Ultimate Hangman's Gambit III - La Pasión del Amor y Muertes (Pueblo Victory)

Well, looks like TFS was... well, I suppose that's probably third party.

Okay, judging from the fact that we had no other kill on Night 1, the role layout is probably this:

5 Vanillas, 5 Power roles (Doctor, Cop, 3 Masons), 1 SK, 2 Maf.

We're still hunting the remaining two scum.

We should not assume 1 SK 2 Maf; 1 SK 3 Maf is perfectly possible under C9++ rules. We can't assume Doctor (given the possibly of NK overlap), and perhaps LDJ is a 1-shot cop, C9++ allows for CCMMMMT, for example, which would be "1 Cop, 3 Masons, 1x Mafia Goon, 1x Mafia RB, 1x Mafia Godfather, 1x Serial Killer, the rest are VTs"

Of courset here are alot of possiblities and Deku may not even be following strict C9++

So let's not rely on only needing to find 2 Mafia. There may well be 3.
 
Also, @LostDeviljho, did you get Roleblocked or do you have a result? If you got RBed, that tells us stuff about the Mafia team. If you didn't, that also tells us stuff about the Mafia team (namely that they're pretty stupid)
 
So!
  • I'm not dead.
  • I got no result from Ellf last night. Not negative, not positive, nothing.
  • The protector may be a jailer, which would explain the above.
  • Tenfold is conclusively 3rd party, considering his name color.
 
So!
  • I'm not dead.
  • I got no result from Ellf last night. Not negative, not positive, nothing.
  • The protector may be a jailer, which would explain the above.
  • Tenfold is conclusively 3rd party, considering his name color.

Yeah this is about what I expected. You got RBed. So my guess here is Mafia Roleblocker rather than just Town Jailkeeper. However, Town Jailkeeper is still entirely possible. Either way, we should just count LDJ in there with JBJ and Nani as "highly likely to be town for claim reasons but won't be generating new info via their roles" and press on.
 
Okay on tablet now. Marginally better than phone but I'll take what I can get.

Some thoughts:

- Tenfolds was SK. Or the obligatory neutral killing role. Neat
- Still doesn't explain wtf happened on night one.
- Snark is dead. Not good, he was one of the more active posters in this thread.
- Should probably look at his list, probably a member of the maf was under suspicion and the maf decided to off him.
- That or the maf offed him so we would all think that and end up lynching a member of the list and letting the actual maf get off scotfree.
- We're going in circles point is we should look at that list in detail.
- We've probably got a roleblocker here. Either the maf has a roleblocker or some moron decided now would be the right time to block the investigator.

I need food.
 
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I gotta admit, Tenfold being an SK kinda fucked up all my analysis.
Well, I suppose it was too much to hope for to get the whole mafia before day two's up. I needed some ego deflation.
 
So!
  • I'm not dead.
  • I got no result from Ellf last night. Not negative, not positive, nothing.
  • The protector may be a jailer, which would explain the above.
  • Tenfold is conclusively 3rd party, considering his name color.
On the one hand, Ellf was one of those I was suspecting.
On the other hand, it was mostly due to how he acted around Tenfold, which... matters less now, obviously.
Urgh, I need to put up tabs in another window or something, but offline time is Automata time...
 
Like seriously what the hell happened on night one. That's the question I'm trying to figure out.

If we had a doctor that'd be one thing but if we have a roleblocker that's another thing.

Or I guess we could have a roleblocker on the maf's side but that doesn't explain night one.

Or like, the maf decided to try to off tenfolds who had night immunity. Which would be hilarious but highly unlikely and if that were the case that'd say more about the maf than anything.
 
So, should we go with Snark's list for possible suspects to press for this day?

I guess. Again odds are the maf got scared and decided to off Snark because 'You know too much.'

Then again it could be 'We know they'll look at the list so let's off him to get them looking in the wrong direction.'

That last is like, unlikely imo.
 
So, should we go with Snark's list for possible suspects to press for this day?

We don't just "go with Snark's list" we react to it and form our own opinions, since of course there's always the possibilty of strange Mafia WIFOM. We carefully evaluate LV, Icarus, Ellf, and Gen_Gen, but we don't say "these are the only people we evaluate" or "these people are automatically Mafia" because this could also potentially play into Mafia hand. We form ideas and discuss them, and we take into account what Snark said. I'm going to start there. I think I might start with LV or Icarus. I will reread what they've posted. LV was Snark's top scumread besides TFS.

Like seriously what the hell happened on night one. That's the question I'm trying to figure out.

If we had a doctor that'd be one thing but if we have a roleblocker that's another thing.

Or I guess we could have a roleblocker on the maf's side but that doesn't explain night one.

