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Type Moon General

While I understand this is a generally bad idea, I checked the wiki and got this as a result from the source list.

Speaking of which, the information (souls) making up the Servants return to the main body at the same time as the death of the Servant, and the main body can know, as records, about the actions of the Servants as if reading a book.
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So theoretically, a servant resummoned would on the intellectual level the interactions between his prior clone and everyone else.
 
Mizu said:
I'm taking it those summaries don't mention what they get up to in their own summoning, or who they ended up facing in battle? The whole point of identifying enemy Servants would kinda be wrecked otherwise.

By the way, I've got a question.
Why was Archer EMIYA, a Counter Guardian, summoned as a Heroic Spirit? Aren't they fundamentally different beings?
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Counter guardians are a specific subset of heroic spirits apparently
 
Mizu said:
I'm taking it those summaries don't mention what they get up to in their own summoning, or who they ended up facing in battle? The whole point of identifying enemy Servants would kinda be wrecked otherwise.

By the way, I've got a question.
Why was Archer EMIYA, a Counter Guardian, summoned as a Heroic Spirit? Aren't they fundamentally different beings?
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He was summonable because Servants fundamentally aren't Heroic Spirits. They're copies of pieces of Heroic Spirits, having lost a lot of their powers in order to ft into the class container. Counter Guardians are similar enough in nature to Heroic Spirits(dead person of power, has their soul stored in the Throne of Heroes, occasionally can interfere with The World) that in a special situation where you summon with a catalyst specific to that Counter Guardian, you can pull it off.

There's also examples of beings that are both Counter Guardian and Heroic Spirit, most notably Jeanne d' Arc. Heroic Spirit kind of trumps the Counter Guardian status though.
 
Xellos said:
He was summonable because Servants fundamentally aren't Heroic Spirits. They're copies of pieces of Heroic Spirits, having lost a lot of their powers in order to ft into the class container. Counter Guardians are similar enough in nature to Heroic Spirits(dead person of power, has their soul stored in the Throne of Heroes, occasionally can interfere with The World) that in a special situation where you summon with a catalyst specific to that Counter Guardian, you can pull it off.

There's also examples of beings that are both Counter Guardian and Heroic Spirit, most notably Jeanne d' Arc. Heroic Spirit kind of trumps the Counter Guardian status though.
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Huh. Interesting. Thanks for the answer!
What would happen if a Heroic Spirit was summoned in full, compared to their Servant status in the HGW? How would one compare to a Servant version of themselves? Could, for example, a HS version of Heracles win against the Servant version of Gilgamesh Archer?
 
Mizu said:
Huh. Interesting. Thanks for the answer!
What would happen if a Heroic Spirit was summoned in full, compared to their Servant status in the HGW? How would one compare to a Servant version of themselves? Could, for example, a HS version of Heracles win against the Servant version of Gilgamesh Archer?
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Maybe. HS's are supposed to be nigh-omnipotents, but Gilgamesh is so broken that he might be able to get a win without Ea. Ea is a definite win though if he can fire it.
 
Mizu said:
Huh. Interesting. Thanks for the answer!
What would happen if a Heroic Spirit was summoned in full, compared to their Servant status in the HGW? How would one compare to a Servant version of themselves? Could, for example, a HS version of Heracles win against the Servant version of Gilgamesh Archer?
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Full Heroic Spirits are pretty much gods. You can't really compare them in terms of combat potential to Servants because humans can't really perceive actual Heroic Spirits on the rare occasions they appear.

We apparently see the after-effects that get interpreted as natural disasters such as earthquakes or typhoons though.
 
Xellos said:
Full Heroic Spirits are pretty much gods. You can't really compare them in terms of combat potential to Servants because humans can't really perceive actual Heroic Spirits on the rare occasions they appear.

We apparently see the after-effects that get interpreted as natural disasters such as earthquakes or typhoons though.
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Interesting.
Is it possible for one to be a HS and still alive? Or can you only become one after death? For that matter, the Throne is outside of time, no? Wouldn't that mean every potential HS, ever, is there at once?
 
Mizu said:
Interesting.
Is it possible for one to be a HS and still alive? Or can you only become one after death? For that matter, the Throne is outside of time, no? Wouldn't that mean every potential HS, ever, is there at once?
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Yes, every potential HS, ever, is there at once. It's theoretically possible to become a Heroic Spirit while still alive, but it won't be a power-boost so much as you getting identified as a person who will be stuck in Throne of Heroes after death., instead of the normal 'chop off everything except the Origin and maybe a few things directly related to it, back down you go' that the average soul receives after death.
 
Hold on a second. The Heroic Spirit is the legendary figure absorbed by the Throne of Heroes. But in some cases...well, take Lancer of Black. He's definitely more powerful as a Servant than he was as a mortal, what with the twisted folklore that lets him use Legend of Dracula for a boost.

Or Medusa, who can only use Bellephoron and Pegasus because of her Servant status.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Hold on a second. The Heroic Spirit is the legendary figure absorbed by the Throne of Heroes. But in some cases...well, take Lancer of Black. He's definitely more powerful as a Servant than he was as a mortal, what with the twisted folklore that lets him use Legend of Dracula for a boost.

