Are you referring to this post? Original - Into the Amber Age | Page 1861
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Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age
- Thread starter Powerofmind
- Start date
- Original
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, sweet, then i'd do...3x guide and x2 give bounty--with that many actions i'm confident is saying 20 DE each, for another 100, even if they're still DC 40 (PoM was slightly unclear on that), that would be...34 DE, and you said you had 86 left? So you'd have another 52...hell, at that point, throw a moonlight in, to boost everything else, and put the rest into sacrifice or growth blessings?
IIRC, structures built by gods/spirits are inherently less durable/powerful/mystically significant than those built directly by mortals. We may be crippling ourselves in the long term if our pantheon builds our temple instead of having our worshippers do it.
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- Hell
Thank you
[] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exahange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Omen Reading, Mysticism, Navigation, Perform (Trickery), Fishing, Leadership, Innovation, Survival.
-[] Expend <16> DE on petitioners Astrology
[] Bless Petitioner for Growth - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you, granting them a bounty of life-giving things. Current Skills that can be blessed: Navigation, Fishing, Survival.
-[] Expend <13> DE on petitioners on Navigation
[] Control Waters*** - You have innate lordship of water and all it's forms, but you have especially strong ties to The Sea and The Sky. Costs: 10 DE
-[] Command Sea [How]
--[] x3
---[] Calm Seas
[] Direct Fish** - You direct fish to or away from your domain, having knowledge of the temperatures and currents that they prefer. Costs: 12 DE
-[] Call Fish.
--[] x2
[] Moonlight** - The moon shines bright this night, revealing things that hide in the dark. Can cause Weird, also empowers a number of relevant actions (Astrology, Perform (Trickery), Water-element Influence Actions, etc.). Costs: 25 DE
-[] In your territory
[] Guide Ships - Guide and navigate the boats in person, sending them where they need to be. Costs: 6 DE
-[] x3
[] Give Bounty - Seek fish and sea creatures to capture and give to mortals. Costs: 8 DE
-[] x2
14(Sacrifice)+13(Growth)+30(Calm Seas)+24(Call Fish)+25(Moonlight)+18(Guide)+16(Bounty)=140 DE
Those that sound right? This would get us to cap for next turn?
Even better reason to gather up materials first then. That way we can just hand them over and let them work
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@Seventeen I'm getting as many growth/nonharmful actions done as possible and removed the Fear Actions. Can I get you to consider my plan?
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
SO, with the moonlight, i'm confident giving an extra +6 to other things (moonlight is now +3/success, DC 20, and Inf actions i'm confident to assign 2 successes with our setup)
So the influence waters get +23 total...which actually doesn't do much at all for our chances of success compared to +17...just how the rolling system works.
The fishing get...+2 Fishing + 6 influence +5 night mother +6 moonlight for a total of +19...again, same successes really
Still, let's go with 2.5 average successes for the inf stuff, for a total of 5*25 = 125 DE.
The blessings will get +10 (Astrology) +6 Moonlight = +16, which makes me even more confident in giving them 1.4, and i'd almost give them 1.6x return at that point, if we had more DE in them (The more rolls you have, the more likely they'll hit the average, which makes me more confident in hitting at least an average). Still, 1.4x return for the sacrifices -> 16 * 1.4 = 22.4
The growth get +5 (navigation) + 6 moonlight, so still just x1.1 return, or 13*1.1 = 14.3
Then the avatar actions...I dont even remember what skills they use, honestly...but with the +6 moonlight, i'd be confident giving them 2 successes a piece, or 5 * 20 = 100
So total 125 + 22.4 + 14.3 + 100 = 261.7. So yeah, looks good--its obviously possible we'll roll lower, but if i did my math right, most of the time we'll roll higher
Edit: That said, ive gotten too distracted by re-reading Gunnerkrigg court and doing this math, so its bed time for me
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- Germany
Yeah, so what, it's not that I want to convince you, or even want your vote for my plan, heck I'm not even voting for my plan, since it's hardly a good plan and was only something done for Omega, it's just me commenting
more like this
"I don't like these plans."
