Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

and we know at least the Bloody Man has significant Avatar and Influence scores, so we can't roll him like we did Attrouska.
we've identified that his Influence is very impressive as he has a very large number of shrines.
I think this is a bit of a reach. We can influence blast him just fine,we would just have to be ready for his inevitable avatar counter attacks. Influence attacks are our best shot at actually ending any such war in our favor, because otherwise they will have an easy time reforming constantly to come at us again and again. Also, just having high influence doesn't actually stop a giant wave from hitting a town, you need to actually have an applicable power. Picking up some water traits to really smash his worshippers to bits will give us a way to fight in this war and let our growing pantheon be prepared to intercept the counterstrikes.

This will take awhile however, due to needing our child to grow and to get additional water traits.

- We COULD in theory, call him out for the offense next time but the prophecy makes it tricky, if I'm reading it right, it says we'd be isolated from our pantheon, while his pantheon wants to help us but can't.

I believe you are misreading this situation. The vision where he captures us happens after he ascends. If we felt like it we could head on over there and sing and speak to his people and tell them what a pathetic oathbreaker he is and the visions would not help him stop our escape. This won't hit the fan until he ascends, and going over to mess with his people will actually tell us when he is trying, because he won't be present to encourage his peasants to resist us.

I would strongly suggest pouring heavy amounts of rain into his territories at the very least. We will see if he is active in stopping it, and if we win the influence contest we can drown people and make him look weak. If he doesn't show up to contest we will know the prophecy is coming up soon.
 
- I feel engaging him prematurely would not be wise, and we don't know enough magic to pull it off on him. Elemental attacks won't work well, we've identified that his Influence is very impressive as he has a very large number of shrines.
Oh not right now. Definitely not(sorry if I gave that impression) but head on won't work for him. And yes I meant Divine attacks as opposed to Magic attacks. To oppose us, he would require opposing or similar traits and he seems more geared toward physicL aspects as opposed to physical melee ones.
- She's described to be very good at stealth, armed with a magic silver scythe in the vision, a spirit of death and Saitev is, unfortunately, not that great a warrior spirit. He's big, that's pretty much the end of his combat prowess.
You forget that he has Owl aspect on his side. He comes in from above guided by Omen Reading to do it just right and that could disperse her.
Also, we cannot repeat the flyaway singing strategy, or there'd be a trap waiting for us next time. He's cunning enough to bypass the terms of our first confrontation by flinging hostile mortals at us the second time, while blocking off the approach of the first confrontation by poisoning the well when speaking to their other spirits.
I don't see why not. We managed to do so to Attrouska, inciting chaos in her realm. Instead we need to remind people that he is at fault for the dangers we bring to them
This will take awhile however, due to needing our child to grow and to get additional water traits.
Why water though? Let him start on the path of twisters and cutting winds. She's already heavy on air and has innate death affinity. Even as a faith god, there is plenty of mischief they could get up to.
 
I don't see why not. We managed to do so to Attrouska, inciting chaos in her realm. Instead we need to remind people that he is at fault for the dangers we bring to them
Attrouska was also literally insane.

Also:
[X] Request Heske give the spirit into your command. You will take him far from the God of the Earth's domain.
Forgot voting was a thing we did here.
 
Why water though? Let him start on the path of twisters and cutting winds. She's already heavy on air and has innate death affinity. Even as a faith god, there is plenty of mischief they could get up to.
Oh I'm sorry, I phrased that poorly. I meant for the child to grow, and Gaerig to gave more water if we really want to nuke them as hard as possible. I think this is a viable idea though, seeing as Shosho is clearly the more immediate threat and water is directly effective against him. Drowning his land in rain and whipping any oceans near him into a frenzy seems like an appropriate punishment for him breaking his oath, and that will help get ready for the likely war with the bloodied man.
 
The Stern Mother would also probably conflict with Gaerig on account of reminding her of Attrouska.

Gaerig is a mother as well, after all, and she can hardly be called "stern".
Probably, but Gaerig doesn't particularly seem to care much about how other people manage their kids, only when they start telling her what to do(which is what happened with Attrouska getting kicked until she stopped).


I think this is a bit of a reach. We can influence blast him just fine,we would just have to be ready for his inevitable avatar counter attacks. Influence attacks are our best shot at actually ending any such war in our favor, because otherwise they will have an easy time reforming constantly to come at us again and again. Also, just having high influence doesn't actually stop a giant wave from hitting a town, you need to actually have an applicable power. Picking up some water traits to really smash his worshippers to bits will give us a way to fight in this war and let our growing pantheon be prepared to intercept the counterstrikes.