Or Medusa, who can only use Bellephoron and Pegasus because of her Servant status.
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That's also part of the Heroic Spirit, though I'm not sure the thing about Medusa is accurate. I mean, it's possible, but as we've seen before, it's not like the actual people didn't have some fairly ridiculous stuff. Arturia is proof of that. A better example would be Lancelot, whose only NP that he had as Berserker that he would actually have in life being Arondight. Also, Nasu Medusa is a fairly odd case on her own, since it's sort of implied through the flashbacks that she was created retroactively by peoples belief in her and her sisters. Also, divine spirit... sort of. It's fairly complicated to explain.

Person in life, Heroic Spirit, and the Servant all have some differences between them.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Hold on a second. The Heroic Spirit is the legendary figure absorbed by the Throne of Heroes. But in some cases...well, take Lancer of Black. He's definitely more powerful as a Servant than he was as a mortal, what with the twisted folklore that lets him use Legend of Dracula for a boost.

Or Medusa, who can only use Bellephoron and Pegasus because of her Servant status.
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Servant!Lancer of Black is more powerful then Mortal!Lancer of Black, but weaker then Heroic Spirit!Lancer of Black.

Think of it this way: When they become a Heroic Spirit, they become god-tier, but then get nerfed to fit inside the Servant container.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Hold on a second. The Heroic Spirit is the legendary figure absorbed by the Throne of Heroes. But in some cases...well, take Lancer of Black. He's definitely more powerful as a Servant than he was as a mortal, what with the twisted folklore that lets him use Legend of Dracula for a boost.

Or Medusa, who can only use Bellephoron and Pegasus because of her Servant status.
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Fake Assassin was summoned as a Servant despite being a being constructed entirely out of legends. So, it might be an aspect of the Grail.
 
Wait, we're using spoiler tags now? It's a bit late for that don't you think?
 
Soulgazer said:
Fake Assassin was summoned as a Servant despite being a being constructed entirely out of legends. So, it might be an aspect of the Grail.
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He technically wasn't constructed out of legends. There was a samurai named Sasaki Kojiro, there was a swordsman who used Monohoshizao, and there was a nameless farmer who possibly went by the name of Tsuda who developed Tsubame Gaeshi because he really fucking hated birds. Assassin is the nameless farmer, but he's been molded so that he was summoned with Monoshizao and some of the aspects of the other two guys. It's why he's illiterate, yet suave and follows Bushido.
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
He technically wasn't constructed out of legends. There was a samurai named Sasaki Kojiro, there was a swordsman who used Monohoshizao, and there was a nameless farmer who possibly went by the name of Tsuda who developed Tsubame Gaeshi because he really fucking hated birds. Assassin is the nameless farmer, but he's been molded so that he was summoned with Monoshizao and some of the aspects of the other two guys. It's why he's illiterate, yet suave and follows Bushido.
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That's what I mean. One man does something great, a legend is created about him. Another, something else. Those legends can be mashed together to create a swordsmen who can match/surpass other servants in combat. The legends of Sasaki and the Monoshizao user were added on retroactively, like Vlad's legends were added onto his HS entry.
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
He technically wasn't constructed out of legends. There was a samurai named Sasaki Kojiro, there was a swordsman who used Monohoshizao, and there was a nameless farmer who possibly went by the name of Tsuda who developed Tsubame Gaeshi because he really fucking hated birds. Assassin is the nameless farmer, but he's been molded so that he was summoned with Monoshizao and some of the aspects of the other two guys. It's why he's illiterate, yet suave and follows Bushido.
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I always figured a lot of the weirdness with him could be explained by Medea deliberately mucking about with the Summoning so her "Assassin" class Servant would in fact be a perfect defender capable of fighting even Berzerkules to a draw.
 
Soulgazer said:
That's what I mean. One man does something great, a legend is created about him. Another, something else. Those legends can be mashed together to create a swordsmen who can match/surpass other servants in combat. The legends of Sasaki and the Monoshizao user were added on retroactively, like Vlad's legends were added onto his HS entry.
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Not how it works. There is no Sasaki HS, and the farmer was really just that good before his summoning. He just didn't have the stats to match while he was alive. Medea essentially summoned the empty Assassin container, stuffed the farmer inside, and had him take on aspects of the other two.

Vlad's closer to Andersen and Bathory in terms of retroactive stuff being added onto their legend.
Wade Garrett said:
I always figured a lot of the weirdness with him could be explained by Medea deliberately mucking about with the Summoning so her "Assassin" class Servant would in fact be a perfect defender capable of fighting even Berzerkules to a draw.
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She was deliberately mucking about, and it wouldn't be a surprise if that's what she'd been intending all along.
 
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-Rin's shield, Gil appearing, etc: Nasu's idea
-The director likes Illya so she'll be featured considerably
-Taiga is important, she will appear a lot
-Shinji will appear more than in the VN
(source: some guy humanity-san retweeted who went to the event)
 
Unfortunately, no reactions from Lancer Is From Zero Guy yet.
(I need to watch the episode too)
 
I hope the raws are out. Need to watch in glorious 720p.

EDIT: SUBS ARE OUT

I'll try to grab a few screen shots and learn how to make webums.
 
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