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Type Moon General

Cannongerbil said:
Well, the one time we see her go up against Saber, she got disarmed without even knowing what happened, so skilled fighter or no, she is going to get absolutely destroyed in a servant fight. That said, if she had support from caster...
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I started writing that fic. Unfortunately I didn't know the visual novel as well as I needed to, to get very far.
 
Starbuckets said:
It's literally just the first episode. Aren't you being a bit too quick to judge?
Unless your last line referred to the quality of the source material itself rather than how this adaptation will turn out, ofc
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Their are two episodes. Yes Episode 00 counts I don't know why you wouldn't count that. Fate series fans are going to love this anyway especially those who liked every route. Hell I dropped Fate/Zero for awhile and that was over one exposition heavy episode (when people start literally talking in circles I'm close to done.)
 
Okay so just a disclaimer but a few months ago I sat down with a friend and forced myself to watch ever single fucking episode of the Studio-Deen version and the Unlimited Blade Works movie. It was for a bet. I won bragging rights and shame. I had to re-watch Fate/Zero to remind myself that good things could be done with this source material, that there was still hope. That maybe, just maybe, the remake wouldn't sloppily masticate bull testicles.

And Ufotable...actually didn't let me down.

And not only that but it made me do something I literally never thought could happen. It made me...actually like Shirou. Which is impressive considering that at the time of the Deen watching saying that would have been immediately followed by my friend slapping me across the face several times with an angry cat while I shouted about how I didn't mean it.

No but seriously okay, the difference is like night and day. And just panning back over the previous pages a bit I see that it's getting some flak for being too slow a start and junk but that doesn't really resonate with me. For one it's super important to establish the two, especially Shirou, as having relatively normal lives prior to shit getting flipped-turned upside down. For another they're just super rich in these cool little details that the viewer can passively absorb without "THIS IS THEIR CHARACTERIZATION DO YOU GET IT NOW DO YOU GET IT" being literally shoved down their throat.

We see Rin dealing with that Monday morning feel. We see her relationships at school. We see how much the War means to her. The exchange with her and Archer and their camaraderie sort of gradually and organically developing is amazing (also Archer's theme is super SpecOps: The Line-y and it's pure hnnnng). Similarly we see how much of a hard worker Shirou is. We see how he's constantly putting others before himself. And we also see that he's not as slick or suave as characters like Shinji who can talk circles around him. He's not stupid by any means but he's not the same breed as Kiritsugu or the other masters from Fate/Zero. Which is nice you know? It's the dedication and defiance that carry him through which speaks a lot to his character.

Which sort of brings me to my, like, third point: dat detail. No seriously holy shit those fight scenes are god tier. It's not just a bunch of colored sparkles and flash steps. You can see the flow of battle, see the strategies at work. Like in the battle between Archer and Lancer when Lancer gets his footing back, blocks, and blasts Archer across the field. Or Saber and Lancer where Lancer's spinning to recover his balance, strafing, pole vaulting to get room, and switching up grips to try and get an angle.

That's what I love most about these eps so far I think. The characters are actually acting like human beings. Which is pretty hard to do all things considered. Which is also why I don't begrudge the slow burn because, y'know, it's setting the foundation for all the shit that's coming later.
 
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It really is all the little things that make Unlimited Ufotable Works.... work. The little things that are so much harder to include in animation so it shines all the brighter when you see it. The flashes of recognition in Archer's eyes when he sees Rin and Saber for the first time before he gets his cool back. The mirroring of his and Saber's first conversations with their Masters - both decide on their first names, sans honorific, because 'the sound pleases them', yet Saber is content to defend Shirou simply by accidentally catching a glimpse of his Command Seals whereas Archer continues to needle Rin until he pushes her over the edge. And he does it accidentally too, as you can clearly see by his reactions and reading between the lines. The show conveys to you that Archer feels a little bad about making Rin waste a Command Seal and that he's lying about its effects to make her feel better without having to tell you anything.

There's the way Lancer shits himself when Archer vanishes at the beginning of the fight and immediately goes into a more defensive stance. The way that the circumstances for Rin finding Shirou stabbed are tweaked just that much to make it far more palatable - she felt bad enough about it to sit with the Mystery Student until he died anyway, but when she realized it was Shirou and realized how much it would devastate Sakura to lose him, that pushed her far enough to use the pendant. And Archer handing back his pendant when Shirou kept Rin's in episode 1 is a neat bit of foreshadowing that passes without a word. There's the little touch of Shirou slipping and falling while trying to take a corner too fast running from Lancer. Turning around after falling again when he's sure Lancer will be right behind him ready to strike and seeing nothing, only to be unexpectedly stabbed when he turns around. Keeping Lancer's desire to make it quick and easy far more consistent than the DEEN anime, in which Shirou also dodged Lancer (a superpowered lightning quick Servant) under his own power multiple times while running away.

