Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Good to know then!
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Good to know then!
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
...Actually, a thought - the station is all the way out at Denva II L4, so it's probably at least a few light minutes away. That's a lot of latency for remote operation. And we don't have FTL comms or anything. So we might be better just communicating by email, unless we want to send another person up. Assuming by 'remote proxy' you meant one of our avatars.
Edit: Yeah, so according to some quick searching earths L4 point is 1.66 light minutes away. Denva's might vary a bit, but it's probably not too far off, and so, not viable for remote operation.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I mean, I think we're okay? We may have range limitations and don't have a proper ansible, but 40K is weird and at least basic superluminal stuff seems ubiquitous just by way of it Not requiring hours on end to get a message from the other end of the system, as well as ships being able to cross a system in a few days rather than needing months.
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- Location
- USA
Yea, I guess insystem communications in 40k *IS* superluminal, ugh... freaking butter soft science fantasy, oof....
So, ANYWAY! If anyone wants to read a 'like 40k, but coherent science fantasy from a single specific vision', I'd suggest the Starship's Mage series by Glynn Stewart, which WOULD be a hard sci-fi book, except that they have basically D&D Wizards that are specifically required to do... essentially everything that shows up in 'soft sci fi' series, thereby technically making the book series 'Science Fantasy', like 40k. And it isn't science fantasy in the way Star Wars is, it's really quite novel!
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[X]Plan: Hearts and Minds
- [X]Free so far you have only worked directly with Avon, and when you first made contact with them, it almost ended with you blowing yourself up. It would be best if you spent some time to research the other nations so you aren't caught unawares.
- [X] Diplomacy/Subversion:
-- [X] Before you can make the mechanicus into a more respectable power that can work harmoniously with the people of Denva, you must first make sure they don't revert back to their old ways. Unfortunately, loath as you are to admit it, it seems unlikely that you will be able to get rid of all of the religious dogma the mechanicus couch themselves in. And, indeed, you have learned that the faith serves a purpose, though the exact reasons for that lay beyond your partition. Rather than completely dismantling the Mechanicus faith, it would be better to modernize it. Build it into something that can actually help people. In addition, you did just do a hostile take-over. Some people might even call it a coup. You *need* to do some image rehabilitation. Fortunately, both of these objectives can be accomplished in the same way. Teach. Teach loudly and in public, to everyone who will listen. Teach quietly in the shadows, to those who you know will do good with the knowledge. Teach those who support you, so they know you practice what you preach. Teach those who hate you, with action rather than words. And make sure, when you teach knowledge, you also teach wisdom. (TLDR: try and turn the mechanicus dogma around into something useful, and look good doing it)
- [X] Diplomacy/Subversion:
-- [X] Whilst Avon has been kept relatively abreast of your actions and developments, no one else has. This needs to change. The fact of the matter is that if you keep dealing solely with Avon, then the other countries will invariably fall behind. Inevitably, that will lead to resentment, and perhaps even war. It would be best to nip that problem in the bud. Create a Council of Nations (wait, maybe something with the acronym "CoN" is a bad idea, workshop the name) where you can talk to all the nations at once. If there is already one such organization, co-opt it. Ensure it has some amount of governing power by offering incentives in the form of tech and aid. Give it legitimacy by bringing the mechanicus to the table. And do your absolute best to build in checks and balances so it dosn't go corrupt the second you take your eyes off it. (TLDR: Make the UN and give it some oompf with our tech and control over the mechanicus)
-[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
--[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
--[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
--[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
--[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
--[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
--[X]1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
(Construction action take directly from Alectai's plan)
- [X] Research: (200 RP + 25 Anexa)
-- [X] Biology is kinda wet actually (75+25 Anexa)
-- [X]Advanced materials(125/300)
Approval vote for
[X] Plan: Seeing the road ahead
- [X]Free so far you have only worked directly with Avon, and when you first made contact with them, it almost ended with you blowing yourself up. It would be best if you spent some time to research the other nations so you aren't caught unawares.