This will take awhile however, due to needing our child to grow and to get additional water traits.
High Influence is a problem for Influence attacks because it means he has very large HP bars and that a major drawback when trying to harm him via elemental attacks.

Look at Gaerig's Influence HP bars:
-Saiga's Fishing Village(shrine) 4/4
-Gaerig's Fishing Village(shrine) 4/4
-Saiga's Hunting Village(shrine) 4/4
-Saitev's Hunting Village(shrine) 4/4
-Attrouska's Hill Village(shrine) 4/4
-Keshketev's Caldera Town(temple) 6/6

All this spread over an enormous area that makes it impossible to strike more than one site at a time. 26 Vehemence worth of damage if uncontested, spread out over 6 sites, each of which allows a combat encounter(before assumptions are made that we can just fly away from any counterattacks like Harzivan did, we take a look at the attack on Attrouska, we're far from unassailable if we want to attack a site outside of our Influence)

Gaerig has 3 more shrine slots and 1 more temple slot(which we won't be using in a hurry).
She can gain the below hp bars in basically 1 turn:
-Gaerig's Hunting Village 4/4
-Saitev's Home Village 4/4
-Unaligned Hunter's Village 3/3

So lets say Bloody Man has a shrine in all 8 of their villages and 1 town, giving him 8 slots of 4 vehemence each to strike at, one slot of 6 vehemence, of which, as of last information, we have maybe 3 in range of our extended range. We'd be able to do devastating damage to the nearest ones, then we'd be out of easy reach, so it devolves to a battle of mortals and monsters.

Starting an Influence slap fight without a solution to win it decisively would be a problem. Attrouska gave us a lot of grief and it's just ONE spirit. Three of them, of which at least one is very good at growth blessings, can make this a severe challenge.

I believe you are misreading this situation. The vision where he captures us happens after he ascends.
Not actualy specified, remember that visions will thrive off circumstances similar to the vision to reinforce it.

Whether the vision predicts him capturing us or not, we have established that he's the type of spirit to change tactics if one fails, that he's cunning enough to dodge Dominance.
If we felt like it we could head on over there and sing and speak to his people and tell them what a pathetic oathbreaker he is and the visions would not help him stop our escape. This won't hit the fan until he ascends, and going over to mess with his people will actually tell us when he is trying, because he won't be present to encourage his peasants to resist us.
Remember we only won the dominance contest by a fairly close margin originally. We got lucky.

Getting cocky can be deadly if we wind up confronting him. We won the first exchange by luck. The second exchange was a draw(we insulted him and flew away, but he also forced us to leave).
I would strongly suggest pouring heavy amounts of rain into his territories at the very least. We will see if he is active in stopping it, and if we win the influence contest we can drown people and make him look weak. If he doesn't show up to contest we will know the prophecy is coming up soon.
11 villages in his area that we know of. This would suck to do serious damage to him AND remember, he shares a population base with three other spirits.

It'd just validate his narrative and undermine our ability to turn them against him.

Oh not right now. Definitely not(sorry if I gave that impression) but head on won't work for him.
I figured not, but you know, with these discussions, it's best to assume the worst in case someone DOES feel we can take them right now
And yes I meant Divine attacks as opposed to Magic attacks. To oppose us, he would require opposing or similar traits and he seems more geared toward physicL aspects as opposed to physical melee ones.
Could just out growthbless our damage. Not indefinitely, but to be fair he doesn't have to deal with sudden, counterproductive shifts in strategy from a playerbase growing impatient, or exploding from an assault-induced glut.
You forget that he has Owl aspect on his side. He comes in from above guided by Omen Reading to do it just right and that could disperse her.
Needs the jump on her. She has enough sky related aspects to fly.

Kid is going to get training. And a stealth cloak. And a weapon.
I don't see why not. We managed to do so to Attrouska, inciting chaos in her realm. Instead we need to remind people that he is at fault for the dangers we bring to them
Remember, as with Attrouska, it worked once, and then the second time we came with the same strategy she was prepared and had a posse and a ritual ready to go. NEARLY nailed us if we didn't roll obscenely well.

