with them as a viewpoint, they remove interesting options because if you are close to their operations they "corrupt" you into more of them, and they have a monopoly on all of the more exotic aspects of the setting that I would find interesting if not for them all being murderous, immoral, and just the worst aspects of things.
I can't stand 40K, because every time I look at one of its things and go "this seems interesting, what can I do with this" I end up going "oh, right, everything is trash and fixing stuff means basically rewriting the entire setting".
The setting itself is a trash fire, because every faction has its very own "the universe is fucked" end condition, except for the ones so small that they are effectively waiting for one of the others to give them enough attention to wipe them out.
This could be an interesting power dynamic, but in practice it means that every single story you can try to tell is either a tale of how it all dies or runs headfirst into the fact that you need to break the setting to get a better outcome.
Now from a gaming perspective this isn't terrible. You can easily make local situations where you progress through a storyline. However, it does lead to an abundance of Pyrrhic victories in the games. You manage to win where "win" is defined as "more of your opponent's stuff is burned down than your stuff, but the next time will likely destroy you if you do this badly again".
There are interesting factions, but video games always nerf the faction you aren't playing because in practice the setting tells stories where the protagonist is the better faction and all of them require those nerfs because there is no clear baseline for where stuff actually fits.
Also good luck finding a game where you aren't mainly playing a human or human derived faction.
Finally there is fucking Chaos. Fucking Chaos is a cancer on the aspect of writing anything with 40K because they are so fucking overbearing of a concept.
They are a metaphysical mind plague that you can't kill but also can't fight against and win. They are the setting's one true issue of "nothing can ever get better" because all the damn lore says that they are invulnerable in practice and only haven't won yet because they fight themselves, or at least that is the impression I get anytime 40K is discussed with regards to fixing things.
They aren't interesting because they are all definitionally bad so you have trouble going with them as a viewpoint, they remove interesting options because if you are close to their operations they "corrupt" you into more of them, and they have a monopoly on all of the more exotic aspects of the setting that I would find interesting if not for them all being murderous, immoral, and just the worst aspects of things.
I can't stand 40K, because every time I look at one of its things and go "this seems interesting, what can I do with this" I end up going "oh, right, everything is trash and fixing stuff means basically rewriting the entire setting".
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Republic has millions of core worlds. Toss in the Inner Rim and the Outer Rim and suddenly you understand just how thinly spread the IoM is.
I guess I don't really take that seriously. If that were true, Kuat Drive Yards and Corellia an Mon Calamari couldn't have had the outsized strategic weight they do. The rebel fleet we see in RotJ could never have been significant to the Empire unless it was one of thousands like it, which it isn't.
Madam Carstein
Cheerful Middenlander Demoness
- Location
- Middenland
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
Tbf, certain pieces of media like Clone Wars were better about this.
It was entirely common to feature events on 2-4 different planets per episode. With various little-developed worlds like Christophsis, Umbara, Serenno, etc. getting abundant development and storylines.
It also pretty largely averted the trend of everything seeming to happen on Tatooine despite it being characterised as a galactic backwater.
The show's episodic structure and the plot necessity of a galaxy-wide war made it really easy to justify new things happening on different planets all the time.
My headcanon for things like that is that places like that are disproportionately influential but that they're far from the only shipbuilders in a galaxy with an inconceivably vast population.
Moreover, such places doubtless have a reputation that makes them famous compared to say, some remote shipbuilding company on an Outer Rim world that nobody's heard of.
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Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
Star Wars only feels smaller because their FTL works like highways with clear routes that can zip you clear across the galaxy. Whereas in 40K even moving a system over can be a dice toss unless you're a Space Marine or someone else important.
That too seems like a matter of getting around the galaxy being pretty quick and easy (atleast within core Republic/Empire space). You can become a planet based manufacturing juggernaut if there's nothing stopping you from selling literally on the opposite end of the galaxy. You don't need a giant fleet for every big patch of space, and that's probably more wasteful than relying on mobility.
Also not all planets are created equal. Some of those are going to be colonies or just worlds that don't have the production capacity. Then you have planets like Kuat and Mon Cala that have a shitload of tech and production as well as specific things about their stuff that makes you want to buy them.
