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Viva la Revolución: An Experimental Quest in Revolutionary Mexico

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gutza1 said:
You realize that Madero's policies weren't that different from the Porfiriato, and only the Zapatistas promised true reform? It says on the Wikipedia page.
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This is a very gross misunderstanding of the Revolution. Madero was a reformist and a moderate liberal who focused mostly on political change. He detested the authoritarianism of Diaz, and while he largely supported most of Diaz' modernization policies with respect to industrialization and infrastructure, he felt that too much power was being agglomerated by Diaz and his political allies by allowing American companies to invest in Mexico while simultaneously abiding by no kind of regulation whatsoever. His proposals largely appealed to the educated and the middle class, but that demographic making up only a small percentage of the country's population is the primary reason why he ultimately fell out of favor and failed as a leader. The Zapatistas and others appealed to uneducated and poverty-stricken Mexicans who wanted to seize land from the church and the wealthy and redistribute it to the poor -- a very drastic program, but ultimately that which proved most popular with the people.

I wouldn't call "land seizure" a type of reform. I *would* call the Zapatistas hardline revolutionaries. Clearly they were socialist. But I feel like describing Madero as Diaz' long-lost son does him and his supporters a bit of a disservice.
 
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[X] Los Banditos y Anarchistas. A radical solution is necessary, the state is an extraneous institution. Libertad o Morte!
[X] la Metrodad - The heart of Mexico, it is the city of Mexico and it's surrounding environs. Home of the rich, the poor, and the entitled, it is the most populated bastion of support, but at the wiles of whomever has the ears of the mover and shakers, both high and low. Home of el Profiriato
 
[X] The Zapatistas. The rich have dominated Mexico for too long, let bring forth a truly peasant solution to us all!
Igualdad y libertad!
[X] el Norte - The deserts and mountains of the north hide hardy farmers, squalid forts, and banditos. From la Baja to Chihuahua and Sonora, these lands are the most difficult to take and difficult to lose. Land is often concentrated in the hands of titled aristocrats and their haciendas.
 
Vote Porfiriato, the only man who can bring sanity and order back to mexico. The wars and killings have gone on long enough!
 
Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jan 13, 2018 at 11:00 AM, finished with 28 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X] The Zapatistas. The rich have dominated Mexico for too long, let bring forth a truly peasant solution to us all!
    [X] Los Banditos y Anarchistas. A radical solution is necessary, the state is an extraneous institution. Libertad o Morte!
    [X] la Centro - Heartland of Mexico's agriculture, the haciendas rule the roost and the peasanos do all the work for the privilege of living in a room. To feed or not to feed, that is the question, however this region is hard to swap, as the enfiefed ideals of colonial Mexico are still strong here.
    [X] la Metrodad - The heart of Mexico, it is the city of Mexico and it's surrounding environs. Home of the rich, the poor, and the entitled, it is the most populated bastion of support, but at the wiles of whomever has the ears of the mover and shakers, both high and low. Home of el Profiriato
    [x] el Norte - The deserts and mountains of the north hide hardy farmers, squalid forts, and banditos. From la Baja to Chihuahua and Sonora, these lands are the most difficult to take and difficult to lose. Land is often concentrated in the hands of titled aristocrats and their haciendas.
    [X] las Maderistas
    [X] The Maderistas. The Porfiriato is a den of corruption and perversion, Madero is the only source of redemption for our people! Viva la Madero, Viva la Revolución.
    [X] la Sur - From Oaxaca to Chiapas, this is a region of biodiversity, white sand beaches, and hot blooded politics. Separatist ideals haven't left the cultural memory, nor the discontent of it. The south is the den of the Zapatistas for now.
    [X] the Porfiriato
    [x] la Yucatan
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The current tally program tends to differentiate votes based on font size and any other tags (bold text, italics etc). It's better to merge votes so we are able to tell the results at a glance.
[X] The Zapatistas. The rich have dominated Mexico for too long, let bring forth a truly peasant solution to us all!
Number of voters: 8
gutza1, Easter, ThatGuyWithIdeas, minerva-n-memes, mcclay, darkjester, kilopi505,Random Member
[X] Los Banditos y Anarchistas. A radical solution is necessary, the state is an extraneous institution. Libertad o Morte!
Number of voters: 7
Teen Spirit, butchock, Harpsichord, RookDeSuit, Nevill, Noco, Exterminatus
[X] la Centro - Heartland of Mexico's agriculture, the haciendas rule the roost and the peasanos do all the work for the privilege of living in a room. To feed or not to feed, that is the question, however this region is hard to swap, as the enfiefed ideals of colonial Mexico are still strong here.
Number of voters: 6
gutza1, Easter, ThatGuyWithIdeas, minerva-n-memes, mcclay, iAmJimmyHoffa
[X] la Metrodad - The heart of Mexico, it is the city of Mexico and it's surrounding environs. Home of the rich, the poor, and the entitled, it is the most populated bastion of support, but at the wiles of whomever has the ears of the mover and shakers, both high and low. Home of el Profiriato
Number of voters: 6
Teen Spirit, butchock, Nevill, Noco, Random Member, Exterminatus
[x] el Norte - The deserts and mountains of the north hide hardy farmers, squalid forts, and banditos. From la Baja to Chihuahua and Sonora, these lands are the most difficult to take and difficult to lose. Land is often concentrated in the hands of titled aristocrats and their haciendas.
Number of voters: 4
tygerbright, kilopi505, Harpsichord, RookDeSuit
[X] las Maderistas
Number of voters: 2
iAmJimmyHoffa, tygerbright
[X] The Maderistas. The Porfiriato is a den of corruption and perversion, Madero is the only source of redemption for our people! Viva la Madero, Viva la Revolución.
Number of voters: 1
Pyro Hawk
[X] la Sur - From Oaxaca to Chiapas, this is a region of biodiversity, white sand beaches, and hot blooded politics. Separatist ideals haven't left the cultural memory, nor the discontent of it. The south is the den of the Zapatistas for now.
Number of voters: 1
Pyro Hawk
[X] the Porfiriato
Number of voters: 1
Tithed_Verse
[x] la Yucatan
Number of voters: 1
Tithed_Verse
 
