- Location
- Florida
Ok quick question.
A dead apistle or a true ancestor gets isekaid.
How screwed is that world?
A dead apistle or a true ancestor gets isekaid.
How screwed is that world?
Type Moon General
- Location
- Ireland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Why do you think it would be screwed?
- Location
- Florida
Well, because they are vampires arent they?
Bloodsuckers, and True ancestors can create Dead apostles, who thirst for blood?
I'm still trying to understand Tsukihime, so I'm trying to understand what would happen if a true ancestor or a dead apostle was summoned to another world, specifically, one that wasnt Gaia itself.
Bloodsuckers, and True ancestors can create Dead apostles, who thirst for blood?
I'm still trying to understand Tsukihime, so I'm trying to understand what would happen if a true ancestor or a dead apostle was summoned to another world, specifically, one that wasnt Gaia itself.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If it's a general question about the setting it can be asked here, but for fanfic premises and hypotheticals such as this, go to this thread, @Squeegeman.
Mizu
Software Developer
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
Dead Apostle are vampire and can make undead ('the Dead') minions, but generally not more Dead Apostle to my understanding; it's very rare and needs particular conditions, and even then there's a year wait-time til you know if it happened or not. True Ancestor also can't make more of themselves, nor undead minions IIRC, but all of them barring two are killed as of 1994 Tsukihime; no clue on mainline /Fate.
That said I don't think either would be a threat to the world itself?
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
True Ancestors turn people they bite into Dead Apostles, its where DAs came from in the first place.
Also, 'how screwed is that world' is... like, what world are you talking about? Your average Dead Apostle isn't that far off from any other vampire in fiction, honestly. The threat they pose depends hugely on their capabilities relative to the world they end up in.
fallacies
Puyo Mage
Hypothetically, they could give birth to more True Ancestors the usual way?
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The later developments in Fate make it seem implausible for Crimson Moon Brunestud to have ever existed in the past (ironic given the company is called Type-Moon), so even more than 'there are no True Ancestors left' it would be something along the lines of 'there were never True Ancestors.'
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Roa didn't meet Arcueid so the whole massacre likely didn't happen.
Nah he did. His death is why Blackmore died:
Case Files Clocktower timeline said:
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Go figure.
- Location
- Florida
So going by multiverse theory, and the fact that Arthur and Artoria exist.
Could there be in essence people who live in alternative worlds qho are, in essence, alternative Arcueids?
By that, I mean, besides different names, appearances and personalities, and genders, they are still created by the true ancestors to kill off dead apostles and demon lords and have the potential to become Archetype Earth.
Could there be in essence people who live in alternative worlds qho are, in essence, alternative Arcueids?
By that, I mean, besides different names, appearances and personalities, and genders, they are still created by the true ancestors to kill off dead apostles and demon lords and have the potential to become Archetype Earth.
Crimson Flight
华裔机甲迷
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Neco-Arc I guess.
Honestly if you're writing fanfic just go wild you don't need to worry about this stuff too hard.
fallacies
Puyo Mage
Some translations on the Age of Will.
Merlin states at the beginning of the Garden of Avalon:
That is to say, it's a hypothetical in which the turning / rotating / revolving of the Star by the "the unidentified subject" is concluded. That being the case, the second half of the sentence renders as:
This is rendered by canonrap as "after which we will establish ourselves in the heavens."
There are some issues in the rendition of the subsequent sentence or two, but nothing as significant.
That said, 意思を回せない is lit. "incapable of (initiating) the rotation / revolution of consciousness / volition." It's interesting that "rotation / revolution" would be invoked here, given that "the unidentified subject" is also "rotating" the Star and the Cosmos.
We can surmise that "the unidentified subject" would be "whatever assumes the Seat of Primacy."
Meanwhile, the beings regarded by Merlin as "humans" are specifically something not yet liberated from the flesh, and therefore obsolete as of the Age of Will — wherein something aside from "humanity," borne of the capability to exercise volition absent the flesh, has attained the Seat of Primacy, and "rotates" the Cosmos.
In this context, "rotation / revolution" presumably refers to what the humans of the current era do to the Star / the Planet — i.e. "the assertion of the Human Order."
Of course, that's obviously all just speculation.
For more information on "liberation from the flesh," please refer to Saber Wars II.
