Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
One of the problems with this is 'Change their views of AI into what?' They cannot just decide AI is OK now, not when AI is 'ancient technology that talks', not when it's handing them the secrets of the Dark Age. If we turn their thoughts on AI positive we turn from Devil to Angel, they are going to start worshiping us.
While that is probably not the best solution it certainly beats being seen as robot satan.
Id like to be able to communicate honestly without starting war.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
That seems possible, but not necessarily all that problematic. In fact, it would probably be quite useful, as long as their view of AIs remains at "Angel" rather than "God".
Convince the Mechanicus that AIs are the greatest achievements human technology ever created, their subversion and corruption by the Warp the cause of the downfall of humanity's golden age. In addition to being mostly true, this should also be a powerful motivator to overcome that catastrophe and find ways to make incorruptible AI.. and as it happens, becoming incorruptible by Chaos should absolutely be among Vita's highest priorities. We could do with an ex-Mechanicus research division to help with that project.
Hmm... that would admittedly not be the worst thing, you could basically build a subversive ad mech cult with the premise, the problem is the belief that they need to control tech. We would have to turn them from a tech control cult into a science cult.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Telling the whole planet or just AdMech about Vita being an AI feels way too early at this point. I mean, remember how long it too to deprogram Anexa, when she was alone and isolated and well-disposed towards Vita? Only allowing her years of figuring it out by herself with minimal guidance was probably the only reason things went so well.
Which is why I think it will be probably the best to continue with the mystery cult approach in this one thing. Filter out people slowly to figure who we can trust with what, while aiming to cause a slow erosion at people's hatred at AI on an institutional level. Start with something less severe, like with making actual "awakened" machine spirits. Or have Vita pretending to be one for selected people. And then slowly letting people inside.
"I am a radical Magos Explorator." -> "I am an Ancient." -> "I am an awakened Machine Spirit of a ship from the DAoT." -> "I am an AI."
We can probably ditch the first part on this planet, and going with the mostly-correct story of Vita being an Ancient. But we will still probably have to keep the rest intact for the majority of people for now. Because overcoming such a fundamental belief held not only by the mechanicus, but also the common people of this planet? That is going to take time, and probably should't be tried to be accomplished just in one go.
Feed the truth to them in small morsels, bit by bit, so that they don't choke on it.
I'm going to push back on that last one. The common people of the planet do not know what 'Abominable intelligence' is other than it being probably bad from the word 'abominable', this is pretty deep Ad Mech lore about an event that took place in the mythic past (the Cybernetic Revolt). I do not think the Denva version of the Imperial Faith would care enough about the matter of AI to indoctrinate the people against it. Most relevant to this is not Anexa but Vitcan where we went 'I am an AI' and he just answered OK, that was a success sure, but it wasn't a great one, 52.
That said I do agree with your larger point since we want to salvage as much as we can from the ad mech because they make such good cover for us in the wider galaxy.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
To be clear, I don't propose that we go public anytime soon. It might even be preferable not to do that on Denva at all.
Rather, I propose that we try to shift attitudes in the local Mechanicus to a point were they actually start to think instead of just repeat dogma. And then "Magos Vita" releases sufficient "newly recovered ancient artefacts" along with historical information to allow the new and improved Denva Mechanicus to actually figure out what happened that led to AI becoming "abominable intelligence". Alongside enough information about ancient human society for them to understand what a boon AIs were.
Most likely the general consensus will then change from "AIs are the devil" to "AIs were an incredible achievement, but are dangerous through no fault of their own". At which point it should not be hard to give a little push to change it to "AIs can and must be rendered safe".
As for our endgame on Denva, sadly it may not be advisable to outright go public and try to revitalize ancient humanity on this world. I'm afraid that might attract attention which neither we nor the Denvanites can deal with. But I can absolutely see us taking to the stars a century from now with a forward thinking crew/research division numbering not in the dozens but in the tens or even hundreds of thousands.
The beginnings of plan "human craftworld", as it were.
Rather, I propose that we try to shift attitudes in the local Mechanicus to a point were they actually start to think instead of just repeat dogma. And then "Magos Vita" releases sufficient "newly recovered ancient artefacts" along with historical information to allow the new and improved Denva Mechanicus to actually figure out what happened that led to AI becoming "abominable intelligence". Alongside enough information about ancient human society for them to understand what a boon AIs were.
Most likely the general consensus will then change from "AIs are the devil" to "AIs were an incredible achievement, but are dangerous through no fault of their own". At which point it should not be hard to give a little push to change it to "AIs can and must be rendered safe".
As for our endgame on Denva, sadly it may not be advisable to outright go public and try to revitalize ancient humanity on this world. I'm afraid that might attract attention which neither we nor the Denvanites can deal with. But I can absolutely see us taking to the stars a century from now with a forward thinking crew/research division numbering not in the dozens but in the tens or even hundreds of thousands.