- [X] Diplomacy/Subversion:
-- [X] Before you can make the mechanicus into a more respectable power that can work harmoniously with the people of Denva, you must first make sure they don't revert back to their old ways. Unfortunately, loath as you are to admit it, it seems unlikely that you will be able to get rid of all of the religious dogma the mechanicus couch themselves in. And, indeed, you have learned that the faith serves a purpose, though the exact reasons for that lay beyond your partition. Rather than completely dismantling the Mechanicus faith, it would be better to modernize it. Build it into something that can actually help people. In addition, you did just do a hostile take-over. Some people might even call it a coup. You *need* to do some image rehabilitation. Fortunately, both of these objectives can be accomplished in the same way. Teach. Teach loudly and in public, to everyone who will listen. Teach quietly in the shadows, to those who you know will do good with the knowledge. Teach those who support you, so they know you practice what you preach. Teach those who hate you, with action rather than words. And make sure, when you teach knowledge, you also teach wisdom. (TLDR: try and turn the mechanicus dogma around into something useful, and look good doing it)
- [X] Diplomacy/Subversion:
-- [X] Whilst Avon has been kept relatively abreast of your actions and developments, no one else has. This needs to change. The fact of the matter is that if you keep dealing solely with Avon, then the other countries will invariably fall behind. Inevitably, that will lead to resentment, and perhaps even war. It would be best to nip that problem in the bud. Create a Council of Nations (wait, maybe something with the acronym "CoN" is a bad idea, workshop the name) where you can talk to all the nations at once. If there is already one such organization, co-opt it. Ensure it has some amount of governing power by offering incentives in the form of tech and aid. Give it legitimacy by bringing the mechanicus to the table. And do your absolute best to build in checks and balances so it dosn't go corrupt the second you take your eyes off it. (TLDR: Make the UN and give it some oompf with our tech and control over the mechanicus)
-[X] Construction: (2,750 Ground BP, 500 Void BP)
--[X] 6x Spaceports (-600 BP, -150 CP)
---[X] We're going to build these on the spot they already nuked, because hey, it's Free Real Estate.
--[X] 60x Shuttles (-1200 BP, -300 CP)
--[X] Make good our Combat Losses (-270 BP)
--[X] Klyssa Station Dig Supplies (-250 BP, shipped using available infrastructure this turn)
--[X] Incentive Budget for the Summit and Rent (-430 BP)
--[X]1x Orbital Manufactory (-500 VBP, -50 CP)
(Construction action take directly from Alectai's plan)
- [X] Research: (200 RP + 25 Anexa)
-- [X] Biology is kinda wet actually (75+25 Anexa)
-- [X]Advanced materials(125/300)
Approval vote for
[X] Plan: Seeing the road ahead
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cant we build our personal ship as one size larger than what we have research for?
-[] Can I have a new ship please? (200 RP) Triggers a sub-turn to design yourself a new ship. It can be any size, up to one class larger than what you currently have available (This is Vita's unique mechanic, and will let you design the first iteration of your ship)
- Location
- USA
I'd like to do a survey of 'similar' Imperial designs before we design our ship!
- Pronouns
- Zack
[X]Plan: Hearts and Minds
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
Oh huh, none of us have used our free actions, have we? In that case...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order
Spoke with Alectai on discord a bit - and while I was unsure of not focusing on exponential growth this turn, once it was pointed out I broadly agreed with the rationale of securing the ability crash build space defenses/infrastructure before anything else.
Research-wise, it works with Anexa to do biology is wet, and uses the remaining points on A Study of Physics, so that's a pass.
Plan Nation Building also meets my research criteria, but I think it's premature to start investing effort into space elevator stuff.
Spoke with Alectai on discord a bit - and while I was unsure of not focusing on exponential growth this turn, once it was pointed out I broadly agreed with the rationale of securing the ability crash build space defenses/infrastructure before anything else.
Research-wise, it works with Anexa to do biology is wet, and uses the remaining points on A Study of Physics, so that's a pass.
Plan Nation Building also meets my research criteria, but I think it's premature to start investing effort into space elevator stuff.
- Location
- USA
>,> Did you even see my message about looking up ships?
This post.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest Mature - Sci-Fi
An AI from the Dark Age of Technology reawakens and finds themself faced with a situation beyond their worst possible assumptions. That's you. Surprise! A lot happened while you were asleep. Cadia has fallen, and the Great Rift has divided the Galaxy in two. Humanity is lost and leaderless...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
I invest no effort other than offering it as an option during diplomatic actions.
>,> Did you even see my message about looking up ships?