And he's alone, not with 2 unknown spirits backing him up.
It's a safe assumption that repeating an attack form which worked earlier is not a good idea unless you have absolute dominance in the contest PoM's spirits are intelligent and can adapt within their nature.

Currently I'm thinking Rashelki might be a nice way to harass them. Ground type strong against Fire. Especially when one of the aspects grants fire resistance.
Rashelki graduates at 30 skill points or 7 skills >5. She currently has:
Melee 4
Survival 7
Awe 4
Weaving 6

Total: 21
Spending 3 Legend on skills per turn.
So Rashelki will graduate from the Creche in 3 more turns with maxed out Survival. Set her loose in the Usko lands?

Hmm...if we upgrade the shrine Rashelki is living in, she'd be able to max out Melee as well by graduation.
Why water though? Let him start on the path of twisters and cutting winds. She's already heavy on air and has innate death affinity. Even as a faith god, there is plenty of mischief they could get up to.
Low(No) Influence kid though. Going to take a while. I suspect they'd probably start with buying up their Influence, then raising T1 aspects to T3, then buying some death traits.
 
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Remember, as with Attrouska, it worked once, and then the second time we came with the same strategy she was prepared and had a posse and a ritual ready to go. NEARLY nailed us if we didn't roll obscenely well.
But that's because she had omen reading, star reading and mysticism. She had ways to check. He does not.
Remember we only won the dominance contest by a fairly close margin originally. We got lucky.

Getting cocky can be deadly if we wind up confronting him. We won the first exchange by luck. The second exchange was a draw(we insulted him and flew away, but he also forced us to leave).
Yet you yourself have said that narrative matters. We simply have to spin a story of outwitting and surviving.
Low(No) Influence kid though. Going to take a while. I suspect they'd probably start with buying up their Influence, then raising T1 aspects to T3, then buying some death traits.
Again the arguement was that he would not require additional traits to be able to do damage. We just have to take him exploring with us to help cheapen Influence buys. Also whatever new mechanic Powerofmind is going to make to help faith spirits again


ANYWAY,

I still hold hope of finding ways to talk to the other spirits, maybe some peace bribes. So far we haven't actually interacted with the Western Pantheon. We only know that they have similar traits to our own Pantheon. We haven't really done anything to them yet and they may only be aware of Attrouska and her period of madness. This time we wouldn't be facing someone so diametrically opposed to us so they might be willing to listen when we say that she has been tamed.

All this is really far ahead and not really part of the vote or kind of discussion we should be having.

I think we may need to add in a write in addition to the vote. He was polite and we would be polite back, but why should he give us in particular the kid?

I find it likely that he would say that he'll think about it and ask us to come again later. We need to come up with an arguement for him to give Bastard to us now.

Maybe something about putting him to hard labor or some sort of punishment? Or something about never having to see him again?
 
But that's because she had omen reading, star reading and mysticism. She had ways to check. He does not.
But see this current situation.
-We visited him, guided by an ally within his own pantheon. He makes sure we cannot befriend one of his pantheon to get to him again by speaking ill of us to the other spirits.
-We extracted a concession that he allow us to pass in his land unharmed. He proceeded to make sure we had a welcoming committee of spears, despite it being years since we last bothered to look in his direction. Presumably he spent a Decree slot on it.

He does not need future sight to prepare for the same trick we last used. It helps, but is not essential.

Things he had seen us do already:
-Social his pantheon
Yet you yourself have said that narrative matters. We simply have to spin a story of outwitting and surviving.
But that depends on luck, and doing it from a disadvantage.
Because from the Usko perspective what just happened is:
-The Fox happened upon a curious thing called Night. She lured his people into the darkness, and set her child to mock the people of the Usko.
-The Night came again, and now the clever Fox out-foxed the slippery Night, despite the cold rains it brought. He confounded her with words and then laughed all day.
-The Night came once more, seeking to learn more of the Fox. The Fox thought it was all in fun and took her to the Sun.

Here we established a story arc of tricksters having fun with each other. Neither really wants dominance, just to troll each other and establish who's the smarter.


-The Fox brought the Night to the Sun, claiming friendship. The Sun blazed, but could not reveal the Night, and thus the Night could slip through into the lands of the Sun.
-The Sun, wary of the Night's deception, warned his people of the danger that comes, so that they may come prepared for the threat of the dark. He warned the spirits of the Usko to beware poisoned words. So when the Night came once more, the courage of the Usko drove it back, spouting foul lies at the Sun.