For more information on the Seat of Primacy, please refer to the Garden of Avalon quote from Merlin at the bottom of this.
Meanwhile, on the relationship between what Merlin says above and Gilgamesh's dream in CCC:
Meanwhile, Garden of Avalon gives that aside from "casting aside the flesh," the circumstances of the Age of Will seem to require "the revolution of the Cosmos" by "whatever has claimed the Seat of Primacy." Again, please refer to Saber Wars II.
Merlin states at the beginning of the Garden of Avalon:
Garden of Avalon said:
For comparison:
canonrap translates 星を回す事が終われば (hoshi wo mawasu koto ga owareba) as "when this star of ours ceases to rotate." This is misleading. Specifically, を (wo) is a particle to indicate that the noun preceding is an object being acted upon. That is, a literal translation would be something like this:canonrap said:
星を回す事が終われば
if the matter is concluded (事が終われば) [of] the turning (回す) [of] the Star (星) [by unidentified subject]
That is to say, it's a hypothetical in which the turning / rotating / revolving of the Star by the "the unidentified subject" is concluded. That being the case, the second half of the sentence renders as:
次は宙 を回す事業に移行する
thereafter (次) would be (は) a shift / switchover (移行する) unto (に) the undertaking / business (事業) [of] the turning (回す) [of] the Cosmos (宙 ) [by unidentified subject]
This is rendered by canonrap as "after which we will establish ourselves in the heavens."
There are some issues in the rendition of the subsequent sentence or two, but nothing as significant.
That said, 意思を回せない is lit. "incapable of (initiating) the rotation / revolution of consciousness / volition." It's interesting that "rotation / revolution" would be invoked here, given that "the unidentified subject" is also "rotating" the Star and the Cosmos.
We can surmise that "the unidentified subject" would be "whatever assumes the Seat of Primacy."
Meanwhile, the beings regarded by Merlin as "humans" are specifically something not yet liberated from the flesh, and therefore obsolete as of the Age of Will — wherein something aside from "humanity," borne of the capability to exercise volition absent the flesh, has attained the Seat of Primacy, and "rotates" the Cosmos.
In this context, "rotation / revolution" presumably refers to what the humans of the current era do to the Star / the Planet — i.e. "the assertion of the Human Order."
Of course, that's obviously all just speculation.
For more information on "liberation from the flesh," please refer to Saber Wars II.
For more information on the Seat of Primacy, please refer to the Garden of Avalon quote from Merlin at the bottom of this.
Meanwhile, on the relationship between what Merlin says above and Gilgamesh's dream in CCC:
I'm feeling a bit too lazy to provide a translation, so have Reiu's instead (with slight modifications of terminology):CCC said:
"The Recognition of Man" (人間の認識, ningen no ninshiki) is here defined as synonymous to "the World of Man" (人間の世界, ningen no sekai), and presumably via Clairvoyance, Gilgamesh witnesses in a vision that these will someday extend beyond the Star / the Earth to "the Ends of the Sky" (ソラの果て, sora no hate) across "the Sea of Darkness" (暗い大海, kurai taikai).Reiu said:
Meanwhile, Garden of Avalon gives that aside from "casting aside the flesh," the circumstances of the Age of Will seem to require "the revolution of the Cosmos" by "whatever has claimed the Seat of Primacy." Again, please refer to Saber Wars II.
Last edited:
- Location
- Florida
So, how do Grand Servants compare to True Ancestors Or the Types?
Power wise I mean.
Because Type Mercury is ridiculously strong, but sleeping.
And I know Zelretch defeated Crimson Moon.
And I know the grands are counters to the beasts.
Also, what Separates a type from a Beast of Gaia?
Power wise I mean.
Because Type Mercury is ridiculously strong, but sleeping.
And I know Zelretch defeated Crimson Moon.
And I know the grands are counters to the beasts.
Also, what Separates a type from a Beast of Gaia?
Last edited:
- Location
- Ireland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
How on Earth would we know how they compare when we've barely seen anything of Grand Servants that doesn't involve them giving up their title?
- Location
- Florida
Right, forgot.
Them giving up their title.
But didn't Orion shoot down Artemis by giving up his grand title, and Hassan forced death unto Tiamat, a primordial being by giving up their titles?
