Remove ads

Type Moon General

Angelicon said:
Expanding fights is one thing and adding filler to it is another thing. I am not asking for them to talk about ranks and ''power-levels'' for minutes, explaining how the shit goes on. Problem is that they were cutting small parts of canon(like the talk in the previous episode) and as seen with this episode, outright changing parts of canon.

Illya gets interested in him because while he was a non-factor previously, he suddenly fired an arrow strong enough to level the cemetery and force Herakles to block it. It is enough of a threat that Herakles turns his back to Saber and Shirou to block it. Also mind you, Illya has no idea whether Archer is a ''no-name fuck'' or not. To her, he is simply an Heroic Spirit who hides his identity.

Saber killing Herakles without using her true NP would make Illya order Berserker to either kill them or get interested in Saber because she killed Berserker while Archer couldn't. Yeah, that's the problem here. Illya gets interested in Archer while she was previously interested in Saber because apparently Archer poses more of a threat than Saber. Anime showed the exact opposite of this yet somehow Illya still gets interested in Archer.

Not to mention, that somehow Herakles heals several times faster than he does in canon. Since they added the filler part of Saber killing Herakles, they had to fix that up so let's simply boost Herakles' healing speed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe it's all in service to not having something as stupid as 'That one blow killed him five times!' come up later?

It's hard to see where they're going with this just yet.
 
Angelicon said:
Illya gets interested in him because while he was a non-factor previously, he suddenly fired an arrow strong enough to level the cemetery and force Herakles to block it. It is enough of a threat that Herakles turns his back to Saber and Shirou to block it. Also mind you, Illya has no idea whether Archer is a ''no-name fuck'' or not. To her, he is simply an Heroic Spirit who hides his identity.

Saber killing Herakles without using her true NP would make Illya order Berserker to either kill them or get interested in Saber because she killed Berserker while Archer couldn't. Yeah, that's the problem here. Illya gets interested in Archer while she was previously interested in Saber because apparently Archer poses more of a threat than Saber. Anime showed the exact opposite of this yet somehow Illya still gets interested in Archer.

Not to mention, that somehow Herakles heals several times faster than he does in canon. Since they added the filler part of Saber killing Herakles, they had to fix that up so let's simply boost Herakles' healing speed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except Archer was a non-factor previously. As was clearly shown by his vanilla arrows being utterly incapable of causing any kind of damage to Hercules, even when Rin wasted a ton of her gems locking him down in a Graviga spell or whatever. Ilya explicitly ordered Hercules to ignore him because she thought he was a pathetic jobber. Saber killed Hercules with something that was close enough to her 'true' NP that the distinction really doesn't matter. And either way, it was only one death. Herc's got 12. Ilya was probably entirely secure in the knowledge that Hercules would swiftly wear Saber down - and once Saber's gone, nobody else is left who could even come close to taking Herc in a fair fight. Thus, she still had no cause to Get Serious.

Then Archer did fire an arrow so powerful that Hercules had to turn his back on Shirou and Saber to block it. It did nuke the entire graveyard. Suddenly Ilya realizes she's facing two Servants with the power to hurt Hercules rather than one. Only Archer can do it from 4km away, before Hercules can get in range for sick Flash Kicks. Hence, she ranks him as more of a threat than Saber. Hence she retreats before any more lives can be lost.
 
I totally buy it. I mean, I've never been as interested in Saber as in Archer - and I don't even give that much of a shit about Archer.

More seriously, why do we have to proceed from the assumption that Illya's telling the whole truth? Maybe she's just being a bitch because she can. Maybe she somehow senses some kind of connection between Archer and Shirou already (especially since Shirou identified that arrow-fragment on sight despite not being Archer's master), but she knows that's completely impossible and ridiculous and the most she's willing to say is that Archer is officially more interesting than Saber to her, personally.
 
Last edited:
I'm perfectly fine with Ufotable cutting and adding things in UBW as long as its good. The past few episodes were hit and miss with pacing. A lot of nothing happened until the end. The first episodes was the most tolerable due to it being Rin were focused on and she's pretty fun. Ep 2 was even worse since the best part was Rin being funny not Kirei bullshitting. This episode was pretty great since things happened and it was a joy to watch.

The only issue someone could have would be with both Saber and Archer killing Berserker but Illya only is interested in Archer. That can still be easily explained a way by "this no name lame ass Archer to one shot the most powerful servant in the war? Well...shit!" not to mention being an Archer who can take Berserker's life a mile away makes him a bigger threat range wise.
 
Angelicon said:
Not to mention, that somehow Herakles heals several times faster than he does in canon. Since they added the filler part of Saber killing Herakles, they had to fix that up so let's simply boost Herakles' healing speed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, he does heal that fast in canon, when the God Hand is tripped. See the Fate route, and Rin blowing his head off, and his recovery after his fight with Archer. Saber blowing him partially in two was clearly meant to represent the God Hand activating. And really, Saber has like three different ways you could bullshit a means (and this is the Nasuverse, bullshitting is the name of the game) of dropping a life on a Watsonian level, and on a Doylist they needed to show off the God Hand somehow without the previous establishment of it via Fate. This is as good a means as any.