You see here, we have the classic three phase narrative arc here. If the Sun wins next it'd have completed their narrative arc, since this pattern ends in "and then they won, once and for all".

WE visited their lands this time. Repeating a trick is not in our best interests.

Again the arguement was that he would not require additional traits to be able to do damage. We just have to take him exploring with us to help cheapen Influence buys. Also whatever new mechanic Powerofmind is going to make to help faith spirits again
Oh certainly, that was the intent by design that the child's traits would be sufficient for the role, only Attributes and Skills need growth.



ANYWAY,

I still hold hope of finding ways to talk to the other spirits, maybe some peace bribes. So far we haven't actually interacted with the Western Pantheon. We only know that they have similar traits to our own Pantheon. We haven't really done anything to them yet and they may only be aware of Attrouska and her period of madness. This time we wouldn't be facing someone so diametrically opposed to us so they might be willing to listen when we say that she has been tamed.
For the Usko, I think we can try a few new tricks if you want to engage in further diplomacy.

-Mortal Guise. Infiltrate their lands and learn more of their spirits. The problem is that traveling significant distances by Mortal Guise is difficult of course.

-Talk to the Fox about us building a shrine in the Fox's village(which is already in our Influence). This lets us reverse the direction, let them come to us by having the Fox invite them to his home. Especially if we do some directed artwork here for propaganda.

-Send some other spirit. They know of Attrouska, Saiga, Saitev and Gaerig. They don't know Keshketev(who is Fire and Ice, so should be able to talk to Fire and Light) or our new child(who is the Sky, appropriately neutral, though I imagine everyone would freak out at a Death god showing up). However, this means we need to persuade them to go a very long distance from home, which would be expensive, and they're relatively weak and easy to harm.

All this is really far ahead and not really part of the vote or kind of discussion we should be having.

I think we may need to add in a write in addition to the vote. He was polite and we would be polite back, but why should he give us in particular the kid?

I find it likely that he would say that he'll think about it and ask us to come again later. We need to come up with an arguement for him to give Bastard to us now.

Maybe something about putting him to hard labor or some sort of punishment? Or something about never having to see him again?
Well the vote is fairly unanimous at present...

I like your way of putting it though.
But from the sound of things he's mainly doing this to punish the mother.


[X] Request Heske give the spirit into your command. You will take him far from the God of the Earth's domain.
-[X] Explain that this will remove the child from his sight, taken to distant lands, that the Widower will be most effectively punished for her offense by being parted from her child across the sea, than being allowed to hold him within her bosom. A mother would not feel keeping him within her home so onerous as a distant parting.
 
[X] Request Heske give the spirit into your command. You will take him far from the God of the Earth's domain.
-[X] Explain that this will remove the child from his sight, taken to distant lands, that the Widower will be most effectively punished for her offense by being parted from her child across the sea, than being allowed to hold him within her bosom. A mother would not feel keeping him within her home so onerous as a distant parting.

I like this write-in.
 
[X] Request Heske give the spirit into your command. You will take him far from the God of the Earth's domain.
-[X] Explain that this will remove the child from his sight, taken to distant lands, that the Widower will be most effectively punished for her offense by being parted from her child across the sea, than being allowed to hold him within her bosom. A mother would not feel keeping him within her home so onerous as a distant parting.

And thus Gaerig was forever known as the child-kidnapping boogeyman of the Setten.
 
[X] Request Heske give the spirit into your command. You will take him far from the God of the Earth's domain.
-[X] Explain that this will remove the child from his sight, taken to distant lands, that the Widower will be most effectively punished for her offense by being parted from her child across the sea, than being allowed to hold him within her bosom. A mother would notfeel keeping him within her homeso onerous as a distant parting.

-Mortal Guise. Infiltrate their lands and learn more of their spirits. The problem is that traveling significant distances by Mortal
I don't see why, we've already discovered their villages, why would we need to travel as Mortals?
And thus Gaerig was forever known as the child-kidnapping boogeyman of the Setten.
It's funnier than that. Gaerig is constantly attended by children, so it will appear as if mortal children was not enough, she needed spirit children as well to attend her:p
 
[X] Request Heske give the spirit into your command. You will take him far from the God of the Earth's domain.
-[X] Explain that this will remove the child from his sight, taken to distant lands, that the Widower will be most effectively punished for her offense by being parted from her child across the sea, than being allowed to hold him within her bosom. A mother would notfeel keeping him within her homeso onerous as a distant parting.
 