But since we don't know of them.
how would a regular servant compare to a dead apostle or true ancestor?
I know they aint got shit on TYPEs.
- Location
- Ireland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We have hundreds. Shakespeare is going to have a little bit of a different time fighting a Dead Apostle or True Ancestor than Gilgamesh would. Broad questions like that are kind of impossible to answer.
RegisNex1232
Watcher from Beyond, Master of All
- Location
- Malaysia
Servants vs other TM characters:
Now figure out what an average Noble Phantasm me- wait.
And some more for fun:
Q: In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants?
A: If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko. If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.
A: If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko. If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.
Now figure out what an average Noble Phantasm me- wait.
Q. I have a question about the Servants vs. other character answer in the 9th issue of Comptiq. About a Servant with an average Noble Phantasm, who would have one and what rank would that have been?
A: That's a serious question. The level of the Noble Phantasm would be B, and ability being represented by numbers would be called an average Noble Phantasm. Broken Phantasm, Barrier of the Wind King (C), Gae Bolg (thrown) (B), that sort.
On the other hand, those with conceptual effects, destiny interference types fall into a special category. With Gae Bolg (regular), no matter how much Arcueid might be superior to Lancer in numbers, she will be killed depending on her luck, you see.
A: That's a serious question. The level of the Noble Phantasm would be B, and ability being represented by numbers would be called an average Noble Phantasm. Broken Phantasm, Barrier of the Wind King (C), Gae Bolg (thrown) (B), that sort.
On the other hand, those with conceptual effects, destiny interference types fall into a special category. With Gae Bolg (regular), no matter how much Arcueid might be superior to Lancer in numbers, she will be killed depending on her luck, you see.
And some more for fun:
Q: About the power comparison between Arc and Servants, would the Arc being compared be the 30% one or the full one?
A: That would be the 30% Arc. It takes 7 Counter Guardians to control the Primate Murder and the Servants of the Grail War are based on these.
A: That would be the 30% Arc. It takes 7 Counter Guardians to control the Primate Murder and the Servants of the Grail War are based on these.
Q: Who'd win if the Servants and the 27 Ancestors fought each other? Also, who'd win in a fight between Bazett, a renowned powerhouse of the Association, and Ciel, top class in even the Association?
A: Depends on compatibility, but basically Servants will have the slightly higher advantage. With Saber, Lancer, and Archer classes, we ought to be able to relax and see decent fights. In particular, Saber has THAT sort of Noble Phantasms so against guys like the 27 Ancestors that overwhelm by material quantity and alienness, she'd be REALLY tough.
....Well, there are also some of those tough Ancestors that can withstand a direct hit from Excalibur-class attacks, but against those guys that just (emphasis on just; other stats don't match up) have wickedly high HP, Lancer-aniki'd be pretty tough.
A: Depends on compatibility, but basically Servants will have the slightly higher advantage. With Saber, Lancer, and Archer classes, we ought to be able to relax and see decent fights. In particular, Saber has THAT sort of Noble Phantasms so against guys like the 27 Ancestors that overwhelm by material quantity and alienness, she'd be REALLY tough.
....Well, there are also some of those tough Ancestors that can withstand a direct hit from Excalibur-class attacks, but against those guys that just (emphasis on just; other stats don't match up) have wickedly high HP, Lancer-aniki'd be pretty tough.
Q: Who would be stronger if Servants fought the 27 Ancestors? Servant's also have superhuman battle ability, but the 27 Ancestors are also superhuman monsters.... I got the impression that ORT, Primate Murder, Altrouge Brunestud, and so on were obviously stronger than Servants.
A: All I can is they're both powerful.... They're both beings that live in mystery, so the only thing that can be said is that it all depends on the situation the moment it comes done to ""having the means of killing the other guy somehow". Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose. Speaking of which, for one Primate Murder, seven Guardians would be the appropriate amount.
A: All I can is they're both powerful.... They're both beings that live in mystery, so the only thing that can be said is that it all depends on the situation the moment it comes done to ""having the means of killing the other guy somehow". Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose. Speaking of which, for one Primate Murder, seven Guardians would be the appropriate amount.
- Location
- Florida
Thanks.
I don't usually read Q and A's, so this is a big help.
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Considering a lot of info is in extra materials, you will have to get used to it.