That too seems like a matter of getting around the galaxy being pretty quick and easy (atleast within core Republic/Empire space). You can become a planet based manufacturing juggernaut if there's nothing stopping you from selling literally on the opposite end of the galaxy. You don't need a giant fleet for every big patch of space, and that's probably more wasteful than relying on mobility.
Also not all planets are created equal. Some of those are going to be colonies or just worlds that don't have the production capacity. Then you have planets like Kuat and Mon Cala that have a shitload of tech and production as well as specific things about their stuff that makes you want to buy them.
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The Englanderish
Schrödinger's Kuudere Kitty Caliph(a)
- Location
- Califat de Chats
Tryhard vs. debating is insecure and dickwavy at the best of times, and Star Wars is not a hard milfi space setting. For the love of sanity stop treating it it like it. It's had enough problems with official stuff making that mistake.
Madam Carstein
Cheerful Middenlander Demoness
- Location
- Middenland
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
Also, there's something to be said for specialisation. Other planets and places undoubtedly manufacture their own ships. But for say, Corellia, shipbuilding is their thing and has been an established industry for thousands of years. They might not be the only game in town but they're established, reliable, and indisputably good at what they do.
hghwolf
Bird of contempt
But how else am I going to argue that AT-ATs forward - do they have others ? - guns are crust slaggers that they turned down to a fraction for the battle of Hoth because Vader wanted Luke alive ?
VS debates. Not even once.
But in a galaxy that big Mon Cala might be the best, but even if they were a planet-sized shipyard (which they don't seem to be) their total output would be negligible as a fraction of what is out there.
Which would make a rebellion reliant on them for capital ships likewise.
LordInsane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
Sort-ish. We know Auri-El was worshipped as part of Falmer religion, but it is not actually known how strong the overlap was with Aedric Ayleid practices or Altmer religion other than that, and Alessia's conception of the Eight Divines appears to have included at least some inspiration from Nordic faith (of the time). It's also not really confirmed how forced Talos worship was on Skyrim; it is quite likely that a major vector was Nords serving in the Legion voluntarily getting in on the Talos cult business and Skyrim simply being so highly interwoven with the Third Empire and the Septims for so long.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is that if there are literally millions and millions of whole star systems out there, it's almost inconceivable that any half a dozen or so star systems, no matter how prestigious and heavily built up, could be producing a meaningful fraction of the overall society's supply of hulls.
It's remotely possible that those could be the only warship assembly lines if the entire setting is very centralized in that respect, but it still seems a bit of a strain.
- Location
- Russia
To be fair, Star Wars is a rather demilitarized setting. The giant plot point of the Prequels had in fact been that the galaxy has been at peace for so long that they had no standing military of any kind whatsoever. And the Galactic Empire only lasted for, like, a decade or two.
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Don't forget licensing. Corellia is less a source of ships and more a source of ship designs.
- Location
- Georgia, US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
TBH these aren't super great criticisms. It's true that 40k doesn't have super advanced tech, or at least doesn't have a reliable distribution of very advanced tech if we're restricting ourselves to the Imperium (the Necrons, Eldar, and Tau would no doubt beg to differ). But how is this a flaw of the setting?
The whole point of the Imperium as the flagship faction is that it is a backwards inefficient nightmare where science, rationality, and progress has been lost in favor of unreasoning fanaticism. This isn't subtext, it's literally just text and it's a key part of the setting's tone. Criticizing it for not being super advanced frankly is just missing the point. That's not what anyone comes for when they consume 40k media.
Also sure Star Wars is technically bigger. Who cares? Any writer can say they have a bijillion million quintillion thingies, it's just empty fluff. What matters is how effectively that is conveyed by and supports the narrative. Frankly I find that 40k does a significantly better job on average then Star Wars in giving off an impression of vastness. Part of it is because of narrative touches like the super dangerous and slow FTL but that's still a legitimate source of size, no one forced George Lucas to have speedy FTL. What matters is that if you want a sci-fi series that feels genuinely vast 40k is a top contender.
(I'm not going to touch the vs matchup part of the post- I do not and will never judge fiction on how well it does when pitted against other fiction in niche internet forums)
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