"Even mine!*whine*"
"Yeah, cause plan sucks here*vomits*"
"Kay, however please vomit at everybody involved with the plan and not just me"
Also yeah it was not taking a shit on you, so much as telling you to give everybody his due and not only vomit all over me, for what is essentially just another version of veekie's plan, I admit an old version that has yet to be updated, since I was asleep, but yeah that was not really my point
You can include two, I'm not dying over it and we can always do it later
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Again, Thank you for your help.
The thing is I honestly wanted to study garment too and since he hasn't expressed an interest in voting for it...I'm not bothering.
@Omegahugger Hey! My Plan has your Octopus Divine Creatures! I've shifted it to have Night and Humanity instead of random traits though, would that be satisfactory?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
See, I am kinda of two minds here.
On one hand, you have by far the cuter Divine Creature. On the other hand, @sidestory makes at least an attempt at improving our Sea Pixies, which is currently my priority.
Pure growth definitely has it's merits if you're at least enlisting temple help. The Fertility Moon in place of the Harvest Moon, then go whole hog on blessings. Just make sure to pack the neutral augments from the other plans, and I'd suggest reserving at least one Water or Lure option for the Fox interaction so we can win it.
-Tech level we don't have - This is only one level up, or we would not be able to try at all.
-Massive breeding program efforts - This is a breeding program that has enormous benefits, temple or not. While the shore is not very hospitable for our Influence efforts(we're basically screwed if someone of similar power attacked a land temple or shrine in the Long Day for instance),
-Ur-Child(Seski) - Can learn any skill. Can reach rank 10 in skill. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Demihuman(Silverman) - Can learn any skill. Can reach rank 5+trait bonus in skill. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Ur-Beast - Can only learn Awe, Survival/Navigation and Melee, plus any skill which it's traits grant ranks in. Can reach rank 10 in skill. Will only learn skills it has which it can actually apply to terrifying people. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Brood(Sea Pixie) - Can only learn Awe, Survival/Navigation and Melee, plus any skill which it's traits grant ranks in.
Can reach rank 5+trait bonus in skill. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Divine Beast(Bloody Bears) - Can learn any skill, but is unlikely to learn skills outside it's domain of interests. Has an actual Avatar rating, which may cap skills.
An Aspect of Human Sea Pixie has:
-Awe
-Survival
-Fishing
-Melee
-Dance(Innate)
-Trickery(Trait)
-Leadership(Trait)
-Innovation(Trait)
-Trade(Trait)
So it would know how to improvise, cooperate and exchange favors. It would not be able to learn a Crafting or Art ability unless you breed in a crafting trait.
In short, if you want a crafting octopus, you have to get Attrouska to fuck a Sea Pixie and give it Spirit of Law, then it would know how to paint with ink.
...kind of want to try that now, but that's pretty depraved.
-Any 1 water, sea or aquatic animal related traits grants a normally land creature the ability to hold breath like aquatic mammals
-Any 2 water, sea or aquatic animal related traits grants a normally land creature waterbreathing
-Any 4 water, sea or aquatic animal related traits without counterbalancing traits grants a normally land creature waterbreathing and makes them dependent on water.
-(unconfirmed logical extension) Any 1 Air, land or land animal related traits grants a normally aquatic creature the ability to go on shore like lungfish.
-Any 2 Air, land or land animal related traits grants a normally aquatic creature the ability to breath air.
-(unconfirmed logical extension) Any 4 Air, land or land animal related traits without counterbalancing traits grants a normally aquatic creature the ability to breathe and be dependent on air.
While Amber Age is not an exact reference, Apitulku, a god with a dedicated Craft spirit, extremely populous area and large numbers of demihumans supporting, took 12 years to rebuild his temple after it was exploded from Ambrosia ignition.
Now, consider that:
-Temples come with 2 Wonders(normally 3 turn construction projects EACH)
-Every single Tier 2 enhance.(normally a 2 turn construction project each)
It is reasonable to believe that even with all the support we can rally, and running suitable buffs, we would take at least 7 years to build a temple.