I don't see why, we've already discovered their villages, why would we need to travel as Mortals?
Because Shoshoan is looking out for this Night Water God, if the intent is to make non hostile contact with the rest of his pantheon, you'd need some way to keep Shoshoan from dropping in "FIRE DUDES INTERRUPT" on us whenever we get near the other spirits shrines.

Sure we can try to meet them outside their villages, but that's usually a crapshoot without prior research, as spirits can spend entire years never going anywhere else.
Unless I'm mistaken about the interest in turning his pantheon against him anyways
Yeah I really don't see a point to this. I would rather try to use magic to cast a pall over as wide a region around Shosho's villages as we possibly can. He betrayed us and now it is all rain all the time.
That part should go after we make contact with the rest of his pantheon though. They're going to be very unhappy collateral damage otherwise, and it strongly reinforces that Shoshoan is right to them, which means they'd be more aggressively assisting, when our whole pantheon is out of range except for Attrouska at the fringes.
 
That part should go after we make contact with the rest of his pantheon though. They're going to be very unhappy collateral damage otherwise, and it strongly reinforces that Shoshoan is right to them, which means they'd be more aggressively assisting, when our whole pantheon is out of range except for Attrouska at the fringes.
Hmmm, tying it specifically to villages that we know Shosho is the only spirit of would probably be a better choice then. That and maybe an explore where we go around and talk shit about what a cowardly oath breaker their boss is, and if things go well with the rain bring up how he isn't even strong enough to stop us anyways, so why bother listening to him.
 
Hmmm, tying it specifically to villages that we know Shosho is the only spirit of would probably be a better choice then. That and maybe an explore where we go around and talk shit about what a cowardly oath breaker their boss is, and if things go well with the rain bring up how he isn't even strong enough to stop us anyways, so why bother listening to him.
Considering that Shosho likely does good things for all the surrounding villages, I don't think calling him names and boasting about being able to beat him is a good thing.

In fact, it is kinda the sort of thing the not!boyfriend of a girl does to impress her in saturday morning cartoons. It never works.
 
I believe that may be a contributing factor to the war that's to come. Their ENTIRE pantheon that we know of has innate reasons for domain conflict with our pantheon, and we know at least the Bloody Man has significant Avatar and Influence scores, so we can't roll him like we did Attrouska.
That's the best thing about vague prophesy and future visions in an open-ended game; half the time, the players could very easily do things that spur them on when viewed in the right light.
Attrouska was also literally insane.
I dunno, acting like Harzivan in the face of outsiders is pretty insane of Shosho'an.
I think we may need to add in a write in addition to the vote. He was polite and we would be polite back, but why should he give us in particular the kid?

I find it likely that he would say that he'll think about it and ask us to come again later. We need to come up with an arguement for him to give Bastard to us now.

Maybe something about putting him to hard labor or some sort of punishment? Or something about never having to see him again?
Just remember that the options presented are either A. Blindspot oriented choices, or B. the smartest choices Gaerig has considered off the cuff.

Generally, the choices presented are equal in terms of effectiveness, and unless you've masterfully crafted a write-in (likely also coming from an angle I am completely blindsided by), write-ins generally just shift around the odds, alter failure penalties, and such like, still being roughly as effective as the base choices.
Considering that Shosho likely does good things for all the surrounding villages, I don't think calling him names and boasting about being able to beat him is a good thing.

In fact, it is kinda the sort of thing the not!boyfriend of a girl does to impress her in saturday morning cartoons. It never works.
Tsundere Gaerig omakes when?
 
Considering that Shosho likely does good things for all the surrounding villages, I don't think calling him names and boasting about being able to beat him is a good thing.
Nonetheless, he is an oathbreaking scumbag, and Gaerig hates him for his traits. Not doing anything to punish his terrible behavior would be a mistake, and pouring rain onto his villages at least lets us put some water stuff on the board for his inevitable attack against us and shows him he can't just act like a murderous shitheel because he lost a dominance check. If any of his villages are near the water it might be worth it to just wreck the place with waves instead.
 
Yeah I really don't see a point to this. I would rather try to use magic to cast a pall over as wide a region around Shosho's villages as we possibly can. He betrayed us and now it is all rain all the time.