Having Shirou see the marks on the back of Sakura's hand where Shiji has stolen Rider's Command Seals was a great addition because it served so many purposes at once. Anyone who's solely watched Fate/Zero could put it together without being told that the bruise isn't a bruise at all. And everyone else can appreciate everything else that springs from it - Shirou lets it go to avoid hounding Sakura about it first thing in the morning, he tries to slap Shinji down about it after school, he's just not equipped to deal with the guy so he winds up with nothing to show for it but another menial job. It's showing rather than telling how Shirou wants to help as many people as he can but he's just not equipped for the world.

The changes to the encounter with Lancer at his house were great too. Really went a long way to show us that this isn't Lancer being absurdly incompetent for the sake of letting Shirou live longer as in the DEEN anime, but something that makes logical sense. Lancer once more tries a sneak attack, but because his weight on the roof disturbs the bells, Shirou has enough time to dodge narrowly. And even then the force of the near-miss flings him across the room. Tracing and reinforcing the rolled-up poster intrigues Lancer, as he assumes Shirou is more than he appears, and tests his defences with a lazy and molasses-slow (for him) thrust that still gets past and cuts Shirou. The 'fight' as it were lasts for mere seconds, Shirou throwing himself out a window in desperation met only by Lancer already being there to Falcon Kick him across the fucking backyard. And the disappointment is palpable when Lancer sees Shirou fleeing into the shed all like "man I thought we had something going there."

Then everything from then on was pretty much orgasmic. The fact that Shirou's Command Seals only fully grew in once his balls did and he yelled at Lancer for being a bastard. The summoning CG of Avalon reaching out to Excalibur. The sick panning shot of Saber, mirroring the similar awesome shot of Rin summoning last episode. The fact that Saber basically makes thunderclaps when she takes off. The fact that she and Lancer can trade blows with the speed of Stands. The fact that Saber is clearly so much stronger than Lancer that Gae Bolg is bending from the force of holding Excalibur back in one shot. The little touch that Shirou recognizes Lancer's stance when he prepares to throw his spear. The boner-inducting special effects they put on Gae Bolg's throwing so you really buy that this shit is spearing the laws of cause and effect just for the sake of Fuck This Servant In Particular. The little touch when the spear is 're-thrown' - the reaction eye shot of Saber, the metallic clang - showing you that she avoided being killed not just by sheer luck, but by being just fast enough to deflect the killing blow once time reversed.

What I'm saying is that Unlimited Ufotable Works makes my dick rock-hard and if DEEN could make some half-decent action scenes on a theatrical budget with their movie of the route I'm basically tweaking like a heroin addict at the thought of Ufotable getting to some of the choice moments in the route.
 
Regarding those bells, I think it was a warning system that Kiritsigu set up for incoming enemies like familiars. Which Lancer, being what is essentially a really expensive (in terms of mana upkeep) familiar, set off.

EDIT:
I know I spelled the guy's name wrong, but can't recall how it's meant to be spelt.
 
Mizu said:
Regarding those bells, I think it was a warning system that Kiritsigu set up for incoming enemies like familiars. Which Lancer, being what is essentially a really expensive (in terms of mana upkeep) familiar, set off.

EDIT:
I know I spelled the guy's name wrong, but can't recall how it's meant to be spelt.
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its Kiritsugu, and yeah, IIRC the bells are connected to the boundry field of the house.
 
Personally, I'm waiting for Shirou vs. Gilgamesh.

I also liked the way they hinted at Archer being EMIYA, enough for long-time fans to have a fangasm, and foreshadowing it for Fate/Zero immigrants without spoiling it.

Speaking of, what're the reaction of those blogs that were linked to earlier?
 
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horngeek said:
Personally, I'm waiting for Shirou vs. Gilgamesh.

I also liked the way they hinted at Archer being EMIYA, enough for long-time fans to have a fangasm, and foreshadowing it for Fate/Zero immigrants without spoiling it.
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I do like how they do a little subtle body language crossover between the two.
 
Blog One: Shirou just wants his wish fufilled, there's a good chance of Tohsaka fighting Emiya, Lancer is responsible for the "Gas leaks", Caster is the next candidate, he hopes there's only 3 masters in town.
Blog Two: Meh. Needs more Rin. Also has apparently seen Fate/Stay DEEN.
 
Usandru said:
We've had 100 minutes of animation so far. That's almost 5 standard episodes.

I normally drop series around episode 2 or 3 if I didn't just reject them outright during episode 1.

I wouldn't show someone a movie with approximately this much happening and expect them to be impressed. I don't particularly feel as if I should be notably more charitable to a series.

I wouldn't recommend the VN either, I should note. It too takes too long to get to the point.

Additionally, I feel like I have a pretty decent understanding of how things will turn out based on past experience with Ufotable. At 100 minutes of show, I'm pretty comfortable with making general judgements.
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48 min x2. 96 min, one and a half hour, size of one movie, about four episodes, but movie and series have different standards and ways to use it effectively. With these two episodes, they managed to build a sense of normality and destroy it as well as give characterizations to both Shirou and Rin.