And Zerban gives pretty good reasoning for why Ilya would pull a tactical retreat without them going and showing the full gorefest, which they weren't going to do anyway.
 
Kylar said:
No, he does heal that fast in canon, when the God Hand is tripped. See the Fate route, and Rin blowing his head off, and his recovery after his fight with Archer. Saber blowing him partially in two was clearly meant to represent the God Hand activating.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thing is, God Hand healing is inconsistent even in the VN. By the end Archer vs Herc, where he was a bit worse off than he was after getting beamu'd here, it's said it would take several minutes to heal the non-fatal stuff. When Rin blow's his head off, he just comes right back, but I guess that's because he only had to heal one body part.

Godhand healing inconsistent, it no-selling anything B-Rank and below isn't.

Truth be told my head is hurting from all of this. I'm out.
 
I thought by now you guys would know that Nasu isn't consistent, and he's a writer who constantly changes his mind. Its not so bad when you've got just one thing that the author changed their minds on, but Nasu does it for just about everything. You could say he's a bit of a... unreliable narrator too.
 
midnightmissiles said:
I thought by now you guys would know that Nasu isn't consistent, and he's a writer who constantly changes his mind. Its not so bad when you've got just one thing that the author changed their minds on, but Nasu does it for just about everything. You could say he's a bit of a... unreliable narrator too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We all know this. Usually, the inconsistent thing isn't the abilities possessed, but the way they're presented.

Why am I still here?
 
Meh said:
Thing is, God Hand healing is inconsistent even in the VN. By the end Archer vs Herc, where he was a bit worse off than he was after getting beamu'd here, it's said it would take several minutes to heal the non-fatal stuff. When Rin blow's his head off, he just comes right back, but I guess that's because he only had to heal one body part.

Godhand healing inconsistent, it no-selling anything B-Rank and below isn't.

Truth be told my head is hurting from all of this. I'm out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You know, I wouldn't mind if they dropped the Rank stuff from this series all together. It's always felt a bit awkward to me. Just say Hercules is really freaking tough and able to shrug off most blows without putting a number/word on it.
 
The Last One said:
You know, I wouldn't mind if they dropped the Rank stuff from this series all together. It's always felt a bit awkward to me. Just say Hercules is really freaking tough and able to shrug off most blows without putting a number/word on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
True. But the ranks measure a lot of other stuff..srw gd weob vwrvsfjdczv

Eh, I'm out. Hopefully until the next ep.
 
The Last One said:
You know, I wouldn't mind if they dropped the Rank stuff from this series all together. It's always felt a bit awkward to me. Just say Hercules is really freaking tough and able to shrug off most blows without putting a number/word on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Notice how they haven't mentioned actual ranks of capabilities once in the show since it started? Yea.

Edit: Woops, looks like I was wrong. But they barely mention ranks and show us the capabilities of the Servants instead of telling us how crazy they are.
 
Last edited:
The Last One said:
You know, I wouldn't mind if they dropped the Rank stuff from this series all together. It's always felt a bit awkward to me. Just say Hercules is really freaking tough and able to shrug off most blows without putting a number/word on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This would make this soo much better. Its like Nasu knew people like SBers existed and wanted to please them while making his own pretty cool story. Then he got older and likely realized that was a terrible mistake.
 
Meh said:
Nope. He's still using them in Mahoyo and Extra. Nope, he doesn't consider it a mistake.

And their use in Mahoyo is even vaguer than usual
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There is no point in this unless its just pure game mechanics, but considering Nasu and how vague he is its even worse. At least none of the Fate anime likes to go into detail about their power levels and later make it inconsistent as shit. We know Gae Bolg is OP simply from the statement "It reverse Cause and Effect." that sounds like some Bullshit OP weapon. Saber has Excaibur which itself is self explanatory. Archer just used a nuke. Diarmuid has a weapon that ignores your uber powerful magic. Iskander traps you in his own reality, and curbstomps you with his army of badasses from the time he was curbstomping the old world and Gilgamesh is OP period.

No one really needs the rank BS. It can work better in a game but not an anime or hell even a VN.
 
Sergarr said:
Then please tell me the exact differences between B-rank and C-rank. Or C-rank and D-rank.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mystery. One major thing about nasuverse magecraft is that things with higher levels of mystery will overide lower levels of magecraft. Also there are certain abilities that need the rank or they don't make sense. Or do you want to explain why if all god hand does is give super durability that gae bolg still fails and different attacks that have vastly different power levels can have the lower one work and the higher one fail.
 
That's a non-explanation. Can you give an exact mathematical equation or at least a set of inequalities which can determine the rank of a skill, parameter or a Noble Phantasm depending on something objective?

If not, then you basically admit that the rank levels are bullshit.
 
Sergarr said:
That's a non-explanation. Can you give an exact mathematical equation or at least a set of inequalities which can determine the rank of a skill, parameter or a Noble Phantasm depending on something objective?

If not, then you basically admit that the rank levels are bullshit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In nasuverse its supposedly based on how close something is to the root. The closer to the root the higher the mystery, increasing the rank. Mages in nasuverse seem to be able to reliably tell what ranks things are. Just because in real life we have no root and therefore no way to tell how close something is to the root doesnt mean ranks are bullshit in universe.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top