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What are controversial gaming opinions you have?

Arden said:
I think you meant converts. "No zealot like a convert" is a common idiom.
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Yeah, that. Any sort of convert tends to become zealous.

I think the phenomenon is similar because it tends to take a LOT to get someone to make a fundamental change in their beliefs. So once that change starts going, it tends not to stop until it reach its natural resting point.
 
Triggerhappy said:
I think the phenomenon is similar because it tends to take a LOT to get someone to make a fundamental change in their beliefs. So once that change starts going, it tends not to stop until it reach its natural resting point.
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Honestly, I think part of it is also the "nerd social fallacies." 'We should be tolerant and inclusive of people, so we must be inclusive of even total assholes and creeps who are making everyone around them uncomfortable!'

Although, thinking about it, that really both ties back to the same thing, doesn't it? Taking a good thing past the point of all sense and reason.
 
Arden said:
Honestly, I think part of it is also the "nerd social fallacies." 'We should be tolerant and inclusive of people, so we must be inclusive of even total assholes and creeps who are making everyone around them uncomfortable!'

Although, thinking about it, that really both ties back to the same thing, doesn't it? Taking a good thing past the point of all sense and reason.
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Nerds had this issue for a long time because you couldn't be too picky with who you shared your niche hobbies with.

Also, it seems like back in the early days of the internet, people were more prone to ignoring or not even thinking to ask about peoples IRL opinions.

I remember the Drama back on SB when a member flat out admitted to being a real life Neo Nazi. That was really one of the forums first 'wait what?!' wake up moments, IMO.

And, to an extent, I think it's tricky, because while we traveled together with crappy people, they did in fact lay legitimate claim to being part of the discourse and the culture.

That doesn't mean it's still true now, of course. They can lay claim, but not anymore than anyone else. And they are becoming increasingly and actively hostile as they're diluted by a more diverse influx of participants.
 
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Triggerhappy said:
You just have to lay firm ground rules on when and where the horny stuff is appropriate. Which is generally - 'not in public and not in media that isn't being honest about its intentions'.
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To be honest, the latter puzzles me - what is considered dishonesty? And is this honesty important to me? Many fans love favorite elements for their own sake, not because the author had any intentions or was somehow explained in the world. And besides, I don't think that "Quiet" or Eva define the entire identity of the Metal Gears - there's too much there to constantly point a finger at some country's decisions.... Besides, I'm accustomed to the idea. that if some product is made by the Japanese, then there will definitely be something out of the ordinary (not necessarily related to sex or the body).
Although I would not use a character with such an appearance in a war drama - I am Russian, not Japanese - rather in cyberpunk or more distant action-sci-fi.

Triggerhappy said:
Like, NGL, I would absolutely play some of the weird XCOM/dating sim clones if the production qualities were decent and they weren't gatcha games.
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To be honest, I'm not inclined to play such games - my main sin is "True Love Monogotari", and only because this is one of the few "real" data sims available in Russian... okay, I'm still inclined to replay it ( me and sensei should be together!). Fighting games are another matter - I have already admitted that one of the two reasons why I generally watch playthroughs of Tekken or other similar games is attractive fighting ladies.
Here, for me, the question is not about porn games, but about "can a game that is not a porn game have fanservice content that is not justified by the plot?"

Night said:
"I cannot be sex-positive and also progressive" are cowards' words.
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By Western standards, I am not sex-positive - I do not trust studios about the production of live pornography and against the legalization of prostitution (for the record, no - I am against the criminalization of the activities of "individuals", I am for the criminal prosecution of pimps). However, I'll note in advance that for Russian feminism these are mainstream positions.
 
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Frankly I've been trying to stop going "this is misogynist/sexist/etc" quite so fast ever since I've started figuring out how much of the stuff I reflexively think that about is made by and for women. Things like Skyrim mods, fanfiction... Loads of stuff really. Now obviously that's not the same as sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is always fine. There is absolutely stuff that's just outright derogatory, demeaning and degrading. And not in the way the person it is demeaning or degrading enjoys, if you know what I mean. Especially in video games.
 
Comrade Future said:
To be honest, the latter puzzles me - what is considered dishonesty?
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Not advertising such elements clearly and up-front, because frankly, yes, I do think that this is not much different than whipping out your dick in public or trying to engage someone in a conversation about your favourite brand of vibrator who really does not want to talk to you about anything like that, ever.
 
Arden said:
Not advertising such elements clearly and up-front, because frankly, yes, I do think that this is not much different than whipping out your dick in public or trying to engage someone in a conversation about your favourite brand of vibrator who really does not want to talk to you about anything like that, ever.
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Basically this. A game like 'Subverse' is sleezy as hell . . . but it does not claim to be anything other than what it actually is and slaps a big old 'adult game' label on its store page.
 
Arden said:
Not advertising such elements clearly and up-front, because frankly, yes, I do think that this is not much different than whipping out your dick in public or trying to engage someone in a conversation about your favourite brand of vibrator who really does not want to talk to you about anything like that, ever.
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This distills nicely to consent, basically: if the content shouldn't be presented to a non-consenting viewer, make sure that your viewers are informed such that they can consent.
 