- Location
- Florida
Yeah, I may have to go through a LOT of Q and A's, because Nasuverse mechanics are complex.
But then again, it's what is so endearing of it to me.
Got Case Files mats today.
Can't tell you circuit composition, because I don't know Japanese, but I can tell you quality and quantity.
Contains some characters from later in the series, just so you know. Spoilered for size -
Can't tell you circuit composition, because I don't know Japanese, but I can tell you quality and quantity.
Contains some characters from later in the series, just so you know. Spoilered for size -
Lord El Melloi II - Quality E, Quantity D. Joint lowest in the book.
Gray - Quality B, Quantity (B+)–EX , followed be an explanation of some sort.
Reines -A and D.
Flat - EX and EX, though I believe it's noted that it's in the sense of weird shit.
Svin - B+ and A+.
Melvin - A+ and E.
Adashino - C and B.
Dr. Heartless - A+, B+.
Luvia - B++, B+.
Touko (who I used to work out Quality and Quantity in the first place) EX, B+.
Atrum Galliasta - D+, D.
Olga Marie - EX, E-.
Caules - D, E. Inverse of Waver, joing lowest in the book.
Yvette - B, C.
Zepia - A, A.
Rulfurus Nuada-Re Eulyphis - A+, A+. This is the father of Sola-Ui, Lord of the Faculty of Eulyphis (Spiritual Evocation.)
McDonell Trambellio Elrod - A+, A++. Head of the Democratic Faction, Lord of the Faculty of General Fundamentals.
Inorai Valuetala Atroholm - A++, A, member of the Democratic Faction, Lord of the Faculty of Creation.
Gray - Quality B, Quantity (B+)–EX , followed be an explanation of some sort.
Reines -A and D.
Flat - EX and EX, though I believe it's noted that it's in the sense of weird shit.
Svin - B+ and A+.
Melvin - A+ and E.
Adashino - C and B.
Dr. Heartless - A+, B+.
Luvia - B++, B+.
Touko (who I used to work out Quality and Quantity in the first place) EX, B+.
Atrum Galliasta - D+, D.
Olga Marie - EX, E-.
Caules - D, E. Inverse of Waver, joing lowest in the book.
Yvette - B, C.
Zepia - A, A.
Rulfurus Nuada-Re Eulyphis - A+, A+. This is the father of Sola-Ui, Lord of the Faculty of Eulyphis (Spiritual Evocation.)
McDonell Trambellio Elrod - A+, A++. Head of the Democratic Faction, Lord of the Faculty of General Fundamentals.
Inorai Valuetala Atroholm - A++, A, member of the Democratic Faction, Lord of the Faculty of Creation.
Last edited:
all fictions
I hate you! (it's not against the rules!)
- Location
- Mons Regius
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Do you have birthdays for these characters?
Yeah, it has numbers so I can work them out. Doesn't have years though, if you wanted to figure out ages.
Waver - 13th October.
Gray - 17th June.
Reines - 7th March.
Flat - 1st December.
Svin - 13th September.
Melvin - 14th October.
Adashino - 23rd March.
Dr. Heartless - 13th Feb.
Luvia - 6th June.
Touko - 18th August.
Atrum - 19th October
Olga - Japanese, on a hunch, I googled it and it means "unknown". Shadowruns, or not wanting to read on Nasu's toes? You decide.
Caules - 23rd March.
Yvette - 13th May.
Zepia - 31st March.
Eulyphis - 17th September.
Trambelio - 19th May.
Valuetala - 27th January.
Gray - 17th June.
Reines - 7th March.
Flat - 1st December.
Svin - 13th September.
Melvin - 14th October.
Adashino - 23rd March.
Dr. Heartless - 13th Feb.
Luvia - 6th June.
Touko - 18th August.
Atrum - 19th October
Olga - Japanese, on a hunch, I googled it and it means "unknown". Shadowruns, or not wanting to read on Nasu's toes? You decide.
Caules - 23rd March.
Yvette - 13th May.
Zepia - 31st March.
Eulyphis - 17th September.
Trambelio - 19th May.
Valuetala - 27th January.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mountains and rivers
The tilde (wave dash) is used to express a range of things like numbers in Japanese. English uses en dashes for this, so something like (B+)–EX works best, I think. I set it in brackets so it wouldn't be confused for a minus.