Because Shoshoan is looking out for this Night Water God, if the intent is to make non hostile contact with the rest of his pantheon, you'd need some way to keep Shoshoan from dropping in "FIRE DUDES INTERRUPT" on us whenever we get near the other spirits shrines.

Sure we can try to meet them outside their villages, but that's usually a crapshoot without prior research, as spirits can spend entire years never going anywhere else.
Unless I'm mistaken about the interest in turning his pantheon against him anyways
You both misunderstand. I meant why would it be necessary to travel as Mortals, not why should try. I am all for it.
 
You both misunderstand. I meant why would it be necessary to travel as Mortals, not why should try. I am all for it.
Presumably so that Shosho doesn't show up and try to interrupt us. I don't actually see him trying as a bad thing though, our last dominance check was close but we had an edge in narrative pantheon weight that definitely is growing off the addition of another local god and maybe a spirit. Also, he won't be at the edge of a giant bonfire surrounded by his worshippers if he comes out to mess with us when we talk to his subordinates.
 
Presumably so that Shosho doesn't show up and try to interrupt us. I don't actually see him trying as a bad thing though, our last dominance check was close but we had an edge in narrative pantheon weight that definitely is growing off the addition of another local god and maybe a spirit. Also, he won't be at the edge of a giant bonfire surrounded by his worshippers if he comes out to mess with us when we talk to his subordinates.
Again I am misunderstood. My question was why would we have to travel to each village in Mortal Form, not why should we sneak in to the villages.
 
Again I am misunderstood. My question was why would we have to travel to each village in Mortal Form, not why should we sneak in to the villages.
Yes, and the mortal form bit would make it easier to be in those villages without being noticed by Shosho. This is my understanding of the argument. It isn't one I would want to do, if we are going to go over there I would rather go in with a bit of shock and awe and show that we won't be cowed by oathbreakers, but if you want to get in and out without surprise confrontations then mortal form seems to provide maximum sneakiness.
 
You both misunderstand. I meant why would it be necessary to travel as Mortals, not why should try. I am all for it.
Getting close in recon and info mostly. We cannot do so otherwise without getting into a bloody conflict due to Shoshoan talking shit(and the moment we attack him the dominance compel would allow him to defend himself, which was the point I guess?), which would play into the prophecy and close off the option to turn his pantheon against him.

A mortal is...unimportant, and unless we walk right up to his shrines, he won't even know it. That's the point of a mortal form. A spirit or a god entering the Influence of another spirit can be felt. And the closer you get the easier it is to notice. If they intend to enter the shrine proper, even mortal form won't hide it. This allows us to study the rest of their pantheon and tailor approaches to opening diplomacy, finding opportunities to meet them outside their villages(where Shoshoan cannot interrupt)

Main threat is not Shoshoan, but the prophecy.
We know it can compel actions, or even force botches if it gets close enough to the prophecy. I would strongly prefer not to maneuver into a position where we have to thread the needle between the Land of Ice and the Triumph of Fire fates. So I'd strongly advise against any direct conflict with Shoshoan prior to having enough pure water traits, without Cold traits, to flatten him directly.
 
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Getting close in recon and info mostly. We cannot do so otherwise without getting into a bloody conflict due to Shoshoan talking shit(and the moment we attack him the dominance compel would allow him to defend himself, which was the point I guess?), which would play into the prophecy and close off the option to turn his pantheon against him.
As you say though, he can't attack us. He can only send mortals at us, and if he does that again we can either slaughter them or taunt him as we fly away again, continuing to establish a narrative of his failure to stop us. Neither of these things would break the compulsion and let him fight us, and he would just have to awkwardly stand there as his people died.


Main threat is not Shoshoan, but the prophecy.
We know it can compel actions, or even force botches if it gets close enough to the prophecy. I would strongly prefer not to maneuver into a position where we have to thread the needle between the Land of Ice and the Triumph of Fire fates. So I'd strongly advise against any direct conflict with Shoshoan prior to having enough pure water traits, without Cold traits, to flatten him directly.
Conflict with Shosho through rain and tides, preferably without any cold stuff, is the best way to get those water traits. Frankly I don't think he can pull off the vision events even with them trying to help him until he has ascended. The vision forcing a botch on us doesn't mean a spirit is going to manage to contain and torture a local god, not when the vision explicitly showed him not being a spirit. I will agree completely with your concerns pretty much as soon as he goes to sleep, but until then I don't think the vision can actually manifest.
 
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