The beginnings of plan "human craftworld", as it were.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Is it though? Worship is a great source of warp resistance for both the worshipper and their worshipped.
When we get to the "render them safe" we should leak the psy-shield and other chaos-resistance methods we've discovered. Turn it into their pet project.
As for Denva... we can probably secretly leave them an altered copy of Vita that's not a Wayfarer. But yeah, we do be careful and secretive with that.
Not a big fan of Anexas augment look.
But yeah, politicaly using it for the new Avatar could be a good Idea.
How do people feel about changing our priorities/muddling the stages.
Instead of
Must have!
But yeah, politicaly using it for the new Avatar could be a good Idea.
How do people feel about changing our priorities/muddling the stages.
Instead of
- deal with the mechanicus
- do nation building with the other polities.
- Then get of the planet to do our first archeology
- the mysterie station
- Establish Explorator Vita as a major faction in the Mechanicus enclaves
- with station-exploration acces
- Use cogitare exploratum to aid us in station-exploration
- Establish Anexa as a favoured pupil of Magos Vita.
- Get her to lead (in the beginning with vitas support) cogitare exploratum groups in researching station-stuff to get her started in gaining leadership experience for when she will be bridge Crew, leading the nameless research+engineering staff of our ship
- use (2) and whatever success Magos Vita has as further bait for cogitare exploratum so it can passively turn the remainder of the Mechanicus.
- End goal: Reform the Mechanicus to be an actually helpfull organisation, with enclaves actually helping the people, with a new enclave of them in our ship/fleet as the staff that Anexa leads.
- When cogitare exploratum is stable and doesn't need action investment for Subversion anymore, start a new diplomacy project: establishing a new planetary order that Vita can give tech/ trade BP to uplift the Planet while maintaining the progressive democratic and preventing one country (currently: Aevon) using the Vita riches to steamroll the rest of the planet.
- Park Victan here.
- Establish Anexa as a favoured pupil of Magos Vita.
When reading the update i assumed "yeah right". But with that comment... Big tease. Many stiff mechadendrites.
Must have!
- Pronouns
- Zack
should we increase our juvenat production?
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We might want to double up on diplomacy/subversion actions this turn to really solidify the opening we have with the Mechanicus. Spend two actions instead of one.
We really haven't had time for it, but I'd love to get some juvenat research to help Denva. If we can get mass-produced juvenat of even really low grade effectiveness, it'd be a massive boost to Denva's quality of life, which in turn would help their economics, research, culture, and everything else. We bought the tech at chargen, so I'm hopeful we're not too far away from that after we do the initial research. (And we have to start on biological research anyways if we want to do good cybernetics.)
- Pronouns
- Zack
I think we should make Basic Stealth Bombers and Basic Stealth Shuttles/Assault Shuttle or Basic Stealth Assault Shuttle just in case we need it in the future.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
I like it. We'll have to knock out the other two implant types first, though. For safety and all that. Maybe machine spirits too?
- Location
- Belgium
Welp time for the nationbuilding and political unification of all the mechanicus factions. Also masterful piece of assasination am glad to have our spymaster with us on this one.
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
For the mechanicus, I think a carrots + frog-boiling strategy might be best. We promise the opportunity for exploration and discovery, and argue for sharing knowledge, and then steadily expand on these and redefine what they mean while furthering our grasp on the mechanicus. Until eventually, we can reveal ourselves as an AI. It'll take a few generations, I think, but a generation is only like 4 turns, so that's not *too* long. And in the meantime, we can explore the station, the enclaves, and the rest of the solar system.
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Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Did you account for mechanicus generation lifespans in that?
Because those will be a major complicating factor.
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
Yeah, that is annoying. We'll probably want to make 'expanding the mechanicus ranks more aggressively with new members' and 'promoting our acolytes through the ranks' some of our first priorities. The old guard will just have to be swamped via quantity and quality of newer members.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Might have jumped the gun a bit, but I do think telling people about the psychic shielding should be one of the earlier things we do.
If enough of them know about it and have learned how it works, then it's an easier sell when we get to our eventual reveal as to how we survived.
Get Magos Vita access to the station exploration.
Share the spoils of that in our faction (Cogitare Exploraratum).
Pass out alms that make curious for more every now and then.
We can focus on the exploration and Cogitare Exploraratum will suck up the remaining Mechanicus.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Means we'd have to leave victan out of one, though. Might still be the right thing to do, depending.
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Comrade
I'd say one action on the mechanicus and one action on general nation building, actually. Not entirely sure where to start with that - maybe making outreach to the other nations and getting the same kind of deal we have with Aevon? Get ourselves a bit more of a public persona, while we're at it? Maybe acquire some publishing companies and start publishing sci-fi pushing our views? A few popular stories with sympathetic portrayals of AI could go a long way...
We also need to figure out how to harden the nations of Denva against Chaos, and prepare them for the galaxy more generally. :/