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ThatGuyWithIdeas said:
Both the Porfiriato and the Maderistas are corrupt, only interested in securing their own power! Backing Los Banditos y Anarchistas will only ensure that Mexico will turn into an autocracy where the strong rule and abuse those who are weak! Can we support any of these options? NO! For the sake of the Thrid Republic of Yucatan... no... for the sake of all of Mexico, we must support the Zapatistas and bring the power back into the hands of the people!

Igualdad y libertad! Viva la revolución!
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Talking Realpolitik, whenever the Zapatistas strengthen their holds upon the southern parts of Mexico they cut off potential expansion for the Yucatan by replacing the thinly stretched Porfiriato forces with a more concentrated one.
 
[X] Los Banditos y Anarchistas. A radical solution is necessary, the state is an extraneous institution. Libertad o Morte!

[X] la Metrodad - The heart of Mexico, it is the city of Mexico and it's surrounding environs. Home of the rich, the poor, and the entitled, it is the most populated bastion of support, but at the wiles of whomever has the ears of the mover and shakers, both high and low. Home of el Profiriato
 
To all those who are voting for the bandits and anarchists, I must ask of you to consider who should you support very carefully. Is it really such a good idea to help such unsavory people get the power in Mexico? Allowing the bandits and the anarchists to come to power will only turn Mexico into a distopian state where the strong dominate over those who are weak. Furtheremore, the second they get their hands on Mexico, they will turn their sights towards the Third Republic of Yucatan and dash our dreams of freedom and democracy for the Mayanas into the ground and subjucate our people, in their greed for more power! We can not allow that to happen at all! Therefore, we must ensure that whoever comes to power has the same ideals as the Third Republic of Yucatan! The Zapatistas share many of our ideals, for they seek the betterment of all people from Mexic! The Zapatistas are the way towards the strengthening of the Third Republic of Yucatan!

Igualdad y libertad! Viva la revolución!
 
ThatGuyWithIdeas said:
To all those who are voting for the bandits and anarchists, I must ask of you to consider who should you support very carefully. Is it really such a good idea to help such unsavory people get the power in Mexico? Allowing the bandits and the anarchists to come to power will only turn Mexico into a distopian state where the strong dominate over those who are weak. Furtheremore, the second they get their hands on Mexico, they will turn their sights towards the Third Republic of Yucatan and dash our dreams of freedom and democracy for the Mayanas into the ground and subjucate our people, in their greed for more power! We can not allow that to happen at all! Therefore, we must ensure that whoever comes to power has the same ideals as the Third Republic of Yucatan! The Zapatistas share many of our ideals, for they seek the betterment of all people from Mexic! The Zapatistas are the way towards the strengthening of the Third Republic of Yucatan!

