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Type Moon General

i know i was just disagreeing with the statement about lancer and the OP is a discussion about Fate series
 
Does Sun Wu Kong even counts? He was never a human, right? Unless it's in Moon Cell grail of course, anything goes in that one.
 
basefan said:
i know i was just disagreeing with the statement about lancer and the OP is a discussion about Fate series
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Cuchulainn is best because unlike GARcher, he at least held onto his ideals, even when everything went down the drain for him. He has a kickass NP, is honorable, sacrificed himself to save the life of a girl who he'd barely met, while taking out his murderer and burning down a castle all before he died. And unlike EMIYA, was actually recognized as hero.

Ergo, he's better.
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
Cuchulainn is best because unlike GARcher, he at least held onto his ideals, even when everything went down the drain for him. He has a kickass NP, is honorable, sacrificed himself to save the life of a girl who he'd barely met, while taking out his murderer and burning down a castle all before he died. And unlike EMIYA, was actually recognized as hero.

Ergo, he's better.
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his NP is super cheap, it's a spear that always strikes the heart no matter what and is cursed. plus EMIYA has it too and unlimited others. what were lancers ideals exactly
 
basefan said:
his NP is super cheap, it's a spear that always strikes the heart no matter what and is cursed. plus EMIYA has it too and unlimited others. what were lancers ideals exactly
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UBW is even cheaper as a NP, just sayin'. And he actually acquired his through hard work, where as EMIYA just had to look at it and had an inferior version of it.

Lancer's optimistic even in the face of all the crap he had to go through in life, he values honor, he actively tries to keep his word to the point that he willingly swears magical oaths, and he's willing to sacrifice himself for what's right, as shown in UBW. What's not to like?
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
UBW is even cheaper as a NP, just sayin'. And he actually acquired his through hard work, where as EMIYA just had to look at it and had an inferior version of it.

Lancer's optimistic even in the face of all the crap he had to go through in life, he values honor, he actively tries to keep his word to the point that he willingly swears magical oaths, and he's willing to sacrifice himself for what's right, as shown in UBW. What's not to like?
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EMIYA had to work a lot harder to get UBW then Lancer to get Gae Bolg lancer did work hard for his too but Archer lost everyone he cared about to get his RM.
 
basefan said:
EMIYA had to work a lot harder to get UBW then Lancer to get Gae Bolg lancer did work hard for his too but Archer lost everyone he cared about to get his RM.
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Did EMIYA end up being trained by the teacher he loved just so that he could kill her? Did EMIYA kill his son due to a misunderstanding? Did EMIYA kill his best friend, the one who he trained with for years? And then there's the geas that Lancer put himself under.

And EMIYA didn't work ahrd to get UBW. He got it because he was twisted in the head, albeit in a good way.
 
A Nation's Virtue said:
Did EMIYA end up being trained by the teacher he loved just so that he could kill her? Did EMIYA kill his son due to a misunderstanding? Did EMIYA kill his best friend, the one who he trained with for years? And then there's the geas that Lancer put himself under.

And EMIYA didn't work ahrd to get UBW. He got it because he was twisted in the head, albeit in a good way.
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No, he did worked hard. Yes, the seed was there because he was distorted, but it took him ten years to master the basics of tracing and another ten years to master UBW. And that was during a lot of conflicts. Also, depending on what route it was, EMIYA might have killed his best friends. He might have killed Shinji, or Sakura, or Ilya, or maybe even Rin or Saber herself. We don't know which route he came from, just that he was alone in the end, and that he always choose the many people that he don't know over the few people that he don't know/actually know.
 
I just realized this is an angst fight, no he didn't, he never got a chance to have a teacher or a son even a best friend. so he couldn't kill them the only people who were close to him were the ones in the middle of stabbing him in the back
 
basefan said:
I just realized this is an angst fight, no he didn't, he never got a chance to have a teacher or a son even a best friend. so he couldn't kill them the only people who were close to him were the ones in the middle of stabbing him in the back
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He had Kiritsugu and Rin to teach him, for one thing

Well then, since we can now both agree that the two of them had shitty lives, who finally gave up, and who didn't?
 
Eh, that was his own doing really. Because at least Fate Shirou was able to reach Avalon instead of getting that ending (EMIYA didn't seem to even be close to Saber and instead he's more happy since he has a chance to be a hero now). He made his own life shitty, while Cu Chulainn, well, let's just say being Lancer is suffering by nature.

Although both are as unlucky as the others, really. If you look at their Luck stats.
 
gman391 said:
To be fair while Sakura is undeniably important in HF, there is a certain problem with her in that route.
She lacks the dynamic energy that the other heroines, indeed most of the actual heroing is handled by Ilya. Saber goes out and fights and usually does well assuming Shirou does the right thing. Rin also fights and also does the heavy lifting on figuring things out and getting stuff done. (Also that Zetta Ryouiki, Grade S indeed)

Sakura well, when she does stuff it's her super powered evil side and not actually her, so we don't get a lot of motion or agency from her. She feels passive and that's not as engaging. That said I do still like her as a character.
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Honestly for me it's just the lack of any build up. Unlike almost all the other characters she has no real impact in the other two routes, hell Tigra has more presences and impact!
 
Taiga-sensei is comic relief for a good reason.
*is hit by the Tora-Shinai*
Owww

But Sakura's presence would warp the plot of those two routes if she was in them.
 
Considering that the Grail is corrupted and will allow me to chose non-Heroes, I'll take Vlad Dracula III as either a saber or berserker if I think I can take the mana strain.
 
basefan said:
yea but his legend is based around impaling people witch sorta use spears, granted their tree's sharpned to a point
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His legend involves his method of execution. I could see a noble phantasm based around causing pikes to appear beneath people that impale them, but if you want to get technical about it, he's more suited to be a ride than a lancer since he often lead cavalry charges.

Also, yes, he would clear cut forests to make enough pikes to impale entire armies, but when you say sharpened trees you're actually correct. He never thinned the trees. He'd leave them at whatever diameter they were cut at.
 
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