As such, when I think defensibility, I'm considering the possibility that we might tick off one or more Local Gods before we can build a second temple. And that any Temple location must be secure by our affinities. Somewhere in view of sky and in reach of sea.
Not underground(just asking for Earth gods to pull the ceiling down with quakes)
Assuming spite is quite pointless.
I don't bother with spite. Whichever vote wins, I aim to make it excel.
I opposed Fear spirit, but now that we are Fear, we should play it WELL.
I opposed rushing over to combat Attrouska initially, but when it was the right time for it, I switched over to creating the best possible offense to break her ability to fight us.
I was not sure about the purpose of the Sea Pixies initially, but after they turned Silver they became a highly practical and useful supply of Silver, compared to expensively and poisonously transmuting Salt(which is much less available than you'd think, a fishing village goes through a massive amount of salt, and this area is too cold to use significant salt pans)
I have to cut off the replies here though. I got a packed schedule at work and I'm taking too much time out to answer this.
You have been eliminating the people who routinely go to the Shoals to fish, because it's the best place to fish in the whole area, so much that people will keep going there even if people regularly get killed by it.
The idea was that the Spirit of the Sea child makes the natural progression to Animal Tamer, especially aquatic animals.
Yes. Stacking the bonuses is extremely valuable, as we can see from the Crone's bonuses being enough to deter us, an entire tier and overall power level above, from following her inside over trying to simply nuke it. The free defensive influence shot is completely bullshit when stacked.
Actually, considering that the temple is a large store of ambrosia, if it blows up, I don't think you want it to be too near a settlement. But we really hadn't caused any explosions bigger than we can handle for a while(admittedly it's due to limiting the power of the explosion instead of fully cranking it).
Hey, I voted to go search for such a place repeatedly. Only to get outvoted.
-Massive investment of time and resources - This is true.
-Tech level we don't have - This is only one level up, or we would not be able to try at all.
-Massive breeding program efforts - This is a breeding program that has enormous benefits, temple or not. While the shore is not very hospitable for our Influence efforts(we're basically screwed if someone of similar power attacked a land temple or shrine in the Long Day for instance),
I have to assume you are simply ignorant of the actual rules and mechanics here.
-Ur-Child(Seski) - Can learn any skill. Can reach rank 10 in skill. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Demihuman(Silverman) - Can learn any skill. Can reach rank 5+trait bonus in skill. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Ur-Beast - Can only learn Awe, Survival/Navigation and Melee, plus any skill which it's traits grant ranks in. Can reach rank 10 in skill. Will only learn skills it has which it can actually apply to terrifying people. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Brood(Sea Pixie) - Can only learn Awe, Survival/Navigation and Melee, plus any skill which it's traits grant ranks in.
Can reach rank 5+trait bonus in skill. Effective Avatar 10 for max skills.
-Divine Beast(Bloody Bears) - Can learn any skill, but is unlikely to learn skills outside it's domain of interests. Has an actual Avatar rating, which may cap skills.
An Aspect of Human Sea Pixie has:
-Awe
-Survival
-Fishing
-Melee
-Dance(Innate)
-Trickery(Trait)
-Leadership(Trait)
-Innovation(Trait)
-Trade(Trait)
So it would know how to improvise, cooperate and exchange favors. It would not be able to learn a Crafting or Art ability unless you breed in a crafting trait.
In short, if you want a crafting octopus, you have to get Attrouska to fuck a Sea Pixie and give it Spirit of Law, then it would know how to paint with ink.
...kind of want to try that now, but that's pretty depraved.
False. I have confirmed on three separate instances with @Powerofmind that:
-Any 1 water, sea or aquatic animal related traits grants a normally land creature the ability to hold breath like aquatic mammals
-Any 2 water, sea or aquatic animal related traits grants a normally land creature waterbreathing
-Any 4 water, sea or aquatic animal related traits without counterbalancing traits grants a normally land creature waterbreathing and makes them dependent on water.
