There is no emotion... (A Jedi Order Quest)

These are all good descriptions but Nomi was alive four or five decades ago in quest and in fact Meetra Surik was trained by Vima Sunrider Nomi's daughter.
Whooops, math error on my part. Or maybe I was looking at the date for something else. Good catch.

Also, @Voikirium, I believe I will go with:

[O] Wiser Masters: Having Bastila and Brianna arguing for the revised form of the Code has forced those who argue for its traditional form to step up farther in their studies. (+10 Knowledge)
 
Last edited:
I'd also argue that if Brianna does, Atton knows far more. I often make the mistake of basing one's feat off their demeanor and it's easy to compare/mistake Echani for the honorbound types like Mandalorians, so I'll take back what I said about Brianna being an honorable fighter, since I can't find credible sources on the matter. I would still say that Atton, simply by virtue of how he was trained and his experiences, would be her better in such things.
Oh sure - Atton has more of the sneaky type of combat pretty much without a doubt - but he pays for it in his specialty with the more disciplined forms - his Echani knowledge, his saber skills, he's good with them but won't hold a candle to someone like Brianna in that regard. In many ways it's a tradeoff in one direction or the other.
 
Aha! Took a bit of searching through LPs, but here we go:


Should start at 8:06 if it doesn't.

Brianna speaks of Revan and Malak - but much more Revan, as if she has studied his/her tactics, strategies, and accounts academically, and then interprets them. Kreia even gets prickly as fuck, touchy like she rarely if ever is, so it seems safe to assume her analysis detailed enough to have hit a nerve. It's plausible she hasn't studied Revan's handiwork, but IMO doubtful in the context we have.
 
[X] Atton Rand: Having fought as a Sith-- if a Revanite Sith-- he can help teach common soldiers how to battle them, and what strategy their foot soldiers would wield. (Bonus to anti-Sith, anti-Force Order actions)

Found this quest by pure luck and I'm so happy I did. If people, rightfully, complain about the lack of good content for the Exile post-KotOR2, I think you could multiply that by a thousand times for her companions. It may just be one piece of fan-fiction in the world wide web, but I'm just glad that this quest existed at all. And that its still alive and steadily continuing is even better.

Also, glad to see Bao-Dur get the respect he deserves. :)
 
Aha! Took a bit of searching through LPs, but here we go:


Should start at 8:06 if it doesn't.

Brianna speaks of Revan and Malak - but much more Revan, as if she has studied his/her tactics, strategies, and accounts academically, and then interprets them. Kreia even gets prickly as fuck, touchy like she rarely if ever is, so it seems safe to assume her analysis detailed enough to have hit a nerve. It's plausible she hasn't studied Revan's handiwork, but IMO doubtful in the context we have.

Thanks for that! It's some insight into Brianna I hadn't really considered. I think it might be stretching it a bit to assume she studied the tactics and philosophy of Revan and her father in great depth, but it's possible at the very least.

I'll stick with Atton as I've said, since I feel like he'll have probably gained a hand for Revan's tactics having served him during the war, though on the frontlines rather than a place at his side like Meetra could.

If we're talking about who has the most experience leading, I'd outright say Bastilla takes this easily. She worked alongside Carth Onasi and Revan directly, she was in many Republic meetings discussing the ongoing war against the Sith. However, I prefer Brianna and Atton to her, given what the two have to offer.

I've been thinking of what other roles we could create in our Order, as I'm sure we'll have some level of flexibility. I'm thinking that Brianna could take up the role that Mace Windu served; a revered champion of sorts. Brianna is probably our greatest fighter through and through, and I'd like her to hold a station of significant worth regardless.
 
[x] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)
 
Yeah. I also know that one of us has to be the comic relief, otherwise the whole Order won't have a sense of humor, and then where would we be?

Atton Rand, our most critical asset.

[x] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)

Alright, @The Englanderish, you sold me. I like narrative picking better anyways, and Atton Rand feels to me like one of those people who would be wasted if promoted to officer rank. One of nature's front-line sergeant types.
 
[x] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)
 
[X] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)

Changed my vote. I decided to pick narrative over mechanics.
 
[x] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)
I'm voting this one.
 
[X] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)

Changed my vote. I decided to pick narrative over mechanics.
I mean, there's a narrative reasoning for both. Atton imo also has mechanics going for him, and incredibly useful one's at that. I think an advantage against the Sith at this stage in the game is being massively understated.
 
So! With the recent avalanche of vote changes, the vote is now three away from a tie, four from Brianna pulling ahead. So if anyone's been hesitant to change because they thought it was too far gone, I'm pleased to announce that that's no longer a concern.

I mean, there's a narrative reasoning for both. Atton imo also has mechanics going for him, and incredibly useful one's at that. I think an advantage against the Sith at this stage in the game is being massively understated.
It would be useful, yes, it's just Brianna's advantage is 'always on' so to speak, regardless of who our guardians are fighting.