I think as far as movies and games go the age ratings listing what the rating is for do a pretty good job of that already.
 
Rhel said:
I think as far as movies and games go the age ratings listing what the rating is for do a pretty good job of that already.
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The problem with those, in my opinion, tends to be that age ratings are certainly good at telling you about the absence of certain types of content, but not at differentiating between them. An adult-rated movie, for example, might be adult-rated for a number of very different reasons, some of which you are okay with seeing and some of which you aren't. They aren't really granular enough to inform you about anything other than age-appropriateness.
 
Folks really need to just stop trying to combine ice physics and block pushing puzzles.

Just, like. They've tried. Games have been trying to make that combination enjoyable of decades, now. There's been dozens, hundreds of attempts at it.

They've all just kinda' sucked, at minimum relative to the rest of the game and generally just kind of outright.

Devs really need to give up on this one. Some shit just don't work.
 
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Arden said:
An adult-rated movie, for example, might be adult-rated for a number of very different reasons, some of which you are okay with seeing and some of which you aren't. They aren't really granular enough to inform you about anything other than age-appropriateness.
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For quite a few years now, British film certificate ratings have had a mandatory box next to them saying why it's an PG/12A/12/15/18. E.g. The Mummy has a 12A certificate for "moderate violence, threat, injury detail, suicide, language".

(And of course, the R18 video rating only even exists for porn – you have to be a licensed sex establishment to sell R18 video. Something that would be considered excessive for an 18 cert for anything other than sexual content is uncertifiable, and thus flat-out illegal on home video.)
 
Frumple said:
Folks really need to just stop trying to combine ice physics and block pushing puzzles.
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IMO, it seems the issue is more that a lot of players don't actually want to be interrupted from the normal gameplay of whatever genre their playing to engage with a puzzle.

The result is shoving an overly simple, poorly fleshed out, puzzle game into a game of a completely different genre.

Like, I was thinking about this last night while making a concerted effort to do a full playthrough of Nier Automata - 9S's hacking minigame is essentially just a variant of the games standard bullet hell/doding, no different from what you do in 3D on foot, or 2D using the flight unit.

The solution IMO is to commit fully and actually put a really good puzzle minigame into the main game, but only as an alternative means of progression.

Arden said:
They aren't really granular enough to inform you about anything other than age-appropriateness.
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I cannot remember that last time a game or movie didn't include a short list of the reasons it had received it's rating.

i.e. M - for graphic violence, sexual content, etc . . .
 
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Triggerhappy said:
i.e. M - for graphic violence, sexual content, etc . . .
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Yeah, but what exactly does "sexual content" mean? Does it mean there's a flash of boobs on the screen for 5 seconds or does it mean that Hideo Kojima includes a barely-dressed woman for his own sexual titillation and a creepy strip show in the middle? Because those are simply not the same thing.
 
You know, I think that Hideo Kojima was actually honest about just including Quiet for titillation.

We're just all forgetting one particular fact: he has a fetish for overly complicated pseudo-scientific explanations.
 
Triggerhappy said:
If people pay attention . . .
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Well that's really on them if they don't.

In any case, while I'm not exactly convinced it's necessary I'm not exactly *against* extensive labelling either. Though really I'd be much, much, much more interested in labelling violent content or things that might trigger phobias than just... nudity? A skimpy costume?

Fanfiction and other similar subcultures funnily enough kinda show how it can be done with the tendency to use tags for just about anything someone might look for or want to avoid.
 
Rhel said:
In any case, while I'm not exactly convinced it's necessary I'm not exactly *against* extensive labelling either. Though really I'd be much, much, much more interested in labelling violent content or things that might trigger phobias than just... nudity? A skimpy costume?
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As an American my culture has enough problems with enduring puritanism, going so far as to have labels for skimpy costumes is a bridge too far. I'm not interested in cultivating a culture where that's treated as a hazard equivalent to graphic violence.

We already have games ratings, people who are concerned with specific content should use that and if that's insufficient do their own research. That's not a valid reason to contribute to the artistic and social harms caused by puritanism.
 
Hmm, it would be interesting if the next Zelda game took place in a alternative world like Age of Calamity just because it would be interesting to see how some things might develop with the Yiga Clan in relations to both the Sheikah and Royal family given the whole ultimately ending up siding with Hyrule against Ganon.

Its not like the Legend of Zelda games are a stranger to games taking place in alternative timelines given the whole Child and Adult timelines and of course the timeline of the NES, Super NES games as well as many of the Gameboy games took place in.
 
Triggerhappy said:
If people pay attention . . .
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And if they don't that's their own fault. There are very well defined rules about what can and can't be done in media or advertisement, what counts as public, and so on.

At a certain point you're doing the equivalent of putting up warning signs around beaches and pools telling people that they might see someone in swimwear.
 
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