You might think that "It's one hour and it's not that great," but when it comes to series, I'd say it is better to count in episodes and how well those episodes are executed. I mean, I really don't see that reducing it to two standard length quick-paced episode would make it better, quite the opposite in fact. They have executed and used their resources nicely if you ask me. Also, I really appreciate them going the extra mile and make two 48 min episodes just to execute things right, when they could have cut corners. That sort of effort for one of my favorite series is something I really appreciate.
 
Feng Lengshun said:
48 min x2. 96 min, one and a half hour, size of one movie, about four episodes, but movie and series have different standards and ways to use it effectively. With these two episodes, they managed to build a sense of normality and destroy it as well as give characterizations to both Shirou and Rin.

You might think that "It's one hour and it's not that great," but when it comes to series, I'd say it is better to count in episodes and how well those episodes are executed. I mean, I really don't see that reducing it to two standard length quick-paced episode would make it better, quite the opposite in fact. They have executed and used their resources nicely if you ask me. Also, I really appreciate them going the extra mile and make two 48 min episodes just to execute things right, when they could have cut corners. That sort of effort for one of my favorite series is something I really appreciate.
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Well, I can sure as hell see that I have a minority opinion! :p

I'd like to reiterate that I'm still watching. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying I think it's nowhere near as good as I think it should be, and laying out the things I feel are weaknesses.

And fair is fair, I'm doing this based off years in the fandom where I've been steadily cooling on it until quite recently, and perhaps especially because I used to be very into it, I'm more critical than usual. I don't think I'm saying anything unsubstantiated, but in terms of raw emotional reaction there's that too.

With that in mind... no. I don't think there's anything to be gained by counting per episode rather than by runtime. Certainly the format changes and you may do things that are hard if you have only 20 minutes, but given that my criticism is basically that most worthwhile shows manage to get further along, even if we only count per episode.

And here's the thing that really gets to me. UBW has tons of material on Shirou, including many opportunities to either reiterate, expand or clarify Shirou's character. I have as yet been unable to think of anything EP1 particularly says about his character that couldn't have been integrated into future episodes which would have tightened the pacing.

Instead, what I see is basically slavish adherence to the source material. I don't want slavish adherence to the source material, I want a new angle! I want to be surprised somewhat! I want the series to twist things around and show me this same story from a different perspective.

If the end product of this series amounts to essentially a prettier version of the UBW VN route with some much needed editing, then that's hardly bad, but it's also not really going to fundamentally impress me. And that's basically what I want. I want this show to impress me.

At this point I'm just afraid it won't.
 
I think comparing the first two episodes of any series to a satisfying movie will never be a fair comparison. Still these first two episodes did seem to drag. Well it seemed to drag more in Episode 1 for me. Maybe its due to everyone around Shirou being rather boring. Even Taiga unfortunately wasn't really funny just a little wacky. Sakura was as tolerable as most characters like her in anime are (which isn't very much but thats personal taste). The only interesting parts were what happened with Kiritsugu and Shirou thinking about what it means to be a hero. It was mostly boring even more so than Episode 00.

What it did good is hint at something better in the end which is what happened in Episode 00. It tried to show what the show can grow into. Now knowing what I know about the series I feel positive about this plus its Ufotable. Of course, any newbies have every right to think this will have some good action but probably mostly boring slice of life. It wouldn't be the first time the viewer was fooled by an interesting concept and mainly got dumb slice of life harem crap that took over the interesting bits.
 
Didn't see this here yet: preview for episodes 2 and 3:

Kirei walking in circles explaining to Shirou...
Plus Seiba raincoat
Dat Bahsahkah
Ilya curtsy... All of my yes. Eagerly waiting for the next two episodes now.

On another note, picked up the first Fate artbook (Complete Material 1) at New York Comic Con this past weekend. Hefty book full of CGs from the VN, even if I did need to pay $36 for it (and that was with 10% off). Looking forward to getting a lot of use out of it.

Also, posting some Taiga gifs I lifted from the Something Awful thread:





As well as this one pic I felt was hilarious:


I really want some more food porn in this series too, if only to set up more hilarious Taiga/Shirou interactions, since those are almost always great for comedy gold.

Lastly, I dunno where most of you guys are watching this series, but I found out this morning that UTW has decided that they are going to be subbing this, and have already done the prologue episode. Checked both /a/ and their website to confirm, and then ran into their main editor on the Something Awful thread and confirmed with him as well. I loved their quality for Fate/Zero, so I have very high hopes. I'm still going to watch this on Hulu, since I paid for Hulu Plus just to watch this show, but some of their translation choices (inherited from Crunchyroll, I believe) made me look askance. UTW is probably going to be better. No links, though I assume most people who have heard of the group will know where to find their releases.
 
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I'm mainly looking forward to showing my parents Berser-car after the episode. Or just anything Carnival Phantasm.
 
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