-(unconfirmed logical extension) Any 1 Air, land or land animal related traits grants a normally aquatic creature the ability to go on shore like lungfish.
-Any 2 Air, land or land animal related traits grants a normally aquatic creature the ability to breath air.
-(unconfirmed logical extension) Any 4 Air, land or land animal related traits without counterbalancing traits grants a normally aquatic creature the ability to breathe and be dependent on air.
It does make sense on a divine timescale however, we're looking at a multiple decade timespan, with additional infusion of traits along the line. It's a project that benefits long term.
False. Even the simplest Temple will take multiple years to construct.
While Amber Age is not an exact reference, Apitulku, a god with a dedicated Craft spirit, extremely populous area and large numbers of demihumans supporting, took 12 years to rebuild his temple after it was exploded from Ambrosia ignition.
Now, consider that:
-Temples come with 2 Wonders(normally 3 turn construction projects EACH)
-Every single Tier 2 enhance.(normally a 2 turn construction project each)
It is reasonable to believe that even with all the support we can rally, and running suitable buffs, we would take at least 7 years to build a temple.
As such, when I think defensibility, I'm considering the possibility that we might tick off one or more Local Gods before we can build a second temple. And that any Temple location must be secure by our affinities. Somewhere in view of sky and in reach of sea.
Not underground(just asking for Earth gods to pull the ceiling down with quakes)
3) It was a continuation of an earlier discussion you were not involved in regarding finding additional sources of silver and a productive use for broods. It was considered impractical at the time, because it would have taken 10+ years for the Sea Pixies to reach the numbers for a sustainable harvest, even if it's done by people doing the equivalent of Glory Blessings
Assuming spite is quite pointless.
I don't bother with spite. Whichever vote wins, I aim to make it excel.
I opposed Fear spirit, but now that we are Fear, we should play it WELL.
I opposed rushing over to combat Attrouska initially, but when it was the right time for it, I switched over to creating the best possible offense to break her ability to fight us.
I was not sure about the purpose of the Sea Pixies initially, but after they turned Silver they became a highly practical and useful supply of Silver, compared to expensively and poisonously transmuting Salt(which is much less available than you'd think, a fishing village goes through a massive amount of salt, and this area is too cold to use significant salt pans)
I have to cut off the replies here though. I got a packed schedule at work and I'm taking too much time out to answer this.
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???
So don't make Octopus Divine then?? uhhh, sure I guess
Since I had Sustenance set aside I could do it twice to make sure. Is that ok?
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?
Nothing else has changed, only how I gather DE. So still asking for help, studying future and making octopuses(might be just regular if Omega agrees), all that jazz. I kept the harvest cause we do need the materials though.
Yeah, it's a tough call mostly, The Fertility Moon is much more potent when used with raw blessings, but if we're doing blessings instead of terror, the DE economics makes Harvest Moon difficult to justify.
Are we sure the DE returns are enough to get to max and refill ambrosia?(too busy at work to do the math on the blessings, but we got 1.4x returns on sacrifice blessings and 1.1x on growth, so if we do Moon Moon Fertility Moon blessings, they'd need to comprise nearly a third of the DE expended(Call Fish and Give Bounty pays better, but IIRC they don't give much DE back, though they give a lot more Growth)
My plan started out as Blessing based, but was forced to go partial terror to actually afford it.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Can't Innovation be used to sorta bitbash a Crafting skill? Sort like "I need those fish but have no way of killing them without touching them. I'll need some way to stab them from afar" thus leading to it making a spear.
Although either way it wouldn't be a proper Craftopus, as any such techniques would probably be individual for each Pixie and way worse than the equivalent for actual Crafting.
Look, clearly the Crone just needs to get laid. Yes, I know Spirit of Motherhood might imply she does, but as uptight as she's being clearly she's learned Immaculate Conception.
On a more serious note, we know have another Crafting Spirit we could use to put Traits into the Pixies.
[X] Gaerig Prepares
Why yes, that would be enough to purchase my vote~<3
Then how were we causing eclipses with it in the first place?