If we're talking about who has the most experience leading, I'd outright say Bastilla takes this easily. She worked alongside Carth Onasi and Revan directly, she was in many Republic meetings discussing the ongoing war against the Sith. However, I prefer Brianna and Atton to her, given what the two have to offer.
To be honest, while Bastila does have Battle Meditation and some leadership... that's basically all she has going for her so far as this position goes - Taris was her first military command iirc.
 
So! With the recent avalanche of vote changes, the vote is now three away from a tie, four from Brianna pulling ahead. So if anyone's been hesitant to change because they thought it was too far gone, I'm pleased to announce that that's no longer a concern.


It would be useful, yes, it's just Brianna's advantage is 'always on' so to speak, regardless of who our guardians are fighting.


To be honest, while Bastila does have Battle Meditation and some leadership... that's basically all she has going for her so far as this position goes - Taris was her first military command iirc.
The issue I have with Brianna's is that her advantage is focused on a single sect of our entire order; I really don't want a sole bonus to them and only them. A permanent advantage to everyone against the most dangerous enemy we'll face, along with force users in general is what I consider more useful long and short term.
 
The issue I have with Brianna's is that her advantage is focused on a single sect of our entire order; I really don't want a sole bonus to them and only them. A permanent advantage to everyone against the most dangerous enemy we'll face, along with force users in general is what I consider more useful long and short term.
Her sect is kind of the wheelhouse of the battlemaster though. We'll face the Sith yes, but not every day, on every mission and field, so it'll be largely a luck based advantage. Brianna, we just know we have permanently better Guardians and Weaponmasters availale when considering who to throw at a problem - we're not relying on the dice falling the right way - it's a perpetual advantage, which is tactically and strategically more flexible.
 
Her sect is kind of the wheelhouse of the battlemaster though. We'll face the Sith yes, but not every day, on every mission and field, so it'll be largely a luck based advantage. Brianna, we just know we have permanently better Guardians and Weaponmasters availale when considering who to throw at a problem - we're not relying on the dice falling the right way - it's a perpetual advantage, which is tactically and strategically more flexible.
Guardians and WM aren't the only forces involved in battle; Sentinels and Consular's participate and we've seen in every mission that Guardians aren't the only type we have, in fact we have an overwhelming number of Sentinel's. A bonus for our Guardian's currently encompasses Brianna and Bao-Dur if I recall; eventually we'll have more but as it is, that's all. Meanwhile Sith and Dark Jedi could spring up at a moments notice. That's the short term. Long term? There's a darkside presence out there that could very well be a Sith Empire.
 
[X] Brianna: A well-trained warrior, she could pass along Echani philosophy and weapon's training to her students-- though you expect only a very particular group could make best use of it. (Bonus to Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster Experience gain)
 
[X] Atton Rand: Having fought as a Sith-- if a Revanite Sith-- he can help teach common soldiers how to battle them, and what strategy their foot soldiers would wield. (Bonus to anti-Sith, anti-Force Order actions)
 
I'm voting Atton Rand because he comes off as way more flexible. I'll go back to that assassination attempt. A Brianna student would've floundered there, because they rely on their lightsaber, which is exactly what ex-Malak mercs think we do. I feel Atton would encourage people and set the curriculum to be more flexible. Ending the tradition of Jedi not carrying blasters, for instance.

Atton Rand, our most critical asset.
That was Atton speaking? Damn, I thought it was Kador sassing Atton. He did something and then unmarked dialogue was spoken on the same line, so I just attributed it to him.
 
I feel Atton would encourage people and set the curriculum to be more flexible. Ending the tradition of Jedi not carrying blasters, for instance.
It's always a good idea to assume that there's a reason people don't do a thing in quests I'm running. Admittedly, sometimes that reason is "because holy fuck is that not a good look for the Jedi, for truly innumerable reasons" but sometimes the reason is harshly practical, as well.

(Sorry if I come across as a little cross, but I'm sort of tired of people thinking the best combat strategy for the Jedi is becoming generic tacticool fuckwits)
 
Guardians and WM aren't the only forces involved in battle; Sentinels and Consular's participate and we've seen in every mission that Guardians aren't the only type we have, in fact we have an overwhelming number of Sentinel's. A bonus for our Guardian's currently encompasses Brianna and Bao-Dur if I recall; eventually we'll have more but as it is, that's all. Meanwhile Sith and Dark Jedi could spring up at a moments notice. That's the short term. Long term? There's a darkside presence out there that could very well be a Sith Empire.
That won't always be the case though, and it's a bit doubtful the sentinel disbalance will last forever. We are also far from helpless against Sith just because we don't have Atton's bonus. Sith will be around, but hardly always, and its usefulness against our current main enemy, Czerka, is going to be limited.