Igualdad y libertad! Viva la revolución!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

 
[X] The Maderistas. The Porfiriato is a den of corruption and perversion, Madero is the only source of redemption for our people! Viva la Madero, Viva la Revolución.
[X] la Sur - From Oaxaca to Chiapas, this is a region of biodiversity, white sand beaches, and hot blooded politics. Separatist ideals haven't left the cultural memory, nor the discontent of it. The south is the den of the Zapatistas for now.
 
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January 1911
  • Threadmarks
    • January 1911
    "Anarchistas y S    indicalismo"

    Red: El Porfiriato
    Pink: Las Zapatistas
    Light Grey: Los Banditos y Las Anarchistas
    Green: Third Republic of the Yucatan
    Blue: Las Maderistas
    ​
    The first month of 1911 proved to be one of great importance for Mexico. The Porfiriato, dismayed at the current failing of their regime, issued a pair of advances. One to retake the state of Puebla while a second would be launched from the south to retake Campeche from the break-away Yucatan Republic. Plans were drawn up, companies formed, and equipment organised for the two prongs. Alas this would not occur as planned, a common theme in Mexico.

    The first wave saw itself dashed against the well fortified mutineers of Puebla, who were dedicated both in their ideology and not serving the Porfiriato against. This failure, angering the generals, would be repeated not a week later at the battle of Cuetzalan. Naively believing the native Nahua would support their actions, they were met by gunfire and death. A general mutiny broke out later across the four states that constituted the remaining Metrodad in Porfiriato control, forcing the government (what was left of it) to abandon the capital with whatever they could carry. Mexico City fell soon after. Viva la Anarchista!

    The Yucatan front met a much more malleable force, for the benefit of the Porfiriato. The Yucatan Republic, tired, was initially unable to stop the Porifirato from making gains. However, to the Republic's benefit, the Zapatistas launched a southern attack, collapsing Porifiriato control in southern Veracruz and cutting off the Porfiriato army from central command in Campeche.

    This attack was born of the success of the Zapatistas' assault into the north. The caudillo controlling Michoacan simply joined with the Zapatistas, who were expecting a fight. This fight would be found in Jalisco, where the Porfiriato garrison was ejected with much distaste from the state. The governor of Colima, seeing his fate should he resist, capitulated to the Zapatistas. Within a period of three weeks, Zapata had nearly doubled his state count.

    In the far north, Madero and the caudillo Pancho Villa continued to fight, as a number of skirmishes exhausted both forces. The only change would be a successful venture into the Sonoran hinterlands by Villa's forces, which saw a number of villages not bother to fight back.

    With February incoming, the success of political radicals had been noted abroad. However their nervousness over the successes of peons and anarchists would not stop the fighting from continuing!
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Zapatistas, Maderistas, and Banditos, oh my! The Porifiato is in trouble and the revolutionaries need more support!

    ~ ~ ~ ~
    ​
    It is February of 1911, Mexico erupted into armed discontent.
    Who do you support?

    [] The Porfiriato. The President has ruled since '84, why should we turn against him now? Viva el Porfirio, Viva la Republica!

    [] The Maderistas. The Porfiriato is a den of corruption and perversion, Madero is the only source of redemption for our people! Viva la Madero, Viva la Revolución.

    [] The Zapatistas. The rich have dominated Mexico for too long, let bring forth a truly peasant solution to us all!
    Igualdad y libertad!

    [] Los Banditos y     Anarchistas. A radical solution is necessary, the state is an extraneous institution. Libertad o Morte!

    [] The Third Republic of the Yucatan. Finally united, the Third Republic stands as the one true representative of the Mayan people/

    However who you are isn't the only question brought before you. Where you are is equally important.

    Where is your support?

    [] el Norte -     The deserts and mountains of the north hide hardy farmers, squalid forts, and banditos. From la Baja to Chihuahua and Sonora, these lands are the most difficult to take and difficult to lose. Land is often concentrated in the hands of titled aristocrats and their haciendas.