Or like, the maf decided to try to off tenfolds who had night immunity. Which would be hilarious but highly unlikely and if that were the case that'd say more about the maf than anything.

Here are my thoughts for what may happened N1.

Scenario 1: Shot Overlaps. In this scenario, TFS and Mafia both shot Shards. I find this... possible, but unlikely. Although Shards was not the best NK for a vigi, there's no reason Mafia couldn't shoot him. Of course, the odds of them both shooting Shards, not super high.

Scenario 2: Doctor, Veteran, or Jailkeeper Saves either Mafia or SK victim. In this scenario, Mafia or SK shot someone who was saved by a town blue role. This seems fully plausible to me. Most likely Mafia KP was stopped, since if TFS' KP was stopped he might claim that he was RBed/target doctored rather than that he shot Shards.

Scenario 2. b: Mafia Shot TFS:
This would be hilarious. TFS returned GUILTY, which means he picked the extra night life. Mafia shooting him would have been funny.

Scenario 3: Mafia RBed TFS, shot Shards: This, like Scenario 1, requires Mafia to decide to shoot Shards, and TFS shot someone else but was RBed by the Mafia RB, and Mafia shot Shards. When he claimed, TFS decided to take credit for the only flip.

So, It's not required that we had a town blue role involved in the singular N1 Nightkill.

That being said, I think the most likely scenario is Scenario 1 or Scenario 2. I think TFS probably did shoot Shards. If he was Rbed or his target was saved, when he claimed Vigi he would be quasi-truthful and be like "yeah, but I was RBed last night" and hope that the town JK corroborates him. Could 2.b or 3 be possible? sure.

I think a more interesting thing to think about here is, what was mafia thinking yesterday? They knew TFS wasn't Mafia. They knew, potentially, that he was a killing role, like Vigilante. They might have suspected he was the SK, since LDJ had a guilty check on him. In this situation, does Mafia push him? Remain silent? Oppose killing him? We haven't yet flipped a Mafia (which would give us a lot of information about how people would act) but Mafia definitely knew going in to the end of D2 that TFS was NOT Mafia, something that we didn't know. So they may have acted differently, and this is worth analyzing.
 
Well if we need someone random to pressure to start off, the dice picked Icarus.

@Icarus has made 20 posts in this game. 8 of them had a word count greater than or equal to 50. Two of them had a word count greater than or equal to 100. His recent major posts were trying to ask others sort through the possibilities and evidence regarding TFS and some waffling about the D1 evidence and whether or not TFS is Mafia. It's worth noting that before we get too much on Icarus' ass about this, Deadly Snark has this to say:

Like I'm fairly certain @TenfoldShields' grief seed is like basically fully darkened at this point and he's just trying to go out in a blaze of distractory glory that might be able to buy his teammates time to do some work on the thread and try to bait people's reactions out like yours @Icarus so that we'd suspect you and miss an chance of getting one of the other Mafia.
 
Scenario 3: Mafia RBed TFS, shot Shards: This, like Scenario 1, requires Mafia to decide to shoot Shards, and TFS shot someone else but was RBed by the Mafia RB, and Mafia shot Shards. When he claimed, TFS decided to take credit for the only flip.
This one doesn't make any sense. The maf kill flavor is different from the one Tenfold claimed, as we saw last night.
 
This one doesn't make any sense. The maf kill flavor is different from the one Tenfold claimed, as we saw last night.

Ah, good point. Sorry, I have a blind spot for flavor and often don't consider it game-relevant, as you may have noticed from some of the things I said D1. I'll try harder.

Care for an answer to this, @Icarus?

Icarus tends to post in the early afternoon or late evening (my time, at least), without a huge amount of posting in the mid afternoon / early evening. On weekends he has been known to post in mornings. So we should expect no responses from him in the next 1-2 hours assuming he keeps to his usual schedule.
 
Care for an answer to this, @Icarus?

Fuck you guys for harping on me not vomiting a wall of text every day.

Like, if I was actually a mafia I would just write loads of nonsense every day since apparently that's all that matters to you people. You don't need to write out a fucking thesis statement to say "Why was there only 1 kill last night?"

We probably still have four power roles alive. (2 Masons, Nani and Joe, LDJ as claimed investigator who got TFS's guilt, so they're probably town).

The remaining unknowns are either the doctor, the vanillas, or the maf.

It is okay to lynch a vanilla. Maf is preferable. Doctor is bad. If someone claims doctor to avoid being lynched and no one counterclaims? We don't lynch. If someone counterclaims? Well, we lynch the one who did the original claim. Then, assuming we lynched the doctor, we lynch the scum who counterclaimed, and we look at his posts to find the other partner.

Counterpoint: If the mafia was reasonably certain that there was no doctor, they could keep that in their back pocket for later. At the very least doubt every role claim.
 
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