Description diverging from mechanics I take it?
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Assuming sivantics hasn't changed plans while I got ready for bed, he's got the same Abby normal seal of approval as you do
also blessings don't always give 1.4 and 1.1 return, that's what they give with DC 60: that's just, you know, the average return, more or less, and with decent skills and/or a moonlight, and a decent number of rolls, fairly likely to happen, though I admit that's a gut feeling, not hard math, because I don't know how to calculate confidence intervals with this rolling system. Blessings are in fact subpar, we've known this for a while, they're just simple and cheap and straightforward
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There, the latest plan with all the costs updated
Just two more votes and we'll have the best monsters!<3
Please vote Sivantic! (^_^)
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We know that Innovation can be used to improvise, but it's a one-off, pretty random and more suited to solving immediate problems/using resources than anything else, we got these examples:
-Innovation + Wood = Noisemaker
-Woodworking + Wood = Flute
-Innovation + Amber = Amber on a string
-Stoneworking + Amber = Amber flute
-Innovation + Silver = Silver fragments
-Innovation + Silver = Silver plated bowl
-Innovation + Silver = Ultramarine pigment
-Innovation + Ultramarine = Blue Leather
Innovation is the macguyver skill, great for doing a hundred things with duct tape, but you really don't want to macguyver a house or car.
Keshetev: "You want me to fuck a what?"
More seriously, they're Faith spirits, no Broods for them I think.
-Saiga - Inherent Human - No broods.
-Saitev - Inherent Raven - Bird broods.
-Fox - Inherent Fox(?) - Fox broods.
-Keshetev - Inherent <Elemental thing>(?) - I don't know what he can fuck
-Attrouska - Inherent Human(?) - No broods.
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Stop making it hard to decide! >.<
But no, not enough blessings to make it worth it and we need to Harvest Materials for the best shrine possible.
@Sivantic
If you're Growth Blessing I strongly suggest switching Harvest Moon to Fertility Moon, since it gives us way more Growth Progress(which means more DE float in future turns to Harvest Moon with). Otherwise, just churn the Growth blessings all into Sacrifices. We're going to need the Ambrosia
Because:
So uh, are you summoning Fish once or twice?
If you're Growth Blessing I strongly suggest switching Harvest Moon to Fertility Moon, since it gives us way more Growth Progress(which means more DE float in future turns to Harvest Moon with). Otherwise, just churn the Growth blessings all into Sacrifices. We're going to need the Ambrosia
Came up earlier, but we don't actually gain any benefit from improving Saiga's Hunting Village at present. You might be able to use that 5 DE better elsewhere.
Not studying the Blue Leather?
Because:
If we Study it this turn we can have it cut into a coat for Seski and enchant it in time to gift her with it for her coming of age. Blue Leather Coat(Water Magic) + Seski's Water affinity should let her breathe water.
Love this btw, even if it puts my waterpeople yet another year away.
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Derp, twice.
>3< Fine! Be reasonable! See if I care!
Well since Abby Normal isn't voting for mine I don't feel the need to double future view and without the hunting village I have what I need and extra 3 DE to Incite for the Fox
You could vote for it if you like it so much
Aand that's it for the night. Plan altered. Hopefully I wake up to good news.(︶｡︶✽)
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Incorrect, I have stated repeatedly that temples will take multiple turns to build regardless of location.
Shrines do not store ambrosia. Shrine attribute allows the storing of ambrosia, which is at least partly disconnected as a game element from shrine number.
As per AN from the original, even a demihuman with a pair of wind elements or two tiers of bird aspects could fly. This is merely a logical extension in the other direction.
Yes I am! Mortal construction plays a big part in how useful a structure is to you.
Temples only start with one specialized temple wonder, they have slots for an extra wonder and all limiteds you possess. You still have to include them yourself after the fact.
Weird is specifically capable of this, and even then, the changes you enact are merely the illusion of change from the mortals' perspectives. It'd be a little ridiculous if one spirit was moving the moon all over the place, and would imply that any random moon goddess was also moving the moon all over the place.