Numbers-wise, there is also Juhani in the Guardian pool - and I can't recall if any padawans are going to be guardians or not.

I'm voting Atton Rand because he comes off as way more flexible. I'll go back to that assassination attempt. A Brianna student would've floundered there, because they rely on their lightsaber, which is exactly what ex-Malak mercs think we do. I feel Atton would encourage people and set the curriculum to be more flexible. Ending the tradition of Jedi not carrying blasters, for instance.
Hard to say for certain to be honest. Brianna's not as skullduggery-oriented as Atton but she knows her way around blasters and other military techniques. She's just not nearly as far down the unorthodox route as Mira or Atton. I'll also note that if the main core of the Jedi changes to be Atton style, then Jedi-killer techniques will simply start changing to be geared more towards specifically Atton's style.
 
That won't always be the case though, and it's a bit doubtful the sentinel disbalance will last forever. We are also far from helpless against Sith just because we don't have Atton's bonus. Sith will be around, but hardly always, and its usefulness against our current main enemy, Czerka, is going to be limited.
By that same vein of logic, we won't always be free of Sith presence. In fact it's highly likely we see a resurgence of them in the future. As for usefulness against Czerka, once again we have next to no guardian based Jedi for the time being.
 
By that same vein of logic, we won't always be free of Sith presence. In fact it's highly likely we see a resurgence of them in the future. As for usefulness against Czerka, once again we have next to no guardian based Jedi for the time being.
Three isn't next to no - and they'll always have the bonus. Even when the Sith were everywhere in the triumvirate days we were fighting Sith every day. It's a useful bonus, but it's hardly the end of the world if we don't have it, and it does absolutely nothing for our non-Sith enemies, of which we have many and will always have many. With Brianna we get upgrades on a tool to deploy - we get agency rather than just hoping our encounters are sufficiently Sith-stacked to get the bonus.
 
It's always a good idea to assume that there's a reason people don't do a thing in quests I'm running. Admittedly, sometimes that reason is "because holy fuck is that not a good look for the Jedi, for truly innumerable reasons" but sometimes the reason is harshly practical, as well.

(Sorry if I come across as a little cross, but I'm sort of tired of people thinking the best combat strategy for the Jedi is becoming generic tacticool fuckwits)
It has occurred to me before that Jedi carrying stunners might make sense. Non-lethal weapons fit into the ethos and are a good alternative to maiming criminals with lightsabers, they would give the Jedi a less situational ranged option than their two standbys (blaster deflection and telekinesis of whatever's handy), and stun bolts have great potential for distracting lightsaber wielders. Forcing an opponent to have to keep dodging bolts they can't deflect could be really useful in a duel.

Edit:
Also, Rule #1 of Atton's Rules for Fighting Jedi hostile Force users: SET YOUR BLASTERS TO STUN, YOU MORONS.

Relatedly, if anyone hasn't seen the clip of HK-47 talking about how to kill Jedi, it's worth a watch. It's comedy gold. "If I see one more idiot attacking a Jedi with a blaster pistol, then I'll kill them myself."
 
Last edited:
It's always a good idea to assume that there's a reason people don't do a thing in quests I'm running. Admittedly, sometimes that reason is "because holy fuck is that not a good look for the Jedi, for truly innumerable reasons" but sometimes the reason is harshly practical, as well.

(Sorry if I come across as a little cross, but I'm sort of tired of people thinking the best combat strategy for the Jedi is becoming generic tacticool fuckwits)
Eh, I get it. I don't want the Jedi to become glorified supersoldiers either. I just think it's good to have options, and that some traditions are, regardless of the practical idea that started them, blown out of proportion by time. Like, as far as I'm aware the only reason everyone didn't die in that assassination attempt is a Jedi wasn't carrying just a lightsaber. That's a big deal, at least to me, and an indicator that the Jedi might want to branch out to make it harder to lock down counter-tactics for them.

I imagine the focus on the lightsaber is out of a desire to focus on what makes the Jedi unique compared to the rest of the galaxy. That's fine, that's good sense, but it also means our tactics are pigeonholed and can be predicted.

I'll also note that if the main core of the Jedi changes to be Atton style, then Jedi-killer techniques will simply start changing to be geared more towards specifically Atton's style.
There are a few counterarguments to this, so I'm just going to say them all.

Okay, but it still gives us a short-term bonus, and the short-term is currently what's endangering us, what with us being so small and locked in conflict with Czerka. Besides, it'd take time for that doctrinal shift to properly take root across the galaxy.

Sure, but since his style is generally broader than the standard, it requires more to wholly counter it so counter-tactics likely won't be as easy to pull off as they could be.

That's fine. We can continue to shift and evolve our ideas by trying to keep from locking ourselves down with tradition. Most of us have nonstandard origins for a Jedi, this is the chance to try and shake things up.
 
Back
Top