    [] la Centro - Heartland of Mexico's agriculture, the haciendas rule the roost and the peasanos do all the work for the privilege of living in a room. To feed or not to feed, that is the question, however this region is hard to swap, as the enfiefed ideals of colonial Mexico are still strong here.

    [] la Metrodad - The heart of Mexico, it is the city of Mexico and it's surrounding environs. Home of the rich, the poor, and the entitled, it is the most populated bastion of support, but at the wiles of whomever has the ears of the mover and shakers, both high and low. Home of el Profiriato

    [] la Sur - From Oaxaca to Chiapas, this is a region of biodiversity, white sand beaches, and hot blooded politics. Separatist ideals haven't left the cultural memory, nor the discontent of it. The south is the den of the Zapatistas for now.

    [] la Yucatan - Ethnic Mayan states surrounding the eponymous Yucatan State, they're currently embroiled in revolution and rebellion in a search for independence.

    Mexico City has been abandoned! The Porfiriato is in trouble, what shall we do?

    [] Stay the Course -     Faith in el Presidenté is a priority. These ne'er do wells shall fall in due time.

    [] Fall Back - We believe in el Presidenté, but we should fall back to a more intelligent position and focus on winning the war.

    [] Coup (pro-Zapata) - El Presidenté is dead, long live el Presidenté.

    [] Coup (pro-Madero) - El Presidenté is dead, long live el Presidenté.

    ~ ~ ~ ~
    ​
    Sorry for the wait, we return with a vengeance.
     
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    [X] The Third Republic of the Yucatan. Finally united, the Third Republic stands as the one true representative of the Mayan people
    [X] la Yucatan - Ethnic Mayan states surrounding the eponymous Yucatan State, they're currently embroiled in revolution and rebellion in a search for independence.
    [X] Coup (pro-Zapato) - El Presidenté is dead, long live el Presidenté.
     
    [X] The Third Republic of the Yucatan. Finally united, the Third Republic stands as the one true representative of the Mayan people
    [X] la Yucatan - Ethnic Mayan states surrounding the eponymous Yucatan State, they're currently embroiled in revolution and rebellion in a search for independence.
    [X] Coup (pro-Zapato) - El Presidenté is dead, long live el Presidenté.
     
    [X] The Third Republic of the Yucatan. Finally united, the Third Republic stands as the one true representative of the Mayan people
    [X] la Sur - From Oaxaca to Chiapas, this is a region of biodiversity, white sand beaches, and hot blooded politics. Separatist ideals haven't left the cultural memory, nor the discontent of it. The south is the den of the Zapatistas for now.

    Time for the Yucatan to spread, brothers!

    [X] Fall Back - We believe in el Presidenté, but we should fall back to a more intelligent position and focus on winning the war.
     
    [X]The Porfiriato
    [X]el Nord
    [X] Fall Back

    It's Ok for the revolution to start spilling now, right?


    Ok, fixed it.
     
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    iAmJimmyHoffa said:
    This is a very gross misunderstanding of the Revolution. Madero was a reformist and a moderate liberal who focused mostly on political change. He detested the authoritarianism of Diaz, and while he largely supported most of Diaz' modernization policies with respect to industrialization and infrastructure, he felt that too much power was being agglomerated by Diaz and his political allies by allowing American companies to invest in Mexico while simultaneously abiding by no kind of regulation whatsoever. His proposals largely appealed to the educated and the middle class, but that demographic making up only a small percentage of the country's population is the primary reason why he ultimately fell out of favor and failed as a leader. The Zapatistas and others appealed to uneducated and poverty-stricken Mexicans who wanted to seize land from the church and the wealthy and redistribute it to the poor -- a very drastic program, but ultimately that which proved most popular with the people.

    I wouldn't call "land seizure" a type of reform. I *would* call the Zapatistas hardline revolutionaries. Clearly they were socialist. But I feel like describing Madero as Diaz' long-lost son does him and his supporters a bit of a disservice.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The lower classes of Mexico suffered from radical problems, and radical problems require radical solutions. The time for moderation has long ended. Viva de Zapatistas!
     
    [X] The Third Republic of the Yucatan. Finally united, the Third Republic stands as the one true representative of the Mayan people
    [X] la Sur - From Oaxaca to Chiapas, this is a region of biodiversity, white sand beaches, and hot blooded politics. Separatist ideals haven't left the cultural memory, nor the discontent of it. The south is the den of the Zapatistas for now.
    [X] Fall Back
     
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