This post.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest Mature - Sci-Fi
An AI from the Dark Age of Technology reawakens and finds themself faced with a situation beyond their worst possible assumptions. That's you. Surprise! A lot happened while you were asleep. Cadia has fallen, and the Great Rift has divided the Galaxy in two. Humanity is lost and leaderless...
Yeah I wanted something more concise. Trying not to text wall Neablis any more than necessary.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yes, and unless we want to be a liar, by offering it, they'd be idiots not to take it, and then we're on the hook for Several turns as we redline our economy on an unneccessary boondoggle because people thought we had infinite time and space to indulge in megaprojects before we even have steady space infrastructure.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is true, but I'm not sure that's, well, free. Neablis was clear that splitting focus does mean diluting results, and we don't know if even starting a space elevator project will be feasible before we leave.
Whether or not they're interested in carrying out such a project themselves - and they would have to largely do this by themselves, we're not sticking around to do it for them - is something that will be far more clear later on when the scope of manufacturing capacity we leave behind is more settled.
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- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
We don't have to pay the whole price, or even most of it - and if we're paying that much, then we'd be able to extract appropriate concessions from them in return. And we'd mostly just be building Manufactories, and then throwing the thing up in a couple of actions. Still, I can ditch it, if that's what people are concerned about.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Who else here has the economy to pay even a fraction of that? 250 BP is a significant portion of the entire local mechanicus turn production, the god damn Space Elevator costs a total of 75,000[ across two tracks.
For all intents and purposes, you're saying "We're buying it ourselves to use as a carrot and then trying to get paid twice by getting even more benefits for having to build the whole thing in the first place" Which is all avoided by just not putting something that we won't even be able to start on for several turns and committing ourselves to being in system for potentially twice the length of the entire game so far unless we want to be a liar.
- Location
- USA
Well, mostly the heavy cruiser/battlecruiser/grand cruiser doesn't have a lot of 'long range patrol' stuff... except the Exorcist, I think. I think it'd maybe be bad if a full success got you one lousy design, no?
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
Once we help them get their economy in order, the rest of the planet should be able to make significant contributions. Manned manufactories have the same 50% per action scaling as our manufactories do, and they probably won't run out of actions to run them with anytime soon. I mean, they probably can't do 4 build actions a turn like we can, but even just two would have them getting well above a doubling in a turn. If we're also scaling up at two actions per turn or something, that only means a few turns before we can build the thing, that's not too bad at all.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan: Sorting out the New Order
[X] Plan: Nation Building
And so you have! I still prefer Alectai's plan, but I'll throw an approval vote.
[X] Plan: Nation Building
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
... That's because the Imperium has no idea how to design bespoke ships because it's a lost art for the most part that only a few Forge Worlds retain the knowledge for--and only very few of those can design new classes bigger than an escort.
So they have to make do with refits of designs that existed before they lost the ability to come up with new ideas, or very tiny incremental adjustments with questionable benefits, like the Chalice-class Battlecruiser that sounds nice but literally catches fire and explodes if it ever takes hull damage and they have no idea what causes it but there's a giant propaganda campaign to convince everyone that they're all super-cruisers that kick all the ass.
And the Imperium hates ships capable of long range independent operations that are bigger than a light cruiser because it's really easy to take those and go rogue with them. Which happens annoyingly frequently even disregarding actual enemy action where Chaos just steals entire ship classes and purges all the ability to produce them domestically from existence with magic, to the point where even if you have copies of the plans that weren't doctored or destroyed with magic, building one will have it become a Chaos Ship before long because they called dibs on the design.
Anyway, I'm tired, so I'm going to head to bed rather than get myself worked up over this. Maybe I'll have a clearer head in the morning, though I've got a lot of things to do tomorrow that aren't going to help T_T
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that's fair. mega-structures are cool, but we will be coming back here at some point, inevitably, so we could always do it then. I still want to put progress towards it though, because its cool
- Location
- USA
Which basically means, @Angle that it's a bad idea to limit the search to 'only bigger than a light cruiser' for this search? Since we'll find very very little!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The most important technological step towards it is organic-machine control and its follow-ons - that's what lets them use our mining/manufacturing directly. The other most important step is ensuring a stable political order that can play cookie clicker using the infrastructure we left behind without us.
We don't have to stick around for the boring